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post #541 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Elite not getting included in the Hardened or Prestige editions is crazyness. Behold, the greed of Activision! tongue.gif

I will be dropping Elite then unless I can find a deal for MS Points to keep it cheap otherwise its a waste for me.

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post #542 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by GCS View Post

I will be dropping Elite then unless I can find a deal for MS Points to keep it cheap otherwise its a waste for me.

I would tend to agree. The only benefit is getting the map packs early but I'm not sure that's worth $50 or whatever they're going to charge this year.

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post #543 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 09:47 AM
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Well, the last two games had 4 packs at 15 each, so you'd still be saving 10 bucks.

But come on guys, who are you kidding, almost every night I still see you playing MW3....we're all so getting it day one. tongue.gif

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post #544 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCS View Post

I will be dropping Elite then unless I can find a deal for MS Points to keep it cheap otherwise its a waste for me.

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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

I would tend to agree. The only benefit is getting the map packs early but I'm not sure that's worth $50 or whatever they're going to charge this year.

You guys do know that you cannot participate in clan ops unless you have premium elite right? So don't buy it however you wont' be helping us with clan ops assuming they work the same in blops 2 :P

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post #545 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jammybastard View Post

So there's no edition where Elite is included?
Time to find out how much people really care about Elite.
very little

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post #546 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 10:43 AM
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You guys do know that you cannot participate in clan ops unless you have premium elite right? So don't buy it however you wont' be helping us with clan ops assuming they work the same in blops 2 :P

You and Conman might have to hold down the clan ops fort.

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post #547 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Well, the last two games had 4 packs at 15 each, so you'd still be saving 10 bucks.
But come on guys, who are you kidding, almost every night I still see you playing MW3....we're all so getting it day one. tongue.gif

I'm definitely getting the game, I'm just not sure about Elite.

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post #548 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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I see alot of stuff to sell on Ebay and have the game pay for itself. biggrin.gif

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post #549 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 11:18 AM
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I see alot of stuff to sell on Ebay and have the game pay for itself. biggrin.gif

Lol, true.

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post #550 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Elite not getting included in the Hardened or Prestige editions is crazyness. Behold, the greed of Activision! tongue.gif

Definitely a bad move.
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post #551 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

But come on guys, who are you kidding, almost every night I still see you playing MW3....we're all so getting it day one. tongue.gif

Never said I wasn't getting the game day one. Elite for $50 hasn't proven itself worthy. Honestly of all the maps released have any of them been any good? Oasis maybe. Foundation and Sanctuary yuck, Overwatch ... ehh. The Face Off maps aren't too bad though but you can't play them in a group of 6.

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Originally Posted by bucwylde23 View Post

You guys do know that you cannot participate in clan ops unless you have premium elite right? So don't buy it however you wont' be helping us with clan ops assuming they work the same in blops 2 :P

Well that would be a bit of a bummer as the challenges have brought some life back to MW3 for me but $50 is too much for it. When it was included it made some sense (not much). I still have plenty of time to figure out what I want to do.

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post #552 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 12:38 PM
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I thought most of the mw3 dlc maps were pretty good. Better than the stock maps. But that really doesn't have anything to do with elite, they're going to make the maps they're going to make, elite or not.

All it takes is a few people to get elite and get the new maps early, and then everyone falls like dominoes just to keep playing together. I can see some of the regulars holding off on buying elite before the first drop, but after that, everyone is getting on or off that train entirely.

If they can keep everyone playing a game that so many people say they don't like....they can get those same people to buy anything they make for one they do. smile.gif

Either way I think it's a pretty big gamble for them to unbundle it from their hardened edition, they must be pretty confident they can get people to pony up without sweetening the deal as much as before.

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post #553 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bucwylde23 View Post

You guys do know that you cannot participate in clan ops unless you have premium elite right? So don't buy it however you wont' be helping us with clan ops assuming they work the same in blops 2 :P

Of course I thought of that.
Are Clan Ops really worth it?
Not to me.
I hate mw3. I play because of the people we play with. That's what makes it fun.
Hearing you and Mighty call each other names while watching Conman destroy other teams.
I don't need Elite or Clan ops for that.

So far all the clan ops competitions have been boring,
They aren't really competitive and we don't get anything from them.
Plus they are 3 hrs which is waaaay too long.
Everytime we play them we are bored after an hour because it's such a grind playing the same mode over and over.

Elite needs a league where we can really compete. Then it would be worth it to me.
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post #554 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jammybastard View Post

Of course I thought of that.
Are Clan Ops really worth it?
Not to me.
I hate mw3. I play because of the people we play with. That's what makes it fun.
Hearing you and Mighty call each other names while watching Conman destroy other teams.
I don't need Elite or Clan ops for that.
So far all the clan ops competitions have been boring,
They aren't really competitive and we don't get anything from them.
Plus they are 3 hrs which is waaaay too long.
Everytime we play them we are bored after an hour because it's such a grind playing the same mode over and over.
Elite needs a league where we can really compete. Then it would be worth it to me.

It seems like the only ones that really seem like a grind are any that are hardcore because some of you nancies can't handle it. And by some I mean Snarky. biggrin.gif

The KC ones are more fun because they become a competition within the op.

I do agree that we need more/better competition for the ops to make it interesting. A league might be fun as long as it doesn't become overly serious. I mean, I want to win as much as the next Conman, but if we lose it's no big deal to me.

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post #555 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 01:29 PM
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Details about ELITE integration with #BlackOps2 will be coming next month. Stay tuned for more.

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post #556 of 4672 Old 08-28-2012, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Well, the last two games had 4 packs at 15 each, so you'd still be saving 10 bucks.
But come on guys, who are you kidding, almost every night I still see you playing MW3....we're all so getting it day one. tongue.gif

The truth hurts lol!

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post #557 of 4672 Old 08-29-2012, 09:31 AM
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i laughed so hard at 1:51!! this is great...

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post #558 of 4672 Old 08-30-2012, 06:26 AM
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I will be getting ELITE on day one as well because I can't hide money. smile.gif

I really could care less about the Hardened or Prestige Editions. Talk about a total waste of money and who cares about the toys you get with it? Plus story lines aren't that great.


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post #559 of 4672 Old 08-30-2012, 06:33 PM
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I've heard through the grapevine that this game is built off the mw3 engine-- if the connections are like mw3 I'm done. Just popped in cod4 tonight after getting frustrated with mw3 and I was amazed at how much better the hit detection is in that game!

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post #560 of 4672 Old 08-31-2012, 05:43 AM
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You heard incorrectly. It's built off the treyarch fork of the engine, that split back at world at war. I'm sure it'll be as good (or as bad) as blops was.

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post #561 of 4672 Old 09-01-2012, 09:54 PM
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Did you not argue with me endlessly that Blops and MW2 used the same engine and that my experience of deteriorating hit detection from mw2 to blops to mw3 was all in my head? Lol!

I hope you're right but I have a bad feeling. As much as I WANT blops 2 to be awesome I'm getting that dreadful, pit of your stomach feeling I'm just fooling myself... MW3 is a train wreck and if it wasn't for infection (which I STILL rage quit when I got 3 knife hits on a stationary target tonight without a kill) I would have sold it for a starbucks coffee months ago. I just can't get over the feeling that this series has jumped the shark and is no longer a game targeted towards the 'hardcore' console FPS fan.

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post #562 of 4672 Old 09-02-2012, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Did you not argue with me endlessly that Blops and MW2 used the same engine and that my experience of deteriorating hit detection from mw2 to blops to mw3 was all in my head? Lol!.

If that's what you came away with, then you misunderstood me. The engines share a common root (cod4). Since world at war they've split and been on separate, but similar development paths. They're still very, very similar, but since any changes in the net code from mw2-mw3 took place well after the split, they're not going to be incorporated into the blops 2 codebase. So whatever particular thing you believe ****ed it up in mw3, isn't in by default in blops 2.

That doesn't mean treyarch won't makes their own changes that can subtly change the netcode and have people foaming at the mouth again. There was just as much bellyaching about the hit detection in blops, until mw3 came out, and then everyone all of a sudden looked fondly back on it. Even if blops 2 deals with edge cases better, or just has overall better response, even if it was a mirror image of the paragon of netcode that was mw2, people will still have enough lag moments to declare it a total failure, and the codcasting and theater mode is only going to make perpetuating nonsense through misinformed youtube videos easier than ever before.

So set your expectations accordingly. If you're coming at the game with a hyper critical eye on the netcode from the start, you're going to find what you're looking for. On the other hand, if you truly believe treyarch is more capable in this area, the placebo effect can override anything you see. So just keep telling yourself blops rules and MW drools, and you'll probably love it. smile.gif

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post #563 of 4672 Old 09-02-2012, 11:32 AM
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Wow, you never miss an opportunity to be condescending, do you? Lol!

FYI, I think the lag/hit detection/whatever in blops is a disaster and it was only after seeing how much WORSE it could get in MW3 that I sort of took a deep breath concerning blops. Over on the activision forums there has been a discussion running forever about 'lag comp' and what it is/isn't. The summation of that discussion is that the experience everyone is complaining about in MW3 began as an attempt to negate host advantage back in MW2 and this feature was radically altered for blops in an effort to provide a more even playing ground for players of ALL connection qualities-- if the thread is to be believed there is very little difference between blops and MW3 when it comes to the matchmaking/host/lag system and that the differnce in 'feel' between the two games has more to do with gun damage and recoil masking any obvious symptoms.

Personally, I LOVE watching killcams and theater feeds because it shows me what I COULDN'T see in game! This is satisfying for the reason it takes the pressure off me to try and explain how some of my more outrageous deaths-- for example, in my last game last night I was featured in a final killcam which told a very different story to the one I experienced first hand! In the final seconds I was holding off a pack of infected and had run out of ammo in my primary, I switched to my pistols and started blasting the sole runner advancing on me. Much to my frustration I emptied both guns into the player scoring hitmarkers the entire way but NO KILL! As the reload animation started the player shanked me and GAME OVER... a whole ONE kill away from a MOAB which may have prolonged my streak. When the final killcam began playing I saw that as my killer advanced into his knife animation I was STILL HOLDING MY PRIMARY! LOL! I never did pull out my pistols and that second and a half of me firing at him NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN GAME.

This kind of **** happens to me every time I play MW3 without fail. If you have accepted this and are willing to give activision/IW/3arc a pass then that's up to you but I personally feel that it's unacceptable.

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post #564 of 4672 Old 09-02-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

That doesn't mean treyarch won't makes their own changes that can subtly change the netcode and have people foaming at the mouth again. There was just as much bellyaching about the hit detection in blops, until mw3 came out, and then everyone all of a sudden looked fondly back on it.

Whoa! Let's get our facts straight here.
There was not alot of bellyaching after the first month.

I was the guy who spent an insane amount of time arguing with 2 AVS members here about BLOPS vs. MW2 and their respective netcode.
I was the one who actually posted links to facts backing up my position that it was as much an issue of netcode as it was users ISP's and other issues that
was out of Treyarch's hands.

One person in particular, Jitu, played BLOPS for less than 2 weeks after launch before declaring it broken and selling it.
Of course he continued to argue about it fro the next 6 months.
rolleyes.gif

BLOPS did have netcode issues for most people for at least 2-4 weeks after launch, which coincided with Treyarch patching it via hotfixes
(which was a first for the COD series).
After that it got much better with most (95%) of the problems fixed by the end of the year, essentially 2 months after launch.

We look fondly back at it because it was a great game overall, superior to MW3 in every way at least, not just because of the MP and it's issues which were thankfully short lived.
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post #565 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Wow, you never miss an opportunity to be condescending, do you? Lol!
FYI, I think the lag/hit detection/whatever in blops is a disaster and it was only after seeing how much WORSE it could get in MW3 that I sort of took a deep breath concerning blops. Over on the activision forums there has been a discussion running forever about 'lag comp' and what it is/isn't. The summation of that discussion is that the experience everyone is complaining about in MW3 began as an attempt to negate host advantage back in MW2 and this feature was radically altered for blops in an effort to provide a more even playing ground for players of ALL connection qualities-- if the thread is to be believed there is very little difference between blops and MW3 when it comes to the matchmaking/host/lag system and that the differnce in 'feel' between the two games has more to do with gun damage and recoil masking any obvious symptoms.
Personally, I LOVE watching killcams and theater feeds because it shows me what I COULDN'T see in game! This is satisfying for the reason it takes the pressure off me to try and explain how some of my more outrageous deaths-- for example, in my last game last night I was featured in a final killcam which told a very different story to the one I experienced first hand! In the final seconds I was holding off a pack of infected and had run out of ammo in my primary, I switched to my pistols and started blasting the sole runner advancing on me. Much to my frustration I emptied both guns into the player scoring hitmarkers the entire way but NO KILL! As the reload animation started the player shanked me and GAME OVER... a whole ONE kill away from a MOAB which may have prolonged my streak. When the final killcam began playing I saw that as my killer advanced into his knife animation I was STILL HOLDING MY PRIMARY! LOL! I never did pull out my pistols and that second and a half of me firing at him NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN GAME.
This kind of **** happens to me every time I play MW3 without fail. If you have accepted this and are willing to give activision/IW/3arc a pass then that's up to you but I personally feel that it's unacceptable.

I dunno....I dont really mean to be condescending, I just have very little patience for whining about lag. Its unavoidable, and the best case scenario is just covering it up. And it effects *everyone* equally. You might have a better or worse connection in any one particular match or shootout, but its going to help you as often as it hurts you. For every one of your outrageous deaths, you scored one on someone else. So its not a matter of fairness, its equally unfair to everyone. You make it sound like its singling you specifically. I'm not giving anyone a pass, its just how it is, how it always has been, and how it always will be. Its like a force of nature, like being mad at gravity. Just accept it, and move on.

Analyzing it using theater mode only compounds the problem, since you're watching a recreation that runs at 1/3rd the precision - 20 updates/sec, interpolated to 60fps - of an already lagged game, causing outrageous events where hits look like total misses, things happen out of order, fire rates seem to slow down for some weapons, quickscopers look like they didnt even scope in - it looks like something's broken, but in reality you're just watching an imprecise recreation of the hosts imprecise POV. Theater mode should never, ever, ever be used to analyze any sort of order of events - its purely entertainment value. IMO that's why MW2 has such a great reputation, and its fallen off from there - theater mode. People never before had the tools to start analyzing and agonizing over this stuff, and then 3arc and IW gave them a really poor one to do so. If MW2 had a theater mode, it would produce clips that look equally outrageous.

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post #566 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammybastard View Post

Whoa! Let's get our facts straight here.
There was not alot of bellyaching after the first month.
I was the guy who spent an insane amount of time arguing with 2 AVS members here about BLOPS vs. MW2 and their respective netcode.
I was the one who actually posted links to facts backing up my position that it was as much an issue of netcode as it was users ISP's and other issues that
was out of Treyarch's hands.
One person in particular, Jitu, played BLOPS for less than 2 weeks after launch before declaring it broken and selling it.
Of course he continued to argue about it fro the next 6 months.
rolleyes.gif
BLOPS did have netcode issues for most people for at least 2-4 weeks after launch, which coincided with Treyarch patching it via hotfixes
(which was a first for the COD series).
After that it got much better with most (95%) of the problems fixed by the end of the year, essentially 2 months after launch.
We look fondly back at it because it was a great game overall, superior to MW3 in every way at least, not just because of the MP and it's issues which were thankfully short lived.

I never really had much problem with the netcode in blops from the start, although I definitely remember a fair bit of complaining about hit detection here and other places for quite some time.

I'm really looking forward to blops 2 though. I've gotten over my initial misgivings about the removal of strike packages and so few weapons. Theyre doing way more right than theyre doing wrong. Even if I'm pro-MW3, I'm in no way anti-blops. I know there's still a lot that theyre not telling us, but what theyve already shown looks really solid. We still know nothing about customization, DLC plans, Elite and zombies. I just wish it would come out already.

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post #567 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I dunno....I dont really mean to be condescending, I just have very little patience for whining about lag. Its unavoidable, and the best case scenario is just covering it up. And it effects *everyone* equally. You might have a better or worse connection in any one particular match or shootout, but its going to help you as often as it hurts you. For every one of your outrageous deaths, you scored one on someone else. So its not a matter of fairness, its equally unfair to everyone.

That's just not true. If anything it could be different match-to-match but even that doesn't happen. It's really dependent on your connection to the host, or rather IW's compensation for that connection.

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post #568 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 09:56 AM
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We've gone down this road before and we'll just have to agree to disagree! smile.gif

Bottom line: I never once got the feeling in CoD4 or MW2 like I was getting a ride on the wrong side of the sausage stick. Conversely, and to your point, I never once felt like I was getting a 'free ride' in those games either. I admit that there are instances in MW3 that I'm AMAZED I got a kill-- the most common is the 'I-just-started-the-reload-animation-and-totally-missed-that-guy-but-he-just-fell-over-dead-anyway' kill that makes you realize the lag gods were working in your favor... here's the thing: I HATE that!

I played MW2 more than any other Cod, I would not have if the game were as inconsistent as MW3. Noob tubes and quick scopers and knifers, oh my-- I can put up with a LOT of BS but this lag situation is totally different. This isn't my first rodeo, I've been playing online shooters for years and I've never experienced something as plainly ****ed up as MW3's connection issues. I've experienced plenty of lag over the years but this is different.

If you say it's the same than so be it. If that's the case-- and I really think it's NOT-- then my hope is that blops 2 implements whatever features that MW2 used to 'mask' the problem!

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post #569 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I dunno....I dont really mean to be condescending, I just have very little patience for whining about lag. Its unavoidable, and the best case scenario is just covering it up. And it effects *everyone* equally. You might have a better or worse connection in any one particular match or shootout, but its going to help you as often as it hurts you. For every one of your outrageous deaths, you scored one on someone else. So its not a matter of fairness, its equally unfair to everyone.

That's just not true. If anything it could be different match-to-match but even that doesn't happen. It's really dependent on your connection to the host, or rather IW's compensation for that connection.

But the same goes for everyone else. Between matches, sometimes you have a ****** connection to the host, sometimes you have a great one, sometimes you are the host. Within matches, sometimes it's better to have a ****** connection, sometimes it's better to have a better one. Its not like there's a permanent underclass.

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post #570 of 4672 Old 09-03-2012, 10:30 AM
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I barely played MW3 and I said I wasn't going to buy Blops 2 but it looks like Treyarch is doing some cool stuff. My resolve is starting to weaken. Hopefully they are now offering elite free minus the dlc.

I can't believe we're having this lag discussion again. It was insane the first time. It's great that we have so many experts here though to tell us what the problem is.
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