Lay this to rest please: 720p or 1080p for gaming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-04-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I've visited many forums, posted a few threads here and there, but I'm somewhat hazy so as to the best possible resolution to enjoy X360 gaming.

I also tried searching the AVS forums for this topic in particular, but turned up zilch.

They say 720p native is far better than 1080p upscaled irrespective of screen size, make/type or model.

What are your thoughts?

My screen's specs:

40" full 1080p, 2008 model LCD TV, 60 Hz, 8 bit panel. 8 ms response time. Any other details needed?

I shall eagerly await your feedback! smile.gif
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post #2 of 21 Old 03-04-2013, 11:22 AM
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I set my 360 to 1080p.
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 AM
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I say... match the native resolution of your display to reduce processing lag since the scaler in the 360 is pretty good.
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post #4 of 21 Old 03-05-2013, 03:03 AM
 
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If your display is 1080p, or 768p with 1080p inputs, then set the 360 to spit out 1080p. Source-side scaling is better than display-side scaling.
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post #5 of 21 Old 03-05-2013, 08:50 AM
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agree with everyone. Match your displays native resolution of 1080p.
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-05-2013, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Right on bros.

My display's native res IS 1080p. And games of course, look visibily sweeter at that resolution.

Some "experts" still contest that 720p, since it's the games' native resolution, is the best way to go, in order to have the best performance, least lag ... blah blah.

So, discussion closed then?
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-05-2013, 10:28 AM
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Yes. The scaler in the 360 is fast and pretty good.
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post #8 of 21 Old 03-05-2013, 03:42 PM
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You probably wont notice a difference either way quite honestly but if you set it up to output 720p that would have your display doing more processing during the upscale conversion. If you let the 360 do the scaling then your display doesn't have to do anything which in theory would give you less lag. The signal has to be scaled somewhere so you might as well have it scaled before it gets to your display.
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-06-2013, 12:09 PM
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I've tested it before (using rock band and many, many repeats) - and setting the 360 to 720p had less lag. Not surprised that the scaler in a 2011 TV can do it faster than one in a 2005 console. It was on the order of 10ms, so not a huge deal - but if you regularly play any games that are sub 720p (like cod), then you'll be scaling on the Xbox to 720p anyway, so I still just leave it at 1080p.

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post #10 of 21 Old 03-07-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, some of these last comments left me a bit confused;

Setting it to 720p results in more scaling? I don't understand how that works exactly, but I'm leaving mine at 1080p, since it simply looks better. Every detail, every bit just stands out that much more. Not to mention less jaggies, and a cleaner looking image.

I must mention though, at 720p, 30 fps games appear to move a little smoother, but not by much. It's hardly worth noting.
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

Right on bros.

My display's native res IS 1080p. And games of course, look visibily sweeter at that resolution.

Some "experts" still contest that 720p, since it's the games' native resolution, is the best way to go, in order to have the best performance, least lag ... blah blah.

So, discussion closed then?

Actually, best performance would be matching you TV's native resolution, since there'd be no lag set side (TV doesn't do the processing, the better scaler in your console does). There's really no lag console side either way you choose, since there's a dedicated hardware scaler there doing the work.

Changing from 720/1080 is not changing the native resolution of a game at all, like you would on a PC. It's only changing the scaling of the game, which in most cases is sub 720P anyways. Native res on console never changes, just how much they scale it up or down.

Edit: Much newer TV's might finally have the better scaling processors, but you really have to test it yourself. Most also come with lots of post processing effects on that drastically increase latency, which really should be turned off if possible (ie game mode)
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-07-2013, 02:37 PM
 
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"but if you regularly play any games that are sub 720p (like cod), then you'll be scaling on the Xbox to 720p anyway"

Not in relation to the topic. To over-simplify: Sub-720p games scale internally to the game, then overlay the 720p HUD/interface, then hand off to the OS. In the case of something like COD, the 600p render in effect gets scaled twice when the 360 outputs 1080p. Once from 600p to 720p inside the game. Then a second time from 720p to 1080p at the OS level. It does not skip directly from 600p to 1080p as you implied.


"Native res on console never changes,"

Rarely changes, not "never".
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post #13 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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^^Interesting.

So you guys mostly play games at 1080p, 720p or "optimal resolution"?

What about movies?
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"but if you regularly play any games that are sub 720p (like cod), then you'll be scaling on the Xbox to 720p anyway"

Not in relation to the topic. To over-simplify: Sub-720p games scale internally to the game, then overlay the 720p HUD/interface, then hand off to the OS. In the case of something like COD, the 600p render in effect gets scaled twice when the 360 outputs 1080p. Once from 600p to 720p inside the game. Then a second time from 720p to 1080p at the OS level. It does not skip directly from 600p to 1080p as you implied.


"Native res on console never changes,"

Rarely changes, not "never".

Not true. Every game is different, but more recent Cods go straight from its res (600p) to whatever you set - 720p, 1080p, etc. There is no higher res UI overlay in this case. For reference: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241.
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In upscaling to 1080p, some games may first scale to 720p in software before the GPU scales to a 1080p output. e.g. RR6, SCIV, VF5, CoD4, H3, TR:L...
Some games let the GPU handle the scaling to 1080p directly from the arbitrary resolution. e.g. MotoGP 06, PGR3, ESIV:O...

You can even see the switch happen to 600p if the OS UI pops up while loading (like a friend logging in) - if it happens when the res switch does, it'll blink out and come back blurrier, because the internal resolution of even the UI subsystem has dropped.

So with a 1080p TV, in those games that scale directly to the res you set - if you set 1080p, the 360 scales once, to 1080p. If you set to 720p - the 360 scales to 720p, and your TV scales to 1080p. Double scaling isn't great for image quality or lag.

But if you have a TV that can scale 720p-1080p faster than the 360 (you'll have to test it) - if you put in a 720p native game, the 360 doesn't have to scale at all, the TV will do it faster, and you'll save a few ms of lag.

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post #15 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

^^Interesting.

So you guys mostly play games at 1080p, 720p or "optimal resolution"?

What about movies?

When in doubt, just set the 360 to 1080p. The 360 scaler is fast and good. I only mention the above in case you're looking for the slightest edge in something like a fighting game - if you're *10000% sure* the game is native 720p, and you're *10000% sure* your TV has a faster scaler than the 360, you might be able to save a frame of lag.

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post #16 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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Not true. Every game is different, but more recent Cods go straight from its res (600p) to whatever you set - 720p, 1080p, etc. There is no higher res UI overlay in this case. For reference: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241.
You can even see the switch happen to 600p if the OS UI pops up while loading (like a friend logging in) - if it happens when the res switch does, it'll blink out and come back blurrier, because the internal resolution of even the UI subsystem has dropped.

So with a 1080p TV, in those games that scale directly to the res you set - if you set 1080p, the 360 scales once, to 1080p. If you set to 720p - the 360 scales to 720p, and your TV scales to 1080p. Double scaling isn't great for image quality or lag.

But if you have a TV that can scale 720p-1080p faster than the 360 (you'll have to test it) - if you put in a 720p native game, the 360 doesn't have to scale at all, the TV will do it faster, and you'll save a few ms of lag.

Hmm.. This has me wondering...

I have a Sony KP57WS520, which is a crt based rear projection HDTV from 2004. The native resolution for this set is 1080i. It will accept a 720p signal, but I believe it converts it to 1080i. To optimize Black Ops 2 / COD performance, what would you think would be the best setting for my situation - 720p or 1080i?
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post #17 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rage Guy View Post

Hmm.. This has me wondering...

I have a Sony KP57WS520, which is a crt based rear projection HDTV from 2004. The native resolution for this set is 1080i. It will accept a 720p signal, but I believe it converts it to 1080i. To optimize Black Ops 2 / COD performance, what would you think would be the best setting for my situation - 720p or 1080i?

That old a set is definitely native 1080i. I'd expect that the scaler in your 360 is faster than the one in your TV, so set the 360 to 1080i.

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post #18 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rage Guy View Post

Hmm.. This has me wondering...

I have a Sony KP57WS520, which is a crt based rear projection HDTV from 2004. The native resolution for this set is 1080i. It will accept a 720p signal, but I believe it converts it to 1080i. To optimize Black Ops 2 / COD performance, what would you think would be the best setting for my situation - 720p or 1080i?

I think CRT's actually change their native resolution to what ever you feed. (If they except that signal) They don't scale. So if you feed it 720p that's what it's displaying. At least that's how an older CRT I had worked.
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 09:52 AM
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That old a set is definitely native 1080i. I'd expect that the scaler in your 360 is faster than the one in your TV, so set the 360 to 1080i.

I don't think this is the case with CRT technology. To the best of my knowledge it displays the full resolution of signals it accepts. It doesn't scale.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 09:54 AM
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I've had monitors that could, but TVs that can do true 720p were the minority. The Sony CRT HDTVs that I had def couldn't. It could do 480i, 480p, 1080i, but 720p would scale to 1080i. A lot of people had issues with the PS3 in the early days where they had 1080i TVs that couldn't even accept 720p at all.

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post #21 of 21 Old 03-08-2013, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I've had monitors that could, but TVs that can do true 720p were the minority. The Sony CRT HDTVs that I had def couldn't. It could do 480i, 480p, 1080i, but 720p would scale to 1080i. A lot of people had issues with the PS3 in the early days where they had 1080i TVs that couldn't even accept 720p at all.

You're right. I had an old CRT that wouldn't accept 720p. It wouldn't scale it to 1080i though, it just wouldn't accept it at all. So yeah it most likely scales the 720p signal 1080i. Mine didn't even have that feature. I couldn't even play my PS3 at HD levels on certain games on that TV.
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