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post #1 of 82 Old 01-16-2012, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, it seems like I am the latest victim of an acct hijack on xbox live. My wife called me this morning saying she could not log in to hulu on my xbox. I logged into live on my pc and saw that my microsoft points balance was like over 10000. i immediately started changing passwords and calling support. The problem is that I have the family accout and in order to remove my credit card and start an investigation, they have to shut off all 4 of my gamertags associated with the account. My kids are going to freak.

While watching the account, the points gradually started going down and stopped around 3250 all of them were FIFA purchases. My son was able to log into my account and change the settings to where the password had to be entered on each log in and since I changed the password, I am hoping the shennanigans are stopped for now, but boy am i steamed.

I had an old prepaid Mastercard with a zero balance. I changed my credit card info to that card and hopefully that will stop my problems and let me keep my gamertags open.

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post #2 of 82 Old 01-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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So you actually lost the points? There were two charges on my account for 1600 points each, but one was somehow blocked by Microsoft and the other was eventually reversed when I complained: no points went to anyone else. I had wondered what the plan was, but I must have been alerted soon enough to change the password and prevent the points from going elsewhere...

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post #3 of 82 Old 01-16-2012, 04:35 PM
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I'm a day one Xbox owner, yes the original. But the handling of this nonsense is unbelievable. Their customer service is nothing less than terrible. I swear I get a different Story everytime I call. I've had to resort to firing up my ps3. Yes I dusted off first. Today is two months... Unacceptable! They need to make changes to their security. Ok I'm done ranting... Its just so frustrating, I've never had a problem like this in my life. beware all change your passwords

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post #4 of 82 Old 01-20-2012, 06:01 PM
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wow that's crazy orange. Hope everything works out soon - need you on the battlefield!
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post #5 of 82 Old 01-21-2012, 05:53 PM
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Been reading too many instances of this going on. Fortunately for me the card that xbox has right now is cancelled because the wife left the card in the ATM some months ago and it snatched it up thankfully. So we have new cards and I haven't used them online yet and don't plan to anytime soon.

My live will be coming up soon but I have a sub card standing by. Don't want to put the numbers in now, for some reason it feels like I'm going to get gipped for putting them in too soon.

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post #6 of 82 Old 01-21-2012, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

Been reading too many instances of this going on. Fortunately for me the card that xbox has right now is cancelled because the wife left the card in the ATM some months ago and it snatched it up thankfully. So we have new cards and I haven't used them online yet and don't plan to anytime soon.

My live will be coming up soon but I have a sub card standing by. Don't want to put the numbers in now, for some reason it feels like I'm going to get gipped for putting them in too soon.

It will just add to whatever you have remaining for Live now. You don't lose anything. My live doesn't expire until 2014 because I bought mutiple Live cards at the time for $30.

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post #7 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 10:16 AM
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I got a friend request yesterday from a guy with a French sounding gamertag. I had never played with him, so I clicked on his profile and guess what, he was playing Fifa 12. Is there some reason someone that is trying to hack your account would friend you? Does it aid them in transfering items from fifa or something?

I have checked my account numerous times and just a few days ago I changed all of my passwords. I think I was able to avoid actually being hacked.

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post #8 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 12:41 PM
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I'm almost pushing 3 months without my gamertag, and do not see getting it back anytime soon. This whole process has been horrible and dealing with MS CS is been useless. Completely tired of not having my account back. I have read from others that it could take almost 6 months in some cases. I new that I never should have reported the 2000 gamer points that I lost and just change my password without MS intervention.

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post #9 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 12:58 PM
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orange that sucks dude... any idea how are they doing this? Did you have very easy to guess password or is there some sort of exploit they are using??

in anycase hopefully you get it sorted it out, good luck man

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post #10 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

I got a friend request yesterday from a guy with a French sounding gamertag. I had never played with him, so I clicked on his profile and guess what, he was playing Fifa 12. Is there some reason someone that is trying to hack your account would friend you? Does it aid them in transfering items from fifa or something?

Any information they can get about you might help them muscle their way into your account. They can enter any key terms (usernames, status phrases, games you've played, whatever) into a basic internet search function to look for points in common that then might point to things like a mailing address, email address, other user names, etc. It can narrow the field of possible passwords considerably. Makes hacking accounts that much easier.

As a similar (but more idiotic) example, I just got a friend request from someone today on PSN while playing SF3. Two seconds after the friend request, they asked to share PSN games! This new spate of hacking shows one of two things: 1) either security measures have improved and are forcing would-be hackers to use brute force, or 2) more and more people are entering the account hacking scene, many of whom are idiots preying on the idiocy of others. My money is on the second option. Regardless, the lesson here is that it would be smart to be more selective in how you choose your XBL, PSN, and Steam friends just like we're all already selective about Facebook friends. It might also be a good time to revisit your Xbox privacy settings (with particular attention to who can see your profile).

I hate to say it, but Nintendo's slow entry into a more open social system (like MS's and Sony's) is starting to look wiser by the month.

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post #11 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mark_j View Post

orange that sucks dude... any idea how are they doing this? Did you have very easy to guess password or is there some sort of exploit they are using??

in anycase hopefully you get it sorted it out, good luck man

I have no clue how they got in to my account. I have a fairly large alpha-numeric password that is unique to my Live acct. I do have my gamertag listed here and on my FB account but that is only half the equation and I can't recall anywhere that I have that particular e-mail address listed publicly. The fact that this has become such a regular occurance lately does mae me wonder how they are pulling this off on a large scale. It has reaffirmed my decision to never watch soccer and to hate on EA a little more.

I gave up on the complaint. they spent $135 of my money but I managed to retain about $30 dollars worth of MS points. I cut off all of my cable and satellite tv a few months back and only watch Hulu/Netflix at this point. The xboxes are the only way my kids have of watching TV in their rooms and it is the major source of entertainment for them. If I were to follow through with the complaint, they would suspend my acct and also the other 3 accts tied to my family acct until it is resolved. It is worth the $100 not to have to hear my kids whine for a couple of months until this is resolved. It p*sses me off to not get refunded for this without suspending my acct but I guess it is what it is. Not really MS fault but I am still all kinds of irked by the hassle.

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post #12 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_racer View Post

I have no clue how they got in to my account. I have a fairly large alpha-numeric password that is unique to my Live acct. I do have my gamertag listed here and on my FB account but that is only half the equation and I can't recall anywhere that I have that particular e-mail address listed publicly. The fact that this has become such a regular occurance lately does mae me wonder how they are pulling this off on a large scale. It has reaffirmed my decision to never watch soccer and to hate on EA a little more.

I gave up on the complaint. they spent $135 of my money but I managed to retain about $30 dollars worth of MS points. I cut off all of my cable and satellite tv a few months back and only watch Hulu/Netflix at this point. The xboxes are the only way my kids have of watching TV in their rooms and it is the major source of entertainment for them. If I were to follow through with the complaint, they would suspend my acct and also the other 3 accts tied to my family acct until it is resolved. It is worth the $100 not to have to hear my kids whine for a couple of months until this is resolved. It p*sses me off to not get refunded for this without suspending my acct but I guess it is what it is. Not really MS fault but I am still all kinds of irked by the hassle.

Have you tried calling your CC company to let them know what happened? A fraudulent purchase is a fraudulent purchase, so they should be able to reverse the charge while MS twiddles their fingers. You should be covered by your CC company in situations like this.

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post #13 of 82 Old 01-24-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_racer View Post

I have no clue how they got in to my account. I have a fairly large alpha-numeric password that is unique to my Live acct. I do have my gamertag listed here and on my FB account but that is only half the equation and I can't recall anywhere that I have that particular e-mail address listed publicly. The fact that this has become such a regular occurance lately does mae me wonder how they are pulling this off on a large scale. It has reaffirmed my decision to never watch soccer and to hate on EA a little more.

I gave up on the complaint. they spent $135 of my money but I managed to retain about $30 dollars worth of MS points. I cut off all of my cable and satellite tv a few months back and only watch Hulu/Netflix at this point. The xboxes are the only way my kids have of watching TV in their rooms and it is the major source of entertainment for them. If I were to follow through with the complaint, they would suspend my acct and also the other 3 accts tied to my family acct until it is resolved. It is worth the $100 not to have to hear my kids whine for a couple of months until this is resolved. It p*sses me off to not get refunded for this without suspending my acct but I guess it is what it is. Not really MS fault but I am still all kinds of irked by the hassle.

My account was hacked a few weeks back (I started the original thread). I have the same issue in that I have a family plan, and my kids play on the Xbox. When I called Xbox, the 1st person told me all accounts (bing, zune, etc) related to my windows live ID would be frozen, including my kids gamertags as they were associated with my tag. When I called back to give them my console ID and serial number, the person I spoke to told me, that only my account would be frozen, not the other family gamertags. She re-assured me this was the case, because before I called someone else had the same issue, and this was verified by the fraud department.

I was told it would take up to 25 business days to get the problem resolved. What was interesting, is that I got an email from the fraud department a couple of days latter telling me that they were taking control of the account, but I was still able to sign into Bing, Zune, and also into Xbox live. Exactly 5 busness days latter, I got another email stating that they determined that my account was fraudulently used, and suince I already had control of my account, nothing more had to be done, they gave me codes for the missing MS points (10600), and said they would refund my CC for the $19.99 for the other 1600 points.

I had to do was re-download my gamertag, and knock on wood, I have been in good shape since. Apparently the fraud department can lock out certain aspects of your windows live ID, and I suspect they just suspended the ability to buy/spend MS points while they did their investigation since I had control of the account. I was able to use my kids gamertags the full time and decided not to use my account till the investigation was over. It may be worth your while to pursue this, especially if they do not lock the other accounts.

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post #14 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Have you tried calling your CC company to let them know what happened? A fraudulent purchase is a fraudulent purchase, so they should be able to reverse the charge while MS twiddles their fingers. You should be covered by your CC company in situations like this.

Credit card company (Visa debit card) needed me to go through MS. If MS would not satisfy my claim then they would take over and then deal with MS themselves. I am sure that MS will deal with the problem apporopriately but I have been reluctant to shut down the acct. Seeing Deveng's experience though is making me reconsider and going ahead and filing the claim with MS. I really hate to let people get away with things and even though I know the thief will never be inconvenienced, I could sure use the money.

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post #15 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 09:11 AM
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Anyone speculate on how this was done. So far this seems like some how we were phished but I'm not sure where at.

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post #16 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 09:17 AM
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Anyone speculate on how this was done. So far this seems like some how we were phished but I'm not sure where at.

All the articles I've read have said that the passwords were brute forced from the windows live id login page(I think, possibly the ea site). Their account lock system doesn't work correctly so they could have a script that constantly tries to log in until they finally hit the right password. And since the username is your windows live id, which is just an email address, that's not hard to obtain.

I don't know if that is accurate as I've not seen anyone from Microsoft come out and say how it's done. I'm sure you could google it and find the exact method. These people that are doing this are not smart enough to come up with it on their own, so they have to be getting the info somewhere.

If they are brute forcing the windows live id, then their isn't much you can do about it other than making an absurdly hard password to hack. They'll always get the low hanging fruit first.

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post #17 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 10:23 AM
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I suppose its possible but I have a fairly strong password...that seems like a lot of work for how much this seems to be occurring.

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post #18 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by spinoza_43221 View Post

I suppose its possible but I have a fairly strong password...that seems like a lot of work for how much this seems to be occurring.

Script kiddies can run the scripts all day long with very little effort (look at the actions of Anonymous). It takes one smart person a little bit of work to enable thousands of morons to do this.

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post #19 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
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I suppose its possible but I have a fairly strong password...that seems like a lot of work for how much this seems to be occurring.

people's definition of "strong passwords" varies. it doesn't help when one site says a password is "strong" while another site says it's "medium".

a strong password is something like this 3KdU!fL3k5#e8b3%(EGa) which of course most people don't have.

you're supposed to avoid dictionary terms, avoid proper noun, etc. some people mistakenly think using foreign language terms is some sort of protection.

merely mixing in some upper case letters and numbers make a dramatic difference in terms of blunting brute force methods.

I don't think brute force methods is a big method. Most hacking is not done at the technology level. It's done at the social level (working at a company, phishing customer support, phishing emails, etc.).
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post #20 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 11:20 AM
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Since I have changed all accounts using it I'll tell you what mine was

HAlloween312#@!

Is that reasonable..or would a password like that be considered low fruit for a brute force attack.

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post #21 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza_43221 View Post

Since I have changed all accounts using it I'll tell you what mine was

HAlloween312#@!

Is that reasonable..or would a password like that be considered low fruit for a brute force attack.

I would say that is like a mid range. They say if you are going to use real words, even with numbers in place of letters, the best thing to do is pick 3 or 4 random words and put them together, then use the numbers and symbols too.

So something like m@joRn0oseBow3lFr0wn (major noose bowel frown). It's 4 words you could easily remember, but tough to brute force.

I prefer to use a service like last pass to generate and store my passwords. I know their are risks involved in that also, but I'm willing to take them. They also don't store the passwords on the site, just an encrypted version. You have to have the hash key to be able to decrypt. $12 a year and they have windows, linux, mac, and android clients.

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post #22 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza_43221 View Post

Since I have changed all accounts using it I'll tell you what mine was

HAlloween312#@!

Is that reasonable..or would a password like that be considered low fruit for a brute force attack.

One general suggestion is to not just suffix the word with numbers/special characters, but to also prefix it, or even place one in the middle of the word.

xkcd also covered this, and pointed out that using just several normal dictionary words together is both easy to remember and very difficult to bruteforce. It also covered what has a decent chance of being at work here: password reuse. I supposed another option is that one of the various gamertag sites out there or Android/iOS apps has gone rogue or leaked this data in some way.
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post #23 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 02:06 PM
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i assume 312 is an area code? so you live in Illinois? Halloween is a dictionary term. that's 2 no-no's. it's good that you used some symbols and mixed upper and lower case. it's not a weak password but it's not a strong one either.

and using numerous words concatenated together is not a good option for several reasons, but chiefly, many sites have limits on how many characters you can have for a password.

but seriously, brute force is not a terribly efficient method, especially over the Internet. you want to taste what brute force entails? download one of those RAR password removers and run them. they use various brute force methods to determine and remove the password. You'll be running your 6 core Intel i7 CPU at 100% for weeks/months/years and still not come up with the password.

of course, it all depends on the complexity of the password and random luck.
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post #24 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

and using numerous words concatenated together is not a good option for several reasons, but chiefly, many sites have limits on how many characters you can have for a password.

That's really the only reason. Comparing to spinoza's posted password, there is significantly more entropy in a few common English words put together (the spaces also add entropy, so use them). And his password is even on the high side for what most people use.
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post #25 of 82 Old 01-25-2012, 04:24 PM
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Create a phrase like "this is my new password I hope you can't guess it" and take the first letter of each word. Say the phrase as you type it in, won't take long to remember it.

timnpihycgi

Capital letters, numbers and symbols will all make it a pretty strong password. Lot of times you can't use symbols though.


7imnP1hycg!

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post #26 of 82 Old 01-26-2012, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally went through with the complaint with XboxLive. They are going to start the investigation. The support person I spoke with told me they had received an update on this type of issue yesterday and the resolution time is now 3 days. Much better than the 30 days I was originally quoted.

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post #27 of 82 Old 01-26-2012, 07:20 AM
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Good luck, orange!
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post #28 of 82 Old 01-26-2012, 07:36 AM
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Just to give you an idea but it took roughly 2 weeks for them to resolve the case with me.

Still irritated though. I was giving my boys the 'stink eye' for the first few days till I realized how possible this was and I had to cancel my credit card even though the one on my accounts was aged. There was no history on my console of the games purchased being downloaded on my console so it quickly became clear to me that I was hacked.

Still burns me up though.

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post #29 of 82 Old 01-26-2012, 10:25 AM
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Eesh crazy orange. You guys have a lot of patience. I don't know that I'd be able to wait past a week before blastic my CC company about fraudulent charges trying to sic them on MS. Good luck!!
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post #30 of 82 Old 01-26-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_racer View Post

Finally went through with the complaint with XboxLive. They are going to start the investigation. The support person I spoke with told me they had received an update on this type of issue yesterday and the resolution time is now 3 days. Much better than the 30 days I was originally quoted.

Wish that was true in my case.

Come join our adult gaming community at www.syndicatedgaming.net


XBL and Steam: diehardcubfn
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