The Official Xbox 360 Dashboard/Update Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 962 Old 12-19-2011, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I've never noticed that.

so what are you trying to say? how come i see that?
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post #542 of 962 Old 12-19-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post


so what are you trying to say? how come i see that?

Don't worry about it.

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post #543 of 962 Old 12-19-2011, 05:33 PM
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I don't see any jerkiness or tearing in the dashboard either. Only problem for me is the messed up black levels.
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post #544 of 962 Old 12-19-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by betterdan View Post

I don't see any jerkiness or tearing in the dashboard either. Only problem for me is the messed up black levels.

its not in the general dashboard, its when you press the Guide button and the windows comes up, try to move the tabs side to side and look at the edges, they tear slightly, sometimes it doesnt happen, i cant figure it out.. i guess its buggy or something..
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post #545 of 962 Old 12-20-2011, 04:38 AM
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I'll try it tonight.
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post #546 of 962 Old 12-20-2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post


its not in the general dashboard, its when you press the Guide button and the windows comes up, try to move the tabs side to side and look at the edges, they tear slightly, sometimes it doesnt happen, i cant figure it out.. i guess its buggy or something..

I haven't had this issue. Don't have the black issue either.

The 5.0 is here
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post #547 of 962 Old 12-20-2011, 07:32 AM
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I haven't had this issue. Don't have the black issue either.

... Everyone has the black issue. Well, that is, everyone using high definition video output via component, VGA or HDMI. I suppose if you were using standard definition (480i) output, you might not have the problem.

I'll admit it can be nuanced in some cases, i.e. if you just look at a random screen, you may not notice it. However, there are certain places where it's more obvious than others. What started out as a vague "Hmmm, does it look a bit off compared to the NXE?" feeling has now been confirmed through independent testing.
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post #548 of 962 Old 12-20-2011, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Slordak View Post

... Everyone has the black issue. Well, that is, everyone using high definition video output via component, VGA or HDMI. I suppose if you were using standard definition (480i) output, you might not have the problem.

I'll admit it can be nuanced in some cases, i.e. if you just look at a random screen, you may not notice it. However, there are certain places where it's more obvious than others. What started out as a vague "Hmmm, does it look a bit off compared to the NXE?" feeling has now been confirmed through independent testing.

So when exactly did this problem start? I have been in the beta and haven't seen a difference on my two LEDs and Sony LCOS. All 3 systems are 250gb Slims with HDMI. Is it the dashboard or Netflix where the problem shows up?

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post #549 of 962 Old 12-20-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

So when exactly did this problem start? I have been in the beta and haven't seen a difference on my two LEDs and Sony LCOS. All 3 systems are 250gb Slims with HDMI. Is it the dashboard or Netflix where the problem shows up?

I don't know whether this started early in the beta for the new dashboard or at a later point in time, since I wasn't part of that. Others can probably comment further.

The amount of perceived difference will be directly related to how you had your displays setup. For example, if you were using RGB and already had the color levels set to "Intermediate" or "Expanded", you may not see much of a difference during video playback. Basically, although the breakage is across the board, it will have a different level of impact depending on your precise setup. So yeah, I'd certainly believe that you may have a setup and set of calibrations where you don't really notice it much.

See the Digital Foundry / Eurogamer article linked from the previous page for details.
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post #550 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 10:21 AM
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VUDU's up in the app marketplace for everyone. As promised, no HDX.

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post #551 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 01:10 PM
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already an indie game making fun of the new dashboard

http://www.mommysbest.blogspot.com/2...ndie-game.html
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post #552 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 02:34 PM
 
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"So when exactly did this problem start? I have been in the beta and haven't seen a difference"

It started at the launch of the new video apps. The beta dashboard worked great, but then the new video layer seems to have been activated at the launch of the new Netflix and Hulu apps, hours before the dashboard came out of beta. Now with the new video layer active, it effects every source of video that I have seen on the 360. Dropping HDMI reference level from Standard to Intermediate fixes video black levels, but then breaks game black levels. For example, hopping in to Battlefield 3 last night to check out the new Karkand expansion, I had to bump Brightness up from it's 50% level to about 75% to avoid all shadows from just being a deep dark pit of detail-less despair.

You have the black level problem. If you don't see it, then awesome! Doesn't change the fact that it is there, on your systems.
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post #553 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 02:35 PM
 
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"already an indie game making fun of the new dashboard"

Not really making fun of it. He's more goddamn pissed off that making XBLIG titles is pretty pointless as it's now impossible to find, and therefore sell, them.
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post #554 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"So when exactly did this problem start? I have been in the beta and haven't seen a difference"

It started at the launch of the new video apps. The beta dashboard worked great, but then the new video layer seems to have been activated at the launch of the new Netflix and Hulu apps, hours before the dashboard came out of beta. Now with the new video layer active, it effects every source of video that I have seen on the 360. Dropping HDMI reference level from Standard to Intermediate fixes video black levels, but then breaks game black levels. For example, hopping in to Battlefield 3 last night to check out the new Karkand expansion, I had to bump Brightness up from it's 50% level to about 75% to avoid all shadows from just being a deep dark pit of detail-less despair.

You have the black level problem. If you don't see it, then awesome! Doesn't change the fact that it is there, on your systems.

Actually, it started as soon as the first preview update was pushed out. I thought it looked washed out, so I threw the AVS 709 black level test at it... Sure enough, black levels were all wrong. Same for white levels, and resolution was now downscaled to what looks like 720p or lower even with the system set to 1080p (whereas the previous dashboard mostly passed a 1080p resolution test). Setting Reference Levels to Intermediate or Extended does NOT fix black levels, as those two settings actually clip black ABOVE digital 16 (Intermediate clips black around 19-20 and Extended clips it above the range of the AVS 709 black level test, so who knows who off that is). I hooked up my NXE system that hasn't been connected to the internet in some time, and with the same settings as my update system, it was correct (black at 16, white at the correct levels for my calibration compared to my Oppo BDP-83). With the new dashboard, you can see the dashboard itself is at the right level by using a black level test JPG as your dashboard background... but as soon as you play a video, black turns gray. Then more bizarrely, if you stop that video and then resume it, black level changes to be slightly darker, but is still displaying content below 16 that it shouldn't.

But you are correct... Every system with the new dashboard has this problem, but if your set is not calibrated or is using any kind of dynamic contrast, it minimizes your chances of seeing the problem. And it has been confirmed on HDMI, component and VGA connections, in all possible settings of color space/reference level.

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post #555 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 05:46 PM
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VUDU's up in the app marketplace for everyone. As promised, no HDX.

Really, no HDX? That's weird...why, I wonder?
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post #556 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 05:48 PM
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FYI, new Vudu users will get a $4.99 credit after downloading the app and creating an account! I did this with a couple of PS3s.
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post #557 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 06:13 PM
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FYI, new Vudu users will get a $4.99 credit after downloading the app and creating an account! I did this with a couple of PS3s.

I got two of these one for registering my PS3 and one for registering my BD player. I see that they did give me $4.99 credit for registering the Xbox (expiring on 1/21), though they didn't announce it. I'm sure I can use it on my BD player, which can play HDX and bitstream DD+. I seem to remember that the credit used to be $5.99, the price of a recent release in HDX, so you can sample their highest quality product. That's what I got when I registered my PS3 and my BD player. Of course, you can't rent HDX on the Xbox which might explain it.

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post #558 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I got two of these one for registering my PS3 and one for registering my BD player. I see that they did give me $4.99 credit for registering the Xbox (expiring on 1/21), though they didn't announce it. I'm sure I can use it on my BD player, which can play HDX and bitstream DD+. I seem to remember that the credit used to be $5.99, the price of a recent release in HDX, so you can sample their highest quality product. That's what I got when I registered my PS3 and my BD player. Of course, you can't rent HDX on the Xbox which might explain it.

Why isn't HDX available? I'll admit, the only times I've used VUDU were with said free credits, but I'm just curious as to why it is excluded.
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post #559 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by John Megadeth View Post

Why isn't HDX available? I'll admit, the only times I've used VUDU were with said free credits, but I'm just curious as to why it is excluded.

IN another thread someone mentioned that it is only 720P on the 360 right now.

VUDU has SD which is 480P24, HD which is 720P24 and HDX which is 1080P24. So if the 360 only shows 720P then maybe that is why HDX is omitted right now.

Which is probably the best way to do it. Otherwise people would be pissed if they paid for an HDX title and found out that the 360 could only use the 720P version.
Hopefully MS remedies this sooner rather than later and enables 1080P encodes for VUDU as well as Netflix.

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post #560 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 09:10 PM
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I like how this is setup. I logged into VUDU on one 360 and then it associated my Gamertag with my VUDU account. Then when I signed in on my other consoles and opened the VUDU app it automatically gave me the $4.99 credit for those boxes. So I got $14.97 in VUDU credits that are good for one month. I guess I'll be watching some movies on VUDU over the Holidays. I definitely don't want to lose those credits.

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post #561 of 962 Old 12-21-2011, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

IN another thread someone mentioned that it is only 720P on the 360 right now.

VUDU has SD which is 480P24, HD which is 720P24 and HDX which is 1080P24. So if the 360 only shows 720P then maybe that is why HDX is omitted right now.

Except that HD Zune video is 1080p--the "quality meter" has 5 parts, 1 to 3 bars for SD, 3 bars plus the letters "HD" for 720p, 3 bars, "HD" and "1080p" for 1080p. (Unlike VUDU, you cannot buy limited-to-720p video; if you buy the HD version you'll get up to 1080p if you have the necessary bandwidth on your connection. Of course they charge what VUDU HDX costs).

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post #562 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ahartig View Post

Quality for me is excellent. Very impressed all around.

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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I think it defaults to the highest resolution possible. I don't have a problem with that.

I'm also under the impression, if your internet speed cannot handle higher resolutions, the quality is automatically adjusted down.

Oh and besides the above comment, I have to say the Youtube HD videos look really good. And, I know they can look a LOT better when they fix the black issue!

Can you guys tell me how this looks to you through the 360's youtube:


It looks pretty bad when I do it through the 360. Like it's SD or something. Could you point me to some sources that you watch that you know for a fact should be HD and look good?

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post #563 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Except that HD Zune video is 1080p--the "quality meter" has 5 parts, 1 to 3 bars for SD, 3 bars plus the letters "HD" for 720p, 3 bars, "HD" and "1080p" for 1080p. (Unlike VUDU, you cannot buy limited-to-720p video; if you buy the HD version you'll get up to 1080p if you have the necessary bandwidth on your connection. Of course they charge what VUDU HDX costs).

But the Zune video is actually1080P isn't it? It's just the VUDU VOD that's limited to 720P right now(and Netflix)?

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post #564 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

But the Zune video is actually1080P isn't it? It's just the VUDU VOD that's limited to 720P right now(and Netflix)?

Yes, the Zune video is 1080p and bandwidth testing that I've run showed a 10 Mbps average for 10 minutes of Zune 1080p. My post was to point out that the lack of 1080p VUDU is not due to an inability of the Xbox to handle it (there are even a small handful of 360 game titles which do 1080p, though for games it's a waste of graphics processing power). My theory is that Microsoft is artificially limiting other video sources in order to make Zune video the only source of 1080p.

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post #565 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yes, the Zune video is 1080p and bandwidth testing that I've run showed a 10 Mbps average for 10 minutes of Zune 1080p. My post was to point out that the lack of 1080p VUDU is not due to an inability of the Xbox to handle it (there are even a small handful of 360 game titles which do 1080p, though for games it's a waste of graphics processing power). My theory is that Microsoft is artificially limiting other video sources in order to make Zune video the only source of 1080p.

Except that now ALL video sources passed through the renderer seem to be going through a 720p framebuffer... so even if you're playing a 1080p file, odds are that it's being downscaled, even for Zune. You can't even play a 1080p file locally (in any format) without it downscaling now. That's part of the bug with the video rendering on the new dashboard, so hopefully they'll fix the black level problem and that at the same time.

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post #566 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 05:32 PM
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Except that now ALL video sources passed through the renderer seem to be going through a 720p framebuffer... so even if you're playing a 1080p file, odds are that it's being downscaled, even for Zune. You can't even play a 1080p file locally (in any format) without it downscaling now. That's part of the bug with the video rendering on the new dashboard, so hopefully they'll fix the black level problem and that at the same time.

Really!! Even 1080P content from Zune is being downscaled to 720P? And then upscaled again to 1080P for output? How the heck did they let a bug like that through?

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post #567 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Except that now ALL video sources passed through the renderer seem to be going through a 720p framebuffer... so even if you're playing a 1080p file, odds are that it's being downscaled, even for Zune. You can't even play a 1080p file locally (in any format) without it downscaling now. That's part of the bug with the video rendering on the new dashboard, so hopefully they'll fix the black level problem and that at the same time.

Thats bananas.

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post #568 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 06:06 PM
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What kind of evidence do you have of it downscaling 1080P video to 720P? If it doesn't look as good to you ok but that doesn't mean that it is doing what is implied.

I definately notice the black level bug but I don't see any resolution problem myself.
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post #569 of 962 Old 12-22-2011, 06:29 PM
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I wonder why they got rid of Native display mode. I wouldn't have thought it was a lot of code to not modify the video...

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post #570 of 962 Old 12-23-2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betterdan View Post

What kind of evidence do you have of it downscaling 1080P video to 720P? If it doesn't look as good to you ok but that doesn't mean that it is doing what is implied.

I definately notice the black level bug but I don't see any resolution problem myself.

I don't have the source, however it is listed somwhere withing these Xbox threads...an article about the black level problem recently published...they also talk about the problems the Xbox 360 has with 1080 output (not being true 1080 resolution.)

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