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post #7291 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 09:23 AM
 
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Well put, Moo. I'll add, though, that the SXRD failure cost many owners $5000+ and wasn't solved without litigation. In fact, it is still ongoing. I just received a class action notice from the state of Michigan in regards to mine. Microsoft eventually handled the RROD situation well, even though it left a egg on the Xbox name. Sony denied any problem existed but extended warranties after they were ordered to by a judge. Then finally, years later, they offered remuneration (in the form of buy another Sony TV at a discount) only in exchange for signing away the right to litigate. To the bitter end their reps would claim nothing was wrong even after being e-mailed photographic evidence. It's the camera that's bad! The LED TV I received (purchased?) in exchange for not suing has several hot spots on a dark screen, the brightness level is blotchy and not uniform. This is their top of the line XBR model from a few years ago. After swapping from bad SXRD to bad SXRD I've grown too apathetic to care; I guess they finally won... So now I have 2 deeply flawed Sony televisions (although one was "purchased" at a heavy discount). Sony is plenty capable of producing hardware failures and then dropping the ball on a product that cost thousands of dollars (that's up to 10 launch day consoles, kids) and anyone who thinks otherwise should put down the pom poms and go read the old SXRD threads from start to finish.


It's not like any company is going to look out for your best interests when it affects their bottom line. Millions upon millions of Xbox owners got the shaft with the 360 debacle, and MS only offered to do it "for free" when a ridiculously huge amount of persons were going to be part of a lawsuit. ("Tony, from Texas" with his thick Indian accent would still try to charge you, even after the "free" offer.)

I'm certainly not complaining about Xbox 360s failing at a 100% rate, as I made tens of thousands of dollars repairing them, since many people didn't want to pay the astronomical fee of $140 and wait 2-3 months to get "their" Xbox back. (MS' definition of "fixed" was to slap some crappy thermal paste on any old roach-infested, kid-abused Xbox 360 and ship it back to you...untested and not reballed, as they should have been.)

Granted, their "repair" facilities got better/faster at repairs after millions of units were supposedly "fixed." Still, either case is not going to instill confidence in customers over the long haul. That said, you can't expect people to "put down the pom poms" while jumping around in your Spanx with a megaphone.
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post #7292 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 09:24 AM
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so sick of the sony vs ms debate, bringing up another company's fault doesn't change things. It is like me slapping my wife around and saying, well the guy up the street beats his wife with a baseball bat. I have a 360 and buying a XB1 at launch and a ps4 and wiiU down the line after price cuts, but am unbiased enough to say that what MS did was shady, they knowingly launched a faulty console and paid billions to prevent class action lawsuits, pointing out sony's sucky TV's or how unreliable Land Rover's are, doesn't change that.. funny that people point out a guy "trolling", only to "troll" right back, so just to clarify talking bad about MS in the MS section is trolling, talking bad about sony in MS section, OK.... well at least i have it figured out..
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post #7293 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

It's not like any company is going to look out for your best interests when it affects their bottom line. Millions upon millions of Xbox owners got the shaft with the 360 debacle, and MS only offered to do it "for free" when a ridiculously huge amount of persons were going to be part of a lawsuit. ("Tony, from Texas" with his thick Indian accent would still try to charge you, even after the "free" offer.)

I'm certainly not complaining about Xbox 360s failing at a 100% rate, as I made tens of thousands of dollars repairing them, since many people didn't want to pay the astronomical fee of $140 and wait 2-3 months to get "their" Xbox back. (MS' definition of "fixed" was to slap some crappy thermal paste on any old roach-infested, kid-abused Xbox 360 and ship it back to you...untested and not reballed, as they should have been.)

Granted, their "repair" facilities got better/faster at repairs after millions of units were supposedly "fixed." Still, either case is not going to instill confidence in customers over the long haul. That said, you can't expect people to "put down the pom poms" while jumping around in your Spanx with a megaphone.
Anyone who has an open mind about Kinect 2 and XB1 seems to be an object of ridicule by you and a few others. I have an open mind about these products but I'll judge it one way or the other when I finally get to see it. I wish you could be big enough to do the same.
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post #7294 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 09:37 AM
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so sick of the sony vs ms debate, bringing up another company's fault doesn't change things.
It dispels the notion that Sony Corp is infallible which has certainly been implied in this thread on several occasions. When someone brings up Microsoft's RROD debacle as a reason to think about avoiding this generation's Xbox, it is implicit in their argument that Sony will not have a hardware debacle. Otherwise, that person must simply be arguing that no one should buy a console at all because they might all experience hardware failures. Or that Microsoft is evil and we should avoid them. This is simple logic but then I've made the mistake of believing this was a rational debate in the past...
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post #7295 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 09:55 AM
 
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Anyone who has an open mind about Kinect 2 and XB1 seems to be an object of ridicule by you and a few others. I have an open mind about these products but I'll judge it one way or the other when I finally get to see it. I wish you could be big enough to do the same.

Nobody is "ridiculing" you or anyone else here. Questioning seemingly undying fanboyism? Perhaps.

If you want to be "the bigger man," by not holding MS accountable for its failings in regard to how they've handled next-gen so far, have at it. As for me, there isn't likely a single person on this thread that has more to lose by MS' poor choices, reversed or not. I carefully lined up all my eggs in a row far in advance; buying up years and years of Live cards at $20, purchasing 100,000 MS points (now $1200) at steep discounts, etc, all in anticipation of buying MS' next box. Then, they made their decision to force Kinect 2 down everyone's throats and placed the very, very few above the vast majority.

Some claim that "I hate Xbox/MS"...and yet, we have six Xbox 360 consoles in our home consisting of just three people. Kinect 2 ruined everything in every way imaginable, either directly or indirectly. There's no need to be open minded about something that I have no interest in, nor ever will, yet has changed the face of gaming in the worst way possible via how it's been handled.
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post #7296 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:29 AM
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. When someone brings up Microsoft's RROD debacle as a reason to think about avoiding this generation's Xbox, it is implicit in their argument that Sony will not have a hardware debacle. ..

WHAT? no it is not, if you bought a car produced by company X and it had major issues, so much so that you and your family had to pay to replace the car multiple times, would you run back out and buy another with no hesitation? of course not, no one would. I am buying an XB1 and i am nervous about it's reliability and that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SONY. If someone mentions how they bought a car and how much they had to pump into repairs it is not implicit that another company is bulletproof, that is just poor logic or maybe your ESP isn't working well.... the ironic thing is by blinding defending MS, you are the one claiming "bulletproof" multiple people (like myself) have pointed out the issues with RRoD and nothing was "hidden" trying to prop up sony..

why would people like me with 75% of their posts (spyder, etc..) in the xbox area, but anti MS, sony is the best EVER trolls??
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post #7297 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:32 AM
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Some claim that "I hate Xbox/MS"...and yet, we have six Xbox 360 consoles in our home consisting of just three people. Kinect 2 ruined everything in every way imaginable, either directly or indirectly. There's no need to be open minded about something that I have no interest in.

everyone here should buy a segway and if you don't you are narrow minded, i mean yeah most people don't have a need for one and like walking/driving fine, but segway is really the next gen of transportation and most people here have never even driven one and have no room to say they won't love it..
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post #7298 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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everyone here should buy a segway and if you don't you are narrow minded, i mean yeah most people don't have a need for one and like walking/driving fine, but segway is really the next gen of transportation and most people here have never even driven one and have no room to say they won't love it..
I don't think that's really relevant. We aren't in the segway forums complaining about a product we won't buy.

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post #7299 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:42 AM
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I don't think that's really relevant. We aren't in the segway forums complaining about a product we won't buy.

so i am not allowed to talk about the product i have preordered? and give an opinion different than yours?
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post #7300 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't care if you do. The segway comment just didn't make a lot of sense.

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post #7301 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:47 AM
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I don't care if you do. The segway comment just didn't make a lot of sense.

it's telling people that if they don't buy something without using it first then they are narrow minded.. same basic concept..
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post #7302 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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I happened to really like the 360, that's why I bought a 2nd. Plus I still had like 10 months on my live subscription at the time. If the failure rate wasn't %70+, and/or I happened to get lucky and not get the RROD on 2 different 360's ( including an elite) that I kept in a very well ventilated area and never touched besides when switching discs, I might have considered the XJuan more seriously.

Then the Reveal happened, and oh my lord was it a PR train wreck. You'd think after the whole RROD (which is now a household name) debacle, that Msoft might come out of the gate swinging for the feces (I meant fences) to please as many of their fans as possible.

Nope! It's gonna be weaker, and cost $100 more than the PS4 because we're going to include the cute little Kinect 2 with every X1. It's also going to do all of the things your Smart TV's already do, and maybe even better?

I won't even get into the ridiculous things that they were forced by public outrage to remove. We're going to see how well the XBone does now that it doesn't have a year head start on Sony. So far it's not looking good. PS4 outselling XBone 2 to 1 just in the U.S.
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post #7303 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 11:06 AM
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This commercial reminds me of this thread..
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post #7304 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 11:39 AM
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Nobody is "ridiculing" you or anyone else here. Questioning seemingly undying fanboyism? Perhaps.

If you want to be "the bigger man," by not holding MS accountable for its failings in regard to how they've handled next-gen so far, have at it. As for me, there isn't likely a single person on this thread that has more to lose by MS' poor choices, reversed or not. I carefully lined up all my eggs in a row far in advance; buying up years and years of Live cards at $20, purchasing 100,000 MS points (now $1200) at steep discounts, etc, all in anticipation of buying MS' next box. Then, they made their decision to force Kinect 2 down everyone's throats and placed the very, very few above the vast majority.

Some claim that "I hate Xbox/MS"...and yet, we have six Xbox 360 consoles in our home consisting of just three people. Kinect 2 ruined everything in every way imaginable, either directly or indirectly. There's no need to be open minded about something that I have no interest in, nor ever will, yet has changed the face of gaming in the worst way possible via how it's been handled.
It seems you've confused my ambivalence with zealotry. I am hardly pro-Xbox in this generation. At this time I am still undecided between XB1 or returning to PC. There are still so many unanswered questions, WMC being a perfect example. We use extenders to view all of our media and Microsoft has been rather coy about their Media Center strategy going forward. If there is no WMC support, I have to seriously question why I'd bother. I don't own a Kinect and I don't have any specific interest in it, either. I can see that it has potential, but my limited experience with Kinect 1 left me mostly unimpressed. I can see why Microsoft has chosen to bundle it in every console and I have argued why they've done it. It seems that you've mistaken my acceptance of their strategy with blind allegiance which couldn't be further from the truth. It is clear now that the Kinect is not required so if it bothers you, either vote with your wallet or disconnect it and sell it on fleabay. Kinects are going to break and there will undoubtedly be a secondary market for units which are damaged due to negligence not covered by warranty.
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post #7305 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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It seems you've confused my ambivalence with zealotry. I am hardly pro-Xbox in this generation. At this time I am still undecided between XB1 or returning to PC. There are still so many unanswered questions, WMC being a perfect example. We use extenders to view all of our media and Microsoft has been rather coy about their Media Center strategy going forward. If there is no WMC support, I have to seriously question why I'd bother. I don't own a Kinect and I don't have any specific interest in it, either. I can see that it has potential, but my limited experience with Kinect 1 left me mostly unimpressed. I can see why Microsoft has chosen to bundle it in every console and I have argued why they've done it. It seems that you've mistaken my acceptance of their strategy with blind allegiance which couldn't be further from the truth. It is clear now that the Kinect is not required so if it bothers you, either vote with your wallet or disconnect it and sell it on fleabay. Kinects are going to break and there will undoubtedly be a secondary market for units which are damaged due to negligence not covered by warranty.

Every bit of your idea to sell the Kinect makes sense...save for the fact that MS has done so many reversals that one cannot be sure that once they've got their cash-grab on preorders that they won't go right back to saying that the Kinect is required once again, thus leaving everyone that sold theirs off with nothing but a shiny Xbox brick that does nothing except serve as a passthrough for their cable box. Accepting their strategy is ultimately condoning that strategy. If MS had come out with the XB1 right out of the gate without the Kinect, I would have had 3 of them preordered and paid for already. What many fanboys (that word may not apply to you) seem to miss is that lots of people want(ed) a next-gen Xbox, yet have been/ are being told that in order to get that console, they have to pay $100 extra for the equivalent of what is, to them, a piece of garbage.

Again, I say that if the Kinect is such a wonderful, fantastic, and must-have device, it should be able to market itself. Developers should be clamoring to utilize its so-called "next-gen capabilities." If MS sold the One for $400 and said Kinect is actually that great, they could charge $200 for it ala carte and make more money...not to mention get some of the masses to convert back into the fold. I don't think that anyone here hates MS or loves Sony but what they do hate is the way things have been handled by the former in regard to next-gen.
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post #7306 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 01:09 PM
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Have any big 3rd part developers announced games that rely on it or utilize it?
Is their a list somewhere? Has someone figured out what to do with it yet?
I find the fact Microsoft doesn't seem to know what to with visa-via its own studios in a big way to not be a good sign.
(and if they have sorry, I was away for 3 weeks)
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post #7307 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 01:18 PM
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I believe that Forza 5 does head-tracking. Dead Rising 3 has a gimmick where if you make noise in your room the zombies will hear you.
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post #7308 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 01:29 PM
 
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Do you really think any devs of multi-platform games are going to put extra effort into their games to incorporate the Kinect ? Hell no !

So that leaves devs of exclusives, which will be held at gunpoint by Microsoft to make use of the gimmick. After many half assed attempts to make the Kinect an integral part of their games, consumers will grow tired of these blatant afterthoughts. Before you know it, the connect becomes as important as Six Axis, and developers will get back to more important things, like making quality titles.
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post #7309 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 02:00 PM
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WHAT? no it is not, if you bought a car produced by company X and it had major issues, so much so that you and your family had to pay to replace the car multiple times, would you run back out and buy another with no hesitation? of course not, no one would. I am buying an XB1 and i am nervous about it's reliability and that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SONY. If someone mentions how they bought a car and how much they had to pump into repairs it is not implicit that another company is bulletproof, that is just poor logic or maybe your ESP isn't working well.... the ironic thing is by blinding defending MS, you are the one claiming "bulletproof" multiple people (like myself) have pointed out the issues with RRoD and nothing was "hidden" trying to prop up sony..

why would people like me with 75% of their posts (spyder, etc..) in the xbox area, but anti MS, sony is the best EVER trolls??
Go back and read post #7291. In the context of what was said there, and quoted previously, my comments make perfect sense and are correct. You're arguing with yourself about something entirely different and I can't help you with that.
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post #7310 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 02:02 PM
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Do you really think any devs of multi-platform games are going to put extra effort into their games to incorporate the Kinect ? Hell no !

It's got its potential. Body/face scanning for character creation. The whole player face recognition automatic log-in thing, with tracking of who's holding what controller. Little things like tracking my body in a shooter so that my character ducks when I duck and leans to peak around corners when I lean, etc. Then there's voice commands, which are proven useful in Skyrim and ME3. Last but not least, voice and gesture control of the system and multimedia apps.

I've said it before--if MS really wants to push developer adoption of it, they'll give substantial financial incentives for approved uses and as much technical help as the developer needs to pull it off. Give each developer half a million and get Kinect features in 100 games for $50M.

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post #7311 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 02:10 PM
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I think a few posters misunderstood the "beating a dead horse" gifs from the last page. Not only did it not mean to AMPLIFY the redundant and worn out Kinect discussion, it ESPECIALLY didn't mean to revive the RROD/YLOD back from the dead! It's a beautiful day...go outside.
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post #7312 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 02:15 PM
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Again, I say that if the Kinect is such a wonderful, fantastic, and must-have device, it should be able to market itself. Developers should be clamoring to utilize its so-called "next-gen capabilities." If MS sold the One for $400 and said Kinect is actually that great, they could charge $200 for it ala carte and make more money...not to mention get some of the masses to convert back into the fold. I don't think that anyone here hates MS or loves Sony but what they do hate is the way things have been handled by the former in regard to next-gen.
I don't think it is likely that they'd entrap people by reversing course and making Kinect mandatory after release. That would be a PR nightmare. Chances are you'd end up selling it and then a title would come out that had a compelling reason to actually use it. There are a ton of theoretical uses for the device which could provide a much greater level of immersion than is currently possible. I just think it is a chicken and egg problem. They need developers to use it and those same developers at large likely won't unless it is ubiquitous (or unless it proves to be amazing). I have no idea if this strategy will work, but it is probably the only chance Kinect has. You're right to say that the value of the Kinect should be able to speak for itself. Maybe it will; obviously it hasn't yet. And it is admittedly starting to get strange that they haven't highlighted it more up to this point in the first wave of release titles. Maybe it is just more of a Nintendo-style play to go after the masses with the same novelty as the Wii but if that is the casetheir price point will keep that from being a reality until late in the generation. Their strategy is a little schizophrenic.
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post #7313 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 03:52 PM
 
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I think a few posters misunderstood the "beating a dead horse" gifs from the last page. Not only did it not mean to AMPLIFY the redundant and worn out Kinect discussion, it ESPECIALLY didn't mean to revive the RROD/YLOD back from the dead! It's a beautiful day...go outside.

Why is it that every time someone brings up a valid concern, some think that the "answer" is to mock or beat them into silence? confused.gif

Some want discussion about such matters, others want something to convince them to rethink the matter, and still others are simply expressing disgust and/or their discontent, which they should have every right to do, anywhere, at any time. Replying with insipid gifs that demand obedience or posting endless "reveal" and "unboxing" propaganda that we've all seen a million times before doesn't further the discussion, nor does it sway anyone. Not everyone wants to stick their head in the sand and pretend the issue is going away...but since all the "cool kids" are doing it, let's do "go outside" and join the club:


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post #7314 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Why is it that every time someone brings up a valid concern, some think that the "answer" is to mock or beat them into silence? confused.gif

Some want discussion about such matters, others want something to convince them to rethink the matter, and still others are simply expressing disgust and/or their discontent, which they should have every right to do, anywhere, at any time. Replying with insipid gifs that demand obedience or posting endless "reveal" and "unboxing" propaganda that we've all seen a million times before doesn't further the discussion, nor does it sway anyone. Not everyone wants to stick their head in the sand and pretend the issue is going away...but since all the "cool kids" are doing it, let's do "go outside" and join the club:



There is a simple solution for those that don't want to talk about any aspect that isn't 100% MS positive. Just ignore those post and only respond to posts that praise everything MS then.

Seems silly Telling others to shut up or not talk about valid topics such as people who are curious as to how things will go for the countries beyond the 5 that Kinect will actually work fully in at launch.

Thankfully the masses aren't that way or MS would have stuck with all the DRM anti-consumer crap that was announced at E3.
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post #7315 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Why is it that every time someone brings up a valid concern, some think that the "answer" is to mock or beat them into silence? confused.gif
Some want discussion about such matters, others want something to convince them to rethink the matter, and still others are simply expressing disgust and/or their discontent, which they should have every right to do, anywhere, at any time. Replying with insipid gifs that demand obedience or posting endless "reveal" and "unboxing" propaganda that we've all seen a million times before doesn't further the discussion, nor does it sway anyone. Not everyone wants to stick their head in the sand and pretend the issue is going away...but since all the "cool kids" are doing it, let's do "go outside" and join the club:



Because...THE RAIN IN SPAIN STAYS MAINLY IN THE PLAINS! GET it? By GEORGE...We've GOT IT!
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post #7316 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ufcraig21 View Post

Because its still their game...the consumer is merely renting the license until some indeterminate time in the future when they can choose to shut the whole thing off.

Oh, right. Just like books, CDs, DVDs, BDs, records, TVs, phones, consoles, radios, refrigerators and everything else with software in it. They are all licenses and the pubs all get a cut from used sales.
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post #7317 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 08:33 PM
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Positive and negative comments are great...it would be nice if they were about NEWS though.
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post #7318 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 11:05 PM
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It's now September 1st and we still don't have a release date. Anybody else find this a bit strange ? I need to know which days to take off work, lol.
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post #7319 of 16214 Old 08-31-2013, 11:11 PM
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It is strange and makes me think that they're scrambling to see whether they can get it out the door before PS4. Either that or they just don't want people to know that they'll wait another 10+ days after PS4 release for it until as late as possible.

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post #7320 of 16214 Old 09-01-2013, 04:42 AM
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Here is a nice writeup of the new dashboard and the Kinect interaction demo from Gamescom.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-what-the-xbox-one-dash-means-for-gamers
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