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post #13681 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

It is a known bug issue since the Feb update was released. I would have the issue with watching TV and exiting to Home. Since updating to the beta for March I can tell you this resolved the issue.
Good news! I have this almost daily exiting to home from games.

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post #13682 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

You're not going to see that, because doing so would prevent them from mixing system sounds in when you're playing a Blu-ray. They would have to decode the stream, mix the sounds in, then re-encode it. And since the HD audio is unnecessary for games when you have lossless PCM, that "feature" will never happen. It wouldn't make an audible difference anyway except to make the pretty codec light on your receiver turn on.

But with Blu-rays my understanding is that it's not doing the channels correctly when it does it's conversion. If thats the case, bitstream out the HD audio inside the Blu-ray player app so that my receiver can do it correctly. My PS4 allows me to bitstream out the HD audio.
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post #13683 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 05:31 AM
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Can you add me? (I'm not in the preview)

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Done

Just received my Preview Beta invite message this morning! Won't be home most of the weekend, but I will at least have myself registered.

Just a quick question, how does it work if you have multiple consoles? I have 3 Xbox One's.... Do I get to update them all?

Thanks again

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post #13684 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 05:33 AM
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Just received my Preview Beta invite message this morning! Won't be home most of the weekend, but I will at least have myself registered.

Just a quick question, how does it work if you have multiple consoles? I have 3 Xbox One's.... Do I get to update them all?

Thanks again


I think all you have to do is download the app to each system you want. I would think once you enter the code it would be saved in your history and you can redownload where needed. I could be way off though but I dont see why it wouldnt show up since we redeemed a code for it.

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post #13685 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

You're not going to see that, because doing so would prevent them from mixing system sounds in when you're playing a Blu-ray. They would have to decode the stream, mix the sounds in, then re-encode it. And since the HD audio is unnecessary for games when you have lossless PCM, that "feature" will never happen. It wouldn't make an audible difference anyway except to make the pretty codec light on your receiver turn on.
Come on man, you can't defend the fact that it can't bitstream HD audio yet. That is just unacceptable and they really should fix it ASAP. A $50 bluray player can bitstream HD audio.
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post #13686 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

You're not going to see that, because doing so would prevent them from mixing system sounds in when you're playing a Blu-ray. They would have to decode the stream, mix the sounds in, then re-encode it. And since the HD audio is unnecessary for games when you have lossless PCM, that "feature" will never happen. It wouldn't make an audible difference anyway except to make the pretty codec light on your receiver turn on.

I know the one issue I've found with the XBOne decoding is with the HDMI input. I use my Tivos for the input. So when the XBOne decodes it, it doesn't apply Dial Norm, making the audio louder than it should be from my broadcast sources.

I still need to check to see if the surround audio is still coming out of the wrong speakers for the HDMI input. I'm guessing it is since the audio from the apps are still messed up.

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post #13687 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

But with Blu-rays my understanding is that it's not doing the channels correctly when it does it's conversion. If thats the case, bitstream out the HD audio inside the Blu-ray player app so that my receiver can do it correctly. My PS4 allows me to bitstream out the HD audio.

The audio channels are correct from a Blu-ray Disc(but it still doesn't send 96Khz audio from a 96Khz Blu-ray Disc audio track). It's the surround audio from the apps that are messed up. And I guess the HDMI input is still too, but I haven't specifically checked that yet.

I don't mind the XBOne sending PCM audio and long as it is correct. Since once it's properly decoded the PCM audio should sound just like it does when bitstreamed with a receiver decoding it. But I expect 96Khz audio from a 96 Khz track.(not 48khz audio from a 96khz track.) And I expect the surround audio to come from the proper channels from the apps.

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post #13688 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by lulimet View Post

Come on man, you can't defend the fact that it can't bitstream HD audio yet. That is just unacceptable and they really should fix it ASAP. A $50 bluray player can bitstream HD audio.

I see the reason for not bitstreaming since it needs to mix in it's own audio sounds. And once HD audio is decoded to mix in the sounds, it makes zero sense to re-encode it back to HD audio since the end result should be the same.
The vast majority of BD audio tracks, like 99%, is 48khz audio. Which the XBOne does output.

Right now though, for BD playback, a direct bitstream from the disc would be nice only because the XBOne does not dynamically change the audio output channels to match the number of input channels. So if you play a 5.1 track that is decoded by the XBOne, you need to manually change the output to 5.1pcm. Otherwise the 5.1 audio is sent in a 7.1 pcm wrapper and post processing can't be applied to create a proper 7.1 soundfield.
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post #13689 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 07:42 AM
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I'm pleased that the updates seem to be improving functionality. Obviously things aren't there yet, but getting better. I haven't had the TV black screen of death since the last update and the Blu Ray lip synch and performance issues seem to really have improved.

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post #13690 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 07:49 AM
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Not surprisingly, there will be Halo announcements at E3:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/28/halo-news-will-be-coming-at-e3-343-has-great-plan-in-place

The wording of the tweet ("343 has a great plan in place") tells me that we won't see Halo 5 this year. They'll probably just confirm some sort of reboot for this year, and maybe have a teaser for Halo 5 in 2015. I hope I'm wrong, but that wording seems very carefully chosen.
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post #13691 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lulimet View Post

Come on man, you can't defend the fact that it can't bitstream HD audio yet. That is just unacceptable and they really should fix it ASAP. A $50 bluray player can bitstream HD audio.
A $50 Blu-ray player isn't trying to mix in system sounds from the many other apps it runs. That's the point. You're wanting the Xbox One to behave like a Blu-ray player... which it isn't.

But ultimately, it decodes the bitstream for Blu-rays and sends it via lossless LPCM, so there's no difference in audio quality whatsoever. Getting hung up on whether it bitstreams or not is like making an assertion that there would be an audible difference between decoding it in the console or decoding it in your AVR, which there isn't. Period.
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post #13692 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:20 AM
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I see the reason for not bitstreaming since it needs to mix in it's own audio sounds. And once HD audio is decoded to mix in the sounds, it makes zero sense to re-encode it back to HD audio since the end result should be the same.
The vast majority of BD audio tracks, like 99%, is 48khz audio. Which the XBOne does output.

Right now though, for BD playback, a direct bitstream from the disc would be nice only because the XBOne does not dynamically change the audio output channels to match the number of input channels. So if you play a 5.1 track that is decoded by the XBOne, you need to manually change the output to 5.1pcm. Otherwise the 5.1 audio is sent in a 7.1 pcm wrapper and post processing can't be applied to create a proper 7.1 soundfield.
Yup. That's the only thing you're missing out on. The problem is that there's no valid solution that works in every case. The only way they could work around it is to maybe offer some kind of optional post-processing for 5.1 tracks to 7.1. They certainly have enough processing power to offer DPL-IIx conversion for those tracks. Still, you're talking about such a minority of their market that is running 7.1 that it's probably not a HUGE priority for them.

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post #13693 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

But with Blu-rays my understanding is that it's not doing the channels correctly when it does it's conversion. If thats the case, bitstream out the HD audio inside the Blu-ray player app so that my receiver can do it correctly. My PS4 allows me to bitstream out the HD audio.
If you're using 5.1 LPCM, then it is doing things correctly. The only problem comes when you're using 7.1 LPCM and play a 5.1 audio track, in which case there's no output to the rear surrounds. They have to maintain the 7.1 status because the system itself is still doing its mix to the overall audio.

And yeah, PS4 may let you bitstream the HD audio when you're in their Blu-ray app. But that's because their entire architecture is less multitasking intensive, whereas the Xbox One's entire design was predicated around multiple apps running simultaneously. It's a tradeoff you have to live with to get all of the other advantages of the system. I sincerely doubt you're going to see that change any time soon.

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post #13694 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post


But ultimately, it decodes the bitstream for Blu-rays and sends it via lossless LPCM, so there's no difference in audio quality whatsoever. Getting hung up on whether it bitstreams or not is like making an assertion that there would be an audible difference between decoding it in the console or decoding it in your AVR, which there isn't. Period.
I know all that. It is still unacceptable no matter what you feel or think.
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post #13695 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

You're not going to see that, because doing so would prevent them from mixing system sounds in when you're playing a Blu-ray. They would have to decode the stream, mix the sounds in, then re-encode it. And since the HD audio is unnecessary for games when you have lossless PCM, that "feature" will never happen. It wouldn't make an audible difference anyway except to make the pretty codec light on your receiver turn on.

I don't buy that cause it's an option on the ps4 and ps3.
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post #13696 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:33 AM
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People made a big deal about this with the PS3 as well. I own both a "slim" (supports bitstream) and a "fat" PS3 (doesn't support bitstream), and the only difference between the two is what's displayed on my AVR. I think most of the complaining is done out of ignorance.
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post #13697 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:37 AM
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..........I know all that. It is still unacceptable no matter what you feel or think.
biggrin.gif Why? Because you say it is? There is zero difference between the two, in fact many in the audio areas of AVS would argue LPCM is better. Or is it simply because you want the stupid little light on your AVR to come on?
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.......I don't buy that cause it's an option on the ps4 and ps3.
Just a FWIW - it was not an option on the PS3 for quite some time, in fact I belive it came with the slim (maybe, I can't recall, but it was LPCM for quite some time)
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post #13698 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:41 AM
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Who cares about app sounds don't need them. I would rather have the bitstreaming. What uses more processing power bitstreaming or decoding of the audio? Wouldn't bitstreaming just pass through the audio so the xbone would would free up some processing power.
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post #13699 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 08:58 AM
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Having it displayed on your AVR is the most sure fire way to know you're actually getting the HD audio. That's more important to me than mixing in system sounds. Not to mention, I can't think of any reason why I'd want them mixed in to begin with.
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post #13700 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:00 AM
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Who cares about app sounds don't need them. I would rather have the bitstreaming. What uses more processing power bitstreaming or decoding of the audio? Wouldn't bitstreaming just pass through the audio so the xbone would would free up some processing power.
Then you should buy a standalone Blu-ray player. Because what you're asking them to do is an exercise in software engineering madness, and it's not gonna happen.

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post #13701 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:02 AM
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Having it displayed on your AVR is the most sure fire way to know you're actually getting the HD audio. That's more important to me than mixing in system sounds. Not to mention, I can't think of any reason why I'd want them mixed in to begin with.
And for you, there are standalone Blu-ray players that do just that. That's not me being flippant or dismissive... I still use my Oppo BDP-93 for that very reason. It's nice that the Xbox One has Blu-ray playback, but prioritizing that over all of its other features is kinda' missing the point of the multi-OS system they have designed it around. And all the armchair engineering in the world won't change that.

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post #13702 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:08 AM
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And for you, there are standalone Blu-ray players that do just that. That's not me being flippant or dismissive... I still use my Oppo BDP-93 for that very reason. It's nice that the Xbox One has Blu-ray playback, but prioritizing that over all of its other features is kinda' missing the point of the multi-OS system they have designed it around. And all the armchair engineering in the world won't change that.

I thought the point of the Xbox one was that it was one device that did it all? Not that it needs to be priority #1, but I hope you're not claiming that implementing something this basic is a massive engineering challenge.

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post #13703 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:09 AM
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submitted...
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post #13704 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:12 AM
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I don't buy that cause it's an option on the ps4 and ps3.
As I said before, PS3 and PS4 don't do what the Xbox One does... and aren't designed the same way. Many prefer the PS4 for that reason (i.e. its focus on gaming and single apps getting more of the system power). The Xbox One aspires to more than that, and those design choices create necessary tradeoffs. But asking for something that doesn't have any tangible benefits from an audio standpoint outside of specific cases wherein people are running 7.1 or greater while creating a software engineering clusterf*#k in the process would be a very poor use of Microsoft's time.

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post #13705 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:15 AM
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I thought the point of the Xbox one was that it was one device that did it all? Not that it needs to be priority #1, but I hope you're not claiming that implementing something this basic is a massive engineering challenge.
To YOU, that may seem "basic". But it isn't. The entire system is designed around mixing audio from the various apps that are running simultaneously, as well as mixing in audio from the game OS side of the equation. The only "solution" to what you're positing would be to shut down everything else when running the Blu-ray app, essentially disabling all of the other audio from the system, including notifications. So yes, that is a massive engineering challenge... and worse, one that is completely unnecessary and has no audible difference on 5.1 setups, the special case of 7.1 and greater systems aside (which is niche at best).

I will never understand why people get so hung up on where in the signal chain it gets converted to PCM. I guess they like to see those codec lights.

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post #13706 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

To YOU, that may seem "basic". But it isn't. The entire system is designed around mixing audio from the various apps that are running simultaneously, as well as mixing in audio from the game OS side of the equation. The only "solution" to what you're positing would be to shut down everything else when running the Blu-ray app, essentially disabling all of the other audio from the system, including notifications. So yes, that is a massive engineering challenge... and worse, one that is completely unnecessary and has no audible difference on 5.1 setups, the special case of 7.1 and greater systems aside (which is niche at best).

I will never understand why people get so hung up on where in the signal chain it gets converted to PCM. I guess they like to see those codec lights.

Yes, that's what I'm proposing. They've got to shut down the system every time you switch from PCM to DTS (and soon dolby), so they've already got the capacity to do so. It's not massive at all. Seriously, if something as simple as transferring an unprocessed data stream from a disc over HDMI (just like EVERYONE else) is a massive undertaking, their engineers are incompetent.

The reason people should be concerned is that they've got a history of poorly processing A/V, from the incorrect video levels on the 360 and X1, 24hz sync issues, occasional incorrect TV processing and the terrible oversharpened video scaling. Yes, in theory, HD codecs decoded to PCM should be bit perfect...but MS is like the last company I trust to get that right.

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post #13707 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 09:42 AM
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Yes, that's what I'm proposing. They've got to shut down the system every time you switch from PCM to DTS (and soon dolby), so they've already got the capacity to do so. It's not massive at all. Seriously, if something as simple as transferring an unprocessed data stream from a disc over HDMI (just like EVERYONE else) is a massive undertaking, their engineers are incompetent.
The difference is that they can mix to DTS and Dolby Digital lossy formats in realtime, just as they could mix system audio to Dolby Digital in realtime on the 360, so they're not switching between them - the system stays in that mode full time. Doing so to the lossless codecs for Blu-ray is a totally different endeavor. I'm not saying they couldn't do what you're proposing and make the Blu-ray app lock off the system audio... but why would they? So the less than 1% of people who this affects can see a light shine on their AVR with no audible improvement whatsoever? That's just insane.
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The reason people should be concerned is that they've got a history of poorly processing A/V, from the incorrect video levels on the 360 and X1, 24hz sync issues, occasional incorrect TV processing and the terrible oversharpened video scaling. Yes, in theory, HD codecs decoded to PCM should be bit perfect...but MS is like the last company I trust to get that right.
And if there's an audible problem in their decoding, that's something they can address. Has anyone complained of that yet? No. So basically, you're asking them to bitstream IN CASE the TrueHD and DTS-MA software in the Blu-ray app isn't doing its job correctly. And you don't see why that's a waste of resources and something that shouldn't be prioritized at all?

I still say that you are never going to see that happen. Period. You can wish for it, but there's just no good reason for it.

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post #13708 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 10:03 AM
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I already said it shouldn't be a priority.

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Friend Online Notifications are coming soon! Friend notifications are coming in next update after the March update! Seems like we'll be getting monthly updates!!!!

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February 28, 2014

February 28, 2014

Source: https://twitter.com/notwen/status/439456583328608256
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1z71is/mark_whitten_no_online_friends_notifications_in/
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post #13710 of 17176 Old 02-28-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey151 View Post

biggrin.gif Why? Because you say it is? There is zero difference between the two, in fact many in the audio areas of AVS would argue LPCM is better. Or is it simply because you want the stupid little light on your AVR to come on?
.......

It should be zero difference but just by the fact that when playing a 96khz track the XBOne outputs in 48khz means it is not the same in that instance. Of course this won't affect most people. But I still need to find my 192khz discs to see what the XBOne does with those.

I'm most concerned with incorrect surround channel output since that prevents me from using the apps with 5.1 content since it doesn't sound right.

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