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post #1 of 18 Old 12-16-2012, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Anybody else notice that even though it shouldn't, the setting "Standard" (under Display Settings/then Reference Levels) seems to deliver the best accuracy, even on a new 2012 Sony XBR950 TV ?

I have a new Sony XBR950 LED LCD TV. One bad ass awesome TV I must say. BUT when I went to the XBox settings to try to beef them up to match my new tv (1080p, wide screen, etc..) this setting, which is suppose to deliver more "Color Data" to TV's that can handle it seems to only make the PQ look worse IMO. After reading more on it, it does say that if your TV does not recognize this extra data, then it could make the PQ look worse... which in my case every other setting other than "Standard" does make it look worse.

Now I can't imagine that the TV I have can not recognize that extra color info. So I was just wondering, since the XBox is so old and technically using yesterdays technology, why or HOW is it that it has a setting on it that my 2012 High End TV seemingly can't handle or recognize ? The setting choices are "Standard" / "Intermediate" / "Expanded". So Expanded and Intermediate look the same on my TV, which is totally over dark and black clipping and seem to be extremely over Gamma'ed out. Standard looks the best.

But I just don't understand why this would be the case.

Or, is this setting just useless ? And everyone else experiences this too ? Or is it indeed that this Sony XBR950 simply doesn't recognize this extra color data ?

Any input would be greatly appreciated... as in, what are your settings under reference levels on the xBox ? And have you noticed a difference ? What kind ? Etc...

Thanks -
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 12:34 AM
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"Standard" is the correct setting for most TVs. If you game on a monitor, the other choices might work better.
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post #3 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Anybody else notice that even though it shouldn't, the setting "Standard" (under Display Settings/then Reference Levels) seems to deliver the best accuracy, even on a new 2012 Sony XBR950 TV ?

I have a new Sony XBR950 LED LCD TV. One bad ass awesome TV I must say. BUT when I went to the XBox settings to try to beef them up to match my new tv (1080p, wide screen, etc..) this setting, which is suppose to deliver more "Color Data" to TV's that can handle it seems to only make the PQ look worse IMO. After reading more on it, it does say that if your TV does not recognize this extra data, then it could make the PQ look worse... which in my case every other setting other than "Standard" does make it look worse.

Now I can't imagine that the TV I have can not recognize that extra color info. So I was just wondering, since the XBox is so old and technically using yesterdays technology, why or HOW is it that it has a setting on it that my 2012 High End TV seemingly can't handle or recognize ? The setting choices are "Standard" / "Intermediate" / "Expanded". So Expanded and Intermediate look the same on my TV, which is totally over dark and black clipping and seem to be extremely over Gamma'ed out. Standard looks the best.

But I just don't understand why this would be the case.

Or, is this setting just useless ? And everyone else experiences this too ? Or is it indeed that this Sony XBR950 simply doesn't recognize this extra color data ?

Any input would be greatly appreciated... as in, what are your settings under reference levels on the xBox ? And have you noticed a difference ? What kind ? Etc...

Thanks -

Standard uses the same 16-235 levels that movies and TV content is calibrated to. Expanded uses 0-255, which is typical for PCs. Of course, gaming consoles are glorified PCs....that are meant to be used on a TV.

Basically, there should be a corresponding black level or RGB level setting in your TV, but the nomenclature isn't standardized at all. You want the two to match. If you output expanded, your TV needs to be set up to recognize it. Often you can do it on a per input basis....but if you're using a receiver, everything goes on one input anyway.

There's very little to gain from going with expanded anyway. Unless you do absolutely nothing with this TV but game on it, set everything - the TV, the consoles, bluray players, etc to standard. You're not really losing anything.

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post #4 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ElectronicTonic View Post

"Standard" is the correct setting for most TVs. If you game on a monitor, the other choices might work better.

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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Standard uses the same 16-235 levels that movies and TV content is calibrated to. Expanded uses 0-255, which is typical for PCs. Of course, gaming consoles are glorified PCs....that are meant to be used on a TV.

Basically, there should be a corresponding black level or RGB level setting in your TV, but the nomenclature isn't standardized at all. You want the two to match. If you output expanded, your TV needs to be set up to recognize it. Often you can do it on a per input basis....but if you're using a receiver, everything goes on one input anyway.

There's very little to gain from going with expanded anyway. Unless you do absolutely nothing with this TV but game on it, set everything - the TV, the consoles, bluray players, etc to standard. You're not really losing anything.

Thanks for the info guys. Makes much better since now. Was wondering why once I used anything besides "Standard" the PQ looked so over contrasted (or Gamma too low) out. As in, every shaded area was in total black clip. No amount of adjusting helped.

Guess I was doing the right thing then, Standard is it.

Funny though. These days I figured a TV like mine would have the same data recognition and plausible settings ratios/levels as a monitor. Since I do use separate inputs for every source and am currently not using a receiver, theoretically, I could set my TV's color recognition to try to match the XBox's "Expanded" level setting just on that input. Cause my settings do work on a "per input" basis. Problem is, is when looking, there is nothing I see that corresponds with that that I can tell.

The only 2 possible settings are one called "HDMI Color Matrix" and another called "HDMI Dynamic Level". By its name, I thought for sure the HDMI Color Matrix would be it for sure, but when going over the setting choices, its gives choices of "Auto", or setting each resolution (480i, 480p - 1080i, 1080p, etc..) at either ITU601 or ITU709. It has been on "Auto" this whole time, so it seems it would have changed it automatically to match "expanded" if it could right ? Bottom line, is the best it can do is ITU709, and I am sure it was set there via auto.

The other one though "HDMI Dynamic Level" has a closer corresponding setting names. Its choices are "Auto, Limited, Full" - It has been set to Auto. So even if this is it, it seems like once it seen the "Expanded" information coming from the XBox, it would have automatically been on "Full" ? But maybe not ? If so, though, in both these cases, if (IF) they both were automatically on their highest settings (ITU709 and Full Dynamic Range) then that simply is not at the level of "Expanded". Which is sad.

I agree though, doesn't seem like I am missing much. Don't really need it for sure. But at this point it is fun just playing around with it. I could totally set it to it if I could, so any suggestions ?

Also, does anyone know exactly what the settings "Expanded" is ? As in, is it a ITU color thing ? Or a Dynamic Range thing ? Neither ? Or both ? Plus I was wondering, how could this be a higher setting than that of BluRay ? XBox doesn't even use BluRay, so how could it have a setting on it that exceeds BluRay specs ? My BluRay Player looks absolutely beautiful, way better than anything out of my XBox, thats for sure. So, what are the top tier standard levels of BluRays ?
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post #5 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Thanks for the info guys. Makes much better since now. Was wondering why once I used anything besides "Standard" the PQ looked so over contrasted (or Gamma too low) out. As in, every shaded area was in total black clip. No amount of adjusting helped.
Guess I was doing the right thing then, Standard is it.
Funny though. These days I figured a TV like mine would have the same data recognition and plausible settings ratios/levels as a monitor. Since I do use separate inputs for every source and am currently not using a receiver, theoretically, I could set my TV's color recognition to try to match the XBox's "Expanded" level setting just on that input. Cause my settings do work on a "per input" basis. Problem is, is when looking, there is nothing I see that corresponds with that that I can tell.
The only 2 possible settings are one called "HDMI Color Matrix" and another called "HDMI Dynamic Level". By its name, I thought for sure the HDMI Color Matrix would be it for sure, but when going over the setting choices, its gives choices of "Auto", or setting each resolution (480i, 480p - 1080i, 1080p, etc..) at either ITU601 or ITU709. It has been on "Auto" this whole time, so it seems it would have changed it automatically to match "expanded" if it could right ? Bottom line, is the best it can do is ITU709, and I am sure it was set there via auto.
The other one though "HDMI Dynamic Level" has a closer corresponding setting names. Its choices are "Auto, Limited, Full" - It has been set to Auto. So even if this is it, it seems like once it seen the "Expanded" information coming from the XBox, it would have automatically been on "Full" ? But maybe not ? If so, though, in both these cases, if (IF) they both were automatically on their highest settings (ITU709 and Full Dynamic Range) then that simply is not at the level of "Expanded". Which is sad.
I agree though, doesn't seem like I am missing much. Don't really need it for sure. But at this point it is fun just playing around with it. I could totally set it to it if I could, so any suggestions ?
Also, does anyone know exactly what the settings "Expanded" is ? As in, is it a ITU color thing ? Or a Dynamic Range thing ? Neither ? Or both ? Plus I was wondering, how could this be a higher setting than that of BluRay ? XBox doesn't even use BluRay, so how could it have a setting on it that exceeds BluRay specs ? My BluRay Player looks absolutely beautiful, way better than anything out of my XBox, thats for sure. So, what are the top tier standard levels of BluRays ?

HDMI Dynamic level is the corresponding setting. Standard matches up with limited, and Expanded matches up with full. If you did it manually, you'd find that standard/limited looks basically the same as expanded/full. Despite the way the wording makes it sound, expanded is a very minor bump over standard. The blacks wont be any blacker, the whites wont be any whiter, there will just be a minor, basically imperceptible improvement in smoothly it can track from dark to light. You can go ahead and set it to expanded/full if you want, but you honestly wont be able to tell the difference. The setting is just there for compatibility reasons. Same with the color space....its not about better or worse, its about setting it correctly to match. For color space, the xbox should have an auto setting, and the TV should as well, and then you shouldnt have any issues.

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post #6 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

HDMI Dynamic level is the corresponding setting. Standard matches up with limited, and Expanded matches up with full. If you did it manually, you'd find that standard/limited looks basically the same as expanded/full. Despite the way the wording makes it sound, expanded is a very minor bump over standard. The blacks wont be any blacker, the whites wont be any whiter, there will just be a minor, basically imperceptible improvement in smoothly it can track from dark to light. You can go ahead and set it to expanded/full if you want, but you honestly wont be able to tell the difference. The setting is just there for compatibility reasons. Same with the color space....its not about better or worse, its about setting it correctly to match. For color space, the xbox should have an auto setting, and the TV should as well, and then you shouldnt have any issues.

Thanks for that clarification bd2003. Just for kicks and giggles I will try to manually match the settings like you said and see if I can see this imperceptible improvement. As long as it don't make it worse like it used to, then I will be happy and leave it. Cause after all, the input is dedicated to the XBox, so why not ?

I get the concept though, as far as it being totally more of a compatibility thing and not a quality/better thing. Just having fun tinkering is all, and I really appreciate the great info and knowledge shared.
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post #7 of 18 Old 12-17-2012, 08:01 PM
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I set my TV to except a full RGB signal and my Xbox to Expanded. If a YcbCr signal is sent,(DVD, Blu Ray, or cable) my TV does not let me choose between a limited or full RGB signal because that setting no longer apply's. So on my display I never have to change the settings back and forth when viewing different content. I know all displays are different though. I have switched back and forth between limited and full RGB and, as previously stated in this thread, I really couldn't tell a difference. I just like knowing that its being displayed in full RGB. I guess it's more of an OCD thing haha....
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-19-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

HDMI Dynamic level is the corresponding setting. Standard matches up with limited, and Expanded matches up with full. If you did it manually, you'd find that standard/limited looks basically the same as expanded/full. Despite the way the wording makes it sound, expanded is a very minor bump over standard. The blacks wont be any blacker, the whites wont be any whiter, there will just be a minor, basically imperceptible improvement in smoothly it can track from dark to light. You can go ahead and set it to expanded/full if you want, but you honestly wont be able to tell the difference. The setting is just there for compatibility reasons. Same with the color space....its not about better or worse, its about setting it correctly to match. For color space, the xbox should have an auto setting, and the TV should as well, and then you shouldnt have any issues.

Thanks for that clarification bd2003. Just for kicks and giggles I will try to manually match the settings like you said and see if I can see this imperceptible improvement. As long as it don't make it worse like it used to, then I will be happy and leave it. Cause after all, the input is dedicated to the XBox, so why not ?

I get the concept though, as far as it being totally more of a compatibility thing and not a quality/better thing. Just having fun tinkering is all, and I really appreciate the great info and knowledge shared.

The only problem is that sometimes software isn't compliant with the setting. I think some of the valve games had their own setting for TV/PC in the options. VUDU on my PS3 completely crushes black if I try to set both to full as well.

There's no telling if or how software will react to it, although 99% of the time....it's fine. The safest thing is 16-235...it's the HDTV standard.

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post #9 of 18 Old 12-19-2012, 09:50 PM
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The only problem is that sometimes software isn't compliant with the setting. I think some of the valve games had their own setting for TV/PC in the options. VUDU on my PS3 completely crushes black if I try to set both to full as well.
There's no telling if or how software will react to it, although 99% of the time....it's fine. The safest thing is 16-235...it's the HDTV standard.

Hmmm if it created black crush with both the display and system set to Full RGB, wouldn't it also crush the blacks with both set to limited RGB? If the software is displaying out of whack black levels wouldn't you have to counteract that by setting your display to Full rgb and sytem to limited? Normally that would would give you a washed out look, and is incorrect, but in that situation it would actually fix the problem.

The only time I have really noticed incorrect black levels was when Microsoft came out with there last dashboard update and apps that played video would be all washed out. I would have to set my display to limited and leave my Xbox at full to get rid of the washed out look and get the correct levels for video playback. It didn't effect games though, just video playback in apps. It's a problem on an app by app basis, and some of them have been fixed.
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post #10 of 18 Old 12-20-2012, 05:02 AM
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Hmmm if it created black crush with both the display and system set to Full RGB, wouldn't it also crush the blacks with both set to limited RGB? If the software is displaying out of whack black levels wouldn't you have to counteract that by setting your display to Full rgb and sytem to limited? Normally that would would give you a washed out look, and is incorrect, but in that situation it would actually fix the problem.
The only time I have really noticed incorrect black levels was when Microsoft came out with there last dashboard update and apps that played video would be all washed out. I would have to set my display to limited and leave my Xbox at full to get rid of the washed out look and get the correct levels for video playback. It didn't effect games though, just video playback in apps. It's a problem on an app by app basis, and some of them have been fixed.

Yeah, normally it isn't a problem. If everything is compliant, there's nothing wrong with expanded/full, it should convert video as needed to maintain the correct black levels. It's just that if there's something non-compliant, and there occasionally is.....it'll probably only be screwed in the expanded/full setting. I don't want to overstate the problem, it's pretty rare.

After this thread I even figured what the hell, why not full? Changed it on my 360 and ps3. Watched half of the avengers on vudu thinking "man this is a really dark movie". A few too many scenes with blacks so crushed that the background was basically all back, I set my ps3 and tv back to standard - and it looked right again.

TVs expect 16-235. Consoles and blu-rays are made for TVs. It's still the "right" setting, even if you could make a case that 0-255 is marginally better.

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post #11 of 18 Old 12-20-2012, 06:21 AM
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OP, I haven't read everybody's responses on the topic, but here's my two:

I own, a 2008 Sony BRAVIA LCD TV, and the "Standard" setting without a doubt, works the best. I got my console hooked up through HDMI, for the record, and play at 1080p. Color space - Auto.

If you want your TV to use Expanded at 1080p, you may need to calibrate it, to get the desired result. However, I doubt it'll have an impact and the blacks will most likely look really black, and the greys may continue to look a little black. A "black crush", in other words.

On the other hand, if you select a PC resolution like 1366 X 768, where all the enhancement settings are greyed out in the menu, you'll need to use the expanded setting to see the grays and blacks accurately. I'm not going to dive into a lot of detail, but now you have two options on the table.

In either case, you'll get accurate colors, no matter how old or new your TV is. Don't rely too much on the hype or info you read on the internet. Although AVS is probably one of the best resources online to get the facts straight! biggrin.gif

Just stick to 1080p with the Standard setting, and enjoy the gaming experience! smile.gif
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post #12 of 18 Old 12-20-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OARevolution View Post

I set my TV to except a full RGB signal and my Xbox to Expanded. If a YcbCr signal is sent,(DVD, Blu Ray, or cable) my TV does not let me choose between a limited or full RGB signal because that setting no longer apply's. So on my display I never have to change the settings back and forth when viewing different content. I know all displays are different though. I have switched back and forth between limited and full RGB and, as previously stated in this thread, I really couldn't tell a difference. I just like knowing that its being displayed in full RGB. I guess it's more of an OCD thing haha....
Hmmm, on my TV I do not get a choice of RGB or another setting. It is just either "ITU601" or "ITU709" or "Auto". But on my Xbox I see it give the choice of RGB and a few other things (as you know), but since I do not have RGB on my tv choices, I just set the TV to "Auto" and then the Xbox to "Source". To me that seemed like the most logical setting to make sure I am viewing the color as the source intended, and then hopefully my TV just automatically gets onboard to whatever that is .

Do you think this is a wrong setting ? My TV is so new, I am surprised it doesn't give me more choices. And what exactly are these ITU settings anyway ?

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The only problem is that sometimes software isn't compliant with the setting. I think some of the valve games had their own setting for TV/PC in the options. VUDU on my PS3 completely crushes black if I try to set both to full as well.

There's no telling if or how software will react to it, although 99% of the time....it's fine. The safest thing is 16-235...it's the HDTV standard.

Ok, well after extensive testing, (BTW I only use my Xbox for video games, nothing else ever), I have noticed that the best setting for Skyrim (thats the whole thing this thread is practically over) is my TV HDMI Dynamic Range on "FULL" BUT the XBox on "Intermediate". I see all talk here about Expanded or Standard, but never Intermediate.

See, like you said, on Limited and Standard, everything looks fine. On Full and Expanded every single black area is just completely crushed/clipped. As in, I step into a shadow, and literally its a black hole of void, I can no longer see myself. And I can not see anything at all in shadowed areas... blacks are completely clipped.

But with Xbox on Intermediate and TV on Full, it looks like Standard and Limited, but with a touch better look and "pop". Blacks are not too dark, but they are slightly better than on STandard/Limited.

BUT when I try Intermediate/Limited, or any other combination not mentioned it either looks washed out (no blacks) or complete black clipping (too much blacks).

So is this correct sounding ? What exactly is Intermediate ? And why would it look best with my TV on Full ? Or is it my imagination ? Also, what about my color choices issue I described above ? Any input on that ?

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Hmmm if it created black crush with both the display and system set to Full RGB, wouldn't it also crush the blacks with both set to limited RGB? If the software is displaying out of whack black levels wouldn't you have to counteract that by setting your display to Full rgb and sytem to limited? Normally that would would give you a washed out look, and is incorrect, but in that situation it would actually fix the problem.

The only time I have really noticed incorrect black levels was when Microsoft came out with there last dashboard update and apps that played video would be all washed out. I would have to set my display to limited and leave my Xbox at full to get rid of the washed out look and get the correct levels for video playback. It didn't effect games though, just video playback in apps. It's a problem on an app by app basis, and some of them have been fixed.
Well as I stated above, he seems to be correct, as when I have my Xbox on "Expanded" and my TV on "Full" Skyrim is in total over blacked out territory. Just as he described his movies. Though I'm still debating if this is my TV's issue for not accepting a "Expanded" signal, or not being able to switch to RGB or whatever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

OP, I haven't read everybody's responses on the topic, but here's my two:

I own, a 2008 Sony BRAVIA LCD TV, and the "Standard" setting without a doubt, works the best. I got my console hooked up through HDMI, for the record, and play at 1080p. Color space - Auto.

If you want your TV to use Expanded at 1080p, you may need to calibrate it, to get the desired result. However, I doubt it'll have an impact and the blacks will most likely look really black, and the greys may continue to look a little black. A "black crush", in other words.

On the other hand, if you select a PC resolution like 1366 X 768, where all the enhancement settings are greyed out in the menu, you'll need to use the expanded setting to see the grays and blacks accurately. I'm not going to dive into a lot of detail, but now you have two options on the table.

In either case, you'll get accurate colors, no matter how old or new your TV is. Don't rely too much on the hype or info you read on the internet. Although AVS is probably one of the best resources online to get the facts straight! biggrin.gif

Just stick to 1080p with the Standard setting, and enjoy the gaming experience! smile.gif
Thanks for the input. I seemed to have found a awesome setting, which as I am asking above, I don't know why it is more awesome, it just is. XBox set to "Intermediate" and my TV to "Full", color space on TV set to "Auto" and on XBox set to "Source". But I am unsure if this is just because of Skyrim ? Or what ?

Also, do you know why Sony seems to not give us a RGB choice in Color Space ?

Has anyone heard that the XBox has Gamma issues ? Like its Gamma is off ? I heard this somewhere. I got a awesome calibration BD and calibrated my TV by myself, it looks AWESOME for bluRay movies, etc.. on my Oppo BDP. HA HA, I was trippin though, cause my plan was to also put in my XBox and calibrate it to it (since I heard this Gamma issue) so I could get the Xbox looking "correct"..... well, as we know, (cause it totally slipped my mind) the XBox would not play my Disney WOW calibration BD ! LOL -- SO now I can not calibrate to my XBox.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-20-2012, 05:10 PM
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Why intermediate exists I have no idea, it adheres to no standard I know of.

Skyrim is very dark on a calibrated TV, the better solution is just to bump the brightness/gamma up a few notches in the game options.

The ITU stuff is color space, completely independent of black level/dynamic range. ITU709 is the official HDTV/BR color standard, 601 is the DVD standard. RGB is the PC standard.

Like with the dynamic range option, RGB is technically slightly superior, but its a PC standard, and you're using a TV. Unlike film, games don't have a clearly defined calibration target - but if there was going to be one, the only sane one would be to use the one that already exists. Even if RGB/709 look different, the 709 is therefore probably more "correct."

All video, movies, etc - is 709. Games are rendered internally at RGB, but the Xbox has no problem converting this to 709, and the end result after this conversion is probably the closest to the developers intent.

The Xbox has an auto option, I'd advise you use it.

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post #14 of 18 Old 12-20-2012, 07:10 PM
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JoelXD, if you are getting too much black crush when your have your tv set on full and your Xbox set to expanded maybe your TV doesn't except Full range RGB properly. Either that or maybe its a calibration issue. Or as bd2003 stated maybe Skyrim is just that dark of a game.

I have a Sammy Plasma that excepts full range RGB and displays it properly. I haven't had any problem with black crush. That includes games and video apps. If I set my tv and xbox up for limited RGB it looks pretty much exactly the same as when set to full RGB, as it should. I really can't tell any discernible difference. I have no black crush or washed out look either way.

Now I also have a Infocus IN76 projector that for some reason doesn't display full rgb properly. It gives my picture a very washed out look. If I use limited RGB it looks great. Maybe its just a problem on a display by display basis.
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-21-2012, 09:03 PM
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Mine defaulted to standard and rgb using hdmi. I have a LG 55LE7300. Says the 360 will select the optimal settings automatically. So, I let it do its thing and have not touched it since.

HDMI Color Space settings

Auto: Automatically set to RGB or YCbCr for resolution and content type based on HDMI recommendations.

Source: Automatically set to RGB or YCbCr based on the game or video source.

RGB: Set for HDMI-compliant displays. Displays games and videos in RGB format.

YCbCr709: Typically used for high-definition movies.

YCbCr601: Typically used for standard-definition movies.
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post #16 of 18 Old 12-28-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the input and help.

I have to make a correction now. After more long viewing and testing, I do agree that setting the XBox to Standard and my TV to "Auto" I get the best results. BUT I will tell you, that if I set the XBox to Expanded, I get Black Clipping/Crush. If I set it to Intermediate, I get it washed out. This applies as well when I mimic the same settings manually to their respective compatible counterparts (Expanded to Full, etc..) and every other possible configuration. I did that just in case my tvs "auto" was wrong, AND to see what my TV's "Auto" was setting it to.

Again, the best picture in ALL cases is when the TV is set to Auto, and the XBox to Standard. So yea, I guess my TV doesn't recognize the Expanded protocol. :-( But as I heard, I'm missing nothing :-) Just seems weird a TV of this level would not be that bad azz.

Color, I see absolutely no difference what any setting is on, so I took bd2003's advice and I just set that to Auto on BOTH my TV and the XBox.

Thanks again for all the help you all gave me. I guess this is a closed chapter at this point.
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-28-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Thanks everyone for the input and help.
I have to make a correction now. After more long viewing and testing, I do agree that setting the XBox to Standard and my TV to "Auto" I get the best results. BUT I will tell you, that if I set the XBox to Expanded, I get Black Clipping/Crush. If I set it to Intermediate, I get it washed out. This applies as well when I mimic the same settings manually to their respective compatible counterparts (Expanded to Full, etc..) and every other possible configuration. I did that just in case my tvs "auto" was wrong, AND to see what my TV's "Auto" was setting it to.
Again, the best picture in ALL cases is when the TV is set to Auto, and the XBox to Standard. So yea, I guess my TV doesn't recognize the Expanded protocol. :-( But as I heard, I'm missing nothing :-) Just seems weird a TV of this level would not be that bad azz.
Color, I see absolutely no difference what any setting is on, so I took bd2003's advice and I just set that to Auto on BOTH my TV and the XBox.
Thanks again for all the help you all gave me. I guess this is a closed chapter at this point.

Well, I looked up more on the color settings, and 709 and sRGB share the same gamut, so theyre two ways of getting to the same result. If the conversion is done right, you shouldnt see a lick of difference, so its obviously being done right.

I dunno why your TV doesnt support expanded black levels, it should....although perhaps you might just need to recalibrate the black level for each particular setting. But again...its just not worth worrying about, stick with the standard method.

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post #18 of 18 Old 12-28-2012, 11:04 PM
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^^Well, if I set my TV to use a PC resolution such as 1366 X 768 (which it selects when I go with the Optimal Resolution setting), then I need to set ref. levels to Expanded, to get the correct greys and blacks.

With 1080p, 1:1 pixel mapping, I always go with Auto, RGB, Standard.

1080p looks way better than 1366 X 768, up close or from a distance.
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