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post #6751 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Which is why I don't get why anyone complains about changing internal storage when you can expand what is there.

Well to be fair it would be nice to just have access to the internal drive to replace. If Sony can offer it there's no reason MS can't. I don't mind too much as I highly doubt I'll have a drive fail but still it's a valid concern even if a lot here don't think so. I'll definitely be adding an external 1 or 2TB drive, no question.
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post #6752 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Well to be fair it would be nice to just have access to the internal drive to replace. If Sony can offer it there's no reason MS can't. I don't mind too much as I highly doubt I'll have a drive fail but still it's a valid concern even if a lot here don't think so. I'll definitely be adding an external 1 or 2TB drive, no question.

I agree completely. Some people just can't seem to see two sides to any argument.

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post #6753 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Well to be fair it would be nice to just have access to the internal drive to replace. If Sony can offer it there's no reason MS can't. I don't mind too much as I highly doubt I'll have a drive fail but still it's a valid concern even if a lot here don't think so. I'll definitely be adding an external 1 or 2TB drive, no question.

I think it is just MS covering themselves. The problems regular consumers have they just want to avoid and make it simple.

The 5.0 is here
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post #6754 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:16 AM
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http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/16/xbox-one-games-are-not-region-locked-microsoft-clarifies-import-stance/


Xbox One Country Locale FAQs available after the link.

The 5.0 is here
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post #6755 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

I agree completely. Some people just can't seem to see two sides to any argument.

It's not that, it's just that one side of this argument is really weak. They could have made it a clip on like the phat or a slide in caddy like the slim. Installing a new HDD in a slim was about as difficult as inserting a SNES cartridge.

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post #6756 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I thought I read somewhere that you can expand on the storage through an external HDD. I know it would still be nicer to change it to a 1TB or more spinning at 7200rpm but oh well.

With the USB 3.0 port the speeds should have no problem being similar to what the internal drive wouldl be. I have several USB 3.0 powered drives ready to use with my XBOne. But I think they are only 5400 rpm drives. I might try and setup a RAID0 with a couple of SSDs to use with the XBOne USB 3.0 port to see how that is.

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post #6757 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Here you go ThumperII. People having issues with ps3 HDD upgrades. I'm sure it's not common, but it happens.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/66503939

I remember changing out the drive in my fat PS3. The process was very easy but there was a very tiny screw that needed to be removed. If you didn't have the proper screwdriver it was very easy to strip the head.

I am surprised that MS didn't go with a removable drive again like they had with the 360. I woudl think they brought in a decent amount of money with the hard drive upgrades people purchased.

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post #6758 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:39 AM
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Indeed, they made changing HDDs in the slim very easy. Why not extend that to the One? Hell I'd take stupid proprietary drives with the option of adding an external drive over no access period. I wonder what the fail rate was for the Xbox HDD? I know it was just an 8GB drive but I'm curious how often it failed.
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post #6759 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

It's not that, it's just that one side of this argument is really weak. They could have made it a clip on like the phat or a slide in caddy like the slim. Installing a new HDD in a slim was about as difficult as inserting a SNES cartridge.
I agree that the drive should be replaceable, especially since it is a likely point of failure. There is a lot of apathy about the decision and that is fine, too. I can see how someone who hasn't experienced many hard disk failures would not be overly concerned about it. What I don't believe is that Microsoft made this decision to generate extra revenue. If they wanted to generate extra revenue they would have firmware locked the drives just like the original 360 and allowed them to be replaced only with "Official Microsoft 500% more expensive" hard drives. Instead they just chose to disallow replacement which, I think, points to a concern about end users mucking up the system and costing Microsoft money. They decided the money they'd save on repairs and support was greater than the profit they'd gain by selling proprietary drives. The original 360 drives couldn't be replaced with 3rd party drives, either but maybe in the future they will be (like the later 360s). Down the road this is probably something they'll backtrack on with a new SKU (I hope).
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post #6760 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I remember changing out the drive in my fat PS3. The process was very easy but there was a very tiny screw that needed to be removed. If you didn't have the proper screwdriver it was very easy to strip the head.

I am surprised that MS didn't go with a removable drive again like they had with the 360. I woudl think they brought in a decent amount of money with the hard drive upgrades people purchased.

Keep in mind that one of the primary ways they "upgraded" the 360 over time was by offering SKUs with bigger HDDs. There wasn't much to an elite but a different color and a bigger HDD. But you could always just buy the HDD, and the system would function without it anyway. Now for someone who's HDD is full and isn't crazy about dangling an external drive off their X1....that X1 elite is going to be really tempting.

I'm not going to give them a cookie for letting you use external storage...that's just basic functionality in 2013. It's disgusting that they still arbitrarily limit the amount of space you can use on the 360. It's like they saw the writing on the wall that they couldn't get away with that any more on the X1, so they had to figure out some other way to use the HDD as an upgrade path.

Given their history of ripping people off when it comes to accessories, it's hard for me to see the non-serviceable HDD as anything but that. I had long assumed it didn't get much discussion because even their most ardent supporters recognized the scam for what it is, and just begrudgingly accepted it. I can hardly believe anyone is defending it.

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post #6761 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Given their history of ripping people off when it comes to accessories, it's hard for me to see the non-serviceable HDD as anything but that. I had long assumed it didn't get much discussion because even their most ardent supporters recognized the scam for what it is, and just begrudgingly accepted it. I can hardly believe anyone is defending it.
All console makers rip people off on accessories, that is the whole business model. And, businesses in general rip people off on accessories. How about that $1.50 fountain drink that costs 5 cents? Why do you think Best Buy et al. sell TVs at loss leader pricing and then hard sell the $100 Monster cables? Accessories are where most of the profit is generated right, wrong or otherwise. I still think the drive should be replaceable, I just don't agree that they're out in left field on this issue compared to Sony or any other company.
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post #6762 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 09:04 AM
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Well, Microsoft is apparently getting out of the business of selling HDDs this Xbox One generation. You supply any external HDD(s) you want. I think that's better than the 360 situation. Would be nice to swap the internal drive though.
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post #6763 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 09:07 AM
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Keep in mind that one of the primary ways they "upgraded" the 360 over time was by offering SKUs with bigger HDDs. There wasn't much to an elite but a different color and a bigger HDD. But you could always just buy the HDD, and the system would function without it anyway. Now for someone who's HDD is full and isn't crazy about dangling an external drive off their X1....that X1 elite is going to be really tempting.

I'm not going to give them a cookie for letting you use external storage...that's just basic functionality in 2013. It's disgusting that they still arbitrarily limit the amount of space you can use on the 360. It's like they saw the writing on the wall that they couldn't get away with that any more on the X1, so they had to figure out some other way to use the HDD as an upgrade path.

Given their history of ripping people off when it comes to accessories, it's hard for me to see the non-serviceable HDD as anything but that. I had long assumed it didn't get much discussion because even their most ardent supporters recognized the scam for what it is, and just begrudgingly accepted it. I can hardly believe anyone is defending it.

I wasn't defending it. But whatever they decide is what the policy is. It doesn't really matter too much to me. Sure it would be nice to replace the drive. But I have no problems with not being able to. The vast majority of people have no clue how to change a drive anyway and would have a good chance of mucking it up. But in the end it is a decision for MS to make. And I'll be using the XBOne no matter what the policy is with the hard drive.
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post #6764 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

All console makers rip people off on accessories, that is the whole business model. And, businesses in general rip people off on accessories. How about that $1.50 fountain drink that costs 5 cents? Why do you think Best Buy et al. sell TVs at loss leader pricing and then hard sell the $100 Monster cables? Accessories are where most of the profit is generated right, wrong or otherwise. I still think the drive should be replaceable, I just don't agree that they're out in left field on this issue compared to Sony or any other company.

Just because others do it too, doesn't excuse it. Best buy can try to sell you a ripoff cable, but you don't *have* to buy it...you don't have a choice with MS. Every chance MS had to make something proprietary and incompatible with industry standard or even 360 gear, they took it. I'm not saying people should boycott the console because of it, but it's offensive, and it should be recognized for what it is.

Since you brought up Sony...it's night and day. HDDs are user replaceable with any standard HDD. Almost all PS3 compatible USB headsets and controllers will work fine, without any adapters. Works with standard BT headsets too. Controllers charge with standard USB connectors, controller headset port looks to be a standard 2.5 as well.
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post #6765 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Given their history of ripping people off when it comes to accessories, it's hard for me to see the non-serviceable HDD as anything but that.

I don't think that people are defending it. More like it is what it is. When I think of "ripping people off" is you're charging for it. In this case, Microsoft is going completely hands-off and it's up to you to find some way to go buy your own external HDD.

It's as "non-serviceable" as game controllers with built-in batteries. Having gone through the early death of lithium-ion batteries on laptops and the iPhone, I'm not a fan of internal batteries and want easily replaceable batteries. My older eReader no longer holds a charge like it used to either so now its time to recharge is closer to a traditional tablet than it is to an eReader.

But some people like internal batteries.
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post #6766 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

All console makers rip people off on accessories, that is the whole business model. And, businesses in general rip people off on accessories. How about that $1.50 fountain drink that costs 5 cents? Why do you think Best Buy et al. sell TVs at loss leader pricing and then hard sell the $100 Monster cables? Accessories are where most of the profit is generated right, wrong or otherwise. I still think the drive should be replaceable, I just don't agree that they're out in left field on this issue compared to Sony or any other company.

With a fountain drink you're paying for convenience. You're fully aware that instead of buying a case of the drink you want, taking one with you and bringing a cup of ice you are just buying the drink ready to make. The situation has actually improved over the years as most places allow unlimited refills as it keeps you in their establishment longer.

If you want to compare against the 360 a better alternative would be theater food. You have no choice (aside from sneaking stuff in) so you pay what they charge. Same with the 360. You either cheat and run the risk of getting caught or buy their overpriced HDDs.
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post #6767 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:08 AM
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I don't think that people are defending it. More like it is what it is. When I think of "ripping people off" is you're charging for it. In this case, Microsoft is going completely hands-off and it's up to you to find some way to go buy your own external HDD.

It's as "non-serviceable" as game controllers with built-in batteries. Having gone through the early death of lithium-ion batteries on laptops and the iPhone, I'm not a fan of internal batteries and want easily replaceable batteries. My older eReader no longer holds a charge like it used to either so now its time to recharge is closer to a traditional tablet than it is to an eReader.

Maybe defending it isn't the right word to use. More like rationalizing it. Like don't piss on me and tell me it's raining, you know what I mean?
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But some people like internal batteries.

Yeah, I'm not crazy about that either.

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post #6768 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:10 AM
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People will give up the old ways of doing thing when the new way is unequivocally better. When it's value is obvious and doesn't require mental gymnastics to understand how it works and why it's better.

If they're so dead set about convincing people that the future is DD, then they should just give away a digital copy with every physical purchase. Amazon does it with CDs, lots of studios do it with Blu-ray. That's a deal no one can argue with, and everyone understands.
OR......(Though it would never happen) allow someone to purchase their pre-order with a list of games that are being launched at the same time. Simply allow the buyer to check off which games they want to buy and pre-load those games onto the unit. The incentive would be to offer a discounted price for the game(s) since there was no need to host the game on a server to download and there was no disc cost either. This would allow every Day One owner to start DD right off the bat so they could see the advantage of going completely disc-less if MS's OS would also give the user an excellent digital only experience.
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post #6769 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Business will charge what the market will bare, after taking into account ways to maximize profits (well the smart ones - publishers seem hell bent on not figuring that last one out).

Accessories can be profitable, but they can also leave a bad taste in your customers mouths and push them away from other lucrative purchases (PSV memory sticks anyone?). I don't pretend to have the numbers, but it might make more sense to give consumers the value of standardized accessories and devices and the good will that affords; make a killing elsewhere. Retail for instance is built on loss leaders that get people into stores and make up by people gingerly picking up higher profitable items while there. With the move towards on console services, might make more sense to stop with the accessory BS and push digital and digital services. Especially since that sort of revenue is much more consistent, and doesn't have the downside of dealing with inventory.
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post #6770 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

With a fountain drink you're paying for convenience. You're fully aware that instead of buying a case of the drink you want, taking one with you and bringing a cup of ice you are just buying the drink ready to make. The situation has actually improved over the years as most places allow unlimited refills as it keeps you in their establishment longer.
Drinks are huge profit centers for restaurants so that is how they are analogous to console accessories. I'm sure we could find endless reasons why drinks are not analogous to accessories but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are similar profit generators.
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post #6771 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:19 AM
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OXM UK has a nice article up on Unity and what they plan on doing with the Xbox One. More details look to coming up at Gamescon.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/60577/kinect-is-a-particular-focus-for-unity-on-xbox-one-its-just-an-amazing-piece-of-hardware/
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post #6772 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:25 AM
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I have a quick question and sorry if this has been covered: does anyone know how the HDMI passthrough will work?

Let's say it's connected to the HR24/34/44 DVR -- I wonder if the Xbox One will need to be on in order to pass the signal through? In layman's terms: will my gf need to mess with my Xbox One whenever she wants to watch her stupid shows like The Kardashians or Ryan Lochte? biggrin.gif

I was hoping there'd be dual HDMI out on something like the HR44 but there doesn't appear to be.Thx in advance --

Matt

If the Xbox is turned off she does not have to "mess" with it. The signal will go through the Xbox One. If the Xbox One works as well as advertise she might prefer using the voice commands.
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post #6773 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Just because others do it too, doesn't excuse it. Best buy can try to sell you a ripoff cable, but you don't *have* to buy it...you don't have a choice with MS. Every chance MS had to make something proprietary and incompatible with industry standard or even 360 gear, they took it. I'm not saying people should boycott the console because of it, but it's offensive, and it should be recognized for what it is.

Since you brought up Sony...it's night and day. HDDs are user replaceable with any standard HDD. Almost all PS3 compatible USB headsets and controllers will work fine, without any adapters. Works with standard BT headsets too. Controllers charge with standard USB connectors, controller headset port looks to be a standard 2.5 as well.
The XB1 has an adapter in the works for 3rd party 360 headsets and the controller charges with a standard USB connector. So you're right on the hard drive point but I already agree that it should be replaceable -- preaching to the choir. The new controllers use a different wireless protocol and the haptic feedback mechanism is new since last generation. Why or even how would they support 360 controllers when they have a new, multiple impulse haptic feedback mechanism? Those expensive steering wheels that probably won't work are a good place to direct your angst.
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post #6774 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 10:32 AM
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Anyone know if the X1 OS is on an SSD at all?

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post #6775 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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If the Xbox is turned off she does not have to "mess" with it. The signal will go through the Xbox One. If the Xbox One works as well as advertise she might prefer using the voice commands.

Pardon my ignorance here, but so this means that when the Xbox One is on "stand-by" mode, the HDMI pass-thru will still work in a passive capacity?

That would be great. I'm still not sure how well this will work with my Tivo. I'm hoping this makes it easier for my wife and son; not more complicated.
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post #6776 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 11:45 AM
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Anyone know if the X1 OS is on an SSD at all?

I'm sure there's some flash in there for firmware, but the full OS is almost certainly on the HDD.

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post #6777 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 11:47 AM
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Pardon my ignorance here, but so this means that when the Xbox One is on "stand-by" mode, the HDMI pass-thru will still work in a passive capacity?

That would be great. I'm still not sure how well this will work with my Tivo. I'm hoping this makes it easier for my wife and son; not more complicated.

From what I read it should work in stand by mode.
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Xbox One will utilize a few different methods to deliver live TV to the Xbox universe. Chief among those—at least in the US—is HDMI pass-through, in which the cable box, satellite box, or similar device (e.g., the aforementioned cablecard-equipped TiVo ) connects directly to the Xbox One, which then passes the mediated signal to the television via an HDMI-out port.

Because of that direct pipe from your TV provider to the Xbox One, you can watch TV with varying degrees of Xbox overlay. It can look exactly like your plain old TV interface, being controlled with the original remote. Alternately, you can use Xbox’s electronic programming guide, which presents a lineup based on your favorite channels or tells you what your friends are watching and can be controlled via voice, gesture, and game controller.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/
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post #6778 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

The XB1 has an adapter in the works for 3rd party 360 headsets and the controller charges with a standard USB connector. So you're right on the hard drive point but I already agree that it should be replaceable -- preaching to the choir. The new controllers use a different wireless protocol and the haptic feedback mechanism is new since last generation. Why or even how would they support 360 controllers when they have a new, multiple impulse haptic feedback mechanism? Those expensive steering wheels that probably won't work are a good place to direct your angst.

Yeah, by USB controllers, I mean wheels, fighting sticks, etc.

Don't even get me started on headsets lol...the adapter is like a slap in the face. Does it at least support standard BT headsets? I haven't heard anything solid either way.

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post #6779 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, by USB controllers, I mean wheels, fighting sticks, etc.

Don't even get me started on headsets lol...the adapter is like a slap in the face. Does it at least support standard BT headsets? I haven't heard anything solid either way.
Of course it doesn't support BT. The 360 doesn't either.

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post #6780 of 16930 Old 08-16-2013, 12:57 PM
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wow people will complain about ANYTHING. Hard drives on a CONSOLE? Srs... Has anyone complained about it being black yet? How about there is an xbox logo on it? Holy hell this is 'Merica, if you dont like it then dont buy it! mad.gif

I cant wait for the One. I am getting so tired of the slow laggy dashboard it is like someone forcing me to watch jersey shore, painful
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