Xbox 360 console and Kinect for $100 with contract! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like they're following the subsidy cell phone model...

a great deal for people wanting to get in on some great gaming and multimedia options without paying a lot upfront... And it's not a bad value. If you were to pay upfront with today's prices: $300 for 360 and Kinect. $38-50 for 1 year of Gold so let's say $100 for 2 years of Gold. $400 versus $460. not bad considering you don't need much upfront.

rumored by The Verge:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/2/299...sidized-bundle

$99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription

The software giant will offer the 4GB console with a Kinect sensor at its range of Microsoft Stores in the US, subsidized with a monthly cost of $15. We're told that the two-year subscription will provide access to the Xbox Live Gold service and possibly some additional streaming content from cable providers or sports package providers. Customers who sign-up for the deal will also be covered under a two-year warranty.
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post #2 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 11:25 AM
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A great way to ensure revenue for 2 years on an old and dying system.
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post #3 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I think this actually lends credence to the idea of launching the next Xbox in 2013.

Now they can have tiered pricing without sacrificing income. Leverage how profitable the 360 has become while still introducing new hardware.
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post #4 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 12:12 PM
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Exactly. Plus you ensure sales of 360 games for at least two years.
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post #5 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 02:17 PM
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I said this on the verge article too but I see this as a play to get into cable companies.... the monthly price of the box is about what a dvr would cost from them. When the apps have both live and on demand access then they can actually replace your cable box and I could see them being sold by the cable companies as set top boxes which would be good for both the cable companies and ms.
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post #6 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm done with buying 360 console hardware as 2 is enough for me...

But it seems like a great deal for people that want multiple consoles throughout a house or are upgrading from a Wii. You end up paying $460 to get the subsidized 360 with Kinect and 2 years of Gold versus $420 upfront for the same package ($300 360 4GB console with Kinect plus $120 for 2 years of Gold). That's $40 you had to spend to get the $100 price. Which works out to be $1.67/month that you had to pay to get that $100 price.

Even if you say you can get a year of Gold for $35-40 when it's on sale, that's $370 so you're paying $90 extra which works out to be $3.75/month to get that $100 price.
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post #7 of 40 Old 05-02-2012, 09:29 PM
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ESPN ? A & E ? what is this Extra content that they are talking about? If they could somehow add the regular nationwide ESPN channel, as part of this deal, plus TV shows from A & E, and maybe a few other networks, then I just might be on board with a $15 monthly fee.
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post #8 of 40 Old 05-03-2012, 01:04 PM
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i wonder if this signals that there will not be any backwards compatibility in the next gen console? think about it... make the current hardware cheap(ish), build a next gen hardware without adding in backwards compatibilty(and additional cost into the new hardware), say "if you want to play xbox 360 titles, get a $100 xbox bundle".
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post #9 of 40 Old 05-03-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

I said this on the verge article too but I see this as a play to get into cable companies.... the monthly price of the box is about what a dvr would cost from them. When the apps have both live and on demand access then they can actually replace your cable box and I could see them being sold by the cable companies as set top boxes which would be good for both the cable companies and ms.

I hope you're wrong, because it would suck to pay monthly for cable, and then pay monthly for the box.
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post #10 of 40 Old 05-03-2012, 06:12 PM
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I hope you're wrong, because it would suck to pay monthly for cable, and then pay monthly for the box.

No different than what it is now just that it is a 360 and not a sat/cable box

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post #11 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 11:21 AM
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 11:53 AM
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If the product can plug into the internet to sell more services, subsidized the main product price and then sell you the services at full price for the next few years. It was also done with computer many years ago when modem was the primary connection to the internet. Smartphone will be a better example for today.

Targeted consumers for this X360/Kinect for $99 are the type that can't save money to buy the console at a later time without any string tied. Or, spontaneous customers that just have to buy it if seen at very low price and don't think of the total price having to pay for the next 2 years. Consumers that are combination of those two types are perfect and there are plenty of them in the market.

For Microsoft, by subsidizing the cost of the $99 bundle, Microsoft has opened you with all kind of services, some free and many paid. Until the consumers are given a reason to check out the Gold Live specific services, they may not consider spending more money on services such as Netflix or Hulu Plus. Some of the new services require you to have additional subscription on your cable. More profits for everyone attached to Live but you.

Next is additional storage. If the gamer only has 4GB X360 without any online, 4GB storage is decent just for game saves. Additional 16GB USB flash is a lot of storage. But once the gamer has Gold Live, there are tons of stuff to download (free or paid) which will fill up your local storage. Adding two more 16GB USB flash will not be enough if the gamer starts to buy DLCs or full download games. Eventually, buying a hard drive is needed. More profits for Microsoft.
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post #13 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Face View Post

i wonder if this signals that there will not be any backwards compatibility in the next gen console? think about it... make the current hardware cheap(ish), build a next gen hardware without adding in backwards compatibilty(and additional cost into the new hardware), say "if you want to play xbox 360 titles, get a $100 xbox bundle".

I don't know I have a hard time believing there's not going to be any b/c at all. Not even thinking about the disc games how many games on Live do they sell? Is it enough to warrant b/c? Of course if more than half don't really even use the system for games anymore would it make a difference? I hope so because I don't really care to have to keep the 360 I just got around for some Live Arcade games while I mess around with the new system. Something tells me there's going to be b/c.
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post #14 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

If the product can plug into the internet to sell more services, subsidized the main product price and then sell you the services at full price for the next few years.



I calculated that MS is charging .96% interest compounded monthly, or approximately 12% per year, for the privilege of paying $99 up front. I guess this is a good deal for people who would be carrying $299 on their credit card and paying 20% APR, but not for everyone else.

Very smart move by MS, but you'd have to be an idiot to think you're getting a deal. MS is locking you into an expensive subscription service that is for all intents and purposes, dirt cheap for them to run now because of how many people use it. Selling XBL is vastly more profitable than even console sales (now that they're in the black). Meanwhile you get a very small subsidy on the hardware, that doesn't make too much financial sense if you take the time to run the numbers.

...and these are going to sell like hotcakes!
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post #15 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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the benefits of backward compatibility are less nowadays. The big reasons why people wanted BC was because they didn't want to start completely over and because of the dearth of games on a new platform.

Since the next Xbox will be using the same network, the same infrastructure, and the same accounts, both platforms can now coexist as people would be able to continue purchases on both platforms. People will not have to make the vested commitment to abandon one platform for the next since they can coexist.

Now, if Microsoft wanted to put the final nail in the coffin for backward compatibility, they would allow crossplatform play between the 360 and the next Xbox. That would be one of the keys to keeping people in the Microsoft universe, just like how the iPod and iPhone keep people in the Apple universe.
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post #16 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Very smart move by MS, but you'd have to be an idiot to think you're getting a deal.

it's always a better value to pay everything upfront. whether it's your house, your car, your phone, etc. but not everyone can...

but even if they can, sometimes it's a benefit to not pay upfront. A lot of people can technically pay a car in full with cash but who does that? That's wasted money that can be allocated otherwise. Even though Paul Allen could buy sports franchise outright with the billions in cash he has, he still didn't and did take loans, etc. to fund his purchases.

for $1.67/month extra to get that $100 price, you get to pay $115 upfront rather than $335 (if you only got 1 year of Gold to start) or $370. A lot you can do with $255 like buy a few games or pay some other bills.

Of course, it would be great for the consumer if the price was just lowered. but this is a good deal for certain demographics.
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post #17 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 07:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lord_Zath View Post

A great way to ensure revenue for 2 years on an old and dying system.

If it was dying, you would not see the numbers as they are, and also with the fact that Microsoft is teaming with various Pay to Watch systems, like Verizon, ATT, Comcast, etc. to use the 360 as an extender. Game sales and rentals are still up for the 360. So, I really do not see where you are getting that it is a old and dying system.
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post #18 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 10:42 PM
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http://m.kotaku.com/5908241/you-can-...icrosoft-store

Seems this is only valid with a coupon and at a Microsoft store... Just how many of those stores are there?

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post #19 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

http://m.kotaku.com/5908241/you-can-...icrosoft-store

Seems this is only valid with a coupon and at a Microsoft store... Just how many of those stores are there?

I live in SoCal. So there 2 within 20 minutes of me. And there's one in San Diego that's 1.5 hours from me.
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post #20 of 40 Old 05-07-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post


I live in SoCal. So there 2 within 20 minutes of me. And there's one in San Diego that's 1.5 hours from me.

There are 21 locations nation wide according to their website, and that includes coming soon stores...

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post #21 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 05:50 AM
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I saw some dumb idiot that paid over 2k for a ps3 from rentacenter, people are really financially stupid.
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post #22 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

If it was dying, you would not see the numbers as they are, and also with the fact that Microsoft is teaming with various Pay to Watch systems, like Verizon, ATT, Comcast, etc. to use the 360 as an extender. Game sales and rentals are still up for the 360. So, I really do not see where you are getting that it is a old and dying system.

This system is horribly outdated. Why are they trying to use the 360 as an extender? So people will find other uses for their console. If it becomes a mainstay in the home theater AND a gaming system, its value increases at a time when games have reached their plateau in terms of what they can do on the system. Sony managed to do this with their PS3 from the start - its media capabilities vastly outclassed the 360 until MS started partnering with the companies you mentioned.

When was this console released? November 2005. So it's approaching 7 years old. It has 512 MB of RAM, 10MB of video RAM, and a triple core processor. Hard drives vary in size from the original 20GB to 320GB or 4GB of space. Cutting edge in 2005. By comparison, my 2011 netbook has 1gb of RAM, 256MB of video RAM, 500GB hard drive, and a dual core processor.

Does this mean the system is dead tomorrow? No. But it's widely believed that a new system is on the rise. If that's the case, then development houses are focusing more on that than current systems. It'll be just like when the PS3 was launched - PS2 games were still released, many with the same title as the PS3 but with fewer features/graphics - for $10 or so cheaper. I believe xbox did the same, but I did not follow it much as back then I had a PS2, then PS3.
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Lord_Zath, outdated? Where are you coming up with this stuff? The 360 platform is far from being outdated. It is just now starting to flex its muscle and show off what it can do.

If engineers and sales & marketing thought like you, the 360 platform would have only been out on the market for six months and then gone.

It will continue to be a money maker for Microsoft for quite a few years, even after the NextGen for MS comes out, people will still be using the 360 platform for a while.
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post #24 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Zath View Post


This system is horribly outdated. Why are they trying to use the 360 as an extender? So people will find other uses for their console. If it becomes a mainstay in the home theater AND a gaming system, its value increases at a time when games have reached their plateau in terms of what they can do on the system. Sony managed to do this with their PS3 from the start - its media capabilities vastly outclassed the 360 until MS started partnering with the companies you mentioned.

When was this console released? November 2005. So it's approaching 7 years old. It has 512 MB of RAM, 10MB of video RAM, and a triple core processor. Hard drives vary in size from the original 20GB to 320GB or 4GB of space. Cutting edge in 2005. By comparison, my 2011 netbook has 1gb of RAM, 256MB of video RAM, 500GB hard drive, and a dual core processor.

Does this mean the system is dead tomorrow? No. But it's widely believed that a new system is on the rise. If that's the case, then development houses are focusing more on that than current systems. It'll be just like when the PS3 was launched - PS2 games were still released, many with the same title as the PS3 but with fewer features/graphics - for $10 or so cheaper. I believe xbox did the same, but I did not follow it much as back then I had a PS2, then PS3.

The 360 has been a extender since day one of its release in 05. Where have you been? Have you not figured out by now that this gen has been off the trail of previous gen cycles. It has been 7 years because they started at higher cost for the system, sales are still good , games are still being bought in millions and they are making a profit. Notice MS hasn't had an official price drop in what 2-3 years compared to the competition. Your in the minority of consumers that feel these systems are old. Consumers still buy MW2 because not everyone plays new games. People enjoy Kinect with 20 million sold. Blame us consumers don't blame the company that had a game plan and adjusting decisions based on economy and deals they struck that has us where we/they are today. It was the best selling system of 2011. Why are you comparing specs of a dedicated game console to a netbook? I cannot play Reach, Gears or Trials on the Netbook. Any multi-platform games that I could play on that Netbook still won't compare to the games I play when I am on Live with family and friends.
I like the capability that I already pay for Live for online that I have access to HBO Go, Netflix and Hulu all in one spot. Now I don't have to go to my computer to access YouTube and IGN anymore. It doesn't matter what capabilities the PS3 had as far as your opinion of it having superior media capabilities anymore than features that MS thought of as standard that Sony added on as afterthoughts.

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post #25 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

I saw some dumb idiot that paid over 2k for a ps3 from rentacenter, people are really financially stupid.

This. But it is a good hook to essentially trick people into two years of Live for $15/month. People are dumb, they never look at the real cost of thing, just the advertised cost. It was the same for the $299 360 when it launched, never mind the fact that Wi-Fi was $99, memory card was like $50, etc.

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post #26 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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This. But it is a good hook to essentially trick people into two years of Live for $15/month. People are dumb, they never look at the real cost of thing, just the advertised cost. It was the same for the $299 360 when it launched, never mind the fact that Wi-Fi was $99, memory card was like $50, etc.

I love how you use the word trick. Like As if this isn't an option just like Wi-Fi was an option. No one was tricked or forced like fanboys like to state. You need to get out of this child mentality thinking. It is what it is for what it cost at the time. This is an optional route for consumers. I still don't get why Anyone cares how other strangers spend their money.

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post #27 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Lord_Zath, outdated? Where are you coming up with this stuff? The 360 platform is far from being outdated. It is just now starting to flex its muscle and show off what it can do.

If engineers and sales & marketing thought like you, the 360 platform would have only been out on the market for six months and then gone.

It will continue to be a money maker for Microsoft for quite a few years, even after the NextGen for MS comes out, people will still be using the 360 platform for a while.

Try playing games like Battlefield 3. Look at what they can do on the PC. And I'm not just talking about graphics. Map size, player count, load times - it's all vastly superior.

How can you think 512MB of RAM is sufficient? Do you have any evidence to prove that the 360 is "just now starting to flex its muscles?" I've heard this argument for years - on both the 360 and the PS3 (and even the Wii to a certain extent).

Microsoft would be fools to not be considering the next console.

Your point about the console still being a moneymaker is exactly the point I was making - for a couple years, PS2 was still profitable after the PS3 came out.

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The 360 has been a extender since day one of its release in 05. Where have you been? Have you not figured out by now that this gen has been off the trail of previous gen cycles. It has been 7 years because they started at higher cost for the system, sales are still good , games are still being bought in millions and they are making a profit. Notice MS hasn't had an official price drop in what 2-3 years compared to the competition. Your in the minority of consumers that feel these systems are old. Consumers still buy MW2 because not everyone plays new games. People enjoy Kinect with 20 million sold. Blame us consumers don't blame the company that had a game plan and adjusting decisions based on economy and deals they struck that has us where we/they are today. It was the best selling system of 2011. Why are you comparing specs of a dedicated game console to a netbook? I cannot play Reach, Gears or Trials on the Netbook. Any multi-platform games that I could play on that Netbook still won't compare to the games I play when I am on Live with family and friends.
I like the capability that I already pay for Live for online that I have access to HBO Go, Netflix and Hulu all in one spot. Now I don't have to go to my computer to access YouTube and IGN anymore. It doesn't matter what capabilities the PS3 had as far as your opinion of it having superior media capabilities anymore than features that MS thought of as standard that Sony added on as afterthoughts.

I purchased a PS3 first (MGS4 pack; 2007?), then a Wii (2008?), then a 360 (RE5 bundle/Jasper - 2009?). So I haven't followed the 360 prior to then. I can say that from a media center perspective, the PS3 was vastly superior. It could output 7.1, lossless audio, had media card readers, gigabit NIC, and bluetooth. Comparing PS3 slim to 360 slim, sure - I'd also give the 360 an edge when it comes to accessing Internet based media.

I'm confused by "off the trail" - what do you mean here? As far as I can tell, they're doing the same thing that happened when the PS2 was king - release, 4 years or so later, re-release a slim version, a few years later, develop a new console.

Your argument about MW2 is rather flawed. People still buy PS2 games at Wal-Mart. Does that mean the PS2 is still alive and kicking?

I am also confused as to why you are bringing up Live and playing with friends. Didn't this also come up when the original XBOX was still king and the 360 was released? People with Live still had access to both, right? So why would it be a big deal if the new console came out? We're not talking about Live going away - just a new piece of hardware coming out.

I'm comparing my netbook to point out how far technology has advanced in 7 years. You're right, you can't play xbox 360 games on a netbook. I thought that was pretty obvious, and most people knew that.

Your last sentence is really hard to read.
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post #28 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 11:38 AM
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There is a difference between saying the 360 is out dated in terms of PC games, and out dated in terms of an entertainment streamer/box. The 360 is in no way out dated as a media streamer. In those terms it ranks among one of the best on the market when you factor in Kinect.
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post #29 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 11:48 AM
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There is a difference between saying the 360 is out dated in terms of PC games, and out dated in terms of an entertainment streamer/box. The 360 is in no way out dated as a media streamer. In those terms it ranks among one of the best on the market when you factor in Kinect.

Definitely. My argument is mainly in terms of gaming. As a media streamer/center, it easily has the components to handle it - to the point where it competes against HTPCs. Add network storage capabilities, and there's no need for a $500 HTPC.
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post #30 of 40 Old 05-08-2012, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zath View Post


Definitely. My argument is mainly in terms of gaming. As a media streamer/center, it easily has the components to handle it - to the point where it competes against HTPCs. Add network storage capabilities, and there's no need for a $500 HTPC.

You are talking Apples and Oranges. Again, the 360 is still going to be around for a long time. It is called a "Entertainment Platform", same as the PS3. The reason that MS did not build it how you think that it should have been built, would have drove costs out the roof. The processors used in the 360 were compared to using a Supercomputer, same with the PS3.

It is fine if you want to pay thousands for a top of the line rig to play games, but for the average consumer, the 360 fits the need, and has more horsepower than the cellphone or computer they use.
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