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post #8371 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Google is your friend...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=xbox+one+game+upgrade&l=1

No, you sir, are my friend...biggrin.gif

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post #8372 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

No, you sir, are my friend...biggrin.gif

Unfortunately blocked at work (^%$#^@$@#$#%# IT dept)

Basically idea is you can trade in the 360 version for the Xbox One version and it will only cost you $10.

Amazon will support eight games over GameStop's five: Battlefield 4, Need for Speed: Rivals, Madden NFL 25, Call of Duty: Ghosts, FIFA 14, Watch Dogs, NBA 2K13 and Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag. Just make sure you read the full terms and conditions before you start boxing up your games. okay?

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post #8373 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

Basically idea is you can trade in the 360 version for the Xbox One version and it will only cost you $10.


And now you are my friend too!!biggrin.gif

Thanks

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post #8374 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:30 AM
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Steely yes there are several options

"GameStop isn't the only establishment offering Xbox One upgrades. Amazon has announced it too will allow users to upgrade from their Xbox 360 game to the same version on Xbox One, for a $10 fee.

Each eligible Xbox 360 game traded in to Amazon prior to December 31 will be valued at $25 and, as part of this promotion, Amazon will tack on another $25. That leaves you to make up the $10 in-between.

Amazon will support eight games over GameStop's five: Battlefield 4, Need for Speed: Rivals, Madden NFL 25, Call of Duty: Ghosts, FIFA 14, Watch Dogs, NBA 2K13 and Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag. Just make sure you read the full terms and conditions before you start boxing up your games. okay?"


Also there is a special digital version that will be available to purchase on the 360 for $69 (great if you had points that were converted to dollars recently) that gives you the digital version on the 360 and then when the One hits you move it to there.

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post #8375 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:30 AM
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If you get CoD digitally, you pay $70 and get 2 licenses (1 for 360 and 1 for One). So if they let you keep your 360 license, it's like half off for each game. smile.gif
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post #8376 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:35 AM
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you forgot to mention that Amazon has one severe limitation that the Gamestop offer doesn't.

If you have a shopping cart of multiple titles, Amazon will only apply it to one item. To get around the limitation, you probably can do multiple orders but it's unclear until someone does it. With Gamestop, you can load up the cart and it's not an issue.

Amazon's terms and conditions: "The promotion is limited to one per title per customer. If there is more than one eligible item in your Shopping Cart, the promotion applies to only the lowest priced item"


edit:
I looked at the wording this time around and it's different than when the program was first announced. at the first announcement: "The promotion is limited to one per customer. If there is more than one eligible item in your Shopping Cart, the promotion applies to only the lowest priced item."

so perhaps you can now have multiple titles but one copy of each title? either way, the Gamestop deal is more clearly delineated and straightforward and apparently no restrictions if you're going this route.
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post #8377 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 11:44 AM
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Sheeesh!! I have sooo many friends!!

Thanks all!! Yeah I can see me making a knee jerk purchase while not reading everything.... I may have to actually buy the digital copy for myself this run..

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post #8378 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

If you get CoD digitally, you pay $70 and get 2 licenses (1 for 360 and 1 for One). So if they let you keep your 360 license, it's like half off for each game. smile.gif

It sound slike the digital version will be the easiest one to deal with. Plus for me that's all I want to deal with on the XBOne. But at least this way I'll be able to play ghosts for a few weeks on my 360 until I get my XBOne.

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post #8379 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Curious why they wouldn't just pack in a DVD with the update then.

What percentage of these boxes will be purchased by people with no Internet access anyway? How likely are such Luddites to have televisions or even electricity in their homes biggrin.gif? It's environmentally irresponsible to send out millions upon millions of discs which will simply be tossed.

I say let people who need them and can't otherwise get them order them from MS for free. Being able to play the system on the day that you get it is not a life-or-death thing and just another cross to be born by the disenfranchised unconnected smile.gif.

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post #8380 of 17038 Old 10-01-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What percentage of these boxes will be purchased by people with no Internet access anyway? How likely are such Luddites to have televisions or even electricity in their homes biggrin.gif? It's environmentally irresponsible to send out millions upon millions of discs which will simply be tossed.

I say let people who need them and can't otherwise get them order them from MS for free. Being able to play the system on the day that you get it is not a life-or-death thing and just another cross to be born by the disenfranchised unconnected smile.gif.

Iol, now I'm wondering why Sony and MS aren't greenwashing their efforts to push people to digital. They're doing it to save the world!

I think the idea of shipping it primarily as a demo disc is a really good one. Other than that, I hope the Xbox one at least displays a URL where you can DL the update to a USB stick on a PC. It's not gonna effect a lot of people, but they should at least be prepared.

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post #8381 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 06:54 AM
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers
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Xbox One reserves 10 per cent of graphics resources for Kinect and apps functionality, Digital Foundry can confirm, with Microsoft planning to open up this additional GPU power for game development in the future. This, and further graphics and performance-based information was revealed during our lengthy discussions with two of the architects behind the Xbox One silicon.

"Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode," Microsoft technical fellow Andrew Goossen told us.

"The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development - strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering. In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."

Once you get over the initial surprise that the background system takes up quite so much GPU time in the first place, the notion of being able to give developers access to this resource while not compromising functionality may sound rather like having your cake and eating it, but Microsoft points to particular aspects of the GPU hardware that make this scenario possible.

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

Having attempted to comprehensively address questions about the ESRAM and system memory bandwidth of the architecture, the issue of the Xbox One's fill-rate and ROPs deficit compared to PlayStation 4 is now under the microscope. ROPs are the elements of the GPU that physically write the final image from pixel, vector and texel information: PlayStation 4's 32 ROPs are generally acknowledged as overkill for a 1080p resolution (the underlying architecture from AMD was never designed exclusively just for full HD but for other resolutions such as 2560x1400/2560x1600 too), while Xbox One's 16 ROPs could theoretically be overwhelmed by developers.

In our interview, Microsoft revealed research it had carried out that suggested that the 6.6 per cent increase to GPU clock speed was more beneficial to the system than two additional AMD Radeon Graphics Core Next compute units. Our question was straightforward enough - were the results of these tests skewed by the code saturating the ROPs?

"We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel."
Previous Next View all

1/22 The news that first-party exclusive Killer Instinct operates at a native resolution of 720p has surprised - and not impressed - a lot of gamers.

"Yes, some parts of the frames may have been ROP-bound. However, in our more detailed analysis we've found that the portions of typical game content frames that are bound on ROP and not bound on bandwidth are generally quite small. The primary reason that the 6.6 per cent clock speed boost was a win over additional CUs was because it lifted all internal parts of the pipeline such as vertex rate, triangle rate, draw issue rate etc," Goossen explained.

"The goal of a 'balanced' system is by definition not to be consistently bottlenecked on any one area. In general with a balanced system there should rarely be a single bottleneck over the course of any given frame - parts of the frame can be fill-rate bound, other can be ALU bound, others can be fetch bound, others can be memory bound, others can be wave occupancy bound, others can be draw-setup bound, others can be state change bound, etc. To complicate matters further, the GPU bottlenecks can change within the course of a single draw call!"

Obviously though, it stands to reason that having more ROPs on call is the preferable scenario, even if they remain largely unused - and that's what PlayStation 4 offers. Microsoft's pitch is that its hardware set-up wouldn't necessarily be able to make use of them even if they were there.

"The relationship between fill-rate and memory bandwidth is a good example of where balance is necessary. A high fill-rate won't help if the memory system can't sustain the bandwidth required to run at that fill-rate," said Goossen.

"For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z [depth] enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth. In this case, even if we had doubled the number of ROPs, the effective fill-rate would not have changed because we would be bottlenecked on bandwidth. In other words, we balanced our ROPs to our bandwidth for our target scenarios. Keep in mind that bandwidth is also needed for vertex and texture data as well, which in our case typically comes from DDR3."

Our take on the ROPs situation is that while these figures make perfect sense, there are many other scenarios that could be potentially challenging - depth-only passes, shadows, alpha test and Z pre-pass for example. But from a user perspective, the fact is that native 1080p isn't supported on key first-party titles like Ryse and Killer Instinct. Assuming this isn't a pixel fill-rate issue as Microsoft suggests, surely at the very least, this impacts the balanced system argument?

"In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU [system] reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."
Previous Next View all

1/42 Forza Motorsport 5 is Xbox One's standout title, operating at full 1080p with a smooth 60fps update. As an embedded first party studio, Turn 10 would presumably have had more intimate access to the new hardware at an earlier stage than other developers.

"We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel. With a high quality scaler and anti-aliasing and render resolutions such as 720p or '900p', some games look better with more GPU processing going to each pixel than to the number of pixels; others look better at 1080p with less GPU processing per pixel," replied Goossen.

"We built Xbox One with a higher quality scaler than on Xbox 360, and added an additional display plane, to provide more freedom to developers in this area. This matter of choice was a lesson we learned from Xbox 360 where at launch we had a Technical Certification Requirement mandate that all titles had to be 720p or better with at least 2x anti-aliasing - and we later ended up eliminating that TCR as we found it was ultimately better to allow developers to make the resolution decision themselves. Game developers are naturally incented to make the highest quality visuals possible and so will choose the most appropriate trade-off between quality of each pixel vs. number of pixels for their games."

A well-placed insider with an established background in AAA multi-platform experience, currently working with next-gen hardware, was rather more pragmatic in his assessment of the 1080p situation.

"We will probably see a lot of sub-1080p games (with hardware upscale), but this is probably because there is not enough time to learn the GPU when the development environment, and sometimes clock speeds, are changing underneath you," our source said, referring to the Xbox One's evolving "mono driver" and last-minute hardware tweaks.

"If a studio releases a sub-1080p game then is it because they can't make it run at 1080p? Is it because they don't possess the skills or experience in-house? Or is it a design choice to make their game run at a stable frame-rate for launch?"

We'll be publishing the entirety of our interview with the Xbox One architects this weekend, covering off topics including the Xbox 360 post-mortem, Microsoft's approach to GPU compute, the innovative approach to virtualisation, the choice of CPU architecture and much, much more. Over 7,500 words in total, and essential reading for anyone interested in the technological make-up of Microsoft's next-generation console.
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post #8382 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:21 AM
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers
Lots more good stuff in this article
Interesting read . Bottom line for me is as long as it looks good and plays good I don't really care what the resolution is going to be since it will upscale it to fit the native resolution of the TV. One thing that is for sure is the comments after these articles are fun to read since everyone seems to be a tech genius.
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post #8383 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:21 AM
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Blocked at work, could someone be kind enough to copy/paste?
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post #8384 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:24 AM
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Blocked at work, could someone be kind enough to copy/paste?
Sent it in a PM for you.

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post #8385 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:25 AM
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Blocked at work, could someone be kind enough to copy/paste?

updated my post with the full version...
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post #8386 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 AM
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Where's bd to tell us what this means, lol
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post #8387 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 07:58 AM
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I think it means parity.


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post #8388 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 08:01 AM
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What it means it that its a shame that the Developers don't have an extra 10% to play with on the launch titles.
The snap feature and live tiles are great gimmicky things but 10% was a high price to pay. It took a couple kicks in the teeth but MS is at least trying to give this back to the developers.
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post #8389 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

What it means it that its a shame that the Developers don't have an extra 10% to play with on the launch titles.
The snap feature and live tiles are great gimmicky things but 10% was a high price to pay. It took a couple kicks in the teeth but MS is at least trying to give this back to the developers.

So Master Chief's pupils won't really be dilating behind the visor?smile.gif


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post #8390 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

What it means it that its a shame that the Developers don't have an extra 10% to play with on the launch titles.
The snap feature and live tiles are great gimmicky things but 10% was a high price to pay. It took a couple kicks in the teeth but MS is at least trying to give this back to the developers.
But what it really means is that just like the current generation, they'll optimize things over the system's lifespan. They've done this with the 360 with system updates, including one that gave devs more space on the discs. So let's not act like this is too big a deal just yet. wink.gif

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post #8391 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 08:37 AM
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But what it really means is that just like the current generation, they'll optimize things over the system's lifespan. They've done this with the 360 with system updates, including one that gave devs more space on the discs. So let's not act like this is too big a deal just yet. wink.gif
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post #8392 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 08:52 AM
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10% seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to dedicate to the OS.

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Where's bd to tell us what this means, lol

90/10 GPU split for games/system with the possibility of giving some system resources back as they optimize the OS.

Or as someone humorously put it at neogaf, PS4 now 56% more powerful (until they release their GPU game/system split, of course).
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post #8394 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a heads up for comcast customers thinking about going all digital for next gen, comcast is going backt to a data cap system. You are allotted 300gb/month, if you go over they give you an addition 50gb for $10 (charged automatically).

Turns out they've been testing this in markets, I just received my email today in Huntsville, AL. It's spreading...
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post #8395 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 12:11 PM
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Just a heads up for comcast customers thinking about going all digital for next gen, comcast is going backt to a data cap system. You are allotted 300gb/month, if you go over they give you an addition 50gb for $10 (charged automatically).

Turns out they've been testing this in markets, I just received my email today in Huntsville, AL. It's spreading...
Yup... Got my e-mail a few weeks back. Probably not a big deal post-launch, but no way I could snag 6 digital titles at launch (plus the other two systems that will be in the house). Gonna buy discs and let other people use them to install and license, then sell the discs off later. It's funny how every time our infrastructure takes a step forward, it almost immediately takes a big step back.

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post #8396 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Just a heads up for comcast customers thinking about going all digital for next gen, comcast is going backt to a data cap system. You are allotted 300gb/month, if you go over they give you an addition 50gb for $10 (charged automatically).

Turns out they've been testing this in markets, I just received my email today in Huntsville, AL. It's spreading...

Man, I hope Cox doesn't start charging for going over the cap. I go over my 350 GB regularly. They throttle the heck out of me when I do (less than 3 mbps some nights).

At least Comcast doesn't count digital TV as part of your data. That's a plus on their side. That would've had their customers up in arms (but then the net neutrality proponents like Netflix are crying foul).
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I'd rather they charged me than throttled me, but 350GB doesn't seem so bad.

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post #8398 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 03:39 PM
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I think a couple months ago, I passed 500 GB. So at $10 per 50, yeah... that's a lot for the low speed tier I'm paying for (at a not so low price).
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post #8399 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Gonna buy discs and let other people use them to install and license, then sell the discs off later.

How exactly is that going to work? As I understand it, if you install from disc the disc has to be in the drive when you play, just like now.

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post #8400 of 17038 Old 10-02-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

How exactly is that going to work? As I understand it, if you install from disc the disc has to be in the drive when you play, just like now.

You can install from the disc, and then buy a digital license without having to redownload it.

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