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post #7561 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 08:26 PM
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Do they really think that anyone is going to pay $500 for a machine to watch football on, which doesn't even include a built-in television tuner? If so, they're delusional. They should lead with games and then say, "oh yeah--it can do this too". Did universal public disappointment at the reveal teach them nothing?

people go out and buy $3000 big screen TVs in time for the Super Bowl. we're talking NFL here. normal spending doesn't apply.
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post #7562 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 08:55 PM
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I never said BluRay made the PS3 a better gaming machine. My whole point was the PS3 was at worst equal to the 360 as far as gaming goes. Since gaming is the most important function of a Game console, Sony got that right,+1 for Sony. The PS3 was also one of the Best BluRay players on the market for a long time. In fact it is still really good. You could say that if it weren't for the PS3, BluRay would be nowhere near as popular as it is now.

People weren't outraged about the "It only does everything" add campaign because Sony didn't turn their back on hardcore gamers in the process. Microsoft on the other hand seems to be solely targeting casual gamers with their " it only does everything but play games as good as that other console" campaign.

Microsoft had a good 5 year run of producing 360's that were susceptible to the RROD. I bought an 07'build date and when that one died, I bought an elite with a late 09' build date. After the elite died that was it. My friend was also on his 2nd. Many customers of mine were on their 2nd or 3rd, some were on their 4th. To me that shows how much Microsoft really cares. After a couple batches of defective 360's, the problem should have been isolated and fixed. Not just keep pumping out 360's with a 60- 70 % failure rate.

I wouldn't say PS3 was equal to 360 'as far as gaming goes'. I like my PS3, to be sure, and it has some advantages over the (OG) 360-- bluray support, built in wi-fi, a branded 1st party headset, a quicker Netflix interface and a very good crop of exclusive games. But it also has some severe disadvantages as well-- preference for controllers aside the online experience is pitiful on ps3. Next to the 360 with it's standard headset, cross game chat, party function and integrated user interface the ps3 just seems archaic. In addition, in the early going a lot of big third party titles looked worse on ps3 due to developers placing priority on the 360 by developing there and porting to the Sony system afterward. Not exactly the ps3's fault but still a strike against it being an equal gaming machine.

But that's all old news. You know what else is old news? Supposed 'hardcore' gamers getting all butt-hurt when a company decides to grow it's customer base by including features and functions that might attract a broader, more 'casual' audience. Like this whole gaming thing is an exclusive club-- sort of like that fort you made as a child out of couch cushions and cardboard boxes. Only, instead of 'no girls allowed' we've got a 'no casuals allowed' affixed to the entrance. Quit with the weird insecurity already.

Want a good car analogy? Porsche makes better 911s because it sells tarted up VW touaregs. When the Porsche faithful caught wind that their beloved company would be manufacturing and selling an SUV they howled. This was the end of the brand, Porsche had obviously lost there way. Doom was predicted for the dear 911 and the faithful wept. Now, Porsche sells about twice as many Cayennes as it does 911s here in the states and yet the 911 is still here and better than ever. All the profit porsche makes on selling the rebranded SUV is pumped right into the development of better transmissions, more powerful and fuel efficient engines, complex torque vectoring systems and sophisticated suspension set ups. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Microsoft hasn't abandoned the core gamer-- they've given more people more reasons to become gamers! The continuation of the 1 month exclusivity agreement for call of duty content, the formation of 343 studios, the courtship of Respawn entertainment and their much hyped first game Titanfall-- these are not the actions of a company looking to shuttle it's hardcore install base!

As for the RROD... Microsoft made good, what else do you want from them? They made a mistake, they extended and honored the warranty for those affected. Quit beating a dead horse.

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post #7563 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 09:48 PM
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Hopefully MS comes out with a 911 Xbox One.
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post #7564 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 10:07 PM
 
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I wouldn't say PS3 was equal to 360 'as far as gaming goes'. I like my PS3, to be sure, and it has some advantages over the (OG) 360-- bluray support, built in wi-fi, a branded 1st party headset, a quicker Netflix interface and a very good crop of exclusive games. But it also has some severe disadvantages as well-- preference for controllers aside the online experience is pitiful on ps3. Next to the 360 with it's standard headset, cross game chat, party function and integrated user interface the ps3 just seems archaic. In addition, in the early going a lot of big third party titles looked worse on ps3 due to developers placing priority on the 360 by developing there and porting to the Sony system afterward. Not exactly the ps3's fault but still a strike against it being an equal gaming machine.

But that's all old news. You know what else is old news? Supposed 'hardcore' gamers getting all butt-hurt when a company decides to grow it's customer base by including features and functions that might attract a broader, more 'casual' audience. Like this whole gaming thing is an exclusive club-- sort of like that fort you made as a child out of couch cushions and cardboard boxes. Only, instead of 'no girls allowed' we've got a 'no casuals allowed' affixed to the entrance. Quit with the weird insecurity already.

Want a good car analogy? Porsche makes better 911s because it sells tarted up VW touaregs. When the Porsche faithful caught wind that their beloved company would be manufacturing and selling an SUV they howled. This was the end of the brand, Porsche had obviously lost there way. Doom was predicted for the dear 911 and the faithful wept. Now, Porsche sells about twice as many Cayennes as it does 911s here in the states and yet the 911 is still here and better than ever. All the profit porsche makes on selling the rebranded SUV is pumped right into the development of better transmissions, more powerful and fuel efficient engines, complex torque vectoring systems and sophisticated suspension set ups. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Microsoft hasn't abandoned the core gamer-- they've given more people more reasons to become gamers! The continuation of the 1 month exclusivity agreement for call of duty content, the formation of 343 studios, the courtship of Respawn entertainment and their much hyped first game Titanfall-- these are not the actions of a company looking to shuttle it's hardcore install base!

As for the RROD... Microsoft made good, what else do you want from them? They made a mistake, they extended and honored the warranty for those affected. Quit beating a dead horse.

In order for your car analogy to make sense Microsoft would need to sell a cheaper ( maybe minus Kinect) stronger version for the hardcore gamers. Good luck with that. My analogy made sense. Car buyers don't say hey look, Ford has Sync, lets go buy one. Apps are the last thing they're looking for in a car. Apps are the last thing I, and apparently many others, are looking for in a console.

The reason I bring up the RROD is because it was such a disaster. The turn around to get a 360 repaired and sent back was more than a month. Many people were buying second and third 360's because they didn't want to wait a month and a half. Something like that can happen again. Msoft has flip flopped on so many things already, I'd be amazed if the final console isn't riddled with bugs.
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post #7565 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 10:21 PM
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I'd be surprised if it had any major problems at launch. The things that they flip-flopped on were all matters of SW/FW, not hardware features. And it was just a couple of items, not "so many things"; always connected/DRM was one item, mandatory Kinect attached was the other. (I suppose that someone might consider the decision to put a headset in the box a flip-flop, but it's not something with any sort of effect on system performance or reliability).

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post #7566 of 17036 Old 09-05-2013, 11:42 PM
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We want a console that focuses on its primary function which is play games. Everything else is icing on the cake. The PS3 was also more powerful than the 360, it had BluRay ( which turned out to be HUGE, it had Bluetooth ( which was awesome), and free online multiplayer, on top of all that it was capable of playing better looking games than the 360. I believe that campaign was a couple years into the PS3's cycle. Either way I think they had every right to boast " It Only Does Everything" ( especially play games to this current gens full potential).

no party chat was enough to kill the PS3. If all you want is to play with a bunch of strangers or play single player, you could go PS3. But it's just so fun going from one large party to the next on the 360. Some nights, we just sat in party and talked for hours. It's like being back in college. to me, it was THE feature of the 360 and the reason to own a 360 (well, besides the better multiplatform games).
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post #7567 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 12:24 AM
 
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no party chat was enough to kill the PS3. If all you want is to play with a bunch of strangers or play single player, you could go PS3. But it's just so fun going from one large party to the next on the 360. Some nights, we just sat in party and talked for hours. It's like being back in college. to me, it was THE feature of the 360 and the reason to own a 360 (well, besides the better multiplatform games).

The 360 had and still has the superior online experience, no question. I used to love the party chats during games also. I still prefer the 360 controller over the PS3's. But as the old saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, not gonna happen. I got screwed out of over $1000 because TWO 360's crapped out on me. I won't give Msoft another dime.

In all honesty, I want the XJuan to do well. If nothing else, it'll keep Sony on their toes, and the competition will make for some exciting things in the future. Even though the Playstation is more powerful ( again ), I'm sure all of the third party titles will look nearly identical on both consoles. Who can put out the best exclusives will be an interesting battle though.
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post #7568 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 02:42 AM
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The 360 had and still has the superior online experience, no question. I used to love the party chats during games also. I still prefer the 360 controller over the PS3's. But as the old saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, not gonna happen. I got screwed out of over $1000 because TWO 360's crapped out on me. I won't give Msoft another dime.

In all honesty, I want the XJuan to do well. If nothing else, it'll keep Sony on their toes, and the competition will make for some exciting things in the future. Even though the Playstation is more powerful ( again ), I'm sure all of the third party titles will look nearly identical on both consoles. Who can put out the best exclusives will be an interesting battle though.

How do you get screwed out of $1k? Any issues I had with two of the twelve 360s I owned were fixed/replaced quickly. Every electronic device has a certain number of failures. And with the RROD for the 360 the warranty was extended to cover that issue without any extra cost to the consumer.

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post #7569 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 06:35 AM
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I wouldn't say PS3 was equal to 360 'as far as gaming goes'. I like my PS3, to be sure, and it has some advantages over the (OG) 360-- bluray support, built in wi-fi, a branded 1st party headset, a quicker Netflix interface and a very good crop of exclusive games. But it also has some severe disadvantages as well-- preference for controllers aside the online experience is pitiful on ps3. Next to the 360 with it's standard headset, cross game chat, party function and integrated user interface the ps3 just seems archaic. In addition, in the early going a lot of big third party titles looked worse on ps3 due to developers placing priority on the 360 by developing there and porting to the Sony system afterward. Not exactly the ps3's fault but still a strike against it being an equal gaming machine.

But that's all old news. You know what else is old news? Supposed 'hardcore' gamers getting all butt-hurt when a company decides to grow it's customer base by including features and functions that might attract a broader, more 'casual' audience. Like this whole gaming thing is an exclusive club-- sort of like that fort you made as a child out of couch cushions and cardboard boxes. Only, instead of 'no girls allowed' we've got a 'no casuals allowed' affixed to the entrance. Quit with the weird insecurity already.

Want a good car analogy? Porsche makes better 911s because it sells tarted up VW touaregs. When the Porsche faithful caught wind that their beloved company would be manufacturing and selling an SUV they howled. This was the end of the brand, Porsche had obviously lost there way. Doom was predicted for the dear 911 and the faithful wept. Now, Porsche sells about twice as many Cayennes as it does 911s here in the states and yet the 911 is still here and better than ever. All the profit porsche makes on selling the rebranded SUV is pumped right into the development of better transmissions, more powerful and fuel efficient engines, complex torque vectoring systems and sophisticated suspension set ups. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Microsoft hasn't abandoned the core gamer-- they've given more people more reasons to become gamers! The continuation of the 1 month exclusivity agreement for call of duty content, the formation of 343 studios, the courtship of Respawn entertainment and their much hyped first game Titanfall-- these are not the actions of a company looking to shuttle it's hardcore install base!

As for the RROD... Microsoft made good, what else do you want from them? They made a mistake, they extended and honored the warranty for those affected. Quit beating a dead horse.

Such an awesome post!

And you nailed it with the Porsche analogy. Porsche exists today mainly because of the "tarted up VW Toureg". Something like 80% of their current sales.. are now SUV sales. And that translates to the console world.. in that console gaming is no longer just about purely console gaming. Its about having an multifunctional device that can control your living room. Its the same revolution that happened with cellphones, when they turned into smartphones. Once you put a camera, keyboard, internet connection, web browser, games & apps on a cellphone.. it changed the game and now everyone wants smartphones.

Think of gaming consoles now as "smart" gaming consoles. And the more reasons companies like MS can give people to use an Xbox.. the more reasons people have to purchase an Xbox from MS. How hard is this to understand? Till this day, I use my PS3 mainly for watching BR movies and media streaming. If it was just about gaming on the PS3.. I would have either sold this one a long time ago or never bought one to begin with. Glad to see its not just me that agrees with you. 8 other people have also given this post a thumbs up!

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post #7570 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 06:38 AM
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How do you get screwed out of $1k? Any issues I had with two of the twelve 360s I owned were fixed/replaced quickly. Every electronic device has a certain number of failures. And with the RROD for the 360 the warranty was extended to cover that issue without any extra cost to the consumer.

Not only did the extend the warranty and replace the console. But last I checked the most a brand new bare bones Xbox360 console ever sold for was $299.

So how do you get screwed out of $1000, on the purchase of two Xbox 360s. When they had a maximum value of $600 combined. And thats maximum value, they could be brought on sale or used for much cheaper. They could also be repaired for much cheaper.

Why do people feel the need to exaggerate.. or in some circumstances straight out lie.. to get a point across?

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post #7571 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 07:28 AM
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on people defend MS by saying "well they extended the warranty what else did you want them to do". What MS did is "undefendable" (yes i made that word up), not just myself but numerous people in my family had RRoD after the warranty. Here is my issue by saying it was a "mistake" is a lie. What did i expect MS to do? Not be shady and deceitful and launch a product that worked. Now sure if they launched and then found out down the line about RRoD, i would be a little more inclined to call it a "mistake". Knowing that the console is defective and launching anyways is unacceptable and anyone defending that practice just comes off like a fanboy.....
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post #7572 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 07:47 AM
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I wouldn't say PS3 was equal to 360 'as far as gaming goes'. I like my PS3, to be sure, and it has some advantages over the (OG) 360-- bluray support, built in wi-fi, a branded 1st party headset, a quicker Netflix interface and a very good crop of exclusive games. But it also has some severe disadvantages as well-- preference for controllers aside the online experience is pitiful on ps3. Next to the 360 with it's standard headset, cross game chat, party function and integrated user interface the ps3 just seems archaic. In addition, in the early going a lot of big third party titles looked worse on ps3 due to developers placing priority on the 360 by developing there and porting to the Sony system afterward. Not exactly the ps3's fault but still a strike against it being an equal gaming machine.

But that's all old news. You know what else is old news? Supposed 'hardcore' gamers getting all butt-hurt when a company decides to grow it's customer base by including features and functions that might attract a broader, more 'casual' audience. Like this whole gaming thing is an exclusive club-- sort of like that fort you made as a child out of couch cushions and cardboard boxes. Only, instead of 'no girls allowed' we've got a 'no casuals allowed' affixed to the entrance. Quit with the weird insecurity already.

Want a good car analogy? Porsche makes better 911s because it sells tarted up VW touaregs. When the Porsche faithful caught wind that their beloved company would be manufacturing and selling an SUV they howled. This was the end of the brand, Porsche had obviously lost there way. Doom was predicted for the dear 911 and the faithful wept. Now, Porsche sells about twice as many Cayennes as it does 911s here in the states and yet the 911 is still here and better than ever. All the profit porsche makes on selling the rebranded SUV is pumped right into the development of better transmissions, more powerful and fuel efficient engines, complex torque vectoring systems and sophisticated suspension set ups. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Microsoft hasn't abandoned the core gamer-- they've given more people more reasons to become gamers! The continuation of the 1 month exclusivity agreement for call of duty content, the formation of 343 studios, the courtship of Respawn entertainment and their much hyped first game Titanfall-- these are not the actions of a company looking to shuttle it's hardcore install base!

As for the RROD... Microsoft made good, what else do you want from them? They made a mistake, they extended and honored the warranty for those affected. Quit beating a dead horse.

Great post. I agree with you 100%.

I have a PS3 but I dont have a 360, I can say without a doubt in my mind the 360 had more A+ titles as there were very few games on the PS3 that I considered "must haves"

Even some of the "must haves" had some wonky controls at times though, *chough* Uncharted *cough*.

LittleBigPlanet was awsome but the cart racing game was horrible in my opinion and the second one wasnt as good as the first...like it was a bad movie series...it just seemed to go down hill....

Honestly, I dont get why Infamous was as big as it was. I got very very bored after a short time playing cause it was so repetitive.

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post #7573 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 08:13 AM
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on people defend MS by saying "well they extended the warranty what else did you want them to do". What MS did is "undefendable" (yes i made that word up), not just myself but numerous people in my family had RRoD after the warranty. Here is my issue by saying it was a "mistake" is a lie. What did i expect MS to do? Not be shady and deceitful and launch a product that worked. Now sure if they launched and then found out down the line about RRoD, i would be a little more inclined to call it a "mistake". Knowing that the console is defective and launching anyways is unacceptable and anyone defending that practice just comes off like a fanboy.....

If you find the situation unacceptable.. then sell your 360 and be done with it. Why torture yourself? I've never understood people who constantly complain about something.. but do absolutely nothing about it. You speak as if MS held a gun to your head and forced you to buy one. Or even worse, forced you to keep a broken one.

I think the end result MS provided was more than acceptable. Which was a 3 year warranty and free shipping to/from the repair center. The only thing RROD has ever caused me.. was not being able to play my 360 for a couple of weeks.

I find it ridiculously hard to believe a company purposely shipped a product, knowing it would cost them billions of dollars in warranty repairs down the line.
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post #7574 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 08:29 AM
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Great post. I agree with you 100%.

I have a PS3 but I dont have a 360, I can say without a doubt in my mind the 360 had more A+ titles as there were very few games on the PS3 that I considered "must haves"

Even some of the "must haves" had some wonky controls at times though, *chough* Uncharted *cough*.

LittleBigPlanet was awsome but the cart racing game was horrible in my opinion and the second one wasnt as good as the first...like it was a bad movie series...it just seemed to go down hill....

Honestly, I dont get why Infamous was as big as it was. I got very very bored after a short time playing cause it was so repetitive.

Its not that the PS3 didn't have great exclusive titles, it just didn't have many I was interested in.. or many that would interest my peers. Many of its exclusives & big sellers.. just aren't things that are popular with American players. So a lot of those titles we much more popular in Europe & Asia.

That also speaks for the nature of the consoles itself. The 360 is an American console. And it feels that way. The controller is bigger & more substantial.. the system itself is also bigger & flashier. The exclusive titles & big sellers are mostly sports and shooters. And the dashboard/apps on the Home screen are cartoonish & flashy. Things that generally go well for people on this side of the water. The 360 feels like loud V8, rear wheel drive sports car.. much more in your face experience.
The PS3 seems the opposite. It feels very Euro-Asian. The controller is smaller and feels like a toy, more than a tool.. with the system now a little black box designed to hideaway in your entertainment cabinet. The home screen seems purposely minimal. The most popular exclusive PS titles seem a bit quirky/wonky.. some of them seem cold and disconnected. The same goes for the online experience doesnt feel like a community, it feels more isolated you are playing against bots because there is not party system and nobody uses mics. The PS3 feels like Civic or Corolla.. which is more focused bland, but low-risk and mentally sound purchase.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, because each of us desires a different experience with from our gaming console. But there is no doubt the Xbox experience is the one I prefer. That doesnt mean I dont play any games on my PS3, I own Killzone3 and GT5.. and also subscribe to PS+ to receive the free monthly titles. But that does mean I still game much more on my 360.. than I ever do on my PS3. As I said before.. my PS3 is mainly for BR watching, media streaming or when Im in the mood to play something different (like Hot Shots Golf).

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post #7575 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 08:34 AM
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If you find the situation unacceptable.. then sell your 360 and be done with it. Why torture yourself? I've never understood people who constantly complain about something.. but do absolutely nothing about it. You speak as if MS held a gun to your head and forced you to buy one. Or even worse, forced you to keep a broken one.

I think the end result MS provided was more than acceptable. Which was a 3 year warranty and free shipping to/from the repair center. The only thing RROD has ever caused me.. was not being able to play my 360 for a couple of weeks.

I find it ridiculously hard to believe a company purposely shipped a product, knowing it would cost them billions of dollars in warranty repairs down the line.

Yeah, I don't believe they knew about the specific problem ahead of time. But that's what happens when you rush it and cut corners.

I'd really like to see all the console vendors stand up for their product and offer at least a 3 year warranty from day one. Theyre out there saying they're building them to last 10 years always on....so back it up. If they're so sure it's going to be reliable, they should put their money where their mouth is. If it really is that solid, it shouldn't cost them anything.

Of course they're not doing that, so I can't blame people for still holding RROD against them. I had two (plus a HDD crash)...its really aggravating.

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post #7576 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Of course they're not doing that, so I can't blame people for still holding RROD against them. I had two (plus a HDD crash)...its really aggravating.
I'm on my 14th 360 since launch. Seriously. Only paid for 2 out of those, and Microsoft provided the rest... but in my case, it was a run of almost comedic bad luck. I'm talking refurb with a bad GPU, then a fire in a UPS truck, then they lost my returned console, then they sent me one that was bricked as soon as I turned it on by that Fall update that was faulty. I would still have 2 360s today if my stepbrother hadn't stolen well to support his pill habit. tongue.gif

Still, as much of a pain as all that was, 360 is where my friends game... and Microsoft at least kept rolling the dice until they got me something that works. Not excusing it, but I'm glad to see they took extra precautions this time to test their cooling in harsh conditions just in case.

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post #7577 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 09:01 AM
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I dunno man....14 isn't bad luck, it's a pattern.

It looks like the X1 has decent cooling....but cooling wasnt the entire issue. They're pushing their chips pretty far, and with so much new technology in the APU, kinect, controllers, etc....I'll be surprised if something doesn't go wrong. Maybe not as bad as RROD, but we'll see.
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post #7578 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 09:22 AM
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Xbox One Smartglass details:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/09/ent-xbox-one-smartglass

The biggest difference is a confirmation of this, I think. It was already assumed from the One's Wifi Direct support, but nice to see it confirmed:
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XW: How are you making SmartGlass faster on Xbox One than Xbox 360?
RP: With Xbox 360, SmartGlass had to talk to a datacenter that could be halfway around the world, and the datacenter then relayed commands to your Xbox. That connection from your SmartGlass device to a datacenter and then to your Xbox required extra time to execute. Now, SmartGlass talks directly to your Xbox One over your Wi-Fi or LAN network.

I'd like to see games actually really take advantage of this now, because it was woefully underused on the 360. At the very least, can we get Madden on the Xbox One to let me draw out hotroutes instead of pressing a ton of buttons to change things? biggrin.gif
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post #7579 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

on people defend MS by saying "well they extended the warranty what else did you want them to do". What MS did is "undefendable" (yes i made that word up), not just myself but numerous people in my family had RRoD after the warranty. Here is my issue by saying it was a "mistake" is a lie. What did i expect MS to do? Not be shady and deceitful and launch a product that worked. Now sure if they launched and then found out down the line about RRoD, i would be a little more inclined to call it a "mistake". Knowing that the console is defective and launching anyways is unacceptable and anyone defending that practice just comes off like a fanboy.....

They had no choice, it was extend the warranty or a full recall. They probably plugged some numbers to see which route would be less expensive and a less PR nightmare.
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post #7580 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:09 AM
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I thought this was a nice little piece of an article that got headlines for the Indie stuff. Your favorite television channels roam with you.
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Spencer told us more about how the Kinect's IR blaster will work to help streamline integration. "Kinect sends out the commands for your TV and your media stack," he explains. "Right now, we're asking users to select their provider and box. Our goal is to get to the point where it figures it out by asking you a few questions. That's something we're on for the next two years, but we're going to get close at launch for a lot of people."

The Xbox One profile will also enable users to create a favorite channel list. Should you log into your profile away from home (either on your box or someone else's), those favorites will still work. "My channel lineup is mine and tagged as favorites (and saved by channel name and not number)," Spencer says. "If I go to your house on a different cable system and log into my account, my favorites move with me on your box and they just work. My favorites are still mine and will give me the right program guide regardless of where the Xbox is."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/09/05/microsofts-phil-spencer-on-xbox-one-pre-orders-demystifying-the-cloud-and-wooing-indies.aspx
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post #7581 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, I don't believe they knew about the specific problem ahead of time. But that's what happens when you rush it and cut corners.

I'd really like to see all the console vendors stand up for their product and offer at least a 3 year warranty from day one. Theyre out there saying they're building them to last 10 years always on....so back it up. If they're so sure it's going to be reliable, they should put their money where their mouth is. If it really is that solid, it shouldn't cost them anything.

Of course they're not doing that, so I can't blame people for still holding RROD against them. I had two (plus a HDD crash)...its really aggravating.

I seriously doubt they knew about the problem.. as its something took months to occur for most people. And it only happened under certain circumstances to me. I had about 3 of them RROD.. and every time it was due to overheating in the summer time. At the time, the apartment I was living in did not have central AC and only a window A/C unit. It also didnt help that the 50" Plasma I had my 360 connected to, put out lots of heat! If that A/C unit was running full blast and the tv was on for a while.. the apt would get pretty warm. Needless to say I didnt run into RROD until about 8-9 months after I bought my first 360. And that was a launch unit received a day before the actual launch date in November 2005.

For those that remember, MS tried SEVERAL different solutions. In the forms of different motherboard, CPU/GPU combinations, power supplies and even cases. Not until the Slim unit came along, did RROD permanently cease to exist. How many reliability issues have you heard about with the newer 2010-later slim 360s? None.

So I do believe the biggest problem with RROD.. is that thermal paste connecting the CPU to the heatsink was faulty. It would crack and eventually the CPU would pop away. A fellow forum member Spyder6969 or something like that.. has much more experience with actual causes of RROD. As he would repair broken units for a fee.. or either sell them for a profit. He can chime on with his thoughts. But the fact still remains that it took MS quite a while to finally get the issues figured out. I cannot imagine that was their "plan" all along.

And a 3 year warranty isn't going to happen on consoles, computers, tablets, phones, TV's, etc. Because no manufacturer wants to deal with supporting product hardware for that long. Most consumer electronics come with a 1 year warranty. Better brands come with a 2 year warranty. Finding a consumer electronic good with a 3 year or longer warranty is pretty rare these days. That said, if warranty concerns really worry you.. shop at places like Costco that give "free" extended warranties or be sure to use a credit card like American Express that will also extend the warranty of your purchases with no additional charge.

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post #7582 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

In order for your car analogy to make sense Microsoft would need to sell a cheaper ( maybe minus Kinect) stronger version for the hardcore gamers. Good luck with that. My analogy made sense. Car buyers don't say hey look, Ford has Sync, lets go buy one. Apps are the last thing they're looking for in a car. Apps are the last thing I, and apparently many others, are looking for in a console.

The reason I bring up the RROD is because it was such a disaster. The turn around to get a 360 repaired and sent back was more than a month. Many people were buying second and third 360's because they didn't want to wait a month and a half. Something like that can happen again. Msoft has flip flopped on so many things already, I'd be amazed if the final console isn't riddled with bugs.

Dude, stop being so literal. Analogy: the 911 buyer represents your core 'hardcore' gamer, the Cayenne represents your paranoia regarding Microsoft's pandering to the 'casuals'. You're completely missing the point.

To your second point, do you honestly think that a company with as much to lose on a product as Microsoft has on the XBone is going to risk another PR nightmare and, more importantly, risk the millions of dollars it cost them in warranty work again?

Could it happen again? Sure. But I doubt it will. Something tells me that hardware reliability will be the number one priority this time around. 360 was introduced in what was almost an arms race between the console suppliers at the time. There was pressure to push the project out the door and beat Sony to market. This time I get the impression that development times were much less compressed for each of the systems.

If you're worried: don't buy one! I, for one, never like to be a cutting edge/bleeding edge guy... Now I'm going to go get into my 2013 FR-S with the squeaky fuel pump and drive to work. smile.gif

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post #7583 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

1. You got it.

2. Absolutely.

3. 120hz on its own? Nothing. Most 120hz sets will feature frame interpolation , that will crudely smooth out the frame rate to mimic 120fps, but always adds a lot of lag, and usually looks terrible.

4. Depends on your definition of huge, but no, not really.

Many plasmas have excellent lag, and lots of LCDs don't. LCDs are brighter, but plasmas arent exactly dim.

Yup, the input lag on my Panny G25 is almost non existent...well it is a lot less than what my old Vizio LCD was anyway.

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post #7584 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

And a 3 year warranty isn't going to happen on consoles, computers, tablets, phones, TV's, etc. Because no manufacturer wants to deal with supporting product hardware for that long. Most consumer electronics come with a 1 year warranty. Better brands come with a 2 year warranty. Finding a consumer electronic good with a 3 year or longer warranty is pretty rare these days. That said, if warranty concerns really worry you.. shop at places like Costco that give "free" extended warranties or be sure to use a credit card like American Express that will also extend the warranty of your purchases with no additional charge.

True, but I can't recall any other high profile consumer electronics devices with such an epic fail rate.

It's not such a crazy idea though. A lot of people were skittish about buying hyundais because they had a reputation for being cheap and throwaway...so they started offering those 10yr/100K warranties and now they're everywhere. People had concerns over the batteries in hybrid cars dying prematurely, so the warranty on those is at least 10/100K as well.

I bought a washing machine for like $600, just a bit more than an X1, and some parts in there have a 5 or 10 year warranty as well. And you know what? It broke down on me after 3 years, and they came to my house and repaired for free. Now I'd never consider buying a washer without at least a 5 year warranty.

I've got more money than sense so I'm buying both anyway. But imagine the hundreds of thousands of parents out there who bought their kid a 360 and watched it die prematurely. They don't wanna deal with little Timmy crying cause his Xbox keeps breaking down. There's plenty of gamers out there who say they're waiting out the first year just to be sure it's reliable. I think they're leaving money on the table by not standing behind their product...a product with a really bad track record.

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post #7585 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

Xbox One Smartglass details:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/09/ent-xbox-one-smartglass

The biggest difference is a confirmation of this, I think. It was already assumed from the One's Wifi Direct support, but nice to see it confirmed...

Just to pick a nit, I don't see any mention of WiDi in that interview. "directly...over your Wi-Fi" is not WiFi Direct. It just works like any other LAN IP remote app, finding your Xbox on your wireless LAN. I have Android apps like that for my TiVo, Rokus and BD players.

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post #7586 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:40 AM
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Sorry to go OT, but since w're kind of on the subject...

My personal opinion is one of the driving causes for RROD was a combination of the thermal interface material and the X-shaped retention spring hardware. It looks to me like the TIM in the XBox 360s (at least, the failed one I fixed) was a phase-change material. Such TIMs can be a relatively inexpensive way to get a low thermal-impedance connection. A disadvantage is that they require a persistent pressure on the interface -- otherwise when the phase change occurs, contact is degraded. That's what the X-shaped retention springs were supposed to take care of, but I'd argue they were not consistently successful.

The fix I did for a friend involved scrapping the X-shaped hardware and cleaning off the phase-change TIM. The TIM was then replaced with thermal grease (boring ol' Dow Corning, not Arctic Silver or anything fancy like that) and screws were run into the tapped holes on the bottom of the heatsinks (where the studs the X-shaped hardware attached to used to reside). Worked a treat, and that box hasn't had any problems since. The key difference is with grease, you don't have to account for volume change/flow due to a phase change, so you can just bolt the interface together (though you naturally have to be careful not to apply too much force on the processor if you don't have any standoffs/compression stops).

That being said, I don't fault MS for not using thermal grease. In a VERY HIGH volume production situation, with operators that are going to be minimally trained, trying to use the grease and screws method would be a nightmare. Phase change TIM had a higher chance for success, but between the design of the X-shaped hardware and possibly the TIM chosen (maybe it was susceptible to pump-out/dryout), it didn't reach that potential.


I suspect lessons were learned and applied to the XBox One, and this failure mode will not be repeated.
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post #7587 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 10:42 AM
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I know this is the xbox one thread, but what's everyone's plans for there 360's with one just around the corner?
I'm worried about the back catalog of games I have and loosing them being for ever.. Do you think Microsoft/third parties do some porting/backwards comp ability? Once my slim dies or I get sick of having both consoles hooked up I would gladly pay $5-10 for Halo(s), Max Payne 3, Crysis 2 etc I don't need revamped graphics..
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post #7588 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 11:05 AM
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The BC has been discussed but current comment from Microsoft is that there are no current plans for BC. The suggestion is that Microsoft would use the cloud to stream in a similar fashion to Sony via Gai??? sp?. However, nothing remotely concrete to that yet. That is at least a few years out, if it ever happens. My guess. 1 in 20. I will likely keep my 360's, just for nostalgia and occasional playing of games and arcade. I still have older systems, so no need to change now.
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post #7589 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 11:20 AM
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I think MS will do it if it makes business sense, or MAYBE if Sony keeps making all kinds of noise about it. But really, I can't see myself paying extra to play a bunch of games that have long since been outdated. I have my Xbox, and I have my Xbox360. I played my Xbox once or twice since I got the 360, so that probably says something about how much actual use a service like Sony's Gaiaka might see.

Frankly, I think MS would be better off saving their money and server space for next-gen applications, rather than legacy stuff. I bet they are thinking the same thing. But, while Sony is busy touting its game streaming B/C service, no reason why MS shouldn't be saying "well... we have the infrastructure to do the same thing if we feel like it".

I'll take cloud processing over game streaming any day, personally. Though, if Gaikai is free on PS4, I will undoubtedly make some use of it.

Gaikai... Gaiaka... I FORGET! biggrin.gif
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post #7590 of 17036 Old 09-06-2013, 11:27 AM
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http://www.gamepolitics.com/2013/09/06/jinni-chosen-xbox-video-discovery-engine#.UioeWz_hfmA

Video content analysis? So if you're planning on using your Xbox One to look for twerking videos and midget porn... think again! tongue.gif

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