Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rage Guy View Post

What about this angle.. For any next gen console, its pretty much a given that the games will most likely exceed the storage capacity of a DVD. Also, think of this - what component on the current gen of consoles is a leading contributor of noise and heat? Hmmm... the optical drive... So, would it be unreasonable to think that our next gen Xbox would use use a flash drive? The prices of flash memory keep dropping, and it would also eliminate the heat and noise of an optical drive.

A blank Blu-Ray costs less than $1 per disc at retail. Less at wholesale. Flash has a LONG way to go to be viable for game publishing.
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post #182 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

I have a FiOS 25/5 connection which is probably in this country's top 98 percentile in terms of connection speed. I'm not buying a console that has me download a 5GB+ title prior to being able to play it. I do appreciate the option, but think we're still a solid 10+ years away from having an infrastructure in place in this country to support it as the only option.

I think most of this country is in the same instant gratification category as I am - I buy a game, I want to pop it in and play it immediately. Whether they use BD as the medium or another form is up for debate, but I think it's going to be a while before physical media disappears entirely.

I'm not saying that Xbox will go digital download or anything, but I think you are missing something here. If they went digital download, you wouldn't have to wait for it to download. More than likely it would download a few days ahead of time (like on Sunday) and you would have it on your machine and ready to be activated on release day (Tuesday). This means you could play the game hours before you could go to Gamestop and pick it up or have it delivered from Amazon. If that's not instant gratification then I don't know what is. The people who wait a few days or a month to pick it up are probably not so excited about playing that they can't wait for it to download.

That being said, as I've stated before, I like my physical media because I like to sell my games and trade with my friends.

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post #183 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

Your point about market place movies makes sense as long as you are preaching to the choir but the Mom in the store is going to ask if it has Blu-Ray. Most people buying consoles don't know what the forumites know. Not to mention that 40% of US households don't have internet and therefore cannot access marketplace.

How many of those 40% are in the market for a high end videogame system?

According to this link:
http://www.broadbandbeyondborders.co...ility_2010.pdf

241M out of 278M are "served" by broadband according to the FCC definition (chart on page 4). That means 87% of people who want it can get it. And US broadband access is crappy by first world standards.

If 40% of people don't have "internet" that means that a huge chunk of those people don't want it. I don't think those people are in the market for a connected, online services oriented videogame system.

Microsoft has been pushing broadband access on Xbox since 2002 when they made it mandatory for Live access. They put up a video marketplace years before Sony and even before Netflix streaming. They are ahead of the game on this and I don't expect that to stop.

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Perhaps they did not in 2006 but it is 2011 now. But it is interesting that you think the same parent that you claim does not know about Blu-Ray, somehow does know about streaming.

Streaming is, if anything, more intuitive and convenient than discs. You load up the box, go to the video marketplace, and find what you want. No discs, no "will my player play this", instant gratification, etc.
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post #184 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 07:53 AM
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It is funny that everyone talks about MS like they are a person, and a stubborn one at that. What is boils down to is the company is going to look at the nextbox and say will we make more money if we have a BR drive? Yes? We put it in. No? We dont.

Everyone talks about giving sony money. They are not writing a check to sony when they do it, they are paying the consortium which sony has a piece. There are also a lot of other hands in that cookie jar so that is a moot point.

There are a lot of people like me who ONLY play on an xbox but bought the PS3 for BluRay. I am pretty sure sony makes more money with me buying a PS3 vs the pittance MS would pay in royalties.

Lastly, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL MS, sony, AND NINTENDO WILL DO. Stop getting so heated and just discuss. I am pretty sure most of the people on this site are grown up's, lets act like it
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post #185 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

I'm not saying that Xbox will go digital download or anything, but I think you are missing something here. If they went digital download, you wouldn't have to wait for it to download. More than likely it would download a few days ahead of time (like on Sunday) and you would have it on your machine and ready to be activated on release day (Tuesday). This means you could play the game hours before you could go to Gamestop and pick it up or have it delivered from Amazon. If that's not instant gratification then I don't know what is. The people who wait a few days or a month to pick it up are probably not so excited about playing that they can't wait for it to download.

That being said, as I've stated before, I like my physical media because I like to sell my games and trade with my friends.

Right, for pre-ordered release date delivery - from my understanding, that is similar to how Steam works. But, spur of the moment want to pick up a game cause I'm bored out of my gord, then no. Cue the elevator music (unless there is a buffered way to start playing a game while it's downloading - and if there is, lets apply it to these demos we get now!).

That being said, I completely agree with your statement about physical media. If it weren't for the ability to trade or sell my physical media, I wouldn't have played 3/4 of the games I've played this generation.

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post #186 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by brianbat420 View Post

Lastly, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL MS, sony, AND NINTENDO WILL DO. Stop getting so heated and just discuss. I am pretty sure most of the people on this site are grown up's, lets act like it

This is not true.

There are steps that have to happen for a new console launch. It is a pretty big deal and takes a lot of coordination between MS and third party developers.

That has not happened yet (or you would have heard of it by now). This safely rules out 2012 for launch of next Xbox. The question is whether or not it will be 2013 (unlikely), 2014, or 2015.

The same goes for BR. If you have heard MS exec's and Steve Ballmer talk about various strategies, you can safely deduce that they are not going down the BR road. It isn't happening.
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post #187 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by brianbat420 View Post

It is funny that everyone talks about MS like they are a person, and a stubborn one at that. What is boils down to is the company is going to look at the nextbox and say will we make more money if we have a BR drive? Yes? We put it in. No? We dont.

Everyone talks about giving sony money. They are not writing a check to sony when they do it, they are paying the consortium which sony has a piece. There are also a lot of other hands in that cookie jar so that is a moot point.

There are a lot of people like me who ONLY play on an xbox but bought the PS3 for BluRay. I am pretty sure sony makes more money with me buying a PS3 vs the pittance MS would pay in royalties.

Lastly, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL MS, sony, AND NINTENDO WILL DO. Stop getting so heated and just discuss. I am pretty sure most of the people on this site are grown up's, lets act like it

Will MS make any profit by putting a BR drive in a Xbox? No

Buy the time MS releases the next Xbox how much will BR players be? Under $50.

Why did most people buy the PS3 for a Bluray player? When it launched, the PS3 was not only the BEST Bluray player on the market.. it was also the CHEAPEST. You also got a free gaming console.



Im not necessarily disagreeing with what you said. But I think even you need to look at the points you were trying to make.. and consider the context in which they had/will exist.

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post #188 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

How many of those 40% are in the market for a high end videogame system?

According to this link:
http://www.broadbandbeyondborders.co...ility_2010.pdf

241M out of 278M are "served" by broadband according to the FCC definition (chart on page 4). That means 87% of people who want it can get it. And US broadband access is crappy by first world standards.

If 40% of people don't have "internet" that means that a huge chunk of those people don't want it. I don't think those people are in the market for a connected, online services oriented videogame system.

Microsoft has been pushing broadband access on Xbox since 2002 when they made it mandatory for Live access. They put up a video marketplace years before Sony and even before Netflix streaming. They are ahead of the game on this and I don't expect that to stop.



Streaming is, if anything, more intuitive and convenient than discs. You load up the box, go to the video marketplace, and find what you want. No discs, no "will my player play this", instant gratification, etc.

Plenty of people who don't have internet still play video games. The current generation of consoles is the first in which online connectivity has been so central. There are 50 million xbox 360s out there and 25 million xbox live members. Only 50% of Xbox live users pay for the gold service.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/12/02...-subscription/

That means 75% of the consoles don't connect to xbox live gold, including those that don't connect to the internet at all (50%) and those only connecting to silver (25%), leaving only 25% of xbox 360s able to receive streaming content. 12.5 million out of 50 million.

So yes, people are still interested in a high end gaming system regardless of having an internet connection or not. This shows that there is value in making the machine more attractive to our non connected brethren. MS is not crazy. They are not going to gear their next machine to the 25% of their user base that uses live gold. They are going to try to make it accessible to the most customers possible. This means making the most of BOTH connected and non connected entertainment options.

We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that because we and our friends are all using our consoles for streaming, downloading and Multi-player, that everyone else is too. But that is not true. MS certainly wants to grow the digital services market and the next console will be designed to do just that, but they also know what the market looks like now. And they are in business first to sell as much product as possible and to make as much money as possible and that means having a machine that can play movies even if you don't connect to the internet.
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post #189 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

That being said, as I've stated before, I like my physical media because I like to sell my games and trade with my friends.

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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

That being said, I completely agree with your statement about physical media. If it weren't for the ability to trade or sell my physical media, I wouldn't have played 3/4 of the games I've played this generation.

Both of you make another point for why manufacters/developers would push for digital downloads next generation. How much profit does MS make everytime a used game is sold or trader? How much profit does any developer/studio/publishing company make everytime a used game is sold or trader?

These are companies in business to make money. How concerned do you think they are with you being to purchase their products without them collecting additional revenue.

Do I even need to mention that as of last year, EA has starting charging a $10 fee to play a used/previously owned copy of their sports titles online?

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post #190 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

Plenty of people who don't have internet still play video games. The current generation of consoles is the first in which online connectivity has been so central. There are 50 million xbox 360s out there and 25 million xbox live members. Only 50% of Xbox live users pay for the gold service.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/12/02...-subscription/

That means 75% of the consoles don't connect to xbox live gold, including those that don't connect to the internet at all (50%) and those only connecting to silver (25%), leaving only 25% of xbox 360s able to receive streaming content. 12.5 million out of 50 million.

So yes, people are still interested in a high end gaming system regardless of having an internet connection or not. This shows that there is value in making the machine more attractive to our non connected brethren. MS is not crazy. They are not going to gear their next machine to the 25% of their user base that uses live. They are going to try to make it accessible to the most customers possible. This means making the most of BOTH connected and non connected entertainment options.

We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that because we and our friends are all using our consoles for streaming, downloading and Multi-player, that everyone else is too. But that is not true. MS certainly wants to grow the digital services market and the next console will be designed to do just that, but they also know what the market looks like now. And they are in business first to sell as much product as possible and to make as much money as possible and that means having a machine that can play movies even if you don't connect to the internet.

You act as if time is going backwards. Like somehow in the future, the percentage of Xbox360's going online is going to decrease. If 50% of all Xbox360s are online now.. what do you think that number will be in the future? It will only increase as Moore's law takes into effect. Bandwidth will increase, bandwidth accessibility will increase and bandwidth prices will decrease.

If anything the online/digital download model will only get more popular as time passes and technology improves. Do you dare look at what has happened to the music industry. Physical CD sales look pitiful against the online music. When is the last time you bought a CD? The day is coming when you say exact same thing about when is the last time you bought a physical/optical disc.

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post #191 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:23 AM
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Music is cheap and has no DRM. Do you want to pay $60 for a download and never have the ability to lend it out or resell it?

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post #192 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Will MS make any profit by putting a BR drive in a Xbox? No

Buy the time MS releases the next Xbox how much will BR players be? Under $50..

I agree that BR players will be under $50 in the not too distant future. When they are, how much do you think the components will be? How much additional cost do you think a BR drive will be? If MS can add, lets just guess at a number, $10 to the total cost of the box to appeal to a much broader audience, enable BR playback, and something, I forgot. I think that is a win win for them.

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Why did most people buy the PS3 for a Bluray player? When it launched, the PS3 was not only the BEST Bluray player on the market.. it was also the CHEAPEST. You also got a free gaming console..

Touché. Valid point. Prices have dropped significantly and that is one reason I think PS3 sales have slowed. Also, for a person like me, and many that I know, I would be exstatic to get that sony machine out of my house. I dont appreciate companies that talk but dont deliver and sony has been one of them. So if the nextbox can be my one and only gaming/media center I would JUMP on that.



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Im not necessarily disagreeing with what you said. But I think even you need to look at the points you were trying to make.. and consider the context in which they had/will exist.

No worries, I enjoy conversing the finer points and seeing different views. Hopefully when more details come out we can continue, with facts of course LoL
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post #193 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:38 AM
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More speculation...

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...d-xbox-devices

Notice that 2012 is not even in the equation and they mention 2015.
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post #194 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Both of you make another point for why manufacters/developers would push for digital downloads next generation. How much profit does MS make everytime a used game is sold or trader? How much profit does any developer/studio/publishing company make everytime a used game is sold or trader?

These are companies in business to make money. How concerned do you think they are with you being to purchase their products without them collecting additional revenue.

Do I even need to mention that as of last year, EA has starting charging a $10 fee to play a used/previously owned copy of their sports titles online?

The thing is, without the ability to sell my used games I'm not going to buy new games. If I'm not going to buy new games and can't buy used ones, what is the point in owning an xbox. Also, I know a lot of people, especially kids, that get all of their games through used retail. You think any of those people are going to buy the next xbox or sign up for xbox live, or download add-on content or any of these other money making schemes if they can't buy my used games?

The only way I would consider buying games that are not able to be sold is if the price was dropped significantlly. I would pay, at most $40. I just bought homefront out of curiosity for $60 and traded it for $37. No way I'd take that chance if I knew I would be out $60 if I didn't like it.

I think Microsoft and Sony know that the used game market is essential to having a successful console even if the publishers hate it.

AS far as the $10 to play online. I won't pay that for a sports game and unless I can get a used game really cheap, I'm not going to pay it for a shooter either.

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post #195 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Music is cheap and has no DRM. Do you want to pay $60 for a download and never have the ability to lend it out or resell it?

Who says you won't be able to trade or sell your digital downloads? Amazon allows you to "lend" kindle books out for two weeks. During this time you are unable to read your book, it's like the person you are lending it to has it in their possession.

Selling could be done the same way where you transfer you license for good to someone's gamertag, and you receive MS Point credit, then MS is basically the middle man and sells the used game. There are only as many available "used" games, as people that have sold them.

There are ways to enable sharing of digital media, while still having DRM.

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post #196 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 09:59 AM
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If companies are going to start going all digital download, some practices are going to have to change.

1) All games must have a substantial demo (none of this 3 rounds in Fight Night crap).
2) All games must have a rental option. I would have paid $5 to play Homefront for 5 days and not felt bad about it at all. If I wanted to purchase after that and pay the other $35 (because I said earlier I wouldn't pay $60 for something I can't trade) I could do that.
3) Need a lending system. I don't see this as much of a deal breaker for me, but some do.

I know the rental system would piss off a lot of publishers, but if you sell me a game that I can beat in 4 hours, you shouldn't have been charging full price anyway. And if the MP is good enough, they'll buy the game regardless.

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post #197 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

How many of those 40% are in the market for a high end videogame system?

According to this link:
http://www.broadbandbeyondborders.co...ility_2010.pdf

241M out of 278M are "served" by broadband according to the FCC definition (chart on page 4). That means 87% of people who want it can get it. And US broadband access is crappy by first world standards.

If 40% of people don't have "internet" that means that a huge chunk of those people don't want it. I don't think those people are in the market for a connected, online services oriented videogame system.

Microsoft has been pushing broadband access on Xbox since 2002 when they made it mandatory for Live access. They put up a video marketplace years before Sony and even before Netflix streaming. They are ahead of the game on this and I don't expect that to stop.



Streaming is, if anything, more intuitive and convenient than discs. You load up the box, go to the video marketplace, and find what you want. No discs, no "will my player play this", instant gratification, etc.

I'm not sure how accurate that study is. They consider an entire county served if over 1% of the population has "broadband" (4MB down/1MB up). I think that's taking a pretty big leap.

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post #198 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

If companies are going to start going all digital download, some practices are going to have to change.

1) All games must have a substantial demo (none of this 3 rounds in Fight Night crap).
2) All games must have a rental option. I would have paid $5 to play Homefront for 5 days and not felt bad about it at all. If I wanted to purchase after that and pay the other $35 (because I said earlier I wouldn't pay $60 for something I can't trade) I could do that.
3) Need a lending system. I don't see this as much of a deal breaker for me, but some do.

I know the rental system would piss off a lot of publishers, but if you sell me a game that I can beat in 4 hours, you shouldn't have been charging full price anyway. And if the MP is good enough, they'll buy the game regardless.


To solve 1 and 2, you just give a 24 hour (one time per title) return policy, just like the Android market.

Don't buy the game until you have time to substantially review it.

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post #199 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Will MS make any profit by putting a BR drive in a Xbox? No

Buy the time MS releases the next Xbox how much will BR players be? Under $50.

Why did most people buy the PS3 for a Bluray player? When it launched, the PS3 was not only the BEST Bluray player on the market.. it was also the CHEAPEST. You also got a free gaming console.



Im not necessarily disagreeing with what you said. But I think even you need to look at the points you were trying to make.. and consider the context in which they had/will exist.

You're actually supporting the point. Blu-ray players will be so cheap by the time it comes out that they could throw one in there for a few bucks and possibly catch a few buyers that want an all-in-one machine. Think dorms and kids rooms where there isn't a lot of space, so you want to condense your equipment as much as possible.

Obviously a download only solution accomplishes the same thing, but I still don't think the country as a whole will be ready for that by the time the launch comes around.

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post #200 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by browerjs View Post

To solve 1 and 2, you just give a 24 hour (one time per title) return policy, just like the Android market.

Don't buy the game until you have time to substantially review it.

This is a bit different though. Many games can be completed in 24 hours, so you'd lose sales by people "demoing" the game and beating it without ever having to really pay for it.

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post #201 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 10:23 AM
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You act as if time is going backwards. Like somehow in the future, the percentage of Xbox360's going online is going to decrease. If 50% of all Xbox360s are online now.. what do you think that number will be in the future? It will only increase as Moore's law takes into effect. Bandwidth will increase, bandwidth accessibility will increase and bandwidth prices will decrease.

If anything the online/digital download model will only get more popular as time passes and technology improves. Do you dare look at what has happened to the music industry. Physical CD sales look pitiful against the online music. When is the last time you bought a CD? The day is coming when you say exact same thing about when is the last time you bought a physical/optical disc.

I wouldn't argue that the download model will get more popular, I just think it sucks. Unlike you, even if I had a fast connection I'd still want the physical media. I know I might be in the minority on that but I'm a collector so I want the actual media. I'd also be a little concerned that if the company I'm downloading from (whether it be Microsoft or the publisher or developer or whoever) stops supporting/offering that game 5 or 10 years down the line, am I out of luck if it somehow gets deleted? What if my system crashes and I lose the data and that game isn't there anymore? Maybe all moot points if they have giant, eternal data storage on their end, but I'm just sayin'.

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post #202 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 11:05 AM
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This is not true. .

Not to sound like a smartass, but unless you are the director in one of the companies It is.


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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

There are steps that have to happen for a new console launch. It is a pretty big deal and takes a lot of coordination between MS and third party developers.

That has not happened yet (or you would have heard of it by now). This safely rules out 2012 for launch of next Xbox. The question is whether or not it will be 2013 (unlikely), 2014, or 2015..

Agreed. There are a lot of parts in making a new system and with the posting, it appears MS is JUST starting to think about a new system and design it. There is one caveat IF, and I do mean IF, MS was able to secretly develop a system without the world knowing then the posting would just get sony to start a system (Or announce theirs if they have been secretly developing one, again, without the world knowing.)

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The same goes for BR. If you have heard MS exec's and Steve Ballmer talk about various strategies, you can safely deduce that they are not going down the BR road. It isn't happening.

Again this is said jokingly but, I havent heard because I have never been to a high level executive meeting at MS LoL

Like I said before, If they will make money off it I think they will. Like others have said I dont see them having only DVD in the nextbox. With HD now pretty much standard on all new tv's and 3D (Worthless in my opinion but a selling point) being more main stream the nextbox will have to have more space. I am all for HD-DVD and maybe if they put it in the nextbox they will release new movies on it and I can rebuild my preferred format
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post #203 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 11:06 AM
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Selling could be done the same way where you transfer you license for good to someone's gamertag, and you receive MS Point credit, then MS is basically the middle man and sells the used game. There are only as many available "used" games, as people that have sold them.

Interesting concept, so what will MS sell the 'used' license for? We're talking about data which really doesn't have any tangible value, unlike a physical game. Who determines the value of the used license, the seller or MS? Does MS get a cut of the 'sale'? How will you advertise your license for sale, via some kind of 'craiglist' style classified on the Live Marketplace? I'm asking these questions because I'm curious to hear more about your ideas on this.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #204 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

You act as if time is going backwards. Like somehow in the future, the percentage of Xbox360's going online is going to decrease. If 50% of all Xbox360s are online now.. what do you think that number will be in the future? It will only increase as Moore's law takes into effect. Bandwidth will increase, bandwidth accessibility will increase and bandwidth prices will decrease.

If anything the online/digital download model will only get more popular as time passes and technology improves. Do you dare look at what has happened to the music industry. Physical CD sales look pitiful against the online music. When is the last time you bought a CD? The day is coming when you say exact same thing about when is the last time you bought a physical/optical disc.

50% online but only 25% streaming. Even if it were 50% streaming that would not cause MS to go all digital downloads. Way too much money sitting out there for folks who want physical media. They want to sell those people consoles too.
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post #205 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Interesting concept, so what will MS sell the 'used' license for? We're talking about data which really doesn't have any tangible value, unlike a physical game. Who determines the value of the used license, the seller or MS? Does MS get a cut of the 'sale'? How will you advertise your license for sale, via some kind of 'craiglist' style classified on the Live Marketplace? I'm asking these questions because I'm curious to hear more about your ideas on this.

MS determines the buy price, and then they also determine the sell price (higher then they buy). They take the difference.

They advertise that you can buy "used" licenses. These "used" licenses may be difficult to acquire, as you need one seller for every buyer.

It would be the exact same model as a gamestop, but MS handles it all... If they really wanted to lock down inventory they could do it by market. So you can only buy from sellers within 45 miles of your zip or something like that...

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post #206 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

I wouldn't argue that the download model will get more popular, I just think it sucks. Unlike you, even if I had a fast connection I'd still want the physical media. I know I might be in the minority on that but I'm a collector so I want the actual media. I'd also be a little concerned that if the company I'm downloading from (whether it be Microsoft or the publisher or developer or whoever) stops supporting/offering that game 5 or 10 years down the line, am I out of luck if it somehow gets deleted? What if my system crashes and I lose the data and that game isn't there anymore? Maybe all moot points if they have giant, eternal data storage on their end, but I'm just sayin'.

Don't worry, they have giant eternal data storage...

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post #207 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 12:08 PM
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I'm having an extremely difficult time with the new/used concept in a digital download landscape. Why would anyone buy new if there is a used version available?

I just don't see that ever happening, or publishers ever agreeing to it no matter how much MS pays them. Aside from deciding on whether you want that new case smell from GS, at least now publishers have other channels that only sell their games new. I'd rather bank on the current environment where a consumer may not be in the area of a store that has a used copy available, then have it be an instantaneous option for them (with no defining differences between new and used).

I think when we move to digital downloads only, there will be no resale value for them.

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post #208 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

I think when we move to digital downloads only, there will be no resale value for them.

Which is exactly why I have a huge problem with going to a DD model. I am a buy/play/sell gamer and I would not be able buy nearly as many titles as I do if my only option was to buy/play/delete.

For example, I bought Dead Space 2 for $40, played through it twice, sold it for $38.50 to Amazon.

I see it as being a loss for gamers if we move to a dd only model.

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post #209 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by browerjs View Post

MS determines the buy price, and then they also determine the sell price (higher then they buy). They take the difference.

They advertise that you can buy "used" licenses. These "used" licenses may be difficult to acquire, as you need one seller for every buyer.

It would be the exact same model as a gamestop, but MS handles it all... If they really wanted to lock down inventory they could do it by market. So you can only buy from sellers within 45 miles of your zip or something like that...

Interesting ideas, I don't see them being implemented, but thanks for answering my question in any event.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #210 of 7006 Old 03-23-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

I'm having an extremely difficult time with the new/used concept in a digital download landscape. Why would anyone buy new if there is a used version available?


Because there has to be a used one available (just like in a store). Think of it like this:

1. Game comes out for $60
2. 10 people buy game on day 1, no one sells game back to MS for $35
3. Day 2, 1 person sells it back for $35
4. MS lists game on "used marketplace" for $55
5. Someone buys game for $55
6. No more available to buy used

They would probably need to add a stipulation that games can't be sold back if they are bought used.

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