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post #181 of 17057 Old 05-30-2013, 07:09 PM
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Sony seems to think so which is why they demonstrated it again in February and now with a new Eyetoy that looks to imitate Kinect features in combination with the Move and controller.

Motion gaming is a tech that may offer something in the future and offers something to casual gamers and some hard core. I think it will be something that is offered from now on. The difference is that MS is forcing it. Sony does not seem to be but we will see. I am not trying to invalidate your feelings toward motion gaming, it just has a limited audience at this time.
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post #182 of 17057 Old 05-30-2013, 07:16 PM
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the real question is what is the over/under of how many naked pics/video with the x1 be used for?
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post #183 of 17057 Old 05-30-2013, 07:52 PM
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Xbox One interview: Marc Whitten talks about the big picture

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/blogs/screenplay/xbox-one-interview-marc-whitten-talks-about-the-big-picture-20130530-2nckv.html#ixzz2UppXDUhZ

After a whirlwind of a day, packed with on-stage presentations, behind the scenes tours, hardware demos, and interviews, I finally sat down to my final appointment, and interview with the Xbox boss-man himself, Marc Whitten.

Whitten is one of Microsoft's corporate vice presidents, but more importantly he is the chief product officer for the Xbox brand. Within the Microsoft corporate structure, he is the top of the Xbox hierarchy.

I began by asking why the Xbox One is being launched now. What signalled to the Xbox team that the time was right for a new console?

"It's a funny thing, but we think about this every year," he replied. "We ask ourselves where we are with the 360 and what we can do with it, and if we were to choose to go and do something new, would it be worthwhile from a consumer perspective, and long-lived enough to be worth investing in for us."

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"We've been adding more and more to the 360, and as we got Kinect shipped we started to think, okay, now I think we could build a system that would be a true revolution in how you use it. We looked at the power we could get out of next generation silicon, and the experiences we could create that would be far different from what we could do on the 360."

I noted that the Xbox 360 had not seemed to have hit the end of its usefulness yet. Game studios are still squeezing new functionality out of the hardware, surprising us with what they could achieve on such an old console. "You will continue to be surprised, because you're going to see us continuing to invest in 360," Whitten said. "It's a great platform, but even the fact that the Kinect isn't a part of every unit changed how that product worked. You couldn't take the amount of data that our new Kinect puts out into an Xbox 360. It'd be impossible."

"One of the things I'm very proud of is the auto-update system on the Xbox 360. It might sound like a small detail, but the fact that my games and apps are up-to-date all the time is foundational to why the box has been able to last this long," he said. "But the thing is, in 2005, maybe once every couple of months you would see an update. Now these days, what's your experience turning on the Xbox? Oh, there's a system update. Oh, there's an update for the game. Oh, there's an update for that app you want. That's not a modern experience!"

Whitten proceeded to explain his vision for one feature of a truly modern console that allows gamers to use it the way they want to. "When you pull up the guide and tell it to go home, it pops up the dialogue box and asks, are you sure? Yes or no. The reason is asks that is because it's a destructive action. When you hit yes, it flushes everything and reboots the system."

"That puts up such a barrier to the experience, because now it's like, oh, I want to go check something out real quick on Internet Explorer... Ooh. Well, crap. You don't have that fluidity, that simplicity of the system just flowing together, that instant switching, the ability to snap them together. Those are going to create an amazing new experience."

Whitten also explained how he expects the Kinect experience to be transformed on the Xbox One. "Everybody wants Minority Report to happen, they want this magical gesture experience to be really great," he said. "But with the first Kinect on 360, what is that experience like? I hold my hand out, waiting for that little circle to fill, waiting... The reason that's happening is because we don't have all the fidelity of depth-tracking with the current tracking tracking, so we need you to hold it steady for us to decide, okay, they really meant to press that."

He explained that because the Xbox One has on-board processing for the new Kinect, it is far more precise and detailed, and therefore the experience is smoother and quicker. This also applies to voice processing, which allows smarter voice commands.

"The voice-control model on the 360 is a thing called 'you see it, you say it'," Whitten explained. "In other words, when you see some text on the screen, you can say those words to activate the commend, which is cool, but it doesn't get you beyond that screen that you're on."

"With this generation, building better voice and a better cloud experience around that, I'm no longer bound by that. So I could be in the middle of watching a movie on Xbox video, and I can say 'Xbox play Halo'. I didn't have to figure out what some smart person in Redmond thought would be the right place to put it, what the right UI would be, I didn't have to know any of that. I just wanted to say where I wanted to go and have that happen. That's the kind of thing that takes it from 'This is a cool thing' to 'This is how I want to control my experience.'"

Of course, with the original Kinect Australians had to wait for years to get voice commands, owing to the apparent difficulty of teaching it how we speak. I asked Whitten if we would face a similar wait for voice control on the Xbox One.

"The reason that takes a while - and the good news is that most of that work is done, by virtue of Kinect on 360 - you literally have to teach the system how people in Australia make sounds with their vocal chords," he explained. "So it's not like asking if it understands English, it about asking how Australian vocaliser differs from a Texan, for example."

"We also need data from the type of environment it plays in. Most voice input either works very close to the mouth, or push to talk. We need the data because it's a loud living room with lots of people in it, and you have to be always listening out for a word that tells you to get ready to listen for another word. That is a tough problem, so a lot of the work we've been doing over the past few years is building those models, getting that data. Xbox One gets to take advantage of all that work that's already been done, which allows us to go faster."

Does this mean Australians will have full voice control on launch day? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Another worry for users outside the USA is the clever-looking TV interface. The fine print in some of the publicity material said that it may not be available outside the USA immediately at launch, prompting a collective groan from all of the non-Americans. I asked Whitten if we Aussies would be waiting for these features.

"TV is complicated, because we all get it through different means. To me, the challenge is how you can get your TV into the box so that the Xbox One can make it better. There's a lot of ways we'll be doing that. The first one is HDMI pass-through, which is to take the set-top box you have, get its HMDI output, and plugging it directly into your Xbox."

Here lies the problem, of course. The bulk of Australians get free-to-air digital TV through an integrated tuner inside their HDTV. Apart from Foxtel and Austar cable TV customers and those who use digital set top boxes, most of us don't have an external box to plug into the Xbox. I asked Whitten if these users be catered for, and he gave a slightly vague but optimistic response: "More and more are getting those integrated tuners, so I'm going to make sure we can get direct terrestrial TV signal as well."

I also asked Whitten about second-hand and borrowed games, the primary controversy that marred their big day. "My goal is to make sure we have an amazing experience for physical and digital content, a true next-generation experience from an end-user's perspective," he said. "So what does that mean? Well, I can play my games, I can play them anywhere, I can take my game and sell it."

"We're making sure that we do the right things with that content. I want my son to be able to take my game and play it downstairs, to go to his friend's house. That is the experience we're creating, the experience that I think we all want to have." He then added the predictable disclaimer, "...but there'll be more about that later."

One of the defining events for the Xbox 360 was the Red Ring of Death. This prevalent hardware failure was felling launch-period consoles, and it took Microsoft a long time to even admit there was a problem. Eventually, it led to them expanding the warranty, but the whole experience made many users wary of getting a first generation Xbox console in future.

With this in mind, I asked Whitten what he would say to reassure users that the Red Ring of Death would not happen again. "I can tell you that we have an ultimate focus on the quality and reliability of this hardware," he said. "I was here during the Red Ring of Death era, and one of the things I can tell you is that the quality of the team and the capabilities we now have, the robotic testing, and all of that, is how we have become world leaders in this field."

"You guys might not think of the Xbox 360 Slim as a new console release, but it was, and the Slim did not have any reliability problems. So you've seen us go through a couple of hardware cycles, and seen our new capabilities, our learning, our focus on quality and reliability come through. We are absolutely committed to the quality of this product, and this is way too important to us."

The testing labs he spoke of were part of the tour, and they were impressive. Xbox One consoles are being tested in heat and humidity, and game controllers are being tested by robotic rigs to make sure they can stand up to millions of button presses, the equivalent of as much as a decade of use.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/blogs/screenplay/xbox-one-interview-marc-whitten-talks-about-the-big-picture-20130530-2nckv.html#ixzz2UppJxEU9

The 5.0 is here
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post #184 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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The way I currently understand it, games take priority over apps - you can run two apps side by side, but you can't run a game and an app side by side. Apps can stay suspended in the background for fast switching and running services on the CPU (like on Win 8/iOS)...but I cant think of any reason they'd need to utilize the GPU in that state. A game probably has exclusive access to the GPU. Hitting the home button to bring up the blades might temporarily require the game to give up some resources, including the GPU, to run the overlay....but once that's closed, it should release it entirely back to the game.

Can't think of any reason they'd need to put aside two whole CPU cores either, and 3GB is quite a bit more than I'd have expected. Its possible though, depending on how quickly they want to enable switching away from games. If they want to do it really, really quickly, they'd need to reserve a good chunk to keep the apps resident in memory. I suspect that like iOS, many apps will stay resident until a game starts demanding some of their memory, in which case they'll start saving their state to disk and releasing the memory to the game, in the order in which they were last used. Every app should still come right back to where you left it, including games, but depending on their current state of suspension, the time it'll take will vary from almost instant to a few seconds.

The way they intend the console to be used, I dont think they'll set any hard limits beyond what the OS itself requires, maybe 1GB or so. If all you do is ever run apps and never games, the remaining 7GB could be used entirely for you to switch between dozens of apps, lightning quick.

Apparently it [3GB reserved] came from a Gameinformer interview with MS:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/05/21/the-tech-spec-test-xbox-one-vs-playstation-4.aspx
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/05/21/interview-with-xbox-ones-chief-product-officer-marc-whitten.aspx

At work so can't see it, but maybe you can pull it out of there. Still, you can always decrease the footprint, but you can never ask for lost memory back from developers. Still, 3GB seems like an awfully lot.
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post #185 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 09:33 AM
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You seem to be very optimistic in a world where vaporware is the norm and long delays are common. Xbone does not cut any cords, it just runs the cable cord through the Xbone console. I also am not counting on MS to do anything for anyone other than MS.

I am very optimistic about Next Gen. Mostly because of the fast tracking underway with Oculus Rift and game developers associated with it. I am also very optimistic that all of the consoles and HTPC will be able to converge with OR properly. XB1 just seems to be better spec'd to do it right away IMO. I am not cheerleading XB1. I love the product. I dislike some of the restrictions. But I just view the restrictions as something MS is testing the waters on. and will inevitably backtrack on several. IF you think comments over here are negative. Check out their own Forum at XBox.com. That community is outraged about the restrictions.

Personally, I think some/most people will actually like how some of the functions actually work, better, versus the XB360, that they are complaining about. Especially after they try the product. Plus...XB1 was designed with so much versatility and flexibility in it, that MS can flip a switch on a dime and change any restriction in place, that appears to compromise their market position. I see the glass 70% full right now and 30% empty. I suspect that when this puppy actually launches, it will be more like 80/20 or 90/10. Definitely a positive "deal maker" from my pov. I am not a day one purchaser anyway because of reasons stated earlier about my preference for my HTPC and OR. But I have pretty much made up my mind which consoles I will spring for...When I do buy. It's XB1 and WiiU. In fact I will buy at least 1-2 more XB360 Slims...when they go deep discount first. Because I truly plan to hang out with PC gaming more at first. Again...because of OR development. Seems like most of the retro mods for OR will be remakes of current gen classics for PC. So I am a happy camper. Backward compatibility is a complete non issue for me. In fact, I don't even want it. Just let the devs mod their 360 games for OR and I'll play them on Slim or PC.

XB1 does indeed allow one to cut the cable cord. Just like XB 360 before it, Apple TV, Roku and other streamers. It just allows a person to do more from one box.
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post #186 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:05 AM
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Xbone does not allow you to disconnect the cord more than any other device and will not integrate over the air programming which is truly cutting the cord. As far as being infinitely configurable and able to play with other systems, we really do not know. I doubt it will play with anything not licensed by MS. They have a long history of proprietary everything for their consoles. This will limit the capabilities in some way. I also do not see it being as configurable as some hope. it always sounds great in theory but it is hard to pull off and much promise remains unfulfilled. Look at every other console launch for data.

MS is not in this for us, they want to make a buck. I think that will be good and bad as it is in every generation. In the end, we will see.
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post #187 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:07 AM
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MS is not in this for us, they want to make a buck. I think that will be good and bad as it is in every generation. In the end, we will see.
Please don't tell me that you're delusional enough to believe that Sony isn't all about the money too? They may be taking a different approach, but all they care about is the bottom line.

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post #188 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:42 AM
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Sony is probably more worried about the bottom line than MS is. The difference is that Sony went out with lots of promise and even more arrogance with the PS3 and got their hat handed to them. The stance they have today is all about money but it also seems to be more consumer friendly. They are probably somewhat related.

Sony and MS are also very different companies, which leads to different goals for their consoles. MS is trying to push an ecosystem and is competing with Google and Apple. Sony is only competing with consoles.
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post #189 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:44 AM
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Xbone does not allow you to disconnect the cord more than any other device and will not integrate over the air programming which is truly cutting the cord. As far as being infinitely configurable and able to play with other systems, we really do not know. I doubt it will play with anything not licensed by MS. They have a long history of proprietary everything for their consoles. This will limit the capabilities in some way. I also do not see it being as configurable as some hope. it always sounds great in theory but it is hard to pull off and much promise remains unfulfilled. Look at every other console launch for data.

MS is not in this for us, they want to make a buck. I think that will be good and bad as it is in every generation. In the end, we will see.

According to this, quoted from that interview posted above, there might be some hope for OTA after all....at least for Australians:
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Here lies the problem, of course. The bulk of Australians get free-to-air digital TV through an integrated tuner inside their HDTV. Apart from Foxtel and Austar cable TV customers and those who use digital set top boxes, most of us don't have an external box to plug into the Xbox. I asked Whitten if these users be catered for, and he gave a slightly vague but optimistic response: "More and more are getting those integrated tuners, so I'm going to make sure we can get direct terrestrial TV signal as well

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post #190 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:46 AM
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Sony is probably more worried about the bottom line than MS is. The difference is that Sony went out with lots of promise and even more arrogance with the PS3 and got their hat handed to them. The stance they have today is all about money but it also seems to be more consumer friendly. They are probably somewhat related.

Sony and MS are also very different companies, which leads to different goals for their consoles. MS is trying to push an ecosystem and is competing with Google and Apple. Sony is only competing with consoles.
Yeah they are very different in their approaches. Don't take me as a MS fanboy, as I am very intrigued by what Sony looks to be doing with the ps4. My group of friends have already seemed to write them off and be looking at the Xbox one, but I keep telling them that they really need to wait until at least E3 before they make any decisions.

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post #191 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:49 AM
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Problem for me is I believe nothing Sony says. Every one of their console launches had things change from announcement to retail. Not to mention the game videos that never came close to the cgi of their demos.

Right now it seems Microsoft has a good long term plan with the One. I have nothing to go off of from what I know about the PS4. The games will come to both systems, but I want something new and Sony needs to show me more.

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post #192 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:53 AM
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According to this, quoted from that interview posted above, there might be some hope for OTA after all....at least for Australians:

With the USB 3.0 ports they could always develop an OTA or even a QAM add on and have no issues with any bandwidth(although USB 2.0 has enough bandwidth too). If they think there is enough demand for it.

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post #193 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:56 AM
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With the USB 3.0 ports they could always develop an OTA or even a QAM add on and have no issues with any bandwidth(although USB 2.0 has enough bandwidth too). If they think there is enough demand for it.
I would love to do OTA and just use hulu and amazon for other stuff, but I could never get it to work. We live in the middle of a mountain range one hour away from anything resembeling a big city, so I just couldn't ever get any channels.

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post #194 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:56 AM
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With the USB 3.0 ports they could always develop an OTA or even a QAM add on. If they think there is enough demand for it.

Yup. The theory was that they wouldn't want to let people use OTA cause they were in bed with cable, or would rather have people use their streaming services.

But now there's at least some hope of an OTA tuner. "I'm going to make sure we can get direct terrestrial signals as well" is a pretty definitive statement....but still falls short of a promise.

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post #195 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 10:57 AM
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Problem for me is I believe nothing Sony says. Every one of their console launches had things change from announcement to retail. Not to mention the game videos that never came close to the cgi of their demos.

Right now it seems Microsoft has a good long term plan with the One. I have nothing to go off of from what I know about the PS4. The games will come to both systems, but I want something new and Sony needs to show me more.
This is also a big deal for me. Even if after E3 sony comes out looking like a better option, how much of what they say will end up hitting the chopping block for whatever reasons?

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post #196 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:09 AM
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Apparently it [3GB reserved] came from a Gameinformer interview with MS:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/05/21/the-tech-spec-test-xbox-one-vs-playstation-4.aspx
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/05/21/interview-with-xbox-ones-chief-product-officer-marc-whitten.aspx

At work so can't see it, but maybe you can pull it out of there. Still, you can always decrease the footprint, but you can never ask for lost memory back from developers. Still, 3GB seems like an awfully lot.

From the first link, a comparison chart between the Xbox One and PS4:
Quote:
Memory 8GB DDR3 (5 GB available to games)

I do remember hearing a while back that they wanted fast switching more than anything. Instead of waiting for programs to load, you just switch over, instantaneous. That would explain why they want so much. It sounds great... as long as it doesn't hurt the game quality. I can see why they want it for the casual home entertainment market. If you're not a "core" gamer, you won't notice if a game doesn't run as well, you'll just be happy that it was so easy to switch from TV to a game or Netflix or what-have-you. Which is the same concept behind the Kinect always listening. Why bother finding a power button when you can just speak your commands! It's all about making it easier for the consumer to consume.

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post #197 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:26 AM
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How many games today can actually use more than 3.3Gb of RAM exclusively?
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post #198 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:29 AM
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How many games today can actually use more than 3.3Gb of RAM exclusively?

Today? Very few. Next gen? All of them.

The KIllzone PS4 demo already used 4.5GB.

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post #199 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:39 AM
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Today? Very few. Next gen? All of them.

The KIllzone PS4 demo already used 4.5GB.
That's a hefty claim to expect me to just take your word for it. Let's see...

https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/334397605444468736
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/killzone_shadow_fall/news/killzone_shadow_fall_ps4_demo_only_used_4gb_ram.html

Nope, you're wrong, they only used 3Gb exclusively.

In order to use more than 4gb of RAM games would have to be developed in 64 bit. While that may happen, it is unlikely to be the norm given then dominance of 32 bit titles on the PC (where most games use around 2gb of RAM max, exclusively). Perhaps near the latter half of the PS4/XboxOne lifecycles we'll see some games actually need that much RAM but I still doubt it will be the norm.
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post #200 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:46 AM
 
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Pretty sure it was 3.5 because the Dev kits they had were at 4; but they seem estatic when they got news they had double to work with going forward.

Like everything it’s not always going to matter. I’m sure quite a few devs will just use it [large RAM] as a nice buffer to run their sloppy and inefficient presentations ; but it still allows them to be sloppy and cost effective. But for those that use it to get every drop out of the machine, there should be a huge difference.

I’d be more worried about the rumored CPU/GPU usage. Walling off those things (RSX /1 SPE) undoubtedly hurt the PS3 a bit from it’s on sheet specs as far as game rendering was concerned. And in the end many of Sonys promises for why they did that under delivered or were vaporware.
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In order to use more than 4gb of RAM games would have to be developed in 64 bit.

Console hardware architecture has been 64 bit for a while. Don’t confuse a PC’s system RAM and a 32 bit OS with what they’ve been doing for a while now on consoles.

As far as this generation is concerned both consoles will have 64-bit APU’s. Also why most of the smart PC sites are telling their readers to see how these consoles influence PC development going forward.
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post #201 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 11:54 AM
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That's a hefty claim to expect me to just take your word for it. Let's see...

https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/334397605444468736
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/killzone_shadow_fall/news/killzone_shadow_fall_ps4_demo_only_used_4gb_ram.html

Nope, you're wrong, they only used 3Gb exclusively.

In order to use more than 4gb of RAM games would have to be developed in 64 bit. While that may happen, it is unlikely to be the norm given then dominance of 32 bit titles on the PC (where most games use around 2gb of RAM max, exclusively). Perhaps near the latter half of the PS4/XboxOne lifecycles we'll see some games actually need that much RAM but I still doubt it will be the norm.

From the article you linked:
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According to the studio, 3072MB (3GB) of PS4's 8GB were dedicated to video resources powering the demo, with 1,536MB used for system resources. A further 128MB were shared between the two.

Roughly 4.5 GB total. You can click through to their PowerPoint slides if you want to see more confirmation.

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post #202 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:01 PM
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http://kotaku.com/no-tv-talk-at-the-xbox-e3-conference-microsoft-says-510680543

No TV Talk At The Xbox E3 Conference, Microsoft Says
A large chunk of the Xbox One reveal was dedicated to telling us that we don't watch TV the right way, and that Microsoft's new machine will help fix that. But don't worry! E3 will be different.

Microsoft spokesman Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb assured fans today that their E3 press conference on June 10 will be all about games.


On top of that, GTTV host and friend-of-Kotaku Geoff Keighley says he's heard some exciting things about both Sony and Microsoft's E3 plans.


Just ten days until E3. Let the hype begin.

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post #203 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:07 PM
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From the article you linked:
Roughly 4.5 GB total. You can click through to their PowerPoint slides if you want to see more confirmation.
I didn't ask what the system was using, I asked what the game was using exclusively.
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post #204 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:08 PM
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Console hardware architecture has been 64 bit for a while. Don’t confuse a PC’s system RAM and a 32 bit OS with what they’ve been doing for a while now on consoles.
PC hardware architecture has been 64 bit for awhile, too. Don't confuse 64 bit capable hardware with games that actually are coded for 64 bit execution.
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post #205 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:12 PM
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I didn't ask what the system was using, I asked what the game was using exclusively.

Take a look at the slides in the link you posted. The 3GB is just the memory dedicated to the GPU. The other 1.5GB "system memory" is memory for CPU tasks - the sound, physics, etc.

The memory the OS is taking up isn't listed, and isn't part of the number. The game itself is using 4.5GB.

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post #206 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:21 PM
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Take a look at the slides in the link you posted. The 3GB is just the memory dedicated to the GPU. The other 1.5GB "system memory" is memory for CPU tasks - the sound, physics, etc.

The memory the OS is taking up isn't listed, and isn't part of the number. The game itself is using 4.5GB.
I stand corrected, you're right.

Interesting, though, that the developer claimed the didn't know the PS4 had 8Gb since, based on this information, the demo used more than 4Gb of RAM. They must have known all along or at least well enough in advance of the presentation to make changes.
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post #207 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

http://kotaku.com/no-tv-talk-at-the-xbox-e3-conference-microsoft-says-510680543

No TV Talk At The Xbox E3 Conference, Microsoft Says
A large chunk of the Xbox One reveal was dedicated to telling us that we don't watch TV the right way, and that Microsoft's new machine will help fix that. But don't worry! E3 will be different.

Microsoft spokesman Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb assured fans today that their E3 press conference on June 10 will be all about games.


On top of that, GTTV host and friend-of-Kotaku Geoff Keighley says he's heard some exciting things about both Sony and Microsoft's E3 plans.


Just ten days until E3. Let the hype begin.
That is good to hear. A lot of people say that Sony will have to show all their media capabilities at E3, but I don't know if they will. They may just focus on games and then talk about the media stuff at a round table later.

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post #208 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 12:54 PM
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I'm holding my wallet until Microsoft discloses how they are officially handling the used game market. I don't plan on purchasing a game for $70+ then being charged a fee to sell it or having to worry if a game you purchase has been installed previously. If Microsoft wants to do a 1 uses fee I am fine with this as long as the games are priced at a ceiling of $20 .

I don't plan on paying a used game fee. Simple as that. I remember when Nintendo made the decision to stay with Cartridges for their gamecube when everyone else went DVD, it broke them... This may be a like mistake...

Hopefully they smarten up before release...
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post #209 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 01:17 PM
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The N64 stuck with carts, the Gamecube used mini dvds. The carts are why third parties left, lack of storage space and higher costs. Square left because they spent millions on a render farm for CG and Nintendo was unable to find a CD partner (Sony and Philips had them blacklisted after the Play Station and CDi incidents)

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post #210 of 17057 Old 05-31-2013, 01:28 PM
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I stand corrected, you're right.

Interesting, though, that the developer claimed the didn't know the PS4 had 8Gb since, based on this information, the demo used more than 4Gb of RAM. They must have known all along or at least well enough in advance of the presentation to make changes.

It is interesting. Do games in development take up more Ram than when they are fine tuned and finalized?
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