Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Wow really? Now I know just to avoid your posts. If you think that, you don't understand any of this at all. How old are you? You sound very young.

HA! You can ignore me if you would like. You won't hurt my feelings. People who have been around here awhile know where I come from and why my Xbox predictions are pretty accurate.

If you think Xbox will include a BR drive, you will be disappointed as well. There could be some sort of a software input outside of on-line download, but it does not have to be disc based.

But the majority of the people will get game software from on-line downloads for the next generation Xbox.
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post #92 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

Wow, maybe I overreached on the "Sooooooo dominant" part, but I was not being sarcastic. These aren't the early adoption years when all the players were $300+, Blu-ray players are dirt cheap these days. How is it too expensive for the masses?

I honestly know people who didn't buy a DVD player until they were $30. Some really cheap people out there! Obviously the price has gotten better as sales are picking up. I think it has more to do with disc cost than player cost. Why people don't shop online for movies is beyond me.

Daekwan, I bought my PS3 as a Blu-Ray player that happened to play games. It is still one of the better Blu-Ray players to buy. It has almost no problem discs. I read a lot about HT stuff and even brand new models have problems with certain discs.

I LOVE Blu-Ray and I couldn't have been more pissed off as I was the other day, when the Blockbuster right down the street put up going out of business signs. I can easily tell a difference with PQ and SQ on my setup. I own about 20 Blu-Ray discs and will continue to buy more. I have probably watched over 100 discs in total.

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post #93 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:00 PM
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HA! You can ignore me if you would like. You won't hurt my feelings. People who have been around here awhile know where I come from and why my Xbox predictions are pretty accurate.

Perhaps if you changed your name to Nostradamus people would take your responses more seriously!

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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

If you think Xbox will include a BR drive, you will be disappointed as well. There could be some sort of a software input outside of on-line download, but it does not have to be disc based.

But the majority of the people will get game software from on-line downloads for the next generation Xbox.

Microsoft's current take on the XBOX's lack of a Blu-Ray drive is that Zune can stream 1080p video with 5.1 Dolby Digital sound. It hasn't been a huge hit with XBOX consumers yet - Probably because of the price-per-rental ($4.99?). While most consumers could give a crap less between 5.1 lossy audio and a lossless audio format - I do.

I personally I have a decent sized blu-ray collection (@ 80 discs) and prefer to own physical copies of movies so I can go back and review them at my leisure without being forced to pay again. I prefer physical copies of media. Maybe I don't trust technology (rightfully so!). I also appreciate the lossless audio. They will not be able to support lossless audio until technology comes along which places a fat digital pipe into everyone's home. This won't happen anytime soon. I may be the minority in regards to their customer base, but us tech geeks are a loud minority and our tech-ignorant peers look to us for what is a good deal and what isnt.

Oh yeah - Off topic - Another reason for Microsoft to make a new console is that it's only a matter of time that it's other competitors jump into this space.

Apple and Google.

Apple is amassing a huge library of software and games for their tablet/phone based hardware libraries. Apple has the 'Apple TV' which does media streaming to your TV. You can bet their next logical move will be a TV platform for their apps/games. Google is a longshot but has experimenting in this space (Google TV?) and is crazy enough to just do it.

Microsoft is already doing apps with Windows Phone 7. No doubt with their support of System-On-Chip architectures (ARM) they'll be releasing a tablet device within the near future - with "App" support. A new XBOX + Kinect is totally logical choice as a hardware platform to allow for "touch" based apps on your TV with little to no cost for Microsoft outside of developing the software platform and marketplace.


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post #94 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post


I honestly know people who didn't buy a DVD player until they were $30. Some really cheap people out there! Obviously the price has gotten better as sales are picking up. I think it has more to do with disc cost than player cost. Why people don't shop online for movies is beyond me.

Daekwan, I bought my PS3 as a Blu-Ray player that happened to play games. It is still one of the better Blu-Ray players to buy. It has almost no problem discs. I read a lot about HT stuff and even brand new models have problems with certain discs.

I LOVE Blu-Ray and I couldn't have been more pissed off as I was the other day, when the Blockbuster right down the street put up going out of business signs. I can easily tell a difference with PQ and SQ on my setup. I own about 20 Blu-Ray discs and will continue to buy more. I have probably watched over 100 discs in total.

I'm wit you man. I love blu ray. I have 3 blu ray players and the movies themselves really aren't expensive if you have a lil patience. You can get many good movies for $10-14 at best buy and especially amazon...
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post #95 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

It is still to expensive for the masses IMO.

Is it really? I thought hardware prices had dropped dramatically the last few years, same with software. Heck, on amazon I've seen day and date releases on dvd and blu where the BR was actually cheaper, or at least the same price. The premium on BR content over their DVD counterparts has dropped significantly in recent times.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #96 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:05 PM
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As much as some folks are clamoring for a digital distribution future, how likely are the retailers to support all-DD consoles when Joe Public won't be buying the software at the same retailer? Where's the incentive, I thought retailers made their money on the software side of things?

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #97 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Is it really? I thought hardware prices had dropped dramatically the last few years, same with software. Heck, on amazon I've seen day and date releases on dvd and blu where the BR was actually cheaper, or at least the same price. The premium on BR content over their DVD counterparts has dropped significantly in recent times.

A few movie people I know look at prices from BB or Target, and usually they are higher than Amazon. I pre-order a lot of movies from Amazon and the most I have paid for a movie the last year is $20. Some are as cheap as $15. If you wait a month or so you can get them even cheaper. Players are still around $100 for a name brand model. Don't know much about Vizio, Magnavox, and such, but Panasonic, Sony and Samsung seem to still be about $100 or more. I personally don't think that is a lot at all, but everyones entry fee is different.

When it comes to consoles I usually jump right in because the price doesn't usually drop for over a year and sometimes much longer. I would rather enjoy the console for a longer period of time and play games when they come out. If I waited until today I would only save $100 over the launch unit I bought 6 years ago. The HDD went from 20GB to 250GB, but that isn't reason enough to miss out on all that gaming! Watching the games get better with time is half the fun.

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post #98 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by darthjames View Post

This won't happen anytime soon. I may be the minority in regards to their customer base, but us tech geeks are a loud minority and our tech-ignorant peers look to us for what is a good deal and what isnt.

Oh Noes!!!

Nintendo is shaking in their boots...

MS is not going to pay a cent of royalties to its main competitor. It ain't happening. You can complain all you want. It is just not in MS' DNA.
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post #99 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Oh Noes!!!

Nintendo is shaking in their boots...

MS is not going to pay a cent of royalties to its main competitor. It ain't happening. You can complain all you want. It is just not in MS' DNA.

Aren't they doing it now with DVD? Sony is one of the developing companies.

Oh and also pretty sure Sony gets money for CDs too.

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post #100 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 01:01 PM
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With DVD's they had no alternatives and DVD royalties are spread among many companies. BR royalties are higher and Sony gets a bigger chunk. When there is a preferred alternative available, MS is not going to go the higher royalty route.

If you start seeing MS release their software on Blu-Rays, you may have some hope for Xbox supporting Blu-Ray. I wouldn't hold your breath as that is not going to happen, but that would be the first step.
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post #101 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post


If I waited until today I would only save $100 over the launch unit I bought 6 years ago. The HDD went from 20GB to 250GB, but that isn't reason enough to miss out on all that gaming! Watching the games get better with time is half the fun.

This console generation changed the script. Instead of dramatic price drops, the companies instead added more features and kept the price at a certain point i.e bigger HDDs, adding wifi etc etc. It's amazing that the Wii has only had a $50 drop since its release.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #102 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 01:04 PM
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I could personally care less if they use BR or not. They will either do that or some form of HD-DVD. Nintendo has used their own disc the last two generations to save from royalties. They may be exactly like CD/DVD but they aren't paying for DVD playback in the Wii.

If they have a download option, and I think they will, I will almost certainly download all of my games. I don't typically sell back games unless I hate them, and even then I have only sold 3 games this generation with a ton of them still on my shelf.

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post #103 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

This console generation changed the script. Instead of dramatic price drops, the companies instead added more features and kept the price at a certain point i.e bigger HDDs, adding wifi etc etc. It's amazing that the Wii has only had a $50 drop since its release.

The Wii hasn't been forced to do a price drop so they haven't. Nintendo must be making a fortune on every Wii sold today. The second the 360 drops in price I think they will drop theirs. If they came down $50 I think they would start selling well again. Down to $100 and people will just buy one for the hell of it. I was at the store the other day and saw a lady buying one. I thought, "really? a Wii?". Different strokes I guess.

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post #104 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

With DVD's they had no alternatives and DVD royalties are spread among many companies. BR royalties are higher and Sony gets a bigger chunk. When there is a preferred alternative available, MS is not going to go the higher royalty route.

If you start seeing MS release their software on Blu-Rays, you may have some hope for Xbox supporting Blu-Ray. I wouldn't hold your breath as that is not going to happen, but that would be the first step.

They could have developed their own disc system like Nintendo and Sega did.

MS won't be releasing any Blu-Ray software because I'm pretty sure they don't have a single item that is over 8gigs, so there's no point. Even PC game developers were slow to release games on DVDs after it was mainstream.

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The Wii hasn't been forced to do a price drop so they haven't. Nintendo must be making a fortune on every Wii sold today. The second the 360 drops in price I think they will drop theirs. If they came down $50 I think they would start selling well again. Down to $100 and people will just buy one for the hell of it. I was at the store the other day and saw a lady buying one. I thought, "really? a Wii?". Different strokes I guess.

Wii hasn't been forced because they released at the sweetspot price. $200 is where everyone starts buying a game system.


Daekwon pointed out that Apple didn't support Blu-Rays, I had no idea about that. I did some searching on Apple and MS. The most recent stuff I can find is from October, but still nothing conceding to any blu support. I was of the belief they couldn't release a set-top system without a blu-ray drive, but I think I'm switching my ideas now

He also said something about releasing games on flash drives. I'd be all for that. I still want a physical item in my hand when I buy a game.

Honestly if the game systems go to all digital download system, consumers are f'd, there's no competition in price. You'll pay full price and that's it. I won't pay full price on games. I won't sell my games to Crimestop either. Thankfully there's no signs that they are doing this yet. There's no releases on the download stores yet. Even if they did go DD, we'd better have a much bigger than 250g HD.

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post #105 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 06:09 PM
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Honestly if the game systems go to all digital download system, consumers are f'd, there's no competition in price. You'll pay full price and that's it. I won't pay full price on games. I won't sell my games to Crimestop either. Thankfully there's no signs that they are doing this yet. There's no releases on the download stores yet. Even if they did go DD, we'd better have a much bigger than 250g HD.
this.. i buy alot more games because i can just turn around and trade them back in... so for alot of games i only end up spending 30 dollars.... if i had to pay full price i wouldn't buy as many..
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post #106 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 06:17 PM
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Honestly if the game systems go to all digital download system, consumers are f'd, there's no competition in price. You'll pay full price and that's it. I won't pay full price on games. I won't sell my games to Crimestop either. Thankfully there's no signs that they are doing this yet. There's no releases on the download stores yet. Even if they did go DD, we'd better have a much bigger than 250g HD.
I'd be fine with dd, if and only if, you can buy/sell/trade the license key for the game. That would allow you to buy a license key from anywhere, rather than strictly from MSFT. It would also ensure that you can sell/trade it.

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post #107 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 06:23 PM
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this.. i buy alot more games because i can just turn around and trade them back in... so for alot of games i only end up spending 30 dollars.... if i had to pay full price i wouldn't buy as many..
I think you misinterpret what I'm saying, but still a valid point in favor of the physical media.

I don't sell my games back. I like to keep them.

If there's a move to DD only, stores like Gamestop will go out of business eventually. You won't be able to rent any games, gamefly gone too.

You guys may think it's technologically the future but it's going to screw a lot of people, including yourself.

In terms of PC games, I would support it. But, there's a different system with PCs. You'll be able to create a physical disc backup, or flash drive with the files.



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I'd be fine with dd, if and only if, you can buy/sell/trade the license key for the game. That would allow you to buy a license key from anywhere, rather than strictly from MSFT. It would also ensure that you can sell/trade it.
Highly doubt that would ever happen. Amazon was able to sell key codes to games, they had discounts, then that went away.

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post #108 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 06:40 PM
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i know what you were saying, i was just giving my perspective on why i love physical media..
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post #109 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 07:23 PM
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MS may be thinking of using cloud computing for games thus you pay but the game is on their server.

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post #110 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 07:57 PM
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MS may be thinking of using cloud computing for games thus you pay but the game is on their server.
nope.

that's still a few generations away.

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post #111 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 08:24 PM
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HA! You can ignore me if you would like. You won't hurt my feelings. People who have been around here awhile know where I come from and why my Xbox predictions are pretty accurate.
I highly doubt your predictions will be accurate.

And as a general rule, if someone on a forum basically says "and I should know, blah, blah, blah", it lends even less credibility to their statements in my eyes.

I've been here for several years as a member, and as a lurker, for several years prior to that before there was something that I just had to register in order to make a reply. And I'm unaware of your reputation as a gaming fortune teller or why your insight on some really dubious sounding opinions should somehow be allowed to stand on reputation alone or as facts? If you've been good at that, I've somehow missed it or they were back during the height of the Xbox/PS2/GCN era an entire generation ago before I started hanging out around here in 2004 or so.
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post #112 of 7006 Old 03-16-2011, 09:58 PM
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There are other places to work in Redmond, WA. Like Whole Foods, Target, Bill the Butcher, Nintendo, 7-11, Safeway.. etc

how about the yummy teriyaki there by safeway?

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post #113 of 7006 Old 03-17-2011, 05:02 AM
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With more and more internet providers planning to put data caps on service I see the odds of DD and Cloud gaming going down hill very quickly.

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post #114 of 7006 Old 03-18-2011, 11:02 AM
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how about the yummy teriyaki there by safeway?

I wish I worked there. They have awesome teriyaki beef that I would have free access to.

Yum. Sweetened Charred Cow.


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post #115 of 7006 Old 03-18-2011, 12:54 PM
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With more and more internet providers planning to put data caps on service I see the odds of DD and Cloud gaming going down hill very quickly.
not really.

i actually see the caps getting smaller, and a small price increase on the unlimited packages (like moving up to comcast business class).

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I wish I worked there. They have awesome teriyaki beef that I would have free access to.

Yum. Sweetened Charred Cow.
it's funny, I dont know which i look forward to more.... PAX 2011, or all the teriyaki joints.

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post #116 of 7006 Old 03-21-2011, 11:17 AM
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I highly doubt your predictions will be accurate.

And as a general rule, if someone on a forum basically says "and I should know, blah, blah, blah", it lends even less credibility to their statements in my eyes.

Again, couldn't care less if you believe me or not. It is just an Internet board. You can do what you wish.

People that actually know who I am, know what I am talking about so, that is good enough for me.

A new Xbox for 2012 is still not happening no matter what you believe. Ditto for BR drive.
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post #117 of 7006 Old 03-21-2011, 05:48 PM
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Gizmodo article says a would-be developer is predicting the next Xbox wont come until 2015!!

Xbox Live & PSN gamertag- Daekwan

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post #118 of 7006 Old 03-22-2011, 05:23 AM
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Actually, if that's true, that makes me feel a bit better about getting an xbox slim, I still have one of the 20gb models, not sure if it has the Falcon or Jasper chipset.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #119 of 7006 Old 03-22-2011, 07:22 AM
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Microsoft could release the next console with some sort of combo drive with Blu-Ray support for movies but perhaps using HD DVD (or something else) for games which would help with piracy and royalties. I can't see any scenario where a new Xbox does not release with Blu-Ray movie playback unless Blu-Ray has utterly failed by that point.
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post #120 of 7006 Old 03-22-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

Microsoft could release the next console with some sort of combo drive with Blu-Ray support for movies but perhaps using HD DVD (or something else) for games which would help with piracy and royalties. I can't see any scenario where a new Xbox does not release with Blu-Ray movie playback unless Blu-Ray has utterly failed by that point.

Too expensive to put in two lasers like that.

The new Xbox may not have Blu-Ray support - Apple still doesn't support Blu-Ray in their hardware and they are doing just fine. But it will have some sort of high-capacity format for games. 7 gigs or whatever the 360 supports is just not enough.
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