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post #15121 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 04:22 PM
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Moving to a couple of different points to this announcement. It seems to me this really shows that Microsoft refuses to sell the XBox One at a loss. I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing yet, but it does suggest there are holding the line at profitability. I wonder how this bottom line approach will change how they budget development down the line. Or how quickly they look to create a revamped version of the Xbox One to reduce cost further.

The second point that shines through for me is they must be really confident in their games lineup for E3. It is no coincidence they are timing the new release of the SKU to lineup with their E3 presentation.
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post #15122 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 04:24 PM
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Why does everyone think they are "dropping" Kinect. Geesh. Am I missing something? Are they not keeping both bundles?

No way they are "dropping it". Too much invested, too much potential. Too many casual gamers to lose.
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post #15123 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 04:33 PM
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This won't make a dent in the sales gap unless they have a killer software lineup at e3 to go with it.

It's a shame to see ms completely abandon their vision six months into the new console cycle.
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post #15124 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

Why does everyone think they are "dropping" Kinect. Geesh. Am I missing something? Are they not keeping both bundles?

No way they are "dropping it". Too much invested, too much potential. Too many casual gamers to lose.

I think the point is everyone knows that unless kinect is "forced" on people then a lot of people are going to opt for the kinectless version (i know i will and i am not alone), so the thought/argument is that developers aren't going to use kinect. which let's face it kinect brought little to nothing in the most popular games, titanfall, COD, BF, NBA2k... so it is not like you are missing out on some great experience if you play those games without kinect...
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post #15125 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 04:54 PM
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I think the point is everyone knows that unless kinect is "forced" on people then a lot of people are going to opt for the kinectless version (i know i will and i am not alone), so the thought/argument is that developers aren't going to use kinect. which let's face it kinect brought little to nothing in the most popular games, titanfall, COD, BF, NBA2k... so it is not like you are missing out on some great experience if you play those games without kinect...
On the flip side I thought EA integrated it very well with Madden. And , despite what I feel about the lack of sim aspect of it's gameplay it's about as popular as popular gets. Calling out adjustments on the field felt WAY more natural than flipping through menus. You know, pretty much like they do in real life. Now what becomes of this integration for the next Madden? Does it get watered down, stays stagnant, or gets developed and polished further? NBA Live even had some good integration with Kinect although it could have been fleshed out even more.

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post #15126 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 05:07 PM
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I don't understand why they didn't launch with kinect labs 2.0 to showcase the capabilities of the new kinect. That could have generated some positive buzz for the technology.

Perhaps it just wasn't as good as we expected/hoped so there was nothing to showcase.
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post #15127 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 05:14 PM
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On the flip side I thought EA integrated it very well with Madden. And , despite what I feel about the lack of sim aspect of it's gameplay it's about as popular as popular gets. Calling out adjustments on the field felt WAY more natural than flipping through menus. You know, pretty much like they do in real life. Now what becomes of this integration for the next Madden? Does it get watered down, stays stagnant, or gets developed and polished further? NBA Live even had some good integration with Kinect although it could have been fleshed out even more.

 

On some level I feel your pain. I love gaming in 3D. I feel like if people knew how awesome it could be when it's not the ****** watered down experience it was last gen, people would line up to pay the premium for it, even wear the stupid glasses. But my belief apparently isn't shared by enough people to make it worthwhile for devs to support it, so I'm left out in the cold to wonder what that future would have been like. I don't like it one iota, but I don't need to spin myself a tale about how they're making a huge mistake by pulling back on something that clearly isn't resonating with the masses. Taking a step back, they've got the numbers, and they're prob making the right call in the grand scheme of things. It's very similar to kinect in that respect...a lot of tacked on, half assed implementations salted the earth to the point where even people that were initially open to it have completely tuned out. 

 

Maybe they'll take another shot at both kinect and 3D when the wounds have healed and the tech has improved enough that it's worth another go.

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post #15128 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 05:43 PM
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There are those of us who have no interest in "owning" software on discs anymore so those "rights" were useless. The convenience of being able to install from disc and then toss it aside with no necessity to swap them into the drive when we wanted to play a game was very valuable.

Agreed. If there was any system update that I could have right now, this would be it.

Well said, pretty much sums it up. "Rights" that translate into practical inconvenience aren't much of an incentive as compared to disc-less gaming. I was trading disc versions in the minute they became available on the marketplace, w/ ZERO regrets.

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post #15129 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 05:49 PM
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Why does everyone think they are "dropping" Kinect. Geesh. Am I missing something? Are they not keeping both bundles?

No way they are "dropping it". Too much invested, too much potential. Too many casual gamers to lose.

They dropped a long time ago, they just now decided to take it out of the box. It had poor support from the beginning, it is clear they made the call to include Kinect circa 2010 when Kinect was the new Wii. It fell out of favor soon after but they stuck by there vision and it hurt their bottom line. Their sales suck and they know time is against them. Better do it now than risk falling behind even more.

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post #15130 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 06:23 PM
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Well I need to eat some crow because I didn't think they'd do it. It seems the Kinect is, like our avatars, a by-product of the Wii fad and now that we've moved past that the Kinect is struggling to find an identity. I liked the Kinect personally and don't mind that I paid for it but I can see how this is for the betterment of the platform sales-wise. What will be curious to see happen now is how MS responds to it no longer being included. At first glance it appears now we have a lower specced competitor to the PS4 at the same price and while this seems like a losing proposition games will drive the sales. MS really needs to focus on bringing exclusives to the platform. I'd prefer them beef up their first and second party efforts to make up for it because buying exclusivity only works so much. I want to see a return to the original Xbox days where MS game studios actually have a pretty diverse first party lineup. We need a return of games like Crimson Skies, Mech Assault, etc.. With Kinect now relegated to an accessory the console seems more than ever a true update to the original Xbox. I miss those days and hope we see them return.


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post #15131 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 06:51 PM
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I am a bit sad that MS didn't follow through with their vision, but I suppose they lost their way, way back at last years E3.

The things that Xbox One still has the advantage of, over the PS4, is Xbox Live; a better controller; and Titanfall. Hopefully there will be more great X1 exclusives, but even I am starting to have my doubts. I also hope that as they develop it further there becomes some graphical advantages ( Direct X etc).

I'm still waiting for a killer exclusive game to persuade me to buy a PS4.
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post #15132 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 10:56 PM
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Do you guys think Ebay will be flooded with Kinect 2.0 units in the very near future ?


Might be a good time to pick up an extra Kinect 2.0 on the cheap. I kinda want an extra one to have it permanently located in another room for moving the XB1 from room to room. Just one less thing I need to move. Now if only there was a decent 3rd party power brick that didn't have a constantly running fan that sounds like a jet engine. (don't get the ones off Ebay from Hong Kong )
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post #15133 of 17041 Old 05-13-2014, 10:58 PM
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It's been a while since I've posted on this side of the fence but, honestly, this announcement actually has me interested in the Xbox brand again. Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I really believe that Kinect was Mattrick's baby and he just didn't want to let go. Now his pet project is being shown the same door he was shown. Voice commands can be integrated in other ways. I think the WiiU's performance, the fact that Sony hasn't even mentioned Move since before the PS4 launched and this announcement proves that the motion gaming fad is over. I think the new Xbox/MS regime is going to continue to distance the brand from Kinect. Motion gaming accessories are just the newest additions to the long list of failed console accessories. Guess what, VR will be next... again. I'll bet anyone on that.
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post #15134 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 01:37 AM
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...and then after using a flagship HTC phone, you will realize iPhones were designed for pre-teens and people in their golden years smile.gif

Is there a demo for Watch Dogs?

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Totally agree.

iPhones are girlie phones and for old people.

Excellent news about the pay wall being dropped...if true. Honestly, the moron that tried to get away with that should be fired.

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and for people that don't want to have to actively manage their phone, and for people that are invested in an ecosystem/platform.

The latest and greatest is just a phone to you. In a few months or a year you'll have jumped over to some other phone that may or may not run Android and may have to invest into new accessories. When I get a new iphone that's it. (save for the lightning port change 2 years ago), all my accessories work. I continue to use it as I did before. Everything just works, I don't have to invest time.

It's funny because I see the Android craze as for high schoolers that have too much free time and place to much of an emphasis on dynamic wallpapers. In reality your device doesn't really do anything else. You evoke the same stuff in more creative ways, most of which aren't any more efficient. that's cool, I get the novelty of tech, but please don't fool yourself and be so pretentious that you think Apple's platform is for less savy consumers. I am a 33 year old electrical engineer. I understand products, and I am not wooed by gimmicks over utility. I have a career, kids and a mortgage, I just want utility. Apple does that really really well. If you can't see that because you're distracted by tapping your phone against other HTC phones to share images that's more or less on you and not the preferences of other consumers.

I don't get where it's for old people comment came from. Like Scuba Steve I also have a career, I'm 32, Married with a kid and don't understand how iPhones applies to old people. I speak from experience and I've own both Android and iPhones and I always come back to iPhone. It's just overall better quality. Apps look and run better on it and everything is easily integrated. Actually I see more kids with galaxy phones more than iPhones. HTC finally got away from the cheap plastic feel that android phones usually have and I'm pretty sure iphone had some type of influence on that.

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post #15135 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 02:50 AM
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Motion gaming accessories are just the newest additions to the long list of failed console accessories.

I just wish PS3 and Wii had seen more light gun ports while the opportunity was there. This was our chance to see many classics be reborn and compatible with modern television technology like NES Zapper releases on the Virtual Console or a Virtua Cop collection, but sadly only a handful got that treatment leaving many fine releases relegated to earlier consoles or to arcades.

It was a fad, but one I'm glad that happened. Fond memories of Wii Sports, the already mentioned light gun shooters like House of the Dead II/III on the Wii and House of the Dead 4's only home conversion on the PS4, new material like Dead Space Extraction, improved conversions of modern titles like Resident Evil 4 and the Metroid Primes that actually benefited from motion controls, etc. But it will join the likes of paddle controllers and light guns in being excellent for certain purposes but of too limited utility to support now that the novelty value has disappeared.

One reason I think I never cared for Kinect in either iteration. Motion gaming is at its best when it involves a gun and for that, you need something physical in your hands to aim with and buttons of some sort.
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post #15136 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 03:07 AM
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I think the point is everyone knows that unless kinect is "forced" on people then a lot of people are going to opt for the kinectless version (i know i will and i am not alone), so the thought/argument is that developers aren't going to use kinect. which let's face it kinect brought little to nothing in the most popular games, titanfall, COD, BF, NBA2k... so it is not like you are missing out on some great experience if you play those games without kinect...
This is very true. Kinnect hasn't help the make the gaming experience any better.
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On the flip side I thought EA integrated it very well with Madden. And , despite what I feel about the lack of sim aspect of it's gameplay it's about as popular as popular gets. Calling out adjustments on the field felt WAY more natural than flipping through menus. You know, pretty much like they do in real life. Now what becomes of this integration for the next Madden? Does it get watered down, stays stagnant, or gets developed and polished further? NBA Live even had some good integration with Kinect although it could have been fleshed out even more.
In madden this is all voice recognition which can be done with the actual headset by both the ps4 and the XBO. Still don't see the use for kinnect.

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post #15137 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 03:22 AM
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I like the direction MS is going with Xbox to be honest. I have an XBO and felt the kinnect was a gimmick from the beginning. It offered Nothing to games and the voice commands are cool when they work. If they can keep the voice commands without the kinnect camera it would be great. At $399 it's going to move more units, but it's also the same price as its competitor who has a stronger console. I feel like MS should've dropped the price to $349. I feel at that price it was going to sell a ton more and made it even more attractive than a ps4. Ultimately, games is what will sell more consoles, but it shows that kinnect wasn't desired by everyone and they should've offered people choices instead of forcing it on people. I can't wait for direct x12 to come to the Xbox one. When games start having visual parity among the ps4 and XBO no one will talk about resolutions or specs anymore.

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post #15138 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 03:59 AM
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I like the direction MS is going with Xbox to be honest. I have an XBO and felt the kinnect was a gimmick from the beginning. It offered Nothing to games and the voice commands are cool when they work. If they can keep the voice commands without the kinnect camera it would be great. At $399 it's going to move more units, but it's also the same price as its competitor who has a stronger console. I feel like MS should've dropped the price to $349. I feel at that price it was going to sell a ton more and made it even more attractive than a ps4. Ultimately, games is what will sell more consoles, but it shows that kinnect wasn't desired by everyone and they should've offered people choices instead of forcing it on people. I can't wait for direct x12 to come to the Xbox one. When games start having visual parity among the ps4 and XBO no one will talk about resolutions or specs anymore.

Clearly I disagree with your opinion on Kinect, but I do think Microsoft has to get to a lower price with the lesser bundle as quickly as possible. Direct x12 is still a year a way so if they want to make big moves they still have some work to do on the price.
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post #15139 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 04:20 AM
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..along with all the people that said they would never drop DRM/always on....

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Indeed. The purpose of the original DRM was to kill the used game market, period................
Like that would have been a bad thing. If the $2 one gets from GameLoser is a "make or break" then maybe one should ask if there isn't a better place to spent one's $$$.
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And force people to use a headset? Imagine the outcry over people using more than a console/controller to do something.
biggrin.gif Seems like that would fit right into the "directionless" Xbox One. Problem when you try to be everything to every whiny little @sshat is that you end up being nothing to most. The old jack of all trades, master of none.
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But identifying who's giving those commands does require it. That's very useful in the household with multiple people using the console. No automatically logging people in as they walk into the room and no "Xbox, show my stuff", without Kinect.
Yep, works great. Easiest way to have folks join a game. They simply walk in & they're ready to start playing.............but then I actually have folks in the house smile.gif
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The reason is that kinect is an expensive, overly complicated solution to a problem that can be solved in a cheap and simple way.
It's not simply about voice, it performs other functions. Voice can't log you in nor use hand commands. Some of us actually use these things. I don't use voice at all (well rarely) but I do use the hand gestures almost daily. Technology moves forward - the biggest hinderance to change is peoples resistance to change. Can't even begin to imagine what it will be like if they ever try & move past the twin gump stick design biggrin.gif
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This is very true. Kinnect hasn't help the make the gaming experience any better.
In madden this is all voice recognition which can be done with the actual headset by both the ps4 and the XBO. Still don't see the use for kinnect.
Hadn't gotten that far yet, not sure it ever would for games like Madden...........well atleast not in the United States of fat couch lumps anyway. Getting up and doing the movements for a game like Madden ain't going to happen for "triple Big Mac & XXXXXXL Fries w/ a 82oz Coke" gamers.

Too bad they killing it off was their only solution, the delusion you needed the sales lead to be successful - I guess once they had that numbers lead anything less was unacceptable. On the funny side if the $100 difference is the "make or break" then odds are high you shouldn't be wasting $$$ on games or consoles. Oh well, it moves forward................on another front where the hell is the attached storage? biggrin.gif

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
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post #15140 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 05:12 AM
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If Kinect menu navigation is what the next generation meant for you, cheer up, you still have it.

That they've listened to the vast majority of the public and have responded with an option without it is only a good thing. Clearly, there was never going to be a major game that simply wouldn't be possible right down to its core without Kinect. Six months into generation #2 for Kinect with nothing on the horizon that would change that inspires confidence in that line of thought.

So that people can step back into the 20th century and use those pesky buttons and analog sticks on that gamepad already in their hands to power their console on and off and navigate menus and save $100 if they wish is only a victory.
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Like that would have been a bad thing. If the $2 one gets from GameLoser is a "make or break" then maybe one should ask if there isn't a better place to spent one's $$$.

Sadly, some never bothered to put a lick of thought into that issue since the effect such a decision would have hardly starts and ends there.

It's far more than just not being able to freely trade your used games. it would've affected being able to buy games years after they've gone out of print, gamer's trying to enjoy the console after official support had concluded including purchases bought new while the system was commercially active, and an entire host of other issues like one that has affected my Xbox Live account since last year that has yet to be resolved and has kept me from accessing it thanks to their poor security and my email address I signed on with nearly a decade ago being unavailable.

But when it comes to making a point, why bother about such pesky details that show that it wasn't all about just keeping the GameStop model alive and that many folks appreciated the advantages physical media has traditionally offered (And thankfully continues to offer while digital distribution simultaneously offers what people like yourself wanted)? And GameStop I might add isn't the worst thing in the world by any stretch. I've had a ton of fun playing through a long out of print Wii game that I bought used for $2 a few months ago there for instance.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.
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post #15141 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 05:20 AM
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This announcement still isn't pushing me towards an Xbox One they needed to drop the price. Simple as that. Why didn't' they just drop the price and take a hit on the hardware? People are saying that they must have a ton of great things to show off at E3 because they released this before June. Why not drop the price of the current bundle, take the loss and make it back on game sales? I fear this isn't enough to push sales forward

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post #15142 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 05:25 AM
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1, A lot of people have no interest in Kinect and shouldn't have to buy an optional accessory that they don't want to use.

2. A lot depends on how much the system cost to build and how much they're making or losing off it as it is.

3. They're offering a cheaper XB1. They're not raising the Kinect bundle $100 and selling a Kinectless bundle for $499.

4. Sales from the tiny bit of attention I've given it sound like they're somewhat disappointing after the initial launch. Might as well finish the 180 and get the ship righted as early as possible. Hopefully the people that love saying "Xbox on' will remain happy and it will bring in people like myself that weren't pleased by their vision as it was originally presented at E3 last year.

5. Price drops, especially so soon, are largely a thing of the past for Sony and Microsoft. They deal with this stuff via bundles these days such as adding value to justify maintaining an earlier price point or stripping something out and releasing a cheaper bundle as Microsoft has done here.
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post #15143 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bailey151 View Post


Like that would have been a bad thing. If the $2 one gets from GameLoser is a "make or break" then maybe one should ask if there isn't a better place to spent one's $$$.
biggrin.gif Seems like that would fit right into the "directionless" Xbox One. Problem when you try to be everything to every whiny little @sshat is that you end up being nothing to most. The old jack of all trades, master of none.
Yep, works great. Easiest way to have folks join a game. They simply walk in & they're ready to start playing.............but then I actually have folks in the house smile.gif
It's not simply about voice, it performs other functions. Voice can't log you in nor use hand commands. Some of us actually use these things. I don't use voice at all (well rarely) but I do use the hand gestures almost daily. Technology moves forward - the biggest hinderance to change is peoples resistance to change. Can't even begin to imagine what it will be like if they ever try & move past the twin gump stick design biggrin.gif
Hadn't gotten that far yet, not sure it ever would for games like Madden...........well atleast not in the United States of fat couch lumps anyway. Getting up and doing the movements for a game like Madden ain't going to happen for "triple Big Mac & XXXXXXL Fries w/ a 82oz Coke" gamers.

Too bad they killing it off was their only solution, the delusion you needed the sales lead to be successful - I guess once they had that numbers lead anything less was unacceptable. On the funny side if the $100 difference is the "make or break" then odds are high you shouldn't be wasting $$$ on games or consoles. Oh well, it moves forward................on another front where the hell is the attached storage? biggrin.gif

can you please drop all the backhanded insults and condescending tone in all your posts?
1. i am one of those "poor people" that go to "game loser" that apparently needs to reevaluate my spending habits
2. whiny little @sshat.. really?
3. attacking peoples weight... again really??

this is supposed to be a mature forum and since the xb1 kinect drop, the conversation has been great and respectful without these types of posts...
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post #15144 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Poolshark69 View Post

This announcement still isn't pushing me towards an Xbox One they needed to drop the price. Simple as that. Why didn't' they just drop the price and take a hit on the hardware? People are saying that they must have a ton of great things to show off at E3 because they released this before June. Why not drop the price of the current bundle, take the loss and make it back on game sales? I fear this isn't enough to push sales forward

Perhaps their plan was to announce at E3 but then the April numbers came in and they wanted to have a PR response. June 9th is the day of the E3 pressers I believe, seems like they were poised to do "and it's available in stores right now" kind of announcement.

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post #15145 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:02 AM
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After last year's mess, I suspect it more has to do with focusing on the games at E3 instead of leaving it appearing as almost an afterthought. After all, the Xbox One is first and foremost a gaming console. Clearly last year, they spent too much time on aspects like HDMI pass through instead of the actual gaming aspects of it.

One reason why so many are still against Kinect. They've done anything but sell the public on its gaming capabilities. Gamer's love change and are always eager for it as the anticipation after 3 or 4 years every generation or the long lines at launches is evidence of. But change just for the sake of change is never embraced and Microsoft has failed in selling the public on this despite an extended test program on the 360.
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post #15146 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

can you please drop all the backhanded insults and condescending tone in all your posts?
1. i am one of those "poor people" that go to "game loser" that apparently needs to reevaluate my spending habits
2. whiny little @sshat.. really?
3. attacking peoples weight... again really??

this is supposed to be a mature forum and since the xb1 kinect drop, the conversation has been great and respectful without these types of posts...

I don't go to gamestop much, mostly only if an accessory isn't cheaper on Amazon and I'm too immature to wait for shipping.

However, I do use gamefly and MS's original model would have torched that as well. There are too many games released that are not deserving of the $60 asking price. I don't mind and do buy the games that are worth it, but for those that aren't I buy into Gamefly who in turns orders copies of the games. Point is, I guess anyone that doesn't just plop down $60 for anything they are interested in playing is a "game loser", I'll take that over poor financial planning any day.

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post #15147 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

After last year's mess, I suspect it more has to do with focusing on the games at E3 instead of leaving it appearing as almost an afterthought. After all, the Xbox One is first and foremost a gaming console. Clearly last year, they spent too much time on aspects like HDMI pass through instead of the actual gaming aspects of it.

True, but I don't think "gamers" mind much console price-drops or new SKUs. It was the lack of gaming and the focus on snap, espn, tv that turned gamers off. Not the hardware unveil itself.

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post #15148 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:07 AM
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I'm sure this would be welcomed news even at E3. But building anticipation is something they all do in the weeks leading up to E3 and it also gets maximum exposure now for this positive change instead of possibly being lost in the crowd at E3.

And after last year's fiasco, focusing almost exclusively on just the games isn't such a bad way to be approaching E3 if that proves to be the case. And any Kinect debates such as here should be dead and buried by then. The proponents will have raised their support and the opponents will have already lodged their complaints and be on their way to begrudgingly accepting that some XB1 owners don't own an accessory they have no desire to own.

Our attention should hopefully be on the games themselves.
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post #15149 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:23 AM
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Does the IR blaster port on the back of the One have enough segments to blast IR and accept Mic signals? If not already available their might be an addon to allow voice input without camera and still blast IR commands. Wait thinking on it the One has usb's on the back.
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post #15150 of 17041 Old 05-14-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

It's been a while since I've posted on this side of the fence but, honestly, this announcement actually has me interested in the Xbox brand again.

Me too. I want one now, there just aren't any games yet. frown.gif
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