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post #13231 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeRich View Post

The latest NPD numbers seem to support this as well.

I believe that the latest NPD numbers show that more game sales for 360+XB1 than for PS3+PS4.

I don't believe that he was talking about the Xbox program earning a profit, but about hardware. This is the first generation in the past few where at launch nobody's losing money on the hardware, making it lot easier to realize a profit.

Despite some theorizing, I personally don't see MS dropping Xbox. It's a lot of the current "face" of MS.

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post #13232 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 08:32 PM
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What considerable advantage does MS have? I'd say that Titanfall is the only exclusive for either platform that really stands out and since it's not out, can't be counted atm. The latest NPD numbers seem to suggest that xb1 software sales are low . Aside from that, every non-exclusive game that's available for both platforms plays better on the PS4. The latest NPD numbers seem to support this as well.
On the business side, I don't think MS has ever turned a profit on the xbox. I am not sure the new CEO will have the ability to continue to lose billions in a coke vs pepsi fight over video games. Those billions would be better spent in the enterprise space where MS has dominated or in new markets, IMO.

Rayman Legends has dethroned the PS4 temporarily. Wii U is king for the day tongue.gif

Complete article at the link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-rayman-legends-next-gen-face-off

"There's not much next-gen consoles can do to improve the 2D rendering, so the result is a game that is mostly identical to the existing versions of Rayman Legends."

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Rayman Legends: the Digital Foundry verdict

Outside of a few new characters and limited use of the touchpad on the PS4's Dual Shock 4, there's no real reason to upgrade to the Xbox One and PS4 versions of Rayman Legends if you already own the game on other formats. Visual upgrades are close to non-existent and the experience is basically the same as the existing PS3, Xbox 360 and PC version of the game. Even the audio remains in stereo - just as it did on all the other versions we've tested. However, if you've yet to take the plunge the PS4 and Xbox One editions offer up a further opportunity to play what was undoubtedly one of the finest games of 2013.

All of which leads us up to an interesting conclusion. Despite the enormous leap in power the new consoles represent, in our opinion it's the Wii U version of Rayman Legends that remains the definitive edition of the game, with the title taking advantage of the GamePad's unique features in ways that genuinely add variety and more fun to the gameplay. Let's not forget that while this game may have been ported to a vast range of different hardware platforms, it started out life as a Wii U exclusive, built around the unique capabilities of the system. Indeed, it's the Nintendo console that offers the experience that the developers originally intended for the game, before the last-minute switch to a multi-platform release.

Meanwhile, the other versions of Rayman Legends each offer up an equally superb experience for those who aren't keen on some of the quirky controller features on the Wii U game. The PS4 and Xbox One editions serve up a tiny slice of extra content in the form of new characters and a barely noticeable bump in texture clarity in some scenes, but these additions aren't worth paying a premium for over the heavily discounted previous versions of the game. Right now Rayman Legends is available online for around £17 on the last-gen consoles and PC, while the PS4 and Xbox One releases command a price premium that is short on delivering much in the way of worthwhile extras.
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post #13233 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I believe that the latest NPD numbers show that more game sales for 360+XB1 than for PS3+PS4.

I don't believe that he was talking about the Xbox program earning a profit, but about hardware. This is the first generation in the past few where at launch nobody's losing money on the hardware, making it lot easier to realize a profit.

Despite some theorizing, I personally don't see MS dropping Xbox. It's a lot of the current "face" of MS.

MS does have this weird sort of reckoning coming if they don't turn their consumer side around. I don't see how they can make windows tablets or phones work when android is free, and chromeOS and OS X are steadily eating into the consumer desktop market. Charging $100+ for a windows license and $300 for office is becoming untenable on the consumer side, but they can still easily rake in that premium with their lock-in of the business/corporate side. But I doubt enterprise would stand for them selling basically the same windows OS for $30 a pop to consumers and $200 to them. So I can see them just throwing in the towel on the consumer side to protect the enterprise market, and Xbox would be the odd man out in that scenario.

For what it's worth, MS dropping Xbox isn't necessarily the end of the world...look at Lenovo, they're the #1 PC manufacturer right now, but despite the change in management they still look and feel like IBM thinkpads. It could work out really well for everyone involved, including gamers.

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post #13234 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 08:54 PM
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MS does have this weird sort of reckoning coming if they don't turn their consumer side around. I don't see how they can make windows tablets or phones work when android is free, and chromeOS and OS X are steadily eating into the consumer desktop market. Charging $100+ for a windows license and $300 for office is becoming untenable on the consumer side, but they can still easily rake in that premium with their lock-in of the business/corporate side. But I doubt enterprise would stand for them selling basically the same windows OS for $30 a pop to consumers and $200 to them. So I can see them just throwing in the towel on the consumer side to protect the enterprise market, and Xbox would be the odd man out in that scenario.
.

No need to exaggerate. Your numbers are way off. Office is not $300 and never has been $300. You can get a 5 user license for $99/year if you go with Office 365. And if you're considering corporate, it's cheaper the more users you have. Or if you're the type to never upgrade Office, you can buy Office for $150 for a single user license.

ChromeOS and OS X marketshare is miniscule and that's giving them more credit than they deserve. And they know they can't throw in the consumer side and will never do so. It's more likely that Sony disappears (with all the money problems they have) than Microsoft throws in the consumer side. Microsoft still rakes in well over $24 billion in profit quarterly.
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post #13235 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post


No need to exaggerate. Your numbers are way off. Office is not $300 and never has been $300. You can get a 5 user license for $99/year if you go with Office 365. And if you're considering corporate, it's cheaper the more users you have. Or if you're the type to never upgrade Office, you can buy Office for $150 for a single user license.

ChromeOS and OS X marketshare is miniscule and that's giving them more credit than they deserve. And they know they can't throw in the consumer side and will never do so. It's more likely that Sony disappears (with all the money problems they have) than Microsoft throws in the consumer side. Microsoft still rakes in well over $24 billion in profit quarterly.

 

You're right, it's $400 retail for the pro version. $220 for the lowest version with outlook (and every place I've ever worked uses outlook). Corporate gets a break with the volume licenses but it's still hundreds of dollars per user for windows and office combined.

 

I just googled this, seems legit enough: http://www.tannerhelland.com/4993/microsoft-money-updated-2013/

 

The vast, vast majority of their income comes from non-consumer ventures. Xbox/entertainment revenue makes up only 10% and looks like maybe 2-3% of profit by eyeballing the income chart. I agree Sony on the whole is much more in peril, but even if xbox brings in a little it's still small potatoes compared to what they really make their money on. They could absolutely throw out the consumer side out without batting an eyelash.  

 

I'm not counting out a comeback, but the wind isn't blowing in their direction in the consumer space right now. I don't think it's imminent, but the idea of MS taking a step back and reevaluating where they focus their energy really isn't that absurd of a proposition. And I dont think gamers have anything to be afraid of if that happens either, the xbox brand is way too valuable to go away.

 

Ultimately I want them to be competitive since everyone wins in that case, but the incessant need to drag one product down to prop up another doesn't make for great products. They let PC gaming languish while they chased consoles - there's no reason steam should be the driving force in PC gaming, let alone moving towards making proper controller-driven living room PCs. That should have been Microsoft all along!       


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post #13236 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 09:52 PM
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this past quarter where there was $24 billion in PROFIT. Almost $13 billion came from the business division. Almost $12 billion of profit came from the consumer division.

again, you like to exaggerate and take threads way off topic. on the pricing for Office, it's like you're taking the most possibly expensive bundle and calling that the most commonly sold bundle. Like saying the $10K white Xbox One means the average price of the One is $10K.

And why are you now dragging Steam into this? another deflection?
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post #13237 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

this past quarter where there was $24 billion in PROFIT. Almost $13 billion came from the business division. Almost $12 billion of profit came from the consumer division.

again, you like to exaggerate and take threads way off topic. I still have no idea where you're getting your pricing on Office by the way... it's like you're taking the most possibly expensive bundle and calling that the most commonly sold bundle. Like saying the $10K white Xbox One means the average price of the One is $10K.

And why are you now dragging Steam into this? another deflection?

 

The office prices are from their website: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/

 

Based on their annual report: http://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar13/financial-review/discussion-analysis/index.html

 

Income was 9.5 billion from windows, 8 billion from server, 16 billion from business (office)...and just under one billion from entertainment and services.  Even if you count half of the windows business as consumer, it's still a small fraction of the overall pie.  

 

All I'm saying is that companies make much better products when they're focused. If there was some sort of split, both sides would prob make great things.      


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post #13238 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 10:47 PM
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Not sure about that $24 billion in profit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/24/us-microsoft-results-idUSBREA0M1W220140124
Quote:
Overall, Microsoft reported a fiscal second-quarter profit of $6.56 billion, or 78 cents per share, compared with $6.38 billion, or 76 cents per share, in the year-ago quarter.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/04/microsoft_financial_breakdown.html


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post #13239 of 16214 Old 02-18-2014, 11:28 PM
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I believe a company has to diversify or they can wither on the vine.

Unfortunately, no ones really knows how the console market will shake out in the future.

With tablets and smartphones being able to play games, the consoles could be in trouble simply because you eliminate the casual gamer from the equation. And the PC could dwindle just because there is a lot a tablet could do and they are only going to get more powerful. It just might be that MS will be in the best position to migrate the software to actually take advantage of this space.

A lot may depend on Steam as they seem to be in the best position to deliver software digitally and they know how to package it. I still downplay the Steambox and think it will be a big failure and may hurt the brand in some ways. I have seem them talking about a price between $500 and $2000 or more. And if it runs Linux or some variation, hackers will have a field day. You can play steam games now without going thru them. I like their service and pay for everything I have gotten but I never see me owning one of their boxes. Of course, I can put the beta on my machine now and run it perfectly fine. I would like to get my hands on one of those controllers and see how I can adapt it to my style of play.

But all of this talk is of an unsure future and it will still come down to software and what you want to do. I am old and disabled and playing video games mostly because it helps me enjoy my day. I enjoy meeting new people
even if it is just to chat about things in common. Before Xbox live I had never gamed with a person from England, Australia and Washington state at the same time. These are good days to be a gamer. It sounds like the PS4 crowd has improved service and I applaud Sony for getting it right. This aspect of gaming is more next gen than us old folks could have imagined 30 years ago. For this, I am in just for the ride as by the time most of you are my age there are going to be amazing things to do not even imagined yet. I expect in this regard MS could be at the forefront if they stay in the gaming business.
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post #13240 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Not sure about that $24 billion in profit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/24/us-microsoft-results-idUSBREA0M1W220140124
Quote:
Overall, Microsoft reported a fiscal second-quarter profit of $6.56 billion, or 78 cents per share, compared with $6.38 billion, or 76 cents per share, in the year-ago quarter.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/04/microsoft_financial_breakdown.html

Interesting--from that chart it looks like they haven't lost any money on entertainment (Xbox, etc) in the any recent year, though they haven't made a lot of money in that area either.

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post #13241 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 02:27 AM
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Looking at that MS chart. If each Segment is operating income, add each of them together and it looks like they made over 24 Billion on the year.
Quote:
Overall revenue rose 14 percent to $24.5 billion, also beating Wall Street's forecast of $23.7 billion, helped by higher sales of Microsoft's perennially strong business offerings, including server software, the Office suite of applications and quickly growing 'cloud,' or Internet-based, computing services.
This looks to be their annual revenue. Hell even at 6.56 Billion in a quarter that is still pretty damn impressive.

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post #13242 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Interesting--from that chart it looks like they haven't lost any money on entertainment (Xbox, etc) in the any recent year, though they haven't made a lot of money in that area either.

Yeah, it's hard to tell from the chart, but if you add up all the losses from the early 2000s and the profits from 2010 on, they're barely breaking even long term.

I dunno what the new guy has planned, but I can see how shareholders can look at those financials and consider the Xbox division nothing more than a distraction from fixing the windows division. Come to think of it, I've prob got more at stake in this than I realize in my 401k... tongue.gif

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post #13243 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 05:16 AM
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Split off or not, I think they've got a valid path to recovery if they insulate their products from one another, and there's reason to believe they're going down that path with the Xbox one with their virtualization/multiple OS scheme. Instead of building one monolithic version of windows, they can make it more modular and split off development. The X1 technically has two OSes, the system/media side and the gaming side. They should do the same for windows, and drive a wedge between the tablet side and the desktop side. And then further drive a wedge between the consumer and business versions of windows. So in the end they'd have consumer windows, business windows, mobile windows, living room windows (Xbox OS) and the gaming core. Any kind of product you could think of could ship with one or many of those parts where appropriate. You could have a consumer desktop PC that can run Xbox games without having to deal with the metro interface, a tablet that's pure mobile without the desktop intrusion. Or a living room PC that runs the Xbox OS and gaming. They could develop them and sell/license them separately, so each division could focus solely on making the best product in the category without making compromises to suit the other ones.

The X1 might just be the first product of that type, except they're the only one making the hardware (at the moment.)
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post #13244 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 05:42 AM
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I think it comes down to how fluid your experience w/ Kinect is as far as the UI. My DLP's slight background noise is the culprit I think, so for me it's meh or so-so at best. it's an annoyance at worst when you're raising your voice for the 2nd attempt.

My DLP set doesn't cause any issues with my primary XBOne. The fan is always on, constantly running, but Kinect has been every accurate and responsive for me.

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post #13245 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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From IGN:
"In addition to storage space management and a battery indicator, it seems the Xbox One's latest update also introduces a new bug - the possibility of being presented with a black screen after turning the console on.

The problem seems to affect only a few users, but is widespread enough to have warranted a few Xbox forum threads. Thankfully, it does not seem to be serious; Microsoft is aware of it and is offering affected users a quick fix.
"If it happens, please power cycle by holding power for 10 seconds," advises the Xbox support Twitter account.
Hopefully affected users won't have to resort to doing this for too long; as Microsoft is currently working on a long-term solution.

"We are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution," Microsoft said in a statement to Kotaku. "This does not appear to be widespread, but can be addressed by the player by holding the Xbox One power button on the console for 10 seconds to restart."
The update rolled out on Valentine's Day after a short delay. A second update is already scheduled for March, and will include party and multiplayer options to help get your console ready for Titanfall's official release."


I am having this issue. I thought it was just the titanfall beta that was causing it. Every time I've had the black screen it was after launching the TitanFall beta and then pressing hte xbox button to go back to the dashboard. Screen would turn black but xbox wasn't frozen because you could still hear the sounds when moving through icons.

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post #13246 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 06:14 AM
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"
But don't worry; Microsoft have a quick fix while they work on a more permanent solution.

BY: KATIE WILLIAMS
FEBRUARY 18, 2014

In addition to storage space management and a battery indicator, it seems the Xbox One's latest update also introduces a new bug - the possibility of being presented with a black screen after turning the console on.
ADVERTISEMENT

The problem seems to affect only a few users, but is widespread enough to have warranted a few Xbox forum threads. Thankfully, it does not seem to be serious; Microsoft is aware of it and is offering affected users a quick fix.
"If it happens, please power cycle by holding power for 10 seconds," advises the Xbox support Twitter account.
Hopefully affected users won't have to resort to doing this for too long; as Microsoft is currently working on a long-term solution.

"We are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution," Microsoft said in a statement to Kotaku. "This does not appear to be widespread, but can be addressed by the player by holding the Xbox One power button on the console for 10 seconds to restart."
The update rolled out on Valentine's Day after a short delay. A second update is already scheduled for March, and will include party and multiplayer options to help get your console ready for Titanfall's official release.

I ran into this issue last night on my main XBOne. I've yet to run into it on my secondary XBOne. AFter it happened a couple of times last night I turned HDMI Hot plugging on in my video processor, and I didn't see it happen again. When I saw the issue, it happened when I switched to other inputs and came back to the XBOne. As long as I didn't switch to different sources I was fine. But with the Hot plugging option on in my VP I hopefully don't need to worry about the issue. At least it didn't crop up again after I turned that feature on for the XBOne input.

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post #13247 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

From IGN:
"In addition to storage space management and a battery indicator, it seems the Xbox One's latest update also introduces a new bug - the possibility of being presented with a black screen after turning the console on.

The problem seems to affect only a few users, but is widespread enough to have warranted a few Xbox forum threads. Thankfully, it does not seem to be serious; Microsoft is aware of it and is offering affected users a quick fix.
"If it happens, please power cycle by holding power for 10 seconds," advises the Xbox support Twitter account.
Hopefully affected users won't have to resort to doing this for too long; as Microsoft is currently working on a long-term solution.

"We are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution," Microsoft said in a statement to Kotaku. "This does not appear to be widespread, but can be addressed by the player by holding the Xbox One power button on the console for 10 seconds to restart."
The update rolled out on Valentine's Day after a short delay. A second update is already scheduled for March, and will include party and multiplayer options to help get your console ready for Titanfall's official release."


I am having this issue. I thought it was just the titanfall beta that was causing it. Every time I've had the black screen it was after launching the TitanFall beta and then pressing hte xbox button to go back to the dashboard. Screen would turn black but xbox wasn't frozen because you could still hear the sounds when moving through icons.

This happened to me last night when I hit the Xbox button to go to the home screen from Forza. I fixed it by physically unplugging the X1. It's the only time it's happened, and I use my primary X1 extensively. Hopefully they can fix it in time for the March patch.
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post #13248 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 06:58 AM
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I ran into this issue last night on my main XBOne. I've yet to run into it on my secondary XBOne. AFter it happened a couple of times last night I turned HDMI Hot plugging on in my video processor, and I didn't see it happen again. When I saw the issue, it happened when I switched to other inputs and came back to the XBOne. As long as I didn't switch to different sources I was fine. But with the Hot plugging option on in my VP I hopefully don't need to worry about the issue. At least it didn't crop up again after I turned that feature on for the XBOne input.
I had this same issue last night. I switch my receiver to CD and listening for a few minutes then switch back to TV, while the xbox and directv was still running, it gave me a black screen. The TV reconized the the singal coming in but it said "check connection or devices." I thought my receiver was not switching over. So, I held the power button down for a few seconds and it work after that. I knew it was the xbox and I was cussing the at the machine.
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post #13249 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 07:00 AM
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Yep, I've been bitten multiple times by the "black screen of death" since the February update. Glad I'm not alone!
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post #13250 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 07:06 AM
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Funny this happened to me last night except when I finished playing TitanFall I said "Xbox go to TV" and then the screen would flicker. I went to the homepage and it was only happening for the TV app. I returned to the Beta and Started Dead Rising 3 with no problems. Did a full power cycle and that fixed it.

The 5.0 is here
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post #13251 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

From IGN:
"In addition to storage space management and a battery indicator, it seems the Xbox One's latest update also introduces a new bug - the possibility of being presented with a black screen after turning the console on.

The problem seems to affect only a few users, but is widespread enough to have warranted a few Xbox forum threads. Thankfully, it does not seem to be serious; Microsoft is aware of it and is offering affected users a quick fix.
"If it happens, please power cycle by holding power for 10 seconds," advises the Xbox support Twitter account.
Hopefully affected users won't have to resort to doing this for too long; as Microsoft is currently working on a long-term solution.

"We are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution," Microsoft said in a statement to Kotaku. "This does not appear to be widespread, but can be addressed by the player by holding the Xbox One power button on the console for 10 seconds to restart."
The update rolled out on Valentine's Day after a short delay. A second update is already scheduled for March, and will include party and multiplayer options to help get your console ready for Titanfall's official release."


I am having this issue. I thought it was just the titanfall beta that was causing it. Every time I've had the black screen it was after launching the TitanFall beta and then pressing hte xbox button to go back to the dashboard. Screen would turn black but xbox wasn't frozen because you could still hear the sounds when moving through icons.
+1 here and good to know it is the power cycle by holding for 10 seconds (It is what I did to fix mine). I've only had it once so far. I better let the Mrs. know so if I am at work she can do a fix to watch TV.
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post #13252 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 07:40 AM
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How much money do you think Microsoft makes from Xbox Video and Xbox Music? I know I have made use of these features. Point is regardless of the number of consoles sold, do you think that Microsoft can be more profitable than PS4 and that the worry about beating PS4 in number consoles sold is mute as far as Microsoft is concerned. Also costing more per console means that they don't need to sell as many to begin with. As stated earlier they are making more money on games than PS4, albeit with 360 combined.

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post #13253 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Arutha_conDoin View Post

+1 here and good to know it is the power cycle by holding for 10 seconds (It is what I did to fix mine). I've only had it once so far. I better let the Mrs. know so if I am at work she can do a fix to watch TV.
I think its a good idea to power cycle after every new XB1 update going forward.
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post #13254 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:05 AM
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I power cycle once a week. I do it when I am dusting all my stuff. I figure I don't want it coming on while wiping the front of the console, so I power it down and unplug it. Since I started doing this, I haven't had any issues with apps hanging up.

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post #13255 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:24 AM
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post #13256 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:28 AM
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Why would MS give up a division that makes ~$1b per year? Because it lost money in the beginning? The idea to throw out a profitable division because it isn't as profitable as another is silly. For them, it isn't a choice between selling more higher profit items vs more lower profit items. It's selling as many items of both as it can.

$300 for consumer Office is silly. I paid $180 a few months ago for the version that has outlook included. I got it either at Amazon or Newegg.

MSFT had $83b in cash at the end of the most recent quarter. Sony's market cap is around $18b last time I looked. If anything, I'd say there is a bigger chance of MSFT buying Sony and rolling it into MSFT's entertainment division. Wouldn't that be a hoot.
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post #13257 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:40 AM
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Why would MS give up a division that makes ~$1b per year?

Wasn't there an article awhile back that Microsoft is actually losing money on everything Xbox related ? Like, they started off losing money, and they STILL are losing money. The guy explained that the only reason that Microsoft is showing a profit in their Entertainment and Devices division, is because they hold all these patents and Google has to pay Microsoft crazy sums of money for various patents, and all that money goes toward the Entertainment and Devices division, and it makes it look like that division is profitable, while the truth is, without those patents, they would be bleeding crazy amounts of money from that division.

In other words, Xbox is a money losing proposition for Microsoft, and it "continues" to be a money losing proposition for Microsoft.

I remember when this article first hit (maybe a month or two back), there was lots of discussion back and forth about whether this guy was off his rocker with this suggestion, or whether this was a deep dark Microsoft secret that was discovered when this guy spilled the beans about the patent revenue.


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-07-huge-xbox-losses-hidden-by-patent-royalties-says-analyst
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post #13258 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:49 AM
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By the way, Remo was right. Lower right hand corner is the stupid clock....Boy do I feel stupid.redface.gif

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post #13259 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:51 AM
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I think its a good idea to power cycle after every new XB1 update going forward.
I had done that already as well has redo the Kinect as well. That black screen still popped up anyways after that hard reboot. No big deal, part of the price we pay for being early adopters is working out some of the bugs. If you complain about that, then my thought is maybe you should wait a year or more after launch for both MS and Sony to iron out the wrinkles.

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post #13260 of 16214 Old 02-19-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Wasn't there an article awhile back that Microsoft is actually losing money on everything Xbox related ? Like, they started off losing money, and they STILL are losing money. The guy explained that the only reason that Microsoft is showing a profit in their Entertainment and Devices division, is because they hold all these patents and Google has to pay Microsoft crazy sums of money for various patents, and all that money goes toward the Entertainment and Devices division, and it makes it look like that division is profitable, while the truth is, without those patents, they would be bleeding crazy amounts of money from that division.

In other words, Xbox is a money losing proposition for Microsoft, and it "continues" to be a money losing proposition for Microsoft.

I remember when this article first hit (maybe a month or two back), there was lots of discussion back and forth about whether this guy was off his rocker with this suggestion, or whether this was a deep dark Microsoft secret that was discovered when this guy spilled the beans about the patent revenue.


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-07-huge-xbox-losses-hidden-by-patent-royalties-says-analyst

I think that article reads like a bunch of speculative nonsense to be honest.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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