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post #1231 of 7006 Old 05-02-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Cougar:
IMO MS shouldn't even call the HDDVD drive by that name. I would just call it the new proprietary MS 'HD-i' drive for their Hi-Def interactivity net protocol within it. Or even their proprietary new 'HD-X' drive with the 'X' for HD-i/XBox interface. That would give it a lot of marketing topspin for games only.

Either way, I would do this as a no brainer. Price it up to 'elite' status to offset the modest (if any) price reduction in the 'core' XB slim. And milk "this gen" profits to death for 4-5 more years. And if I was MS, I could care less if any of the studios never produced movies for the huge XBox 360 user base. Because MS' format of choice for that market is DD. And there is zero need for another 'movie' disc competitor for Blu-Ray and DVD. I buy all of my new movies in Blu-Ray anyway, and love them.

I personally, would immediately buy a new XB360 HD-X/i "Elite" Slim for upcoming full HD games. Plus to backup my 2 Toshiba A35 HDDVD players and over 100 HDDVD movies (that I won't rebuy in Blu-Ray). My current XB 360 'Jasper' mobo unit would be demoted to the family room for inhouse co/op multiplayer gaming.

Edit: When I say Marketing topspin, I am playing on what someone suggested earlier in the thread, regarding multiple tiers of products. For example: XBox 360 Slim 'core', XBox 360 Slim with Kinect & hard drive, XBox 360 Slim Elite with HD-X/i, hard drive, & Kinect, and in 3 to 4 years- XBox X-Treme! Fully Loaded with Nexgen tech. That's a great product portfolio for the future IMO.

There is no way they change the DVD drive. It would cause mass confusion with the market. It also wouldn't add much help as ALL 360s would have to play these games. With the ability to store games to the HDD, I wouldn't even think of buying a new 360. Changing discs is not a big deal at all.

There is also no way we are going to get 1080p games all of the sudden. There is a very good reason why we don't have them now and it has nothing to do with storage. The 360 does not have the power to do 1080p while maintaining an acceptable frame rate. Hell most games cannot do 720p. This is why I want a new console sooner than later. The 360 and PS3 are getting tapped out. I really don't expect games to improve much further than what is currently available. Sure some developer will find a way to squeeze some more out, but that won't be across the board. I am sure there will also be some sacrifices made to get that last bit of eye candy.

We are looking at the last of the 360 modifications. The extra GB they can get out of the current DVDs is the best we can hope for. In reality it is time to move onto the next consoles.

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post #1232 of 7006 Old 05-03-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

There is no way they change the DVD drive. It would cause mass confusion with the market. It also wouldn't add much help as ALL 360s would have to play these games. With the ability to store games to the HDD, I wouldn't even think of buying a new 360. Changing discs is not a big deal at all.

There is also no way we are going to get 1080p games all of the sudden. There is a very good reason why we don't have them now and it has nothing to do with storage. The 360 does not have the power to do 1080p while maintaining an acceptable frame rate. Hell most games cannot do 720p. This is why I want a new console sooner than later. The 360 and PS3 are getting tapped out. I really don't expect games to improve much further than what is currently available. Sure some developer will find a way to squeeze some more out, but that won't be across the board. I am sure there will also be some sacrifices made to get that last bit of eye candy.

We are looking at the last of the 360 modifications. The extra GB they can get out of the current DVDs is the best we can hope for. In reality it is time to move onto the next consoles.

Yep, the little upgrades and modifications should come to an end. Releasing the same console with a bigger HDD, color, style, etc..isn't going to work for me anymore. It seems like both Sony and MS took a page out of Apple's playbook.

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post #1233 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 11:01 AM
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For all of those clamoring for a DD only NexBox. I would urge you to camp out on the PSN outage thread for a few days and read the horror stories. Because that is the world you unintentionally want to pull us all into. NO THANKS! I love the XBox retail world just the way it is thank you. The following comment from eric57 over on the PSN thread is typical and instructional for us XBox fanatics.

Eric57 said

"Hi all,

I just started using the PS3 about 3 weeks before the PSN outage so I have a couple of questions that I'm sure you folks can answer.

1. Why is there a need to log in to the PSN when using the NetFlix app? I can still use NetFlix after a couple of log in failures clear, but don't understand the functional need for the PSN hook.

2. I can't use Grand Turismo in single player mode. This game was downloaded from the PSN Store. This PS3 has 340GB and I figured that the entire game would be installed on the PS3 hard drive. I know that you can save game checkpoints to Sony servers via PSN, but I sure don't remember doing this with GT (like I configured RED DEAD).

I can't even start GT. However, I can start and use RED DEAD in single player mode. The only installation difference is that RED DEAD came on BluRay with the PS3 and not the PSN Store. As I mentioned above, it can't save checkpoints to Sony's servers, but otherwise it works.

What don't I understand about games in single player mode?

If there is a sticky post or a known post that addresses this stuff, feel free to point me there to avoid repetative clutter. I've tried keyword searches but clearly I'm not using the right terms. Thanks for any help and insights."
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post #1234 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

There is no way they change the DVD drive. It would cause mass confusion with the market. It also wouldn't add much help as ALL 360s would have to play these games. With the ability to store games to the HDD, I wouldn't even think of buying a new 360. Changing discs is not a big deal at all.

There is also no way we are going to get 1080p games all of the sudden. There is a very good reason why we don't have them now and it has nothing to do with storage. The 360 does not have the power to do 1080p while maintaining an acceptable frame rate. Hell most games cannot do 720p. This is why I want a new console sooner than later. The 360 and PS3 are getting tapped out. I really don't expect games to improve much further than what is currently available. Sure some developer will find a way to squeeze some more out, but that won't be across the board. I am sure there will also be some sacrifices made to get that last bit of eye candy.

We are looking at the last of the 360 modifications. The extra GB they can get out of the current DVDs is the best we can hope for. In reality it is time to move onto the next consoles.

Do you think that the reason they are coming out with a new console is to achieve all of these things you say the Xbox currently cannot achieve?

That is how innovation works. You stand on the shoulders of past geniuses and you take their work to the next level. That would be the Xbox hardware. Try as I might to love my PS3 and all it is capable of, I find myself coming back to my tried and true companion every single time, the Xbox360.

I will never give it up, not even when a new console comes. They can take it from me when they pry it from my cold dead hands. That said, there is no rule about a new shiny younger brother sitting next to it on the rack, is there?

The PS3 has been banished to the bedroom 32" Dynex LCD and is used primarily as a Netflix machine.

The point is, Microsoft is doing what they should be doing. Pushing their line forward in a positive direction. While Sony cleans up the mess from the latest Anon bomb, Microsoft slips in the back door with a brandy new, VERY capable sequel to the best console to hit the market.

God, I even make myself sick. I hate Microsoft on every other level other than gaming.

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post #1235 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

There is no way they change the DVD drive. It would cause mass confusion with the market. It also wouldn't add much help as ALL 360s would have to play these games. With the ability to store games to the HDD, I wouldn't even think of buying a new 360. Changing discs is not a big deal at all.

There is also no way we are going to get 1080p games all of the sudden. There is a very good reason why we don't have them now and it has nothing to do with storage. The 360 does not have the power to do 1080p while maintaining an acceptable frame rate. Hell most games cannot do 720p. This is why I want a new console sooner than later. The 360 and PS3 are getting tapped out. I really don't expect games to improve much further than what is currently available. Sure some developer will find a way to squeeze some more out, but that won't be across the board. I am sure there will also be some sacrifices made to get that last bit of eye candy.

We are looking at the last of the 360 modifications. The extra GB they can get out of the current DVDs is the best we can hope for. In reality it is time to move onto the next consoles.

All good, valid points. But I obviously disagree with a lot of them.

1. I agree that we will not likely get a HDDVD drive with the XBox 360. But I completely disagree that doing so would cause any market confusion. And even if it did, it would only be in the 'disc movie market' that MS doesn't even care about. As far as games are concerned. Current games would play on that system just like it does on DVD drives right now in the XBox 360. There would be no confusion in the gaming world. The "Elite" model XBox 360 would truly become "Elite". Only excitement about the future games IMO. Plus, as said earlier, it would move any debate about optical disc out of the Nexgen conversation. And that is a good thing IMO. You wouldn't buy it. I would jump all over it. That's just the nature of the marketplace.

2. 1080p games. We already have 1080p games for the XBox 360. They will render in 720p, 1080i or 1080p. I am not as disappointed as you with frame rate performance, or lack thereof in the XBox 360. But I agree that thresholds for framerates in the current gen systems are approaching max out states. But that to could be easily addressed in this generation XBox and PS3. Maybe even without a cost increase penalty. I'm not suggesting it. Just saying it can be done without a Nexgen console.

3. Not sure I agree with your last comment either. That decision IMO will be economy/opportunity driven. If MS can move ahead by simply modding/improving the 360 while introducing a new, more advanced, upmarket XBOX X-TREME SKU (sales keeping unit), I suspect they would jump all over that more economic launch approach. That approach would give them excellent market leverage. It would allow them to aggressively market to the high end of the gaming world. And sell to the huge mid market simultaneously, in a very profitable model. It would hedge MS's risk exposure by allowing them to launch new gaming technolgy without the high cost of relaunching the XBox Brand.

And I would'nt be surprised if Sony did the same thing with the PS3. They already have a head start on the disc side with Blu-Ray. While MS has the head start on the internet side with XBox Live. My point is the disc side could be rendered moot, in this generation just by adding a HD-DVD drive for games. And it would benefit MS without adding any confusion in the game world. That's my take on it.
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post #1236 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 01:30 PM
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How do they market hd-dvd and DVD games? They can't fit all info on the disc so either both sides would be used (hate this idea) or put both discs in the same box. Doesn't make sense to me. Just use multiple DVDs for larger games. It hasn't been a problem so far and shouldn't going forward. I don't see the benefits for MS doing this.

Rendered 1080p is not actual 1080p. Most large games are 600p or so. If you want 1080p you need new consoles as neither can do 1080p native (large games).

Fact is these consoles are tapped out. The huge improvements in games are done. MS will ride this a few more years capitalizing on profits. They will do what is best for them, not what I want. I want new hardware so I most likely will build a PC to get the best in graphics. Battlefield 3 looks unreal and the consoles won't look close to that good. It is time for a replace but the market isn't ready.

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post #1237 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Fact is these consoles are tapped out. The huge improvements in games are done.

have you been in the Skyrim thread (rhetorical)

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post #1238 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

How do they market hd-dvd and DVD games? They can't fit all info on the disc so either both sides would be used (hate this idea) or put both discs in the same box. Doesn't make sense to me. Just use multiple DVDs for larger games. It hasn't been a problem so far and shouldn't going forward. I don't see the benefits for MS doing this.

Rendered 1080p is not actual 1080p. Most large games are 600p or so. If you want 1080p you need new consoles as neither can do 1080p native (large games).

Fact is these consoles are tapped out. The huge improvements in games are done. MS will ride this a few more years capitalizing on profits. They will do what is best for them, not what I want. I want new hardware so I most likely will build a PC to get the best in graphics. Battlefield 3 looks unreal and the consoles won't look close to that good. It is time for a replace but the market isn't ready.

I have no problem with a combo option on a 30GB HDDVD disc, as you do. I actually like that combo disc feature with my SD/HDDVD & Blu-Ray movies. But like I said, One man's hamburger is always another's steak.

I am with you 100% on PC gaming. I always loved that format. And I only changed when I got the XBox 360. If there were dual lauches of all XBox Games for Windows Live, I would do exactly like you and MAX-Build my own gaming PC. My current PC is woefully outdated for gaming now. It even still has WIndows XP. But that is more than adequate for my administrative only-web surfing needs.
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post #1239 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 03:14 PM
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2. 1080p games. We already have 1080p games for the XBox 360. They will render in 720p, 1080i or 1080p. I am not as disappointed as you with frame rate performance, or lack thereof in the XBox 360. But I agree that thresholds for framerates in the current gen systems are approaching max out states. But that to could be easily addressed in this generation XBox and PS3. Maybe even without a cost increase penalty. I'm not suggesting it. Just saying it can be done without a Nexgen console.

Wow. It looks like you should be in game development and sort out this issue.
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post #1240 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 04:09 PM
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Wow. It looks like you should be in game development and sort out this issue.

It's not an issue. Where are you coming from with the comment?
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post #1241 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 04:23 PM
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I am with you 100% on PC gaming. I always loved that format. And I only changed when I got the XBox 360. If there were dual lauches of all XBox Games for Windows Live, I would do exactly like you and MAX-Build my own gaming PC. My current PC is woefully outdated for gaming now. It even still has WIndows XP. But that is more than adequate for my administrative only-web surfing needs.

Like a bunch of other folks around here, I totally agree. Prior to this gen, I would always default to PC versions of multiplat games. But it just got too expensive, and PC ports were starting to be less the "gold standard" that they used to be. Everything's starting to meet somewhere in the middle; console games are getting more robust, and PC games are getting less technology-forward (see GTA4 and Crysis 2). Not to mention that fewer and fewer multiplat games are getting released for PC.

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There is also no way we are going to get 1080p games all of the sudden. There is a very good reason why we don't have them now and it has nothing to do with storage. The 360 does not have the power to do 1080p while maintaining an acceptable frame rate. Hell most games cannot do 720p. This is why I want a new console sooner than later. The 360 and PS3 are getting tapped out. I really don't expect games to improve much further than what is currently available. Sure some developer will find a way to squeeze some more out, but that won't be across the board. I am sure there will also be some sacrifices made to get that last bit of eye candy.

What sucks is that even when the next gen arrives, while we might see more horsepower, I don't think we're going to see much improved framerates. Developers have decided that more people respond to high resolution textures, lighting, and particle work than they do to framerate. Personally, I'd love it if 1080p/60fps became the standard for next gen, but it'll never happen. Not because the technology won't be there, but because resources will be devoted to other resource-intensive effects and background programs.

Honestly, if publishers want to keep production costs down, why not just aim for 1080p/60fps? It wouldn't change much of anything cost-wise. It would just be a different optimization for the stuff they're already making. The trouble is, some hot-dogger development studio will decide to go with a lower resolution and lower framerate in order to push some crazy AI or physics system on top of some fancy streaming technology or something. Then everyone else will need to do that to compete. Pretty soon costs go up exponentially yet again, and we're stuck with ~24fps and sub-720p games yet again, but on higher horsepower machines.

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post #1242 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 05:07 PM
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DD for the win baby! (just not from Sony lol)

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post #1243 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 05:18 PM
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DD for the win baby! (just not from Sony lol)

http://m.gizmodo.com/5798679/os-x-li...-mac-app-store

...or Apple for the Fail. Depends on perspective I guess.

Not that this is anything new. Windows 7 could be downloaded as well. Because Apple does it, it's somehow noteworthy?

The really funny thing is reading through the comments. There's a lot of "as long as I can burn it to a disc or put it on USB!"

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

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post #1244 of 7006 Old 05-04-2011, 07:16 PM
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have you been in the Skyrim thread (rhetorical)

The Skyrim thread is one of my favorites to check. Reaper does such a great job updating it on a daily basis. Skyrim is worlds better than Oblivion, but compared to other recent releases it is just about what I thought it would look like. A lot of games look so good in still frames, but once in motion they look like games I have played before. I am not saying this will not be a top graphic game when released, but I may end up getting it on PC if I go through with a build for Battlefield 3. I would imagine the PC version will look much better than the 360 version.

The sad part is I may build a PC to hold me over until the next gen. I just want to get to the next level. This feeling has happened to me every console gen. Even going from the Coleco Vision and Commodore 64 to NES was a really big and welcome change. If isn't just about graphics, as gaming as a whole gets better each gen. I know I am not normal with my desire to move on, but someone has to buy a new console on launch!

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post #1245 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 10:08 AM
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...or Apple for the Fail. Depends on perspective I guess.

Not that this is anything new. Windows 7 could be downloaded as well. Because Apple does it, it's somehow noteworthy?

The really funny thing is reading through the comments. There's a lot of "as long as I can burn it to a disc or put it on USB!"

I don't know how you consider the current most successful American company a fail, but hey keep hating playa. It's only what you have been doing best in this entire thread.

Without a doubt MS did this last time around. Who said they didn't? MS also was first to bring a tablet to market.. And how did that work out? The difference here is that Apple is planning to push the DD upgrade vs the disc model. And considering the history of success with the app market and iTunes (both category leading DD storefronts). I'd bet they will be pretty successful pushing their next OS thru DD.. Much more successful than MS was with Windows.. And that's what makes it noteworthy, not because someone else 'did it first' but because someone else can do it better.

And why not want a backup copy on a USB flash drive or hdd.. That only makes sense. After all who doesnt want access to a backup copy of all their personal software/data in the event of a emergency, failure or outage (ie Sony). I have a backup of every other piece of media and data i own, to include all DD apps and an iso of Windows7.

No silly faces needed to get that point across.

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post #1246 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 10:44 AM
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For all the DD haters, it looks like EA will be leading the charge to get rid of discs:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20060005-17.html

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post #1247 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 11:41 AM
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I don't know how you consider the current most successful American company a fail, but hey keep hating playa.

I meant that if you don't like a download-only concept (which this isn't - I KNOW!), this is a fail because it pushes towards that end. Anyway, it's no secret that I can't stand Apple. That's practically public knowledge. It has nothing to do with their success either, but that's a different argument.

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It's only what you have been doing best in this entire thread.

Whahahahaha! Really? REALLY? From YOU?

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Without a doubt MS did this last time around. Who said they didn't? MS also was first to bring a tablet to market.. And how did that work out? The difference here is that Apple is planning to push the DD upgrade vs the disc model.

And they're still offering discs. So we'll see how it works out.

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And considering the history of success with the app market and iTunes (both category leading DD storefronts). I'd bet they will be pretty successful pushing their next OS thru DD.. Much more successful than MS was with Windows.. And that's what makes it noteworthy, not because someone else 'did it first' but because someone else can do it better.

An OS distribution is nothing like an app market or iTunes, so there's not guarantee of success. It might work, it might not.

How do you offer a download "better"? That makes no sense. You either market it or you don't. Microsoft didn't really publicize the download version last time and Apple is now. I'm sure next go-round Microsoft will push the download version. If they sell more downloads does that mean they did it better?

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And why not want a backup copy on a USB flash drive or hdd.. That only makes sense. After all who doesnt want access to a backup copy of all their personal software/data in the event of a emergency, failure or outage (ie Sony). I have a backup of every other piece of media and data i own, to include all DD apps and an iso of Windows7.

No silly faces needed to get that point across.

You're missing the point. I found it funny that a bunch of people in the comments were ok with a download if they could burn it to a disc. Do you not see the irony in that? See, because they want the disc-less download version, but only if they can burn it to a disc....? See what's happening there?

I like you Daekwan. I always think it's funny how convicted you are over discs, or rather lack thereof and it makes for some interesting views.

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post #1248 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

For all of those clamoring for a DD only NexBox. I would urge you to camp out on the PSN outage thread for a few days and read the horror stories. Because that is the world you unintentionally want to pull us all into. NO THANKS! I love the XBox retail world just the way it is thank you. The following comment from eric57 over on the PSN thread is typical and instructional for us XBox fanatics.

There is a problem with your theory - Microsoft has software engineers who know what the hell they are doing unlike Sony and are not idiotic enough to save passwords in cleartext or even dumber things like this (http://consumerist.com/2011/05/secur...sn-breach.html).

All Microsoft on-line properties like Xbox Live, Hotmail, Office 360, Azure, etc. get massive amount of hacking attempts every second. They are withstanding those attacks okay so far and they never had outtages like what Sony is going through.

Expecting incompetency from everyone because of one idiot, is not a valid excuse to not venture into new things.
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post #1249 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

See, because they want the disc-less download version, but only if they can burn it to a disc....? See what's happening there?

yep, you turning nothing into something

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post #1250 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 01:18 PM
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I don't know how you consider the current most successful American company a fail, but hey keep hating playa. It's only what you have been doing best in this entire thread.

Without a doubt MS did this last time around. Who said they didn't? MS also was first to bring a tablet to market.. And how did that work out? The difference here is that Apple is planning to push the DD upgrade vs the disc model. And considering the history of success with the app market and iTunes (both category leading DD storefronts). I'd bet they will be pretty successful pushing their next OS thru DD.. Much more successful than MS was with Windows.. And that's what makes it noteworthy, not because someone else 'did it first' but because someone else can do it better.

And why not want a backup copy on a USB flash drive or hdd.. That only makes sense. After all who doesnt want access to a backup copy of all their personal software/data in the event of a emergency, failure or outage (ie Sony). I have a backup of every other piece of media and data i own, to include all DD apps and an iso of Windows7.

No silly faces needed to get that point across.

most successful? what skewed statistic are you using? because you skipped over about 14 other, more successful US companies.

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post #1251 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

I meant that if you don't like a download-only concept (which this isn't - I KNOW!), this is a fail because it pushes towards that end. Anyway, it's no secret that I can't stand Apple. That's practically public knowledge. It has nothing to do with their success either, but that's a different argument.



Whahahahaha! Really? REALLY? From YOU?



And they're still offering discs. So we'll see how it works out.



An OS distribution is nothing like an app market or iTunes, so there's not guarantee of success. It might work, it might not.

How do you offer a download "better"? That makes no sense. You either market it or you don't. Microsoft didn't really publicize the download version last time and Apple is now. I'm sure next go-round Microsoft will push the download version. If they sell more downloads does that mean they did it better?



You're missing the point. I found it funny that a bunch of people in the comments were ok with a download if they could burn it to a disc. Do you not see the irony in that? See, because they want the disc-less download version, but only if they can burn it to a disc....? See what's happening there?

I like you Daekwan. I always think it's funny how convicted you are over discs, or rather lack thereof and it makes for some interesting views.

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/04/lion-...mac-app-store/

Since you didnt get "it" the first time. Maybe you will understand this:

What Apple will most likely do is charge a premium for buying physical media -- akin to what happens now with Aperture. Aperture through the Apple retail site is $199, but it's $79.99 on the Mac App Store. The price difference will probably be big enough that it will nudge a good many users toward buying Lion via the Mac App Store.

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most successful? what skewed statistic are you using? because you skipped over about 14 other, more successful US companies.

I said "currently" most successful. How convenient of you to skip that part in your rebuttal. For the first time ever they surpassed MS in profit for a quarter.

But thanks for jumping out of your cave to post that. Care to correct me on anything else? Actually before you bother googling to do just that.. it looks like "currently" is off by 1 mark. Exxon is the only company currently ahead of Apple. But please.. continue.


Apple passes Microsoft as new tech leader
For the first time in 20 years, Apple's quarterly profits were higher than Microsoft's. Analysts attribute the decline in Microsoft to sales of the new tablet computers. Apple, which netted $5.99 billion in revenue last quarter to Microsoft's $5.23 billion, is the indisputable king. Sales of the iPad, which competitors and critics initially derided as a novelty item, have led Apple to hold onto 75 percent of tablet market share. See Huffpost Tech. According to an Associated Press article, "Close to oblivion in 1997, Apple is now the world's second-most valuable company, after Exxon Mobil Corp. On April 20, it reported net income of $5.99 billion for the January-to-March period, nearly double that of a year ago. It shipped a record 18.65 million iPhones during the quarter. Its iPad tablet computers are so popular, the company couldn't make enough."

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post #1252 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by browerjs View Post
For all the DD haters, it looks like EA will be leading the charge to get rid of discs:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20060005-17.html
DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THIS THREAD? I can't ID a single poster on the thread who hates DD. There are many posters like myself who prefer physical media over it. But all of us that I have read, like DD too. We just don't want all of our eggs and options lumped in that 1 basket. Especially since it is currently so hack prone. Seems like you have missed the point of this conversation entirely.

Passion runs high here, in arguments for or against both formats. But Hatred for DD? I haven't seen it here.

Now Daekwan, on the other hand has not hidden his disdain for all optical disc media. And would love for it to disappear from the face of the planet. But all of us know, that often times he is just picking a fight for the sake of being erascible & contrarian. He brings a ton of spice to the party!

To your point on EA. Good luck with that. I hope it works for them. It won't persuade me 1 way or another if they have something I want. But what it will do is wipe out impulse buys I make with them at physical retail, where I like to shop. The market they abandon will just be filled by another player.
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post #1253 of 7006 Old 05-05-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
Now Daekwan, on the other hand has not hidden his disdain for all optical disc media. And would love for it to disappear from the face of the planet. But all of us know, that often times he is just picking a fight for the sake of being erascible & contrarian. He brings a ton of spice to the party!
I know this wasn't the "meat" of your post, but I totally agree. That's why I added what I did at the end of my post above. I've played a game or two of CoD over XBL with him. I know how he his. He likes to say and post things that he knows will start a fight. He's a smack-talker, if you will. Sure, he believes what he says, but he says it in a grating way on purpose and he probably laughs as he does it, knowing what the result will be. It's annoying, but it's at least partly in fun. That's right, Daekwan, I'm on to you!

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post #1254 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 08:00 AM
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Here are my thoughts:

This has been a 110% opinionated thread from the start. Noone here is an actual Xbox insider, or actually working on developing the next Xbox. So instead.. we all have contributed our thoughts on what we think, expect, hope, suggest, want, need, etc in the NextXbox. With all those opinions.. noone is technically right or wrong, all we can do is share our personal view of what we believe is coming next.. and its been alot of very different perspectives. While the conversation has its ups and downs, its remained pretty much on subject (to DD or not to DD is the real question) and we've seen/heard great ideas from many people.

While I joke and play around ALOT (anybody thats actually gamed with me already knows this).. What does irk me is when somebody simply replies (or otherwise say something negative) whenever another individual posts. We get it already.. your opinion is different from mine.. Do you really have to point it out every single time I post? If you have something to contribute to the conversation.. then please contribute. But just hitting the quote/reply button just to literally say "Im right, your wrong" is only going to trigger a negative reaction. Thats human nature. Theres no jokes or games behind that.

Then there are others.. who literally jump into the conversation out of nowhere just "correct" to someone else's post. Not only is the rude, but atleast be correct if you are going to be rude. Otherwise why even bother? There are 1000's of threads on AVS.. do you really need to go thru each one correcting others? And if you have decided to be such a knowledge gypsy.. atleast be factually correct yourself.. before correcting others.

I enjoy a good debate.. especially a good technical debate anyday (I could argue iOS vs Android all day long). But there comes a point where you see people purposely nitpicking. Like OMG.. this guy just posted, I have to reply back and say something.. anything. You dont HAVE to reply to every post, you dont HAVE to correct every post, and most certainly dont HAVE to agree with another person's opinion. For all we know MS could decide not to make another console.. and just cash out with the XBox360. Game over for everyone. Again.. everything posted about what each believe will be in the NextXbox is purely hypothectical at this point. And trust I take none of this to heart, I just wanted to share my opinion on what I see happenining.. from my perspective, not yours.

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post #1255 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 10:16 AM
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Some people are overly sensitive. For them I guess we should just all put "IMO" at the end of every post.

Anyway Daekwan is right, Apple is the trailblazer in tech now, they maybe did not invent the tablet market or the smartphone market but where were they before Apple came along? Right now, Apple leads and everyone follows. Similar to MS in the 1990's. MS of today is more like IBM in the 1990's.

Folks who don't understand this should look at the Android mockups before iPhone came out... and tell me how many new tablets coming out are copying the Windows Tablets MS was hocking in 2004 rather than iPad.

Oh and MS is planning to put a Windows app store front and center in Windows 8... but nope, Apple's app store has nothing to do with that.
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post #1256 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 10:24 AM
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This is one of my favorite threads on AVS. I usually read threads to learn about something so I can make an informed decision later on. I don't own a projector, but I plan to in the near future. I have been in the projector threads for a year or so now. This thread is a lot of fun because most opinions are plausible. Also most people can take a joke so the attacks on one another aren't too bad. Usually someone else will part the two arguing to get it back on point (and keep this thread going!). I can't wait for the first reports of actual specs so the "I knew it; I told you so; I am Nostradamus reincarnate; etc" can begin. Odds are someones opinion will become fact.

Oh well, back on track I guess. I have been thinking that game prices are going to go up next gen. Discs will be $70 and DD will be $60. If you want to push people into DD, that would be a smart way to do it. I was also thinking that MS will need to reinforce the DD system with a weekly show you could stream on Live. It could be used to announce new releases and also mention sales that will be going on for the upcoming week. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to have game focused shows, maybe bring G4 to Live. They need to do something to get people into the DD system and keep people informed about upcoming games in an entertaining way. If it wasn't for this forum I would not keep up with gaming as well as I do.

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post #1257 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

come fact.

Oh well, back on track I guess. I have been thinking that game prices are going to go up next gen. Discs will be $70 and DD will be $60

Out of interest, what makes you believe this?

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #1258 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 12:49 PM
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BREAKING NEWS!!!! Rumor


From IGN:

Original Story: Citing an unnamed source, UK-based video game industry magazine Develop is reporting that Microsoft has provided Electronic Arts with development hardware that will become the next Xbox as early as 2012.

According to the report, the hardware is housed in a PC shell, a common practice for early console development kits. Develop's source, described as a "senior, trusted, well-placed" person who works at neither EA nor Microsoft, told the magazine an E3 2011 reveal is likely.

We've reached out to Microsoft and EA for comment.

Update 1: An unnamed source tells Eurogamer an E3 2011 reveal for Microsoft's next Xbox is "highly unlikely," putting Develop's E3 rumor to rest for now.


Update 2: A trusted development source tells IGN, "To the best of my knowledge no one here knows what [the new Xbox] will be. Only that it will probably drop in 2013."

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post #1259 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Out of interest, what makes you believe this?

People have become OK with the $60 price point of games. We all hear how much developing for a new console is SO expensive, and a lot of games with big budgets flop, costing millions of dollars. I can just see MS creating a $10 price gap between DD and disc, and raising the price of discs to $70 would push a lot of people into DD. I know I would convert to DD for new releases.

For all the reasons stated in this thread I would think MS is going to really push DD next round. EA seems to be shifting to DD. In order for it to take off you need people to want to go DD. A $10 price difference is a very good reason. Pushing new discs to $70 is another. MS may have their studio games sell discs for $60, kind of like the start of the 360 era ($50 for the first few new releases). Once they get people into the next gen the price will go up to $70, and $60 for new titles.

Don't get me wrong I hope it is $60 and $50 for new games, but I doubt it. Either way I see a $10 price difference between discs and DD.

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post #1260 of 7006 Old 05-06-2011, 01:05 PM
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I have been thinking that game prices are going to go up next gen. Discs will be $70 and DD will be $60.

Over the past couple years, the trend has been the reverse of this. Games have been $60 for over 20 years now (the PS1/2 brought prices down briefly to $50). I just don't see this changing.

Wii games, Kinect games, and Move games are all in the $40-50 range. Downloadable titles are cheaper than that. And mobile games are even cheaper still. Prices of $60 releases often see crazy deals and price drops within a week or two of release (like Portal 2 which can be found for $35 already).

I think things like Online Pass and whatnot will turn publishers into service providers. The price of entry will be less, but they'll more than make up the difference with "service" costs and DLC.

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