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post #6661 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:10 AM
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Shutting down servers has always been an issue with gaming.

I remember playing the old Delta Force games when I was a lot younger and then all the sudden the servers were going down and I had to go buy a new one. This is nothing new.

The only time this doesnt happen is if a game allows people to host private servers, which frankly I think should be allowed. However, a console games are more restrictive in this aspect. Even with private servers it can still be very difficult to even get in a game.

Nothing new here. Does it suck? yes! but it is something that we all have to live with. Games become less popular, people move on to newer games with better graphics...etc.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #6662 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:14 AM
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People need to push back harder instead of bending over. In a big way they did that with XBOne when it was first shown, and it paid off.

Every time some new always online/phone home/cloud DRM type scheme gets released we always ask "well what happens when the servers get shut down?" To which we are told by apologists "that's not realistic, it won't happen, blah, blah, blah." Yet here is an example of exactly that happening with a game less than a year old (and its nowhere CLOSE to being the first time its happened, ask people who bought WMV-HD DRM movies) and its met with dismissal and apathy by the same apologists who claim it would never happen.

They don't really care what kind of screw-the-consumer policies get implemented; as long as they get their Forzas and their Titanfalls they're happy.
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post #6663 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

Shutting down servers has always been an issue with gaming.

I remember playing the old Delta Force games when I was a lot younger and then all the sudden the servers were going down and I had to go buy a new one. This is nothing new.

You could still play Delta Force single player. Stop making excuses for this crap.
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post #6664 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

I just replied to your post. You therefore "elicited a response." Does that mean you were trolling?
Nice straw man. Sorry, but they were two totally different scenarios. Did my post say, "This was has been a great discussion with the exception of all the whining Sony fanboys who will never be happy?" No, but that is what happened earlier and that is what I called out. On one hand Tyrant says there has been no trolling in this thread and in the next sentence he calls everyone who disagreed with him a "whiner." I think this horse has been sufficiently punished.
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post #6665 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

I just replied to your post. You therefore "elicited a response." Does that mean you were trolling?

To me, saying something like, "I think Kinect sucks" is no more trolling than saying "I think Kinect is the greatest thing ever." You're likely to get a response either way. Remember, this thread isn't called "The Xbox One Lover's Only Thread." People should be able to express opinions on either side of the fence without fear that those with Red Flag Syndrome are going to get them banned. I seriously doubt that anyone is actually being "offended" by comments about a console. (When it gets personal, that's different, but that's also rare here.)

Unfortunately, the term "troll" has now evolved into meaning "anyone that disagrees with me" to many.

Almost fully agreed. Clearly this isn't true as we have some getting offended and marking every post that is seen as the slightest threat, negativity, non100% praise of MS or the system.
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post #6666 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:27 AM
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For reference, I haven't flagged a single post and I don't support anyone who has been doing that. I've been on the receiving end and I think it is absurd. I think we can banter back and forth without trying to get people banned. If someone really got under my skin I would put them on ignore.
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post #6667 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Almost fully agreed. Clearly this isn't true as we have some getting offended and marking every post that is seen as the slightest threat, negativity, non100% praise of MS or the system.

Ironically those are the people offering the least to the discussion. They pop in every ten pages or so just to launch into a tirade telling people who don't worship the Xbox to leave.
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post #6668 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

For reference, I haven't flagged a single post and I don't support anyone who has been doing that. I've been on the receiving end and I think it is absurd. I think we can banter back and forth without trying to get people banned. If someone really got under my skin I would put them on ignore.

Similar. I simply don't respond to certain people or certain posts.
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post #6669 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

Yeah, it's actually a very poor design. It's a turn-based strategy game where all of the parts of the battle are rendered on the cloud, not your device. So you make a move, and then you wait five minutes or so for the video to be rendered so that you can see the results of that move.

It sounds like they tried to simplify having the game on both the phone and tablet and in the process of doing so made it a bad experience for the user.

Still, it does suck that they're ending it at the end of the year.

Speaking of online experiences that Microsoft has cancelled, is it just me or would stuff like the 360's "1 vs 100" really fit in well on the Xbox One, with its focus on all forms of entertainment, not just gaming? I'd really love to see unique stuff like that come back this generation.

I wish they would bring something like 1 vs. 100 back. I really liked it because it was something that my GF also liked to play. We were playing it every weekend.

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post #6670 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

Shutting down servers has always been an issue with gaming.

I remember playing the old Delta Force games when I was a lot younger and then all the sudden the servers were going down and I had to go buy a new one. This is nothing new.

shutting down games is the reason I try to avoid EA games when I can. heck, they even have a service updates page that they expect people to regularly visit to know what games are being discontinued:

http://www.ea.com/1/service-updates

some of the games weren't even out for a year before they got discontinued. It's funny how people are religious and trying to get me to do BF3 and other EA games. been burned too many times with EA game shut downs. at least I know that every single COD can still be played online. Activision has never shut down any of my games. yet I can give a laundry list of EA games I own that have been shut down.
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post #6671 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:43 AM
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Couldn't find the source but this was statement from MS PR Bowing from Neogaf
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The part that surprised me the most is the belief that we've somehow "lost our vision" or that we are "radically different" from what we announced.

Are we listening and adjusting the plans? We are. Are we making some concessions in areas where people have strong feelings? We are.

Are we altering our vision or losing faith? No.

We made one policy decision that was a major reversal around digital rights vs. physical media. It was the only time major features were changed, like family sharing, and some of the online check-in stuff that was related to it. It was the right call.

If you go back to the Unveil and E3 conferences, today's announcement doesn't change or diminish what we've said we were doing at all. All we said today is that we weren't going to brick the box if Kinect was unplugged. People making a leap thinking that means we've completely disconnected Kinect from the system would be wrong.

Once you guys experience the console, some of the criticisms may be valid, and many won't. The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash - things like instant switching, snap mode, sign-in, and search are going to be vastly superior with Kinect. There is no controller UI that will beat "Xbox, Snap Skype", or "Xbox, Go to Killer Instinct".

The idea that the controller is the best way to navigate makes sense in reference to Xbox 360, but it's not true in Xbox One. You can completely control the dash with a controller, but many cases are deprecated versions of how it will work with voice.

If we were to remove Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen. This was a very minor policy change, for people who had privacy concerns or repair issues. As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature. But knowing it's there as an option is important.

Anyway, that's all my commentary on this. Bowing out for the evening.

The 5.0 is here
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post #6672 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I wish they would bring something like 1 vs. 100 back. I really liked it because it was something that my GF also liked to play. We were playing it every weekend.

yeah, that would be cool. they just couldn't get the advertisers to back the game. the only advertiser they ever got was Sprint.
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post #6673 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:45 AM
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as long as we are talking about trolling, i am very glad the name thing is being enforced. i am having PTSD, from my childhood, people called me Bend Over, Benjamin Franklin, etc.. I was scarred and always told my teacher or my mom to make people stop calling me derogatory names...... oh wait, sorry that is only partly true, i did have numerous people call me names like that, but i just laughed and went on with my day, you know because it was no big deal, it was just a stupid name.

'But in keeping with the idea from now on please only refer to me by the list of approved names below

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post #6674 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

as long as we are talking about trolling, i am very glad the name thing is being enforced. i am having PTSD, from my childhood, people called me Bend Over, Benjamin Franklin, etc.. I was scarred and always told my teacher or my mom to make people stop calling me derogatory names...... oh wait, sorry that is only partly true, i did have numerous people call me names like that, but i just laughed and went on with my day, you know because it was no big deal, it was just a stupid name.

'But in keeping with the idea from now on please only refer to me by the list of approved names below

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But what if somebody gave your favorite pencil a nickname like YellowBone? Did you cry? I know my dog didn't like the name MilkBone, it was very offensive since it wasn't really a bone.
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post #6675 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 10:10 AM
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I never read this article back in 2006. But I was reading an Arstechnica article on the new Kinect that referenced this article and it's a pretty interesting talk about developing Microsoft getting into developing silicon. As you guys know, the new Kinect 2.0 is pretty much the most ambitious foray into silicon that Microsoft has gotten into. It's completely internally designed:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-15/microsoft-s-first-chip-brings-tank-finding-design-to-xbox.html

excerpts:

Microsoft Looks Within to Design and Test Chips

For more than two decades, Microsoft’s software and Intel’s processors were so wedded that the pairing came to be known as Wintel. But as that computing era wanes, Microsoft is turning to a new source of chip design: its own labs.

The design effort will initially be split between research labs at the company’s headquarters in Redmond, Wash., and its Silicon Valley campus here. Tentatively named the Computer Architecture Group, the project underscores sweeping changes in the industry.

One reason for the effort is that Microsoft needs to begin thinking about the next-generation design of its Xbox game console, said Charles P. Thacker, a veteran engineer and Microsoft engineer who will head the Silicon Valley group. Voice recognition may also be an area where the research could play a significant role.

“Voice is big,” Mr. Thacker said. “You can throw as much technology at it as you want to.”

Microsoft is exploring hardware design now in part because of a new set of tools that will make it possible to test ideas quickly, he said. The researchers will employ a system designed by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, that makes it possible to reconfigure computer designs without the cost of making finished chips.

In recent years, the computing model centered on the desktop PC has increasingly given way to new, more specialized markets like video games and cellphones. As Microsoft has moved to enter these markets, it has increasingly designed hardware, software and packaging that are made by independent contractors but marketed under the Microsoft or Windows brand.

The explosion of chips with an increasing number of “cores,” or multiple processors, is bringing parallel computing — the ability to divide tasks for faster processing — into the consumer electronics market. That could give companies like Microsoft a competitive advantage by controlling both hardware and software and the way they interact.

“This is a historic time in the computer industry,” said David A. Patterson, a computer scientist at the University of California, Berkeley. “We’re in the middle of a revolutionary change toward parallel computing that will absolutely involve both hardware and software.”

Mr. Thacker, 63, has been at the forefront of technology advances in the past, having been part of the group at Xerox’s Palo Alto Research Center that designed the Alto, the first modern personal computer, and the Ethernet office network during the 1970’s.

After working at Xerox, Mr. Thacker joined a Digital Equipment Corporation research laboratory where he led the design of an experimental computer called Firefly, a model for some ideas just now being commercialized in single-chip designs.

He joined Microsoft in 1999 to help design the tablet computer based on ideas he had helped pioneer at Xerox in the 1970’s in the form of an experimental notebook computer called the Dynabook. Several companies now make commercial products based on that design, and Mr. Thacker said Microsoft was working on a smaller education-oriented version that was not yet public.

Mr. Thacker acknowledged that despite vast increases in computer power, ease of use still confounded computer designers.

“It’s pretty hard for a geek to internalize the experience of an ordinary user,” he said, noting that his wife still avoids computers.

Progress will be made there, too, he insisted.

“Like everything that Microsoft gets into, we’re in it for the long run,” he said.
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post #6676 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Almost fully agreed. Clearly this isn't true as we have some getting offended and marking every post that is seen as the slightest threat, negativity, non100% praise of MS or the system.

Personally, I find it offensive that the real offenders are feigning "offense" when no offense has been committed...offensively.
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post #6677 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 10:20 AM
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Personally, I find it offensive that the real offenders are feigning "offense" when no offense has been committed...offensively.
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post #6678 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Couldn't find the source but this was statement from MS PR Bowing from Neogaf
Quote:
...If we were to remove Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen. This was a very minor policy change, for people who had privacy concerns or repair issues. As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature. But knowing it's there as an option is important.

They keep vomiting words that they'll have to eat later rolleyes.gif. No one's asking them to "remove Kinect from the bundle", just to create a new SKU w/o Kinect. I've got to believe that it's coming.
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post #6679 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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More good controller news from IGN:
IGN article about XB1 controller (Click to show)
This week's Call of Duty: Ghosts event wasn't just the first opportunity to see the game's much-anticipated multiplayer content, it was also my first chance to see how the new Xbox One controller performs when playing a competitive first-person shooter. While the controller wasn't paired with the Xbox One console — rather, PCs configured to next-gen specs — the demos highlighted the new changes to the ergonomics, thumbsticks, d-pad, and trigger design.Upon starting the first match, the upgrades made to the thumbsticks were immediately apparent.

Microsoft has made the overall surface area of the thumbpads slightly smaller, but implemented texturized edges and a concave surface. The thumbsticks also have a wider range of motion, which affords increased precision. The minimum draw before an action is reflected on-screen is much smaller on the Xbox One than Xbox 360. Moving either stick slightly off center resulted in small movement or aim adjustments on-screen. Naturally, raising the in-game sensitivity made those small gestures result in a much larger on-screen action. Overall, players will seemingly have a much greater level of control and personalization when using the next-gen gamepad.

The other big change is the d-pad, which has long been a headache for shooter and fighting game fans on the Xbox 360.  This week's demo solidified that the era of the Xbox 360's loose, imprecise disc-based d-pad will soon be a distant memory. The 4-way button is incredibly responsive, with a distinctive click when calling in a killstreak. Most importantly, the design is easy to differentiate on-the-fly, so you can make quick, decisive taps without error.

After finding a lack of impulse trigger-enabled titles at E3, I had hoped that this week's event would finally showcase how the haptic feedback works with a shooter title. Unfortunately, my dreams were quickly dashed. While Microsoft has promises that the Xbox One controller will be capable of weapon-specific vibration effects, the rumble motors in the triggers were disabled.

All the same, I was able to get a feel for the new trigger and shoulder button designs, which have now taken on rounded, tapering edges. The shoulders and triggers now seamlessly blend with the base of the controller, which in effect, makes them feel like a natural extension of your fingers as you play. The design feels so good and intuitive, in fact, that I struggled to notice much else about them.

The Xbox One controller builds upon the Xbox 360's legacy as a proficient shooter gamepad. All of the ergonomic features you love are there with significant refinements and increased precision. With Sony making FPS-centric improvements for the DualShock 4, it'll be interesting to see which controller reigns supreme when the systems ship later this year.

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post #6680 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

They keep vomiting words that they'll have to eat later rolleyes.gif. No one's asking them to "remove Kinect from the bundle", just to create a new SKU w/o Kinect. I've got to believe that it's coming.

Almost that entire post is idiotic starting with the very first sentence "The part that surprised me the most is the belief that we've somehow "lost our vision" or that we are "radically different" from what we announced." Um yes, you are completely different now than what originally announced.
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post #6681 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:11 AM
 
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I for one don't think you have been trolling Tyrant. In fact...for the most part I think you have evoked provocative conversation. Conversation that mirrored what was being said all over the internet...including MS' dedicated website...Xbox Forum. And the very high negatives they were getting from Xbox.com I think got their attention more than anything. MS made huge mistakes with Xbox One. But I certainly don't think the console is a "turd". Never has been. The turd sandwich for a ton of people was all of the license restrictions MS tried to package around Xbox One. Restrictions that eliminated them from consideration by a large part of their install base. That was the foundation for their retreat...and probably the exit of Don Mattrick. Ballmer should have been escorted out too. Because of the way he completely botched the Windows 8, Win Phone 8, Surface, and XB1 launches on his watch. But with that said...Xbox One is a very impressive console. Especially as currently configured. So what if it is not a true Next Generation Gaming device. Neither is PS4. True Next generation is very expensive...and will be defined by costly PCs, New game franchises that present different experiences along with bleeding edge new gaming experiences like Oculus Rift. None of those new consoles were aimed at true next generation that way. MS tried to come closet. But the market read their attempt as over reach and arrogance.


Appreciate that. Especially since that’s what the forums are for, aren’t they?

Just for the record I was only arguing that their policies and outlook on how they wanted to shape control over gamers was the "the turd sandwich". The hardware have their differences, but the XBone is a very capable next generation gaming machine. Sony might have the slight edge, but like current gen I don’t think it’ll matter much to anyone besides the hardcore (for bragging rights) or AVS’ers (need that maximum quality). In the end the only important things is the games you like, and where you can meet up with your friends. And can anyone really argue that they will now sell millions more consoles for realizing their hard handed error and avoiding the giant iceberg Mattrick seemed bent on?

I think the beef for a lot of people was that they were trying to dictate the next generation. Problem is you need to very clearly show consumers how your product will benefit them, ESPECIALLY when you aim to take away other long appreciate features and value as the tradeoff. And even outside of the Xbox camp, a lot were worried at the terrible precedents it would set. People could dress up the grand plan however they like, but the facts were that MS was gearing up to take a lot of control and value away from gamers ($$$), with not much to show for the tradeoff besides nebulous PR on some vision of the future and guarded messaging on “huge benefits” that were never really detailed. People were not willing to give them the benefit of doubt without being showed the money.
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post #6682 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

as long as we are talking about trolling, i am very glad the name thing is being enforced. i am having PTSD, from my childhood, people called me Bend Over, Benjamin Franklin, etc.. I was scarred and always told my teacher or my mom to make people stop calling me derogatory names...... oh wait, sorry that is only partly true, i did have numerous people call me names like that, but i just laughed and went on with my day, you know because it was no big deal, it was just a stupid name.

'But in keeping with the idea from now on please only refer to me by the list of approved names below

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Lol, and I thought Benjamin was a safe name for my first kid. tongue.gif

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post #6683 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:23 AM
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Appreciate that. Especially since that’s what the forums are for, aren’t they?

Just for the record I was only arguing that their policies and outlook on how they wanted to shape control over gamers was the "the turd sandwich". The hardware have their differences, but the XBone is a very capable next generation gaming machine. Sony might have the slight edge, but like current gen I don’t think it’ll matter much to anyone besides the hardcore (for bragging rights) or AVS’ers (need that maximum quality). In the end the only important things is the games you like, and where you can meet up with your friends. And can anyone really argue that they will now sell millions more consoles for realizing their hard handed error and avoiding the giant iceberg Mattrick seemed bent on?

I think the beef for a lot of people was that they were trying to dictate the next generation. Problem is you need to very clearly show consumers how your product will benefit them, ESPECIALLY when you aim to take away other long appreciate features and value as the tradeoff. And even outside of the Xbox camp, a lot were worried at the terrible precedents it would set. People could dress up the grand plan however they like, but the facts were that MS was gearing up to take a lot of control and value away from gamers ($$$), with not much to show for the tradeoff besides nebulous PR on some vision of the future and guarded messaging on “huge benefits” that were never really detailed. People were not willing to give them the benefit of doubt without being showed the money.

There is always going to be a certain few that will say your are trolling no matter what. I got attacked, name called etc a month ago for saying it would have been nicer to have a Standard HDD in the 360 versus having to pay significantly more for a MS proprietary drive. Some just like the DRM (no renting, no reselling) polices preferred proprietary HDD. Of course I was the troll Sony fanboy for not agreeing with the ridiculously priced MS HDD's.
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post #6684 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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There is always going to be a certain few that will say your are trolling no matter what. I got attacked, name called etc a month ago for saying it would have been nicer to have a Standard HDD in the 360 versus having to pay significantly more for a MS proprietary drive. Some just like the DRM (no renting, no reselling) polices preferred proprietary HDD. Of course I was the troll Sony fanboy for not agreeing with the ridiculously priced MS HDD's.

I agree that I would like to be able to a standard hdd that I can replace. But I can also see why it isn't allowed. If someone puts a beat up old POS HDD inside their xbox with cat hair hanging out of the fan and then it overheats and dies or something, does that void the warranty or does MS have to eat it? i'm not sure what Sony's policy is.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as they are allowing external drives to operate exactly like the internal, I don't need to be able to replace the internal drive and therefore don't care if it's standard or proprietary.

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post #6685 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:32 AM
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I agree that I would like to be able to a standard hdd that I can replace. But I can also see why it isn't allowed. If someone puts a beat up old POS HDD inside their xbox with cat hair hanging out of the fan and then it overheats and dies or something, does that void the warranty or does MS have to eat it? i'm not sure what Sony's policy is.

If they were so worried about that, they wouldn't have an optical drive either.

Wouldn't be surprised if the next revision has a replaceable HDD.

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post #6686 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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If they were so worried about that, they wouldn't have an optical drive either.

It's a money grab, nothing more. Wouldn't be surprised if the next revision has a replaceable HDD.

Okay, I'm stumped. Why wouldn't they have an optical drive? You don't replace those yourself, do you?

I guess your saying somebody could stick a cheese sammich or something in there, but that's a little different than opening up the box and replacing a piece of hte hardware.

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post #6687 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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Okay, I'm stumped. Why wouldn't they have an optical drive? You don't replace those yourself, do you?

No, but you can shove anything in that slot too.

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post #6688 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
 
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This is just the calm before the storm. This industry is going to be unrecognizable within a few years, and anyone who thinks they can fully control even a small segment of it is going to find out that isn't going to happen...the hard way. The only ones that will stay relevant going forward are the ones that give people what they want. With so many new players splitting the market, it's going to require them to work together. Anyone who won't play ball will be irrelevant.

Adapt and survive. Don’t and die. Unless you have monopoly like power, good luck trying to dictate to markets how it’s gonna be. Even more luck to you in a consumer entertainment market! In the end you always need to find and fulfill consumer demand. And if they’re not demanding it….

It’s why so often the innovators are the new ones in the game often, since it’s no skin off their back if they fail. They don’t have a large user base they’ll wager against their vision. Apple had nothing to do with music or phones, and didn’t have a huge market of customers to tick off with their changes. And even then, they offered a heck of a lot more value to those markets at the time with their products (cheap legal music, maps, full internet, useful apps, connection to social media, good camera, list goes on), luring customers of traditional music and cellphone markets towards them. Especially because they were offering more value with their innovations.
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post #6689 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

I agree that I would like to be able to a standard hdd that I can replace. But I can also see why it isn't allowed. If someone puts a beat up old POS HDD inside their xbox with cat hair hanging out of the fan and then it overheats and dies or something, does that void the warranty or does MS have to eat it? i'm not sure what Sony's policy is.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as they are allowing external drives to operate exactly like the internal, I don't need to be able to replace the internal drive and therefore don't care if it's standard or proprietary.

It's a huge improvement with the Xbone letting you use whatever you want via USB. The options for the 360 sucked however. Having paid $70 for a 1TB for my PS3 was a huge help as I filled up the older HDD rather quickly. The 20GB 360 HDD was a pain to manage as I liked to keep demo's.
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post #6690 of 16881 Old 08-15-2013, 11:46 AM
 
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On one hand Tyrant says there has been no trolling in this thread and in the next sentence he calls everyone who disagreed with him a "whiner."

Thanks for speaking for me. But if you calmed down and read what I wrote you'll see the whiners I'm referring to are the ones attacking the discussions (and posters) themselves because they don't like the topic, and those flagging people in that discussion because they simply don’t want to hear anything negative.

I have and do disagree with many here, but I have never attacked them for having an opinion one way or the other. But I will attack those that puff up their chests and can’t handle the back and forth of an adult conversation and only want unicorns and rainbows sprinkled from Mattricks you know where.

Many of which, mind you, don’t seem to be adding anything to the discussions or topic, but are only attacking member and complaining.

They could, you know, post some new info and steer the discussion if they wanted, rather than play the victim and throw insults, accusations, and tantrums.
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