The Official Xbox 360 Dashboard/Update Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #811 of 962 Old 03-31-2012, 05:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

So your saying for the Youtube app, there's a "HD" indicator with no indication of 720p or 1080p.

And your saying with the Zune player, there is a indication that indicates 1080p.

Correct.
Quote:


This may have been discussed before, however I'm now wondering if there have been videos streamed (recently) from the Zune app at 1080p? (Does anyone know the answer to that?)

As far as I know, all HD Zune video since it's been called Zune have always had 10 Mbps 1080p encodings. Before Zune it was called the XBL Video Marketplace and the HD titles were 6.6 Mbps 720p, with no available streaming (download only); some of those pre-Zune titles might be still be limited to 720p (I remember downloading 300 and Hard Candy this way; 300 now has a 1080p stream and Hard Candy has no streaming preview so I can't tell if there's 1080p or not).

Just go into the Zune player, pick a category (like New Release), pick something from the list and play the preview (select the window to blow it up full-screen) and press the right shoulder button on a pad or the INFO button on a remote to see the overlay.

I took your suggestion and searched for 1080 on YouTube and came up with a list of 1080p clips. Play one and press INFO on a remote to see the overlay; there doesn't seem to be a single button command on the pad to get the simple info overlay (the shoulder buttons are mapped to something else)--you can press START, choose the double up arrow for More Options and choose Info Pane.
Quote:


If so, is there any way to determine if the Xbox 360 Youtube app plays back videos encoded at 1080p at 1080p?

If I can find a 1080p clip on YouTube that's longer than 10 minutes, I can play it while monitoring bandwidth consumption and determine its 10 minute average bit rate when played at 1080p in the PC player and then determine its average bit rate when played on the Xbox. I'll see if I can find one.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #812 of 962 Old 03-31-2012, 05:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

CIf I can find a 1080p clip on YouTube that's longer than 10 minutes, I can play it while monitoring bandwidth consumption and determine its 10 minute average bit rate when played at 1080p in the PC player and then determine its average bit rate when played on the Xbox. I'll see if I can find one.

Did it, using a 16:10 long clip called "Skyrim TV #20" (or something like that), a demo of a role playing games called Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. It appears that 1080p in the PC player runs at around 4.8 Mbps and both 720p on the PC player and HD on the Xbox runs at about 2.8 Mbps, so I would say that the Xbox is playing the 720p version of the clip.

MS really seems to have decided that no streaming service other than their own Zune Video will stream 1080p to the Xbox.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #813 of 962 Old 03-31-2012, 08:01 PM
Member
 
Manic_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WI, USA
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I am also having terrible black levels in the HBO Go app. My other video apps look fine.
Another issue is that it randomly scrambles my playlist order, and has no way to sort the playlist.
Manic_D is offline  
post #814 of 962 Old 04-01-2012, 02:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
betterdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 815
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So is the Netflix black level problem solved now? Last I checked it still had crappy blacks.
betterdan is offline  
post #815 of 962 Old 04-01-2012, 10:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Hockeytown Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hockeytown MI
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Netflix looks like crap!!! Tried watching it last night and It's all washed out and now I have pretty bad lip sync.. this sucks...

Help a Family in need, Show Them We Care! Like it on Facebook and tweet it!
http://igg.me/p/171832?a=874546
Hockeytown Fan is offline  
post #816 of 962 Old 04-01-2012, 01:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mboojigga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Little Rock AFB, Arkansas
Posts: 8,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

Netflix looks like crap!!! Tried watching it last night and It's all washed out and now I have pretty bad lip sync.. this sucks...

The lip sync issue could be your surround system

The 5.0 is here
mboojigga is offline  
post #817 of 962 Old 04-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Hockeytown Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hockeytown MI
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

The lip sync issue could be your surround system

It only just started after the update. My setup Never had any A/V lag until now. I used my surround sound processor to to fix it, had to put it back 80 ms for the A/V to match. When I go play a game I have to remove the delay or else the audio is behind the video x.x

Help a Family in need, Show Them We Care! Like it on Facebook and tweet it!
http://igg.me/p/171832?a=874546
Hockeytown Fan is offline  
post #818 of 962 Old 04-01-2012, 06:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
I've had audio sync issues with Netflix streaming on some devices from time to time and if I hit the left arrow button to go back a little and start again it will usually sync up.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #819 of 962 Old 04-02-2012, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Did it, using a 16:10 long clip called "Skyrim TV #20" (or something like that), a demo of a role playing games called Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. It appears that 1080p in the PC player runs at around 4.8 Mbps and both 720p on the PC player and HD on the Xbox runs at about 2.8 Mbps, so I would say that the Xbox is playing the 720p version of the clip.

MS really seems to have decided that no streaming service other than their own Zune Video will stream 1080p to the Xbox.

Thank you for all your hard work. It's interesting to me it only takes 4.8 Mbps to stream 1080p (though compressed when compared to other sources.) Still, it's disappointing they've chosen to limit most internet services to 720p.


Have you or anyone else seen 1080p from the Zune service? If so, how does that look (while playing 1080p sources?)

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #820 of 962 Old 04-02-2012, 01:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mboojigga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Little Rock AFB, Arkansas
Posts: 8,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post


It only just started after the update. My setup Never had any A/V lag until now. I used my surround sound processor to to fix it, had to put it back 80 ms for the A/V to match. When I go play a game I have to remove the delay or else the audio is behind the video x.x

Gotcha

The 5.0 is here
mboojigga is offline  
post #821 of 962 Old 04-02-2012, 02:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Have you or anyone else seen 1080p from the Zune service? If so, how does that look (while playing 1080p sources?)

I explained how you can try it yourself in that post before the one that you quoted. You'll probably have to have something in excess of 9 Mbps available bandwidth on your connection to MS' servers to get it.

Forum member msgohan has an HDMI capture card which he's used to collect screenshots of matched frames from various different streaming services and BDs for comparison. If you don't have the bandwidth to check out 1080p Zune trailers on your machine, you can see a set of those screenshots which include some 1080p Zune video in this post. To compare, load them into separate tabs of a browser window (with no other tabs on the window), hit F11 to blow it up fullscreen and flip between them with CTRL-TAB. (I use Chrome for this because its fullscreen mode is truly fullscreen, with no borders whatsoever. I like to compare the facial close-ups because there's so much fine discernible detail in human faces). To my eye Zune video is the winner in that set (from some scenes of episodes of The Firm), slightly sharper than even VUDU.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #822 of 962 Old 04-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Member
 
keithj101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic_D View Post

I am also having terrible black levels in the HBO Go app. My other video apps look fine.
Another issue is that it randomly scrambles my playlist order, and has no way to sort the playlist.

Glad I'm not the only one having this strange black level issue. It's only happening in HBOGO. If you come across a solution, please post about it.
keithj101 is online now  
post #823 of 962 Old 04-04-2012, 09:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I explained how you can try it yourself in that post before the one that you quoted. You'll probably have to have something in excess of 9 Mbps available bandwidth on your connection to MS' servers to get it.

Forum member msgohan has an HDMI capture card which he's used to collect screenshots of matched frames from various different streaming services and BDs for comparison. If you don't have the bandwidth to check out 1080p Zune trailers on your machine, you can see a set of those screenshots which include some 1080p Zune video in this post. To compare, load them into separate tabs of a browser window (with no other tabs on the window), hit F11 to blow it up fullscreen and flip between them with CTRL-TAB. (I use Chrome for this because its fullscreen mode is truly fullscreen, with no borders whatsoever. I like to compare the facial close-ups because there's so much fine discernible detail in human faces). To my eye Zune video is the winner in that set (from some scenes of episodes of The Firm), slightly sharper than even VUDU.

I have the bandwidth, however I don't know if Zune is a service I would have to pay extra for. I don't want to get locked into a service I wouldn't use.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #824 of 962 Old 04-04-2012, 10:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I have the bandwidth, however I don't know if Zune is a service I would have to pay extra for. I don't want to get locked into a service I wouldn't use.

The Zune Video Marketplace on the Xbox is not a service that you have to sign up for. Anyone can casually run the Zune player and watch as many trailers as they want without paying a cent. It's only when you choose to rent or buy one that you're charged and you have to confirm that you accept the charge--it would be very difficult to do by accident.

Did you try comparing the screenshots I linked to?

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #825 of 962 Old 04-04-2012, 11:38 PM
Senior Member
 
iSean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HBO Go on Xbox 360 may be coming soon for Comcast customers
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/04/h...t-coming-soon/

Its about time they did this. Xfinity HBO lack a lot of shows.
iSean is offline  
post #826 of 962 Old 04-04-2012, 11:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The Zune Video Marketplace on the Xbox is not a service that you have to sign up for. Anyone can casually run the Zune player and watch as many trailers as they want without paying a cent. It's only when you choose to rent or buy one that you're charged and you have to confirm that you accept the charge--it would be very difficult to do by accident.

Did you try comparing the screenshots I linked to?

Ok, I finally tried the Zune player and saw the list of trailers. The trailers look gorgeous! And when I went to the "overlay," I could see most of them were at 1080p (at least the ones I picked.) There were a few that were only listed as HD...(I would assume those are 720p.)

The point is, they looked better than most anything I've seen on the Youtube site as those videos (even the best) look slightly compressed when compared to the videos on Zune.

I would say the trailers on Zune look close to the trailers I see on DirecTV channels such as HDNet (etc.) And of course Blu-ray looks even better.

Still for streaming, I was very impressed with what I saw. Over time as encodes for higher quality video compression and less bandwidth is needed (along with more powerful decoders...) it can only get better!



I don't think I've seen your screenshots. Unless it's different than what I started to go to...however even with virus scanners, I still won't download a .exe file. Sorry... If your talking about something different, I'd be happy to compare screen shots.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #827 of 962 Old 04-04-2012, 11:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Now I'll have to contact Micosoft and/or Youtube to see if they can start letting 1080p content play on the Xbox 360 from that service.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #828 of 962 Old 04-05-2012, 12:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Ok, I finally tried the Zune player and saw the list of trailers. The trailers look gorgeous! And when I went to the "overlay," I could see most of them were at 1080p (at least the ones I picked.) There were a few that were only listed as HD...(I would assume those are 720p.)

What do you mean "listed"? What titles were those?
Quote:
The point is, they looked better than most anything I've seen on the Youtube site as those videos (even the best) look slightly compressed when compared to the videos on Zune.

They should--1080p Zune video is encoded at twice the bit rate, about 10 Mbps versus YouTube's 4.8 Mbps (1080p Netflix and 1080p iTunes are also 4.8 Mbps).
Quote:
I don't think I've seen your screenshots. Unless it's different than what I started to go to...however even with virus scanners, I still won't download a .exe file. Sorry... If your talking about something different, I'd be happy to compare screen shots.

Go back and read the second paragraph of this post. No .exe's, just .png files hosted on ImageShack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Now I'll have to contact Micosoft and/or Youtube to see if they can start letting 1080p content play on the Xbox 360 from that service.

. Good luck with that . I truly believe that the lack of 1080p in any video other than Zune is completely deliberate. People have complained about it and AFAIK Microsoft hasn't responded (as they did respond to the black level complaints).

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #829 of 962 Old 04-05-2012, 10:39 PM
Senior Member
 
henhowc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 90025
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Received an update for hbo go tonight.
henhowc is offline  
post #830 of 962 Old 04-05-2012, 10:52 PM
Member
 
Manic_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WI, USA
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by henhowc View Post

Received an update for hbo go tonight.

Black level is good now.
Manic_D is offline  
post #831 of 962 Old 04-06-2012, 09:17 AM
Newbie
 
cra9eman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic_D View Post

Black level is good now.

Yup!
cra9eman is offline  
post #832 of 962 Old 04-06-2012, 11:52 AM
Senior Member
 
henhowc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 90025
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Now when is Netflix going to get their act together? Silly that the most used app is the one lagging behind still.
henhowc is offline  
post #833 of 962 Old 04-07-2012, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What do you mean "listed"? What titles were those?)

Those trailers as being listed as "HD" compared to trailers listed as "1080p" in the overlay display. The "HD" must mean 720p while "1080p" obviously means full HD.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #834 of 962 Old 04-07-2012, 04:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,974
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Those trailers as being listed as "HD" compared to trailers listed as "1080p" in the overlay display. The "HD" must mean 720p while "1080p" obviously means full HD.

That's true, but it's only a limit if there is no greyed out 1080p icon. The presence of the icon means that there is a 1080p encoding and that you're not getting it at the moment because the player's not able to keep its buffer full of that, either due to currently insufficient bandwidth on your connection to the server (as opposed to the rated speed of your service) or the server being too loaded to keep shoveling the higher bit rate content to you fast enough.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is offline  
post #835 of 962 Old 04-09-2012, 08:53 AM
Newbie
 
cra9eman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

It only just started after the update. My setup Never had any A/V lag until now. I used my surround sound processor to to fix it, had to put it back 80 ms for the A/V to match. When I go play a game I have to remove the delay or else the audio is behind the video x.x

I'm getting the sync problem as well. Also the sound seems screwed up. It reads as a DD 5.1 signal, but the dialog which should be coming from the Center channel seems spread between all the front speakers, and just sounds bad. All other Dolby Digital content on my 360 works perfect and sounds great.
cra9eman is offline  
post #836 of 962 Old 04-09-2012, 10:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 417
There is a new Netflix App update.

Quote:


Skip Forward/Skip Back allows you to move through movies quickly and between TV episodes easily. And with Kinect, just use your voice or the wave of your hand to activate this function.
Zoom function lets you enlarge letterboxed video content to full screen.
Better color contrast makes content more vivid and black levels darker.
Single sign on with cloud profile makes it easier to access your Netflix account on another Xbox, wherever you are.

http://majornelson.com/2012/04/09/ne...-on-xbox-live/
spid is online now  
post #837 of 962 Old 04-09-2012, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BFJ 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Bout time the Black levels were fixed...
BFJ 96 is online now  
post #838 of 962 Old 04-10-2012, 09:24 AM
Senior Member
 
henhowc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 90025
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 20
hahaha...I like how they are trying to tout these as new feature updates. This is simply an update that restores things were broken or inexplicably removed in the Metro update. Also, what's the point of the video preview that pops up when you hover over a title for a few seconds?
henhowc is offline  
post #839 of 962 Old 04-12-2012, 07:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mboojigga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Little Rock AFB, Arkansas
Posts: 8,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by henhowc View Post

hahaha...I like how they are trying to tout these as new feature updates. This is simply an update that restores things were broken or inexplicably removed in the Metro update. Also, what's the point of the video preview that pops up when you hover over a title for a few seconds?

It is exactly that a video preview. What needs to be explained about that lol?

The 5.0 is here
mboojigga is offline  
post #840 of 962 Old 04-12-2012, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mboojigga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Little Rock AFB, Arkansas
Posts: 8,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 466
HBOGo is now available to Comcast subscribers for the 360.

The 5.0 is here
mboojigga is offline  
Reply Xbox Area

Tags
Xbox 360 250gb Console With Kinect
Gear in this thread - 250gb by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off