Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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post #1591 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 10:41 AM
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[quote=TyrantII;20560931]

Cloud gaming, DD only, and perfect quality HD movies are a long, long way off and will not be on any console in the foreseeable future. The idea's are there, and we almost have the tech, but there is zero will to provide the necessary infrastructure upgrades needed.

I beg to differ with you. Especially on the long way off part of this. Morph OnLive Games with PS3 and you have that system right now...except for the DD only part. And Sony...or MS for that matter...could do that if they wanted to also. But like many have said here. DD "only" is suicide mission for any console company who goes down such a path. Why do it and enrage most of your users & customers, when you can satisfy everyone with DD and Disc? While MS or Sony could just buy OnLive Games and be at your "long Way Off" scenario tomorrow.
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post #1592 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 10:53 AM
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Onlive really only works (and we'll see how long) because it is for a niche market. Those that want to play pc games, but don't want to buy a new computer, and have a good internet connection. It will never have the install base that a xbox or playstation will and I think they are okay with that.

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post #1593 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
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I commented this on a sister thread in the XBox Area. But it is relevant to the conversation over here too.

"Old News. This was reported way back in 2006 when MS first began work on XBox NexGen.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148098.html

http://www.maxconsole.net/content.ph...-new-processor

http://hothardware.com/News/New-Deta...ion-Processor/

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/x...ssor---report/

It's interesting that they considered this part of their NexGen project. That could imply that XBox 360 Slim is their Nexgen. Especially if you add Kinect to the mix...and just continue to upgrade the specs on this chipset."

Like I have said over here. MS can continue to just incrementally improve the XBox 360...control its market demolition...disrupt Sony & Nintendo...and extend the life of the XB360 as long as it wants. And with very little...if any penalty from the gaming marketplace.
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post #1594 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Onlive really only works (and we'll see how long) because it is for a niche market. Those that want to play pc games, but don't want to buy a new computer, and have a good internet connection. It will never have the install base that a xbox or playstation will and I think they are okay with that.

I'm with you on that Remo. I'm just suggesting the capability to actually do it is not as far away as the Op suggested. Especially if a company is commited to doing it. A MS and Sony could easily put together strategic alliances to pull it off if motivated to do so. The technology is already here to do it. Whether on a "niche basis" or a full fledged Market ramp up...with powerful strategic partnerships, in multiple sectors. And here is more food for thought. MS is definitely converging all of these techs into NexGen with Windows Live and Mobile Apps via XB Live. I and several others suggested this earlier in the thread with the caveat...this is exactly the kind of stuff MS will want to focus on in NexGen instead of Hardware like Blu-Ray, optical and storage systems.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/x...-to-windows-8/
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post #1595 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

It's interesting that they considered this part of their NexGen project. That could imply that XBox 360 Slim is their Nexgen. Especially if you add Kinect to the mix...and just continue to upgrade the specs on this chipset."

Sorry, but this is like saying, "if I keep upgrading my Ford Escort, it will eventually turn into a jet plane and fly me to the moon."

Microsoft's goal with the 360 chipset was to miniaturize it to save money (and, as we later learned, make it more reliable). That's something they couldn't do with the Xbox 1 so they wanted to make sure it was possible with the 360.

They've accomplished that goal but that doesn't mean they plan on continuing to upgrade it as we usually understand the term - that is, make it more capable. The current 360 chipset is no more capable than the chipset that was in the 360 when it launched in 2005. It's just smaller and more efficient.

They may have plans to stick it into their next system for pain-free backwards compatibility but that is totally different.
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post #1596 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Sorry, but this is like saying, "if I keep upgrading my Ford Escort, it will eventually turn into a jet plane and fly me to the moon."

Microsoft's goal with the 360 chipset was to miniaturize it to save money (and, as we later learned, make it more reliable). That's something they couldn't do with the Xbox 1 so they wanted to make sure it was possible with the 360.

They've accomplished that goal but that doesn't mean they plan on continuing to upgrade it as we usually understand the term - that is, make it more capable. The current 360 chipset is no more capable than the chipset that was in the 360 when it launched in 2005. It's just smaller and more efficient.

They may have plans to stick it into their next system for pain-free backwards compatibility but that is totally different.

Hmmm.... what if they are planning on putting 2 (or more) of these bad boys in the nextbox, in some SLI mode... Throw in more memory, and there ya go!
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post #1597 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Sorry, but this is like saying, "if I keep upgrading my Ford Escort, it will eventually turn into a jet plane and fly me to the moon."

Microsoft's goal with the 360 chipset was to miniaturize it to save money (and, as we later learned, make it more reliable). That's something they couldn't do with the Xbox 1 so they wanted to make sure it was possible with the 360.

They've accomplished that goal but that doesn't mean they plan on continuing to upgrade it as we usually understand the term - that is, make it more capable. The current 360 chipset is no more capable than the chipset that was in the 360 when it launched in 2005. It's just smaller and more efficient.

They may have plans to stick it into their next system for pain-free backwards compatibility but that is totally different.

All good points except the analogy Numbers1. It is not analgous to upgrading a Ford escort relative to today's or tomorrow's technology. Or they wouldn't have done it with the XBox 360. That project started out as a Nexgen project with MS. It was fast tracked because of the RROD nightmare. Because of the success of the upgrade...Kinect...XBox 360S...and XBox Live, it it more analogous to upgrading features in an Escalade today. XBox 360-S and PS3 are the creme de la creme of gaming consoles...this generation. That's why Nintendo was forced to upgrade Wii tp compete better in ThisGEN.
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post #1598 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

A lot of this thread is more a geek wish list (so far from reality) that it's just downright hilarious.

That's how it was about a month ago, at this point its almost bizarre the kind of nonsense that's being posted by people who honestly believe it is somehow factual.
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post #1599 of 7006 Old 06-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rage Guy View Post

Hmmm.... what if they are planning on putting 2 (or more) of these bad boys in the nextbox, in some SLI mode... Throw in more memory, and there ya go!

A modern GPU is many times more powerful than the 360 technology in SLI mode. Not to mention it's DX9 tech while the PC side is up to DX11.

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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

XBox 360-S and PS3 are the creme de la creme of gaming consoles...this generation.

Sure are, nobody would doubt that, but you're still talking about, at their core, old 3D technology.
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post #1600 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

A modern GPU is many times more powerful than the 360 technology in SLI mode. Not to mention it's DX9 tech while the PC side is up to DX11.

Id have to agree with you #1. The technology in the 360, while still being upgraded to smaller and more efficient die sizes.. is many many moons old already. Especially in the tech world where Moore's law is more evident than ever.

That said theres no rush to the next gen. Games & Consoles are still selling well.. and realistically speaking the current consoles are continually updated with software refreshes that keep them feeling new. Go back to that launch Xbox 360 with that "blade" desktop. Listen how loud it is, how seperated everything looks and feels. Take a new Slim Xbox360 and combine it with the new desktop shown at E3 last week. They have somehow kept this generation going with incredibly significant refreshes on both the hardware & software side. Add features like Facebook, Netflix, ESPN, Kinect, etc.. have kept the 360 (as a platform) from showing its true age. It definitely doesnt look, feel or act like a console that is 6 years old.

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post #1601 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 07:55 AM
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don't know if it is valid, just posting the link because some people were curious about how advanced the wiiU will be... once again this is just rumor..
http://wii.ign.com/articles/117/1176149p1.html
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post #1602 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 10:37 AM
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Number1laing and Daekwan open up a very interesting discussion IMO. If modern GPU design is already disruptive technology...and MS just keeps incrementally improving XBox 360 in that area...What is really the point of NexGen? It may be that MS, Sony and Nintendo are really telling us that modern HD display tech is already good enough in the minds of 99.999% of consumers. And there is very little financial gain in launching an expensive, major disruptive change in a market which won't be perceived as value to 99.999% of the market. Bigger games...yes. Better games...yes. Different game Apps...yes. Full 1080p HD graphics on current HD tech...??..Yes..No..maybe so. That's the dilemma. People are very satisfied with how current games look on their HDTV's.

The XBox 360-S, PS3 AND WiiU may be with us a long while folks! Changes...Yes! Demolition...???
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post #1603 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Number1laing and Daekwan open up a very interesting discussion IMO. If modern GPU design is already disruptive technology...and MS just keeps incrementally improving XBox 360 in that area...What is really the point of NexGen? It may be that MS, Sony and Nintendo are really telling us that modern HD display tech is already good enough in the minds of 99.999% of consumers. And there is very little financial gain in launching an expensive, major disruptive change in a market which won't be perceived as value to 99.999% of the market. Bigger games...yes. Better games...yes. Different game Apps...yes. Full 1080p HD graphics on current HD tech...??..Yes..No..maybe so. That's the dilemma. People are very satisfied with how current games look on their HDTV's.

The XBox 360-S, PS3 AND WiiU may be with us a long while folks! Changes...Yes! Demolition...???

If that's the case, more and more gamers will start gaming on pc's and that's not what MS and Sony want. The casual gamer market just can't sustain a steady enough stream of income to sustain the industry as we know it. I could definitely see a shift by developers to PC in this situation too, because it would be hard to innovate and bring new experiences (especially graphical) and that's a big part of what sells new games to both gamers and casual gamers.

I've already made up my mind that most of my gaming will be done on the PC. The big exception is sports games, which just don't get released regularly on PC. There are a couple of fps games I may get on both pc and xbox due to having a lot of friends that play on xbox live and not pc.

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post #1604 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 11:52 AM
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I've actually been contemplating building a gaming/HTPC rig, for my living room. That way, I could have a fully functioning PC that is always on without the need for a laptop, better streaming capabilities than I have currently, coupled with much better visuals on my games. I already have two 360s and love the media center extender functionality but I'm hoping for something a little more appealing to the eyes as far as UI goes. I use TVersity to stream, but would like a cleaner interface.

I don't see myself buying into 4K tech anytime soon, so to me, resolution isn't the end all be all. I would just like a little more flexibility out of the console, if we're not going to see a new version any time soon.
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post #1605 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 01:29 PM
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gameboy, you still feeling good about that bet on the nexbox lauching in 2015??
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1176197p1.html
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post #1606 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 02:27 PM
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Exciting news Benjamin if it holds up. I think all of us who predicted otherwise would be ecstatic if it really happens. Hmmmm!...Wait a minute here! Does this mean they may hold back Halo 4 from Holiday 2012 until the NexBox Launch in 2013-2014. Or could it mean they announce NexBox in limited quantities for Holiday 2012 to showcase Halo 4 the right way. And fully roll it out in 2013-2014? Or is Halo 4 just launching for the 360 because NexBox will be BC? As Chamberlain said in "The Dark Crystal"....Hmmmmmmmmmm!
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post #1607 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

Because they don't want to simply repeat the sales they had with 360. They want to sell more, and to sell more, you don't leave out the consumers who play games but don't connect to the internet.

I would say the household with a 360 that does not have broadband is pretty tiny.

It is SPECIFICALLY they want to sell more that they will forego a disc drive. If 80% of the customers are going to get their games through DD, it makes no sense to have 100% pay the tax on the disc drive. Not having it will make the design simpler and cheaper. This will make the NextBox cheaper and that will directly lead to more sales.

You can sell game through a USB stick. All you need is a USB port which the console will have anyway. This is the cheapest and most sensible approach.
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post #1608 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 03:23 PM
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What? A new XBox? I thought they were just going to keep the old one on life support with a new SKU and a Betamax drive.
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post #1609 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 03:23 PM
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Ben-Ben, even if that was true (and we have had a LOT of false reporting on this topic), I would still say 2013 is not likely. 2014 is a likely timeline as it will be at least a year just to get all the developers on board.

Why do you get to straddle 2013 AND 2014 while I only get 2015? I have always said 2014 is a possibility. 2015 is still likely.
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post #1610 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 03:53 PM
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What is the actual advantage of a Next GEN. system beyond graphics?

Sure it can process more...but more what? It all comes down to software and developers.

I can honestly say that only a few current gen. titles have been as good as the many last gen. game experiences.

After all this investment in Kinect and the new disc storage modifications, why would Microsoft abondon the 360 any time soon?
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post #1611 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

What is the actual advantage of a Next GEN. system beyond graphics?

On paper? Better sound, better AI, larger map designs, better particle effects, possibly fully destructible environments, and many others I can't think of right now.

In practice, who knows how much they'll actually be able to harness and what they'll choose to do with the power that's there.

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post #1612 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Ben-Ben, even if that was true (and we have had a LOT of false reporting on this topic), I would still say 2013 is not likely. 2014 is a likely timeline as it will be at least a year just to get all the developers on board.

Why do you get to straddle 2013 AND 2014 while I only get 2015? I have always said 2014 is a possibility. 2015 is still likely.

If that article is to be believed, at least SOME developers are already "on board". You've gotta figure that if Crytek has the kits to start building for a new box then other developers have them as well. Again, that's assuming the article is correct at all.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

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post #1613 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

don't know if it is valid, just posting the link because some people were curious about how advanced the wiiU will be... once again this is just rumor..
http://wii.ign.com/articles/117/1176149p1.html

Looks like you, MByrnes and the 2013 prophets get the "Ezekiel" award on the timing. I hope this rumor holds up. They have been working on this Console since 2006. The following article from MSNBC expands on the story a bit.

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...xbox-next-year

Maybe the Nintendo announcement stirred MS up more than we all thought. If so...Good!
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post #1614 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Ben-Ben, even if that was true (and we have had a LOT of false reporting on this topic), I would still say 2013 is not likely. 2014 is a likely timeline as it will be at least a year just to get all the developers on board.

Why do you get to straddle 2013 AND 2014 while I only get 2015? I have always said 2014 is a possibility. 2015 is still likely.

fair enough, lets put the over/under at 2014.... meaning 2013 i win, 2015 you win, 2014 is a push!!
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post #1615 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

If that's the case, more and more gamers will start gaming on pc's and that's not what MS and Sony want. The casual gamer market just can't sustain a steady enough stream of income to sustain the industry as we know it.

*psst* Sony, MS, and Nintendo don't care. They're in the business of selling consoles and first-party software. Nintendo proved (and MS verified) that there's much more money to be made in selling to the casual crowd than to the traditional gamer crowd. I think barrelbelly's right in that most of the new consumers in the gaming industry simply don't care about anything beyond the basics. It's all about horizontal innovations (new UI and new partnerships with non-gaming media companies), rather than vertical ones (new, faster, edgier, more expensive tech).

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post #1616 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 07:59 PM
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I'd be willing to bet the casual market that Nintendo found for the gaming industry won't sustain itself as long as the "hardcore" gamer crowd.


As far as that crytek quote, I'm pretty sure they said they had kits before E3 was even here. In fact I think there was a link to someone saying that in this very thread.

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post #1617 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 08:18 PM
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Timesplitters 4? Sweet. Hopefully we get flaming monkeys.
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post #1618 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I'd be willing to bet the casual market that Nintendo found for the gaming industry won't sustain itself as long as the "hardcore" gamer crowd.

Five years in, and the casual "fad" is stronger than ever. One need look no further than the App Store. It's pretty safe to say that gaming has finally arrived in the mainstream.

The question is, will casuals stick to consoles or will they migrate to phones and tablets? MS is gung-ho about turning the Xbox into a media center, so MS will certainly fight tooth and nail to win those casuals away from Nintendo; Kinect has done a good job of doing exactly that. And at this point, MS isn't fighting too hard for the mobile crowd (yet), so they seem content for the time being to leave that market to Apple. The big coup in the console space will be whichever console finally incorporates the major television content providers (i.e. networks and/or cable companies).

Anyhow, in 2-3 years time, "hardcore games" will just be one genre among many.

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post #1619 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 09:31 PM
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Don't lump tablet games and phone games in the same market. Someone buying a phone isn't buying it to play games, same thing with a tablet. Those are devices that can also play games. When you buy a Wii or an Xbox, it's with the intent to play games.

When I say the casual crowd won't keep going I'm talking about people buying into new game hardware. It may go another cycle or so but I don't expect it to go beyond that.

We've only really had the Wii. The Kinect and the Move are still in their infancy. This is the very start of the casual fad for them.


I'll actually be surprised if the next systems sell as well as any of these.

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post #1620 of 7006 Old 06-14-2011, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I'd be willing to bet the casual market that Nintendo found for the gaming industry won't sustain itself as long as the "hardcore" gamer crowd.


As far as that crytek quote, I'm pretty sure they said they had kits before E3 was even here. In fact I think there was a link to someone saying that in this very thread.

I'll take you up on that bet YRD. The Hard Core gamer has always driven the technology and innovation side. The casual gamer market has always driven the business. That goes all the way back to Atari, Coleco, Nintendo, arcade machines and a few others I forgot. Hard core evolved more from the computer industry. Casual is going nowhere. In fact it is getting bigger with Apple, mobile apps, cloud and soon...Cable & Sat Providers. IMO there is a very good synergy right now between HC and Casual.
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