Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 92 - AVS Forum
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post #2731 of 7006 Old 03-07-2012, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The controller itself is but....you can't launch or buy a game with it, sometimes can't even configure a game. You always need to fall back on a mouse/kb at some point, and that's where it fails and the user experience becomes ******. Also, some really high profile games (mass effect 3 even) don't support it.

Everything needs to happen with just a controller, just like consoles, for this to work.

I respect your opinion and am sure you will find a next gen platform that heavily supports a controller.

I am a different gaming demographic. I usually either buy games with a keyboard (Amazon, Newegg, etc.); or buy them while in a brick and mortar store (Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, Frys). The only time I use a controller to buy something is when I enter codes into the xbox marketplace for 12 month live subscriptions or MS points. I find using the controller to enter these codes a pain in the ***.

I don't play many games with a keyboard and mouse; however I have spent many, many hours playing Diablo II and Civilization IV. I cannot imagine playing either of these games with a controller.

Again, I think that you should be able to play the games you enjoy with a controller.
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post #2732 of 7006 Old 03-07-2012, 08:25 AM
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I would say everything needs to be possible with a controller, but it shouldn't be exclusive to the controller. I wouldn't mind seeing a controller with a touch screen as big as a cell phone and have a cell phone type keyboard display. That way you could use that for short messages/entering codes or whatever and when you wanted to use a regular keyboard you could do that just as easily.

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post #2733 of 7006 Old 03-07-2012, 10:57 AM
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Oh don't get me wrong guys. I'm with you. And so is valve. They've clearly stated that their biggest issue with consoles is that they're not open. Steam's bread and butter is still PC, and that still means KB and mouse. But that works best on a desk.

There's still nothing better than a controller for a couch. As long as I'm not forced to use a KB and mouse on my couch, and no one is forced to use a controller at a desk, everyone wins.

As long as you're able to do everything end to end with the input method of your choice, this can be huge.

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post #2734 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 05:07 AM
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http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/09/xbox-7...ch-disc-drive/

To keep the speculation moving along ....
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post #2735 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/09/xbox-7...ch-disc-drive/

To keep the speculation moving along ....

I can't decide if this is a good thing or not, I have never seen microsoft be this ballsy though so somehow I doubt its true.

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post #2736 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 03:32 PM
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Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.
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post #2737 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.

Its not too hard of a stretch to believe this, in fact IF they do this the game developers would probably go nuts because they'd never lose a sale of a game again. The problem is bandwidth.

If a next gen game is 4 or 7 gigs....it could fit on a DVD and thusly I call B.S. Just slap a nice, thin slot-drive DVD in the thing.

HERE ARE MY PREDICTIONS: Every unit has a hard drive that requires the game to be installed from DISC or from Direct Download at the users choice. The game may come on 2-3 DVD's for those who are bandwidth challenged, but they wont actually play from the DVD so disc-swapping will be a thing of the past.

Now, having said that....we can see what a FAT lot of good Sony's 50gb Blu Ray drive has done for games can't we. So everything has to be installed to the HD anyways or else it takes you 5 minutes to boot up your game. You can have all the uncompressed 7.1 channel audio you want, but when you are hearing screams and gunshots and spooky ambient noises.....who really gives a Fudge if its DD 5.1 or MP3 at 256k or uncompressed Master Quality 96hz audio taking up 20 megs per sample.

Everything will run off the hard drive, and I'll bet rather than swap hard drives you will be able to daisy-chain additional HD units to your xbox. Bigger game library? Buy another hard drive that will come in a nice little stackable case and connects to the last drive you plugged in, or your xbox. Or choose to install/uninstall games at your leisure.

That....is the prediction of NostrodamHeadRusch...

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post #2738 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.

not hard to believe, but i don't want it.... i buy most of my games with the intention to trading them in and paying 30 dollars for a game is a lot different than 60 or more...
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post #2739 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 04:04 PM
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Ive grown addicted to Amazon's warehouse deals, so I wont be buying a DD only system. I just dont like the idea of any company having the right to flip a kill switch on all my content should they choose to.

I've probably spent under $40 total on actual digital content (not counting subscriptions like psn+, live and netflix) and dont have plans to spend much more.

I know that DD is the future, I just dont like how it is currently handled.

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post #2740 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 05:11 PM
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I can't see them not offering a disc drive of some sort. It may not be in the core system, but I would think they will at least offer a version that has one or sell an add on for those who can't/won't go DD. Even though I have access to very good internet speeds, many do not.

I would be fine with a DD version of the system. As long as they include a large enough HDD off the start. At some point I would most likely prefer a disc option to pick up older games on fantastic sales. If I can buy new games DD for less than a disc game, count me in.

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post #2741 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/09/xbox-7...ch-disc-drive/

To keep the speculation moving along ....

That rumor is way to unlikely. Personally I am 99% sure that the next Microsoft game console will have a Blu-ray drive. It may not be able to play Blu-ray movies but a Blu-ray drive provides the best combination of cost, capacity, and speed.


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Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.

At least for the next 5 years I don't see any of the three major game console companies releasing a DD only home game console.
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post #2742 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.

Phones are already connected to a network, so that's a totally different issue. I really can't imagine MS would do this unless they figure that the decreased consumer base would pay enough extra (for a monthly/yearly plan) to make up for the potential lost consumer base.

Then there's the problem of publishers and retailers...

I can imagine that MS (and every other console manufacturer) will continue pushing DD hard. But I can't imagine they'll cut off physical retail altogether.

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post #2743 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Its not too hard of a stretch to believe this, in fact IF they do this the game developers would probably go nuts because they'd never lose a sale of a game again. The problem is bandwidth.

If a next gen game is 4 or 7 gigs....it could fit on a DVD and thusly I call B.S. Just slap a nice, thin slot-drive DVD in the thing.

HERE ARE MY PREDICTIONS: Every unit has a hard drive that requires the game to be installed from DISC or from Direct Download at the users choice. The game may come on 2-3 DVD's for those who are bandwidth challenged, but they wont actually play from the DVD so disc-swapping will be a thing of the past.

Now, having said that....we can see what a FAT lot of good Sony's 50gb Blu Ray drive has done for games can't we. So everything has to be installed to the HD anyways or else it takes you 5 minutes to boot up your game. You can have all the uncompressed 7.1 channel audio you want, but when you are hearing screams and gunshots and spooky ambient noises.....who really gives a Fudge if its DD 5.1 or MP3 at 256k or uncompressed Master Quality 96hz audio taking up 20 megs per sample.

Everything will run off the hard drive, and I'll bet rather than swap hard drives you will be able to daisy-chain additional HD units to your xbox. Bigger game library? Buy another hard drive that will come in a nice little stackable case and connects to the last drive you plugged in, or your xbox. Or choose to install/uninstall games at your leisure.

That....is the prediction of NostrodamHeadRusch...


If the PS3 had a faster drive it wouldn't need to install. It's because it's first gen technology blu drive that you have to install the games. It doesn't have fast enough read speeds. It still sports 2x blu ray read.

This has already been discussed in this thread. If any of the new systems go disc-less, they are going to see a lot less sales in games. That's a fact. Why do people want used games, or rent games? Because they want to save money. Buying direct from microsoft is not going to save anyone money. You can see the xbox live prices compared to amazon or whatever and it doesn't even compare. If they are going DD only, I'm not buying the next iteration of xbox. UNLESS, they have some kind of 3rd party stores, like amazon market or such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Why is it so hard to believe the future is DD? Your iphone and ipad is DD. Compression tech is getting better. Storage is cheap and the cloud is here. Not making a call just pointing out, DD is already here folks. Not too much of a stretch to believe it won't be part of the the next gen consoles.

Comparing ipad to xbox is not an even comparison. We're talking 7gig games versus 100mb or something. ipad and xbox live arcade is an apt comparison.

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post #2744 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/09/xbox-7...ch-disc-drive/

To keep the speculation moving along ....

The problem I may have is hitting the bandwidth cap really quickly.
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post #2745 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post


not hard to believe, but i don't want it.... i buy most of my games with the intention to trading them in and paying 30 dollars for a game is a lot different than 60 or more...

my feelings exactly. If MS goes strictly DD, then my gaming days will not be on a xbox anymore. Its too soon for a media'less console.
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post #2746 of 7006 Old 03-09-2012, 09:13 PM
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Look what happened to the PSP Go and you will see why it would be an idiotic move to do so. The Go is exactly what they are talking about if the next box was disc less. Less customers right off the bat because they don't have high speed or Internet at all. That will be the main reason over why the idea is bad.

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post #2747 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 11:04 AM
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On game size and bandwidth caps: Compression tech is getting better and don't you think developers are looking for a way to get more out of less? Also, storage is cheap and the cloud is here.

Trade in games: I think the idea would be less expensive titles. That could offset your trade in you would have otherwise done. Pure speculation.

Would decreased customer base pay more (retail price of nexbox or xbox live access): Of course they will. No brainer. People paid $600 for current gen consoles without blinking an eye. The retail purchasing habits of consumers will blow you away if you study it. Gamers more so.

It would be MS wet dream to have apple's app store type control over gaming on their consoles. I'm not advocating anything here nor am I making a call. Just saying it's not hard to get to the idea that a DD only console could be on the horizon or that MS wants a larger chunk of the action.
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post #2748 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 11:19 AM
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Allow NostradamRusch to enlighten you all: In the age of digital content distribution, the used game market as we know it today has effectively End Of Lifed.

Right now used game sales are a HUGE, MASSIVE business. Every single game sold means not one single dollar goes to the developers. That is bad. GAMESTOP and EB are getting rich hand over fist selling used games that return nothing to the coffers of the developers.

But imagine this.....Games next gen are digitally distributed. Pre Orders sell at a discount, upon release the game is full price but possibly cheaper than the $60 we are used to now...maybe its $50 for most normal titles....$80 for titles with lots of DLC included and extras. BUT THERE IS NO USED GAMES!? Oh Noes, what doez we do? WELL we do what Origin and Steam do now.....as a games sales slow, they have a sale...$10 bucks off....$20 bucks off.....until the games are $19.99 or $9.99...

Every used game sold today returns exactly ZERO to the developers unless there is an online key that needs buying. But what if you could buy the game for $10 or $20, brand new from the developer, so all the money goes right to them and there IS no used game market.

That is the way it is going to happen......developers want that money themselves, they hate seeing pawn-shops like gamestop and such make their multi million/billion dollar livings trading in their used wares, which they do not see a dime from.

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post #2749 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 12:22 PM
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But imagine this.....Games next gen are digitally distributed. Pre Orders sell at a discount, upon release the game is full price but possibly cheaper than the $60 we are used to now...maybe its $50 for most normal titles....$80 for titles with lots of DLC included and extras. BUT THERE IS NO USED GAMES!? Oh Noes, what doez we do? WELL we do what Origin and Steam do now.....as a games sales slow, they have a sale...$10 bucks off....$20 bucks off.....until the games are $19.99 or $9.99...

They have to promote that behavior by actually doing it, which they don't. Steam does it, microsoft doesn't it. I'm not in the market for full price games. That's why I'm not going to be buying into any DD only system.

Steam has some amazing sales, and I have been buying a lot of games through that system lately.

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post #2750 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 01:29 PM
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Steam does almost everything right, but they still have a killswitch and many games have drm. I love digital only devices, but I hate the idea that a content provider can simply say "no games for you" and kill my account and everything on it.

A service that supports devs and is as easy as pirating the game needs to come along with steam style pricing and no drm of any kind.

Pirates will continue to do so no matter the drm (it gets cracked in less than a day anyway, and usually hits the net days ahead of the release date, so it kinda defeats the purpose) someone needs to make the push with modern games (gog does it with the classics)

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post #2751 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Steam does almost everything right, but they still have a killswitch and many games have drm. I love digital only devices, but I hate the idea that a content provider can simply say "no games for you" and kill my account and everything on it.

This is the big pay-off for digital content. Platform holders and IP owners have complete control. "Piracy" is just a strawman to facilitate more legal sanctions against legitimate consumers.

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Pirates will continue to do so no matter the drm (it gets cracked in less than a day anyway, and usually hits the net days ahead of the release date, so it kinda defeats the purpose) someone needs to make the push with modern games (gog does it with the classics)

The dirty secret about DRM: publishers know full well that it doesn't prevent piracy. They don't care. It allows them full control over legitimate software consumers. They're not interested in stopping piracy no matter what they keep saying. It's just a ruse to justify silently removing (legitimate) consumer protections.

Why would they do such a thing? Many reasons. One reason is so that publishers and platform holders can have exactly the sort of "killswitch" you mention above. With that in place, they can resell the same product. Or they can repackage the same product. Or they can alter the same product. Or they can reserve the right to introduce subscription or streaming services. Or anything else that might come down the line in the future.

Anything but combat piracy. It's all a little tinfoil hat-like, I know. But it's the same thing that is happening in other media industries at the moment, too. Media producers and providers want to make sure that they have a leg up over consumers in the massive transition to digital media.

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post #2752 of 7006 Old 03-10-2012, 04:07 PM
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Which is why I love my hacked PSP and DS, I have so many additional options that just arent availible to those without hacked systems. (buy the game and leave it on the shelf sealed, never know what might be the next Radiant Historia)

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post #2753 of 7006 Old 03-15-2012, 07:52 PM
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Well it looks like there will be no 720 announcement this year. Several sources are reporting MS came out and said they will not be announcing at E3 or "anytime soon". Makes sense to me (and others as this was discussed before).

Hopefully the rumors keep coming. Not that they can be taken as gospel, but it keeps the excitement level up.

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post #2754 of 7006 Old 03-15-2012, 09:15 PM
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Current 360 price, biggest exclusive launching in September and quarterly sales are reasons whey they won't announce this year. The same can be said about Sony with the PS3 and just launching the Vita. Neither company "NEEDS" to announce or sneak peak anything. Wii U is not a reason either IMO.

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post #2755 of 7006 Old 03-15-2012, 09:26 PM
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yeah, like I mentioned before, the only thing getting Microsoft to move faster is Sony moving faster. The only way MS will show the new system at E3 is if rumors ramp up that Sony will debut at E3. otherwise, they don't see a need.

But I totally see Microsoft preparing plan A (no new console debut) and plan B (console debut) just in case. If Sony surprises everyone and debuts the PS4, Microsoft would go to plan B. It wouldn't even have to be a dramatic plan B. show a 5 minute montage of CGI clips like Sony does, and then promise a near-future show to fully debut it. An independent show by MTV or Spike or whoever that is fully focused on Microsoft's new console.

neither Microsoft or Sony are in a rush to debut a new system. Making money is the name of the game and Microsoft is at a high and Sony is not doing badly themselves.

The WiiU would have to be significantly better than the current systems to worry them and so far, most rumors say it's not that much faster. Which makes total sense since Nintendo only has video games as its business and needs to make money from the hardware from day 1. The 3DS was the very first device in Nintendo's history to sell at a loss but it wasn't supposed to sell at a loss. It launched poorly and had to reduce its price to get momentum.
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post #2756 of 7006 Old 03-15-2012, 11:57 PM
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There is no plan B. MS has absolutely no intention of taking the spotlight away from Halo 4 and Kinect.

It does not matter what Sony does. For all they care Sony could be announcing PS99. There will be no news regarding Nexbox at E3.
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post #2757 of 7006 Old 03-16-2012, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

There will be no news regarding Nexbox at E3.

No new Xbox at E3 -- really, truly and officially

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...eally_tru.html
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post #2758 of 7006 Old 03-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Well it looks like there will be no 720 announcement this year. Several sources are reporting MS came out and said they will not be announcing at E3 or "anytime soon". Makes sense to me (and others as this was discussed before).

Hopefully the rumors keep coming. Not that they can be taken as gospel, but it keeps the excitement level up.

Looks like a lot of us were right on the money with the 2014-2016 call. I always thought MS would converge the XBox and Windows Game worlds first...to some extent. And it appears they plan to do it with Windows 8 and the XBox 360. I'm glad I popped for a muscled up PC gaming rig in 2011. Because I think that world is going to get very exciting in 2012-2015 with Win-8...Xbox...Kinect convergence. And I believe it will get even better as companies like Valve, EA and others go all out to drive innovative content into that arena. In all likelihood, I will probably upgrade my Jaspar 360 for a Xbox 360 Slim with Kinect this year in anticipation of a tighter Win-8 Live to Xbox Live link up with my beefier PC gaming rig. The potential in that is much more exciting to me than MS just burping a new console into the marketplace in '012-013...and disrupting all of the XBox 360 and Windows 8 momentum.

I actually have a query that is more relevant to the DD only thread.
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post #2759 of 7006 Old 03-16-2012, 11:04 AM
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Don't forget the 360 was announced in may of 2005, the same year it came out. Just cause they're not talking about it this year doesn't push anything to 2014-2016. My money is still on 2013. It's now pretty much established that devs are working on games for next gen consoles. That much was obvious from this year's GDC.

The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

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post #2760 of 7006 Old 03-16-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Don't forget the 360 was announced in may of 2005, the same year it came out. Just cause they're not talking about it this year doesn't push anything to 2014-2016. My money is still on 2013. It's now pretty much established that devs are working on games for next gen consoles. That much was obvious from this year's GDC.

The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

My thoughts exactly.

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