Would you still buy an XBOX 720 if you can't play used games? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Would you still buy an XBOX 720 if you can't play used games?
Yes 0 0%
No 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cubdenno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cham-Bana Illinois
Posts: 1,449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 55
If there is just a single Xbox or rather game system in a residense then DD content is generally fine. But if you run more than one (in my family we have 5 with 4 of them in one house.) then the inability to share games makes it financially unviable for the majority of people.

My expenditures toward COD MW3 this year basically pissed me off. 4 copies for my household so that my family could play together. We bought 1 Skyrim and we have shared that between 3 of us. But with two kids wanting to play it, it hs caused some fights. I refuse to buy more than one copy though.

Now if they priced the games like they do for the majority of XBLA games ~1200 MS points, I could give the DD format justification. Otherwise a lot of games we have bought in the past would have just not been purchased.

Hopefully the XBOX in the future will avoid this pitfall. I see that that particular model will end up biting them in the long run with loss of sales of games and hardware.

XBL-Steelhouse1

"No one wants to fight the naked guy."
cubdenno is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bbexperience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

If there is just a single Xbox or rather game system in a residense then DD content is generally fine. But if you run more than one (in my family we have 5 with 4 of them in one house.) then the inability to share games makes it financially unviable for the majority of people.

My expenditures toward COD MW3 this year basically pissed me off. 4 copies for my household so that my family could play together. We bought 1 Skyrim and we have shared that between 3 of us. But with two kids wanting to play it, it hs caused some fights. I refuse to buy more than one copy though.

Now if they priced the games like they do for the majority of XBLA games ~1200 MS points, I could give the DD format justification. Otherwise a lot of games we have bought in the past would have just not been purchased.

Hopefully the XBOX in the future will avoid this pitfall. I see that that particular model will end up biting them in the long run with loss of sales of games and hardware.

I'm totally against an all DD model (as has been beaten to death elsewhere) but they could offer a discount for a multiple license pack or have the first license be full price and have a discount on future licenses or even just allow a limited number of multiple same-house installs ala Windows or Office.

They won't, but they COULD.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

"If the Playstation and Xbox are like the Bloods and the Crips, then the Wii is whatever gang Sha Na Na was in" - Christian Finnegan
bbexperience is offline  
post #93 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:39 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,517
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 1392
Doesn't PSN let you download everything to like 5 consoles?

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #94 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
confidenceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Doesn't PSN let you download everything to like 5 consoles?

Not anymore. They recently changed their policy to allow for only 2 shares rather than 5. But anything you purchased prior to the policy change still allows the full 5.

Quote:


If that's the case, their lawyers suck.

Like I said, I have no idea if there's a standard agreement with publishers on XBLA, and if there is, what it looks like. But judging by what's happened over on the other HD console and their portable, it looks like it's possible for licensing agreements for downloadable content to be tied to the console's lifespan. Makes sense from a publishing perspective. They want to avoid a situation where someone purchases a game now and that it stays active and playable on all future consoles going forward. That would interfere with any updated versions, any re-releases, etc. We also know that publishers have the power to pull their content at any time. There may be limits (again, outlined in the agreement with MS), but we've already seen a handful of things pulled for a variety of reasons.

Long story short: backwards compatibility for DD and DLC has more to do with publishers than with MS.

PSN & XBL ID: drop me a private message
confidenceman is offline  
post #95 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 10:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
onlysublime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Doesn't PSN let you download everything to like 5 consoles?

It's been cut back to 2.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-to-2-devices/

"Sony is introducing a new PSN usage policy which will reduce the number of systems on which a downloaded game can be played from five to two.

"The rule applies to PS3 and PSP games purchased after November 18, 2011 but doesn't apply to games bought before the rule comes into effect."
onlysublime is offline  
post #96 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 12:52 PM
 
spyder696969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of many wives
Posts: 9,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

...My expenditures toward COD MW3 this year basically pissed me off. 4 copies for my household so that my family could play together...

Imagine not getting ANYTHING back when the next CoD comes out in 8 months.

That said, with CoD or any other game where multiplayer is the main attraction (thus having your whole family online toegether all at once) it's reasonable to assume that each person needs their own disc to play at the same time.

However, it's unreasonable for MS to REQUIRE 4 copies if; 2 kids only play on the weekend, you only play at night, and someone else only plays during the day, and none of you are interested or capable of playing at the same time.

Games like Skyrim are ones where I could see multi-purchase as well. We have 3 in our house that play it. At 400 hours, $60 is a small price to pay in terms of entertainment value. However, something like Batman, Assassin's Creed, Crysis, Gears of War, or any other game that one of us is going to blaze through in a day should let us pass it along without another $60 being thrown into the pot. $10 per hour of playtime is pretty damn steep compared to $60 per 400 hours (a paltry 15 cents per hour! ) for Skyrim.
spyder696969 is offline  
post #97 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Member
 
bigbeefxy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Games like Skyrim are ones where I could see multi-purchase as well. We have 3 in our house that play it.

This is a total non-issue for MS or anyone else. Most households do not need more than one copy of a 1-player game for everyone to share. I believe you can also play MW3 with four players on split screen. Only in limited circumstances would you need a 2nd disc. Why would MS cater to such a scenario?

Frankly, I don't see the need to purchase multiple copies of a game when two or three people can share and take turns. Unless you are wealthy and can easily afford it. Even then, I wouldn't want my household (with youth) to wallow in a sense of entitlement.
bigbeefxy1 is offline  
post #98 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 02:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
oo7evan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I said probably not, but this is a pointless discussion anyways. There is zero chance MS fully implements this for their next generation console.

XBL: dibs ODDJOB
Wiii: Fibonacci-sequence-like numbers
oo7evan is offline  
post #99 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 02:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
onlysublime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 497
I buy multiple copies for system link games if they're affordable (in other words, used).

System link is the best! Minimal latency and your own screen (hate splitscreen with a passion). Great for that LAN atmosphere with consoles (reminds me of my PC LAN college days).
Bikerduck likes this.
onlysublime is offline  
post #100 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 07:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mproper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Palmyra, PA
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I don't really buy used games enough it would bother me that much (I'm typically several months behind in my game purchasing anyways, so I'm just buying new copies at the reduced rates). Although I do use Goozex here and there for a used game.

Of course, any future console decision is really going to be dependent on what the competition is doing. The consoles (outside of rampant fanboyism) are pretty much interchangeable for about 90% of games anyways, so if the PS4 lets me play used games and the 720 doesn't, then I'll go PS4 (all other things being basically equal).

I've always owned all consoles, but the current gen is probably the last time I will. Not enough time left in my life to game so owning more than one doesn't make sense for me in the future.

So while used games will be a consideration in my console decision, it won't be a major one for me personally.
mproper is offline  
post #101 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 08:14 PM
Member
 
Metalbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Washington state
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Did x-box say this is a possibillity for the new system?
where did this come from?

FW 15.3 PSB, Now where did I put my beer?
Metalbender is offline  
post #102 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 08:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

This may not be in Microsoft's hands. It all depends on what the licensing agreement looks like for things like XBLA titles, DLC, Games on Demand, etc. If I were to guess, I'd say that most of those licenses are only good for the 360, which would mean renegotiating with third party publishers for much of what we already have on our harddrives--which in turn means the possibility of dropped support for many titles (just look at what's happening with Vita's spotty support of PSP titles purchased through PSN). As for disc-based titles, I think the licensing works differently, such that as long as MS releases a machine that will play those discs, the original license agreements still hold up.

I'm sure Microsoft is prepared for that eventuality and that they wouldn't need to renegoitiate.

After all, every bit of DLC on the original Xbox for games that were made backwards compatibile was still there on the 360. So there's some precedent, renegoitiating or not, of digital content on an earlier Xbox platform being available on the successor. And let's say, for sake of argument since we don't know, that they did have to do a lot of behind the scenes work to negoitiate with publishers to make their digital content available to backwards compatible Xbox 360 users. I would say that would all but guarantee that they had the foresight to prepare for that eventuality with Xbox 360 content from day 1 after the warmup they had with digital content on the Xbox and the prerelease work they had getting Xbox games working on the 360.

It's like music rights for tv shows. It was common for tv shows up until a few years ago to not have home video rights written into the contract for a possible release, since they never had any thought to releasing them in season sets to home video. Been a regular problem with DVD releases of earlier shows for years now (And a big enough problem to cripple several popular releases, such as The Odd Couple, or prevent them from coming out in the first place (The later seasons of WKRP after the backlash at the hack job they did due to music rights to season 1).

But now that we're well into the DVD age where season sets of television shows are common, most any television show these days has permission to utilize the music in a home video release the moment they acquire a license from a music publisher (And rights to include it digitally via downloading or streaming). Long gone are the days where they'd just have rights to utilize that content when broadcasting a show on television.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #103 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:17 PM
Member
 
bigbeefxy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

The consoles (outside of rampant fanboyism) are pretty much interchangeable for about 90% of games anyways

With the Wii U coming soon, I believe you will be correct for the "next gen." And outside of Forza, Xbox has the worst exclusives out of the three this gen. I never really saw the appeal of Xbox 360 over PS3.
bigbeefxy1 is offline  
post #104 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeefxy1 View Post

With the Wii U coming soon, I believe you will be correct for the "next gen." And outside of Forza, Xbox has the worst exclusives out of the three this gen. I never really saw the appeal of Xbox 360 over PS3.

Xbox 360 has lots of nice exclusives, from mainstream AAA hits to near countless quality niche titles in many genres.

If you're a shooter fan, for instance, the Xbox 360 is almost your only choice this generation unless you just stuck with PSOne games (And PS2 if your PS3 is BC). From new entries in classic series like Raiden to digital and compilation rereleases of many classics to a dozen or more modern bullet hell shooters like Mushihimesama Futari, Espgaluda 2, Guwange, the Deathsmiles games, Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets, Otomedius Excellent, Bullet Soul, Eschatos, and I'm sure others that I can't recall at the moment.

Of course, the PS3 has its fair share of major exclusives. Team Ico's work, Heavy Rain, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, etc. Probably the biggies where I feel like the 360 doesn't have a corresponding game of similar quality like I wish it did would be the upcoming Team Ico game and the Uncharted releases.

Best if everyone got both.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #105 of 169 Old 02-14-2012, 09:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
confidenceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I'm sure Microsoft is prepared for that eventuality and that they wouldn't need to renegoitiate.

You're assuming that Microsoft even wants this to happen. Consumers do, but that definitely doesn't mean MS does. They stopped bothering with Xbox BC pretty quickly once they and publishers realized they could turn a profit by selling that old content again. MS has the worst record of all console manufacturers at being BC friendly.

Quote:


After all, every bit of DLC on the original Xbox for games that were made backwards compatibile was still there on the 360. So there's some precedent, renegoitiating or not, of digital content on an earlier Xbox platform being available on the successor.

You can't really compare the two since DLC as we know it wasn't really prevalent until very recently. So the only "precedent" we have is what's happening on other current platforms.

The big fear for publishers (in the gaming industry, in the music industry, in the movie industry, etc) in the digital age is that they'll lose the ability to repackage and resell content. The games industry is slightly different in that old content is hard to sell as well as new content, but that doesn't prevent them from reselling it in "HD" or in other upgraded and updated formats. If it becomes expected that we get that stuff in perpetuity, then publishers lose that possible revenue stream.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'd call it a 50/50 chance at best. More likely is that we'll get some publishers who are okay with us carrying over our 360 content onto the 720/Nextbox, and some who refuse.

PSN & XBL ID: drop me a private message
confidenceman is offline  
post #106 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 03:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

You're assuming that Microsoft even wants this to happen.

I wouldn't say I was assuming they are. I was just assuming they were prepared for that eventuality just in case they were to make the Xbox 360's successor be backwards compatible. The same reason Microsoft probably has control over www.haloX.com for who knows how many sequels just to ensure they have the url when and if they need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

They stopped bothering with Xbox BC pretty quickly once they and publishers realized they could turn a profit by selling that old content again. MS has the worst record of all console manufacturers at being BC friendly.

The system has to be backwards compatible for them to sell that content again. You won't find an Xbox Original that wasn't already on the backwards compatibility list (A program that really didn't go over well and was killed off quickly after just a dozen or so rereleases).

I suspect they killed off BC for the commonly cited reasons. We were several years into the 360's lifecycle at a time when the transition process was nearing completion and most people had transitioned to playing all Xbox 360 games. And their concentration on the easiest to emulate games meant that what was left were going to be the most difficult games to emulate (Such as RalliSport Challenge 2) which meant the work was going to be even more expensive. Thus, it was an easy decision to pull the plug.

Also remember that backwards compatibility is there for a reason beyond a goodwill gesture and those reasons just didn't evaporate. Some reasons include...

-It encourages people to be early adapters since they can keep playing their existing library (Such as the upcoming Halo 4).
-It spurs people to not ignore excellent late 360 releases just because they're playing on the 720 (Especially important this time since the 360 appears like it will have some significant life in it after the 720 is released, unlike last time around).
-It's an incentive for the people that weren't 360 owners since they'll be able to play some games they missed out on the last time around.
-It allows the 360's library to fill some gaps in the 720's library early on until it establishes itself.
-It provides financial encouragement to early adapters since they'll know they have some game choices beyond just $60 (Or maybe more) Xbox 720 releases to play after their expensive investment in the hardware.
-It's a selling point that many people like to have even if they have no plans to use it or will rarely take advantage of it.

Those are all financial incentives for Microsoft just like selling Xbox 360 classics digitally would be since it encourages the 720's install base to grow more rapidly and it encourages software sales of 360 content, such as the upcoming Halo 4, even after someone has moved on to the 720 (I bet a substantial number of Halo 2 disc were sold to Xbox 360 owners, for instance). Plus, full compatibility with Xbox 360 discs and existing downloads doesn't stop them from selling 360 content digitally to 720 owners (Look at PSN and all those PSOne downloads on the PS3, a system capable of playing greater than 99% of all PSOne disc).

Plus, people aren't going to be pleased to find that they have to pay again for a $60 Xbox 360 Games on Demand release that they already bought on their account on the 360. They managed it on the 360 for Xbox content only because relatively few ever bought any DLC on the system and those that did usually only had a download or two. So there wasn't much uproar. How many people these days have hundreds of dollars worth of 360 downloads? I bet quite a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'd call it a 50/50 chance at best. More likely is that we'll get some publishers who are okay with us carrying over our 360 content onto the 720/Nextbox, and some who refuse.

I'd wager we get near 100% of the downloads currently existing if the successor is backwards compatible (Which I think is the real question mark). Hoping I'll be the one that is right.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #107 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 06:13 AM
Member
 
bigbeefxy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

Xbox 360 has lots of nice exclusives, from mainstream AAA hits to near countless quality niche titles in many genres.

If you're a shooter fan, for instance, the Xbox 360 is...

I feel like the 360 doesn't have a corresponding game of similar quality like I wish it did would be the upcoming Team Ico game and the Uncharted releases.

That's exactly my point. Xbox 360 lacks exclusives. Who cares if it has 50 exclusive FPS games. That's like saying "I'm going to make my own console and it will have 50 different football games, so if you like football, you'll love my console."

Xbox has Forza, Kinect, Alan Wake, Fable and Gears of War. I can't even bring me self to putting Halo on this list.

Most people do not buy Xbox thinking, "Yeah, look at all these obscure, niche FPS games." Only Playstation and Nintendo have a respectable exclusives library.
bigbeefxy1 is offline  
post #108 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 07:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
confidenceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I'd wager we get near 100% of the downloads currently existing if the successor is backwards compatible (Which I think is the real question mark). Hoping I'll be the one that is right.

I actually agree completely with all of your points, I just a possible problem might come from publishers, not Microsoft. It makes great financial sense from MS's perspective, unless they weigh it against the potential cost of renegotiating licensing contracts (i.e., shelling out dough to keep publishers happy).

But if those contracts apply to XBL/XBLA and not to the 360, then we'll be free and clear.

PSN & XBL ID: drop me a private message
confidenceman is offline  
post #109 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deveng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 34
My suspicion is that MS may take the route that Steam currently employs. It is probably the only way to make games incompatable with the used game market. Buy the game or download it from wherever, you will need an activation code/key, that when activated, ties the game to the user ID (ie steam account name). Then when you want to play the game, you have to play it through Steam. Go ahead and sell your disc (after you install it to the HDD), but it will be useless to anyone else without an activation key. I don't hear people screaming and yelling at Stream for this model. In actual fact, I hear people compliment Stream all the time. Only one user is allowed to use the game when it is activated on Steam. No one is trying to sell their used games on Steam (at least that I know of). Live is no different. As a matter of fact, once you finish playing the game, you are welcome to delete the game from your HDD, but in the future you can always download it again, as you have a valid activation key. It will work like the current marketplace does.

My question to those that voted no is why is the gaming industry treated differently than anything else? When you buy a copy of windows or office etc, you get 1 liscense to use their software. This is not transferable to multiple computers at home. The same applies to games. Because of the 'convieniece' of selling discs and the limited space on HDD, it made sense to have this model (disc). However in this day and age, the disc is just a transfer medium to your console, and the game will be on the HDD.

Just look at the whole model of Live. It is making people more and more dependant on internet, and the minority of people that have an Xbox do not have an internet connection. This does not mean you need to have a gold account, but you will need a silver account. Similarly, all the added features that are being implimented every year, are just precursors to what the next Xbox will be. The fact that they 'allowed' games to be copied to the HDD was more of a test to see haw they can implment it and keep the DRM in effect, not to make the DVD drive less loud or let screen load times be less (though those are bonus features). If you want all the social features that are on Live, you have to have the internet.

I personnally hate what EA does with there 'online' pass garbage with their current games, but that type of model is going to be more common. People complain, but I have not seen that hurt sales of their games like Madden, Fifa, Battlefield, MAss Effect etc, etc.

I think I posted a thread a couple years back. Inifinity Ward had all sorts of statistics for CoD4, how many people played the game, how many people played the campaign (they could figure this out by looking at achievements), etc. They had something like 16 million unique gamertags (at that time) that played the game (they cannot track those that did not have Live), but had only sold 8 million copies of the game. Considering that it is very hard to play pirated copies of games on Live, this meant that they lost an enourmous amount of sales to the used game market. Sure, there may be multiple users in a family that play on the same console and thus have different gamertags, but I really think that is not a huge number and could be cancelled by the number of people who did not have an internet connection and are not accounted.If the trend is 1:2 (just look at the pole, it is almost tied), then even though I am the consumer and do not care about big corporations, I can see the problem that the used game market is creating. If affects all of us in the end, with regards to the quality of games.

Xbox and PS3 Gamertag = Xerostomia
Wii = I'm too lazy to get the number
deveng is offline  
post #110 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 01:45 PM
 
spyder696969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of many wives
Posts: 9,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by deveng View Post

My suspicion is that MS may take the route that Steam currently employs...

I think I posted a thread a couple years back. Inifinity Ward had all sorts of statistics for CoD4, how many people played the game, how many people played the campaign (they could figure this out by looking at achievements), etc. They had something like 16 million unique gamertags (at that time) that played the game (they cannot track those that did not have Live), but had only sold 8 million copies of the game. Considering that it is very hard to play pirated copies of games on Live, this meant that they lost an enourmous amount of sales to the used game market. Sure, there may be multiple users in a family that play on the same console and thus have different gamertags, but I really think that is not a huge number and could be cancelled by the number of people who did not have an internet connection and are not accounted.If the trend is 1:2 (just look at the pole, it is almost tied), then even though I am the consumer and do not care about big corporations, I can see the problem that the used game market is creating. If affects all of us in the end, with regards to the quality of games.

Not all 16 million people would have shelled out $60-$70 for the game on launch day, even if used games did not exist. If companies want to keep their sales numbers up, price drops had better be relative to the time slope since launch.

Steam is VERY competitive with their pricing, particularly as time goes by. Others, not at all.
spyder696969 is offline  
post #111 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 02:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mproper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Palmyra, PA
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
And the extra aren't all used games. I have 3 gamertags in my house playing the same disc, unless you want to make the argument that my wife and kid are playing a 'used' copy.

And no, I wouldn't have bought three copies of the game if it was limited to one gamertag per retail copy.
mproper is offline  
post #112 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 03:12 PM
 
spyder696969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of many wives
Posts: 9,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by deveng View Post

...there may be multiple users in a family that play on the same console and thus have different gamertags, but I really think that is not a huge number and could be cancelled by the number of people who did not have an internet connection and are not accounted...

How many people buy CoD to play the campaign only? 0.0000000000147%?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

And the extra aren't all used games. I have 3 gamertags in my house playing the same disc, unless you want to make the argument that my wife and kid are playing a 'used' copy.

And no, I wouldn't have bought three copies of the game if it was limited to one gamertag per retail copy.

Exactly. Plus, he's referring to CoD. How many kids play CoD? (I bet it's 16 million! )

Not really, but if daddy lets junior play while he's at work, or 2 kids share a disc, or...those instances are incredibly common and make up big, big numbers, imo. Plus, if the ratio is indeed 2:1 in terms of "users" to discs purchased, we must also tally in; those that got the banhammer for cheating, changed their username for whatever reason, tried it for 30 seconds and hated it, used a temp account to cheat or just to be an asshat, used a secondary id, etc.
spyder696969 is offline  
post #113 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by deveng View Post

My suspicion is that MS may take the route that Steam currently employs.

Millions of console owners, including many Xbox 360 owners, have never taken their consoles online. Many don't even have the choice at this time to have broadband internet.

That's a guarantee that at least for this upcoming console generation, their solution, if there is one, to the situation they want to portray through their propaganda as a problem, won't be like Steam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

How many people buy CoD to play the campaign only? 0.0000000000147%?

I actually pick them up cheap years later for the single player campaign. No interest in a console multiplayer FPS after years of PC games, although for slower paced single player campaigns, a gamepad doesn't bother me much.

Not that I think you were incorrect. I'm quite sure I'm an anomaly when it comes to that series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeefxy1 View Post

That's exactly my point. Xbox 360 lacks exclusives. Who cares if it has 50 exclusive FPS games. That's like saying "I'm going to make my own console and it will have 50 different football games, so if you like football, you'll love my console."

Xbox has Forza, Kinect, Alan Wake, Fable and Gears of War. I can't even bring me self to putting Halo on this list.

Most people do not buy Xbox thinking, "Yeah, look at all these obscure, niche FPS games." Only Playstation and Nintendo have a respectable exclusives library.

I can find no shortage of non FPS exclusives on the 360. And I can find many areas on the PS3 where it is lacking compared to the 360, just as I can the other way around.

Also, everything I listed above were shooters, or often called "shoot em' ups" or " shmups" in today's era of so many FPS games that has somewhat stolen the genre name away. I wasn't listing obscure 1st or 3rd person shooters there so I don't see how my post reaffirms yours when I was listing games like Raiden IV. I can find many genres and types of games where the 360 has some excellent exclusives, from AAA mainstream games, to genres that are today considered niche like the particular example I used to illustrate my point.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #114 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Sorry for the double post.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #115 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 04:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeefxy1 View Post

With the Wii U coming soon, I believe you will be correct for the "next gen." And outside of Forza, Xbox has the worst exclusives out of the three this gen. I never really saw the appeal of Xbox 360 over PS3.

To be fair in 2005-2007 most of the current 3rd party franchises were 360 (and maybe PC) exclusives.

Oblivion
Bioshock
Saints Row
Ghost Recon
Rainbow Six
Mass Effect
etc.

One by one they made their way to the PS3 as the install base grew. Just recently 2010-2011 MS starting getting rid of 1st party devs and went Kinect with what they had left outside of Halo and Forza.

Now playing: Madden, Diablo 3, First Light, PvZ: GW
Recently Finished: Watch Dogs
PSN & XBL: Scuzzlebutt33
tgable is offline  
post #116 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Just recently 2010-2011 MS starting getting rid of 1st party devs and went Kinect with what they had left outside of Halo and Forza.

They dumped much of their first and second party development during the last days of the Xbox and the early days of the 360.

What did they dump back in 2010-2011? I suppose Bungie got their freedom, but with Microsoft keeping the Halo franchise and it seemingly being in decent hands where it currently is, not much of a big deal more than likely. The series is pretty formulaic by this point so I suspect some new blood, which can follow past precedent while injecting some of their own fresh ideas into it, will be welcomed when Halo 4 is released.
Leo_Ames is offline  
post #117 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 06:01 PM
Member
 
bigbeefxy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

To be fair in 2005-2007...

One by one they made their way to the PS3 as the install base grew

It's not really an exclusive if you are the only console in town. Meaning, the Wii wasn't considered for many 3rd party publishing because of the lack of power. And PS3 came out just around the end of your time frame. Xbox 360 was first to the market this gen.

Can we all stop pretending that MS has a library of games that make us want to buy an Xbox specifically? Next gen, I really only plan to get a Wii U and maybe PS4. MS will have to wow me.
bigbeefxy1 is offline  
post #118 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 08:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,517
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeefxy1 View Post


It's not really an exclusive if you are the only console in town. Meaning, the Wii wasn't considered for many 3rd party publishing because of the lack of power. And PS3 came out just around the end of your time frame. Xbox 360 was first to the market this gen.

Can we all stop pretending that MS has a library of games that make us want to buy an Xbox specifically? Next gen, I really only plan to get a Wii U and maybe PS4. MS will have to wow me.

Halo, forza, fable, gears, left 4 dead, mass effect (for a time), most XBLA games, every kinect game. It might not tickle your pickle but the exclusive list is pretty solid. Not to mention that especially for the first few years, most third party games played better on it, but they've narrowed that gap.

The only games I still own for my ps3 are uncharted and god of war. Killzone, resistance, LBP, GT5 and MGS4 were all disappointments to me.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #119 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 09:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
confidenceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Halo, forza, fable, gears, left 4 dead, mass effect (for a time), most XBLA games, every kinect game. It might not tickle your pickle but the exclusive list is pretty solid. Not to mention that especially for the first few years, most third party games played better on it, but they've narrowed that gap.

The only games I still own for my ps3 are uncharted and god of war. Killzone, resistance, LBP, GT5 and MGS4 were all disappointments to me.

For me, it all comes down to genre. Shooters, WRPGs, and shmups I play on 360. Adventure games, fighting games, and Japanese action games I play on PS3.

And what's wrong with you that you were disappointed by GT5 and MGS4?! Two of the best games of the generation!

PSN & XBL ID: drop me a private message
confidenceman is offline  
post #120 of 169 Old 02-15-2012, 11:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Leo_Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Metal Gear Solid HD Collection seems to have done well. Wouldn't surprise me a year from now to be able to count Metal Gear Solid 4 as a multiplatform release rather than a PS3 exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

And what's wrong with you that you were disappointed by GT5 and MGS4?! Two of the best games of the generation!

I'm not a Metal Gear Solid fan so I can't speak about why he didn't care for that one (Although it wouldn't surprise me to find out that he wanted more game and less movie), but I could see why someone would be underwhelmed by GT5.

After GT1-4, all the promises, the long destation period, the $40 paid demo, and with what Turn 10 delivered in Forza 2 and 3 while gamers were waiting for GT5, I think people expected something amazing and highly polished. Instead they got something more plain than they expected that has been very uneven in quality that has required and continues to require extensive patching to try to get it to somewhat resemble people's expectations (Do we even have leaderboards yet?). Especially in light of Forza 4 less than a year later, I can see room for disappointment with GT5.

People got a good Gran Turismo, not the great one that they had expected. When it comes to a series like Gran Turismo, Zelda, and and so on, that's a real disappointment for a game to not fully live up to expectations. Particularly with the long development period and being the game to usher the series into the HD and online age, people's expectations were extremely high.
Leo_Ames is offline  
Reply Xbox Area

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off