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Forza 5 10 years in the making

33K views 748 replies 84 participants last post by  Smigro 
#1 ·
#52 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/30#post_23436294


You're assuming there's not going to be a traditional clutch version of a racing wheel. Why would you assume that?

Oh, I'm sure that there will be a much more upscale and expensive wheel option from Thrustmaster down the line. The official GT wheel they make is very highly regarded. There are however, thousands of current Forza players who already have a good quality wheel, it's called a Fanatec. And MS is leaving us twisting in the wind right now in regards to whether it'll work on Xbone. MS stands to lose a lot of people next gen if we can't use our current gear with it. No way in hell I'm going to put up with mandatory kinect, internet check ins, drm and investing in a new and probably expensive wheel just to get my Forza fix. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'll bow out. I don't wanna be a buzzkill for the rest of you.
 
#54 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/30#post_23436610


Oh, I'm sure that there will be a much more upscale and expensive wheel option from Thrustmaster down the line. The official GT wheel they make is very highly regarded. There are however, thousands of current Forza players who already have a good quality wheel, it's called a Fanatec. And MS is leaving us twisting in the wind right now in regards to whether it'll work on Xbone. MS stands to lose a lot of people next gen if we can't use our current gear with it. No way in hell I'm going to put up with mandatory kinect, internet check ins, drm and investing in a new and probably expensive wheel just to get my Forza fix. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'll bow out. I don't wanna be a buzzkill for the rest of you.

No I can understand that and I agree with you. I think the goodwill shown towards their customer base would outweigh any potential grab for profits by making such an accessory usable from generation to generation. If Sony can make it happen I'm sure MS can to. That's a chunk of change to invest in a wheel not to be able to use it the next go a round. Not like you're just replacing some cheap controller. I can totally agree with you.
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/30#post_23437905


No I can understand that and I agree with you. I think the goodwill shown towards their customer base would outweigh any potential grab for profits by making such an accessory usable from generation to generation. If Sony can make it happen I'm sure MS can to. That's a chunk of change to invest in a wheel not to be able to use it the next go a round. Not like you're just replacing some cheap controller. I can totally agree with you.

The wheel setup I own costs more than the 360 I use with it. I am not sure that most people understand that.
 
#56 ·

 
#57 ·
That volumetric lighting or extreme HDR or whatever they're calling it looks nice but I can see that as the next lens flair fad. Speaking of, the lens flair shown does look much more realistic now. I have to say though that from what I've seen lighting looks much more realistic now which has always been a complaint of mine in any "sim" game. Less videogamey and more natural. Color depth is impressive as are shadows. I'd like to see an early morning scene with dew on the grass and areas of patchy ground fog on fields with the sun light glistening off it and creating challenging lighting conditions. I have a feeling lighting will play a much bigger part this coming up generation if we're getting stuff this good looking this early on. I'm impressed.
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/30#post_23468622


That volumetric lighting or extreme HDR or whatever they're calling it looks nice but I can see that as the next lens flair fad. Speaking of, the lens flair shown does look much more realistic now. I have to say though that from what I've seen lighting looks much more realistic now which has always been a complaint of mine in any "sim" game. Less videogamey and more natural. Color depth is impressive as are shadows. I'd like to see an early morning scene with dew on the grass and areas of patchy ground fog on fields with the sun light glistening off it and creating challenging lighting conditions. I have a feeling lighting will play a much bigger part this coming up generation if we're getting stuff this good looking this early on. I'm impressed.

Time to put on my Tom Cruise shades from Top Gun when I get this.
 
#59 ·
The Cloud places Forza 5 'on an entirely new plateau beyond anything else'


Dan Greenawalt fights back at accusations the game is missing features.


Forza 5 will be so good that it should be forgiven if it doesn't feature "every feature under the sun", Turn 10 creative director Dan Greenawalt has said.


Quizzed by ifcaracing about the lack of features such as simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption and more, Greenawalt said: "We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content.


"I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it's not just these critical aspects; it's also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don't have every feature under the sun."

Greenawalt also made what appears to be a reference to Polyphony Digital's extended development periods for its Gran Turismo games, stating: "We'd like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version."


And in further defense of Forza and his team at Turn 10, Greenawalt added: "Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that's not what got us here. We can't take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path.


"And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean."


Forza 5 will be released alongside the Xbox One in November.



VideoGamer.com Analysis


It does seem harsh to criticise the Forza franchise for not including certain simulation features when the game has never attempted to be the ultimate simulation experience.


Videogamer
 
#60 ·
He has a point. It's never been the ultimate simulation experience and has never tried to quantify itself as that. He does come off as a bit defensive although I guess I would be too if I was being critiqued by people for lack of features that the series has never really taken seriously. Most likely these people won't purchase the game anyway so it's fruitless to try to appease everyone. Focus on what got you here (great physics, cutting edge graphics and gameplay) and turn out a fun product because in the end that's all that matters. If I wanted to make myself miserable by stressing over how realistic the game was and how extensive my setup is I'd stick to the any number of more realistic pc games out there. All I want though is for stuff like weather and day/night simulation to be included or if not be an option via the "cloud" in real time if I'm connected or via DLC.
 
#61 ·
I don't see how something like the addition of rain is suddenly going to turn it into a full fledged simulation instead of the balanced arcade/simulation approach that these style of games utilize ("Simcades") in order to appeal to the broadest audience possible and provide something that pleases everyone.


These games need things to keep them fresh. Roster additions, pretty graphics, and physics improvements are nice but they're not everything. Something like LeMans with Forza's wonderful simcade physics but with changable weather, the day/night cycle, multiple classes on-track, tires that wear (How's that crossing this invisible line that would break the spirit of the game but damage affecting the drivability of the vehicle isn't?), pit stops, a decent size field of cars, and some basic semblance of real life rules that are within reason so they appease those that lean towards the simulation side yet aren't so cumbersome as to turn off those that lean towards the arcade side of things are hardly things I see as contrary to their approach like he's trying to portray.


How would something like having the traditional Indianapolis 500 three wide start in the IndyCar they're including when racing the oval at Indy suddenly defeat the entire direction they're trying to go after? It needs freshness and the only thing I'm seeing so far that isn't just a polishing of more of the same is the possibility of head tracking with the Kinect sensor that finally works right in a console racer. I believe Forza 4 tried this with Kinect 1.0 but it didn't really work well and I believe GT5 had a failed and very limited implementation of headtracking as well (I own neither accessory so I can't attest to anything personally).


Forza 4 is a fine game and Forza 5 looks to be more of the same. But there's a certain blandness with these console simcades that I think could be addressed by doing more than just a paint by numbers approach with the development cycle of each. Give us something that isn't merely more of the same with a bit of polish.


I think something like rain would please everybody and would hardly turn it into a full fledged PC level simulation like iRacing instead of a console simcade that everyone can enjoy no matter their taste or their type of controller.
 
#62 ·
Forza 5′s Xbox One tech explained by Turn 10



Forza 5 will be the sexiest racer ever. Dan Greenawalt explains to VG247′s Sam Clay where all of the tech wizardry comes from, and how Xbox One’s clout makes the racer gleam.

 
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#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/60#post_23478358


lots of great detail in the video.

I see why they are getting flak for their missing sim elements. He clearly talks FM5 up as being a great sim game so they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. I personally like the simcade status and Forza has been doing it well for awhile now. I do not want to worry about tire wear and gas, could care less about autovista but I do want great physics and would like to see damage impact the car more. I think FM4 treaded all the lines quite well and realize that I cannot have it all.
 
#69 ·
saw a nice preview here. I'm not sure about having imperfections showing in Forza Vista. I just love looking at the cars in the pristine state of AutoVista. I do like the idea of music matching the moment. Games that had that feature were pretty cool. I'm glad that Top Gear is still involved.

http://www.gameplanet.com.au/xbox-one/previews/g51b9f2ced1808/E3-Forza-Motorsport-5-preview/


While Gran Turismo slumbered, Forza Motorsport emerged as a worthy contender in a genre once considered to be well wrapped up by Sony's established racing property. When Gran Turismo 5 finally released in 2010 for PlayStation 3, many racing fans had already traded allegiances. And with the announcement of Forza Motorsport 5, Turn 10's racer beats Gran Turismo to the punch as the first of the rival franchises to feature on next-gen hardware. The time just might be ripe for Forza to cement a pole position.


Bill Giese, design director of Forza 5, talked us through the many changes and improvements to the series' popular formula that the Xbox One architecture affords. The first major improvement brought to our attention pertains to Autovista: the mode introduced in Forza Motorsport 4 that enabled players to examine their vehicles in exceptional detail. Where Forza 4's Autovista featured only 24 vehicles, every single one of the "hundreds" of cars on offer (Turn 10 isn't talking exact numbers just yet) will feature in Forza 5's version, now simply named "Forza Vista."


While Forza 4's cars were indeed striking when viewed in Autovista, Giese and his teammates acknowledged that "there was something that still wasn't quite right, kind of in an uncanny-valley way." So Turn 10 re-examined the way it approached lighting and real-world materials and learned something crucial: their existing approach was too good for its own good, and it's the imperfections that make an object believable in a high-definition environment.


"When you walk up close to a car, you can see those little, tiny imperfections. Where the Armor All is buffed on, you can see the marks," explains Giese. This revelation caused Turn 10 to build the assets of Forza 5 with three different layers: base coat, metal flake and clear coat. "We apply these materials to every single aspect of the game," says Giese, which results in the most realistic visuals the series has ever seen.


Another important new aspect of Forza 5 is how it leverages the cloud connectivity that's become something of a sore point for many gamers regarding the Xbox One. For a more basic example of this cloud-powered Forza, your purchasing decisions (using in-game credit) and the liveries you choose to install are stored online; Forza 5 will continue to intelligently suggest new cars and liveries to players based on these preferences. For instance, Giese mentioned that he liked The Simpsons, and so if he purchased a Simpsons-based livery, the system would notify when new ones became available for his chosen cars from the community. "We have a robust community of amazing painters," says Giese, who contends that the new cloud features of Forza means players are "more easily able to enjoy that content." Players who design and create popular liveries are reportedly rewarded with bonus credits.


But the major use of cloud connectivity for Forza 5 is certainly the new implementation of the Drivatar system established in the very first Forza; AI that's designed to replicate a player's driving style, warts and all. "We gave players tools so they could train the Drivatar manually," begins Giese before admitting that it wasn't the most effective means of producing the desired effect. "How do you truly recreate how somebody drives?" The answer, he contends, is by enabling Forza 5 to constantly send a player's every tendency to the cloud; whether they tend to understeer or oversteer, whether they tend to brake early or brake late before a bend. Forza 5 recognises enough elements of driver behavior to keep an ongoing, up-to-date model of the way a player drives stored in the cloud.


"At the end of the day, when you put your controller down, that's when your Drivatar is going to go to work," says Giese. Without the need for the player to be online, their Drivatar will appear in the games their friends play, complete with their name, stats and driver behavior. A player's Drivatar will even earn credits for them while it races on their behalf. Giese informs me that there are no negative consequences of this feature for the player; the races a Drivatar participates in will not affect the player's career or stats in any way.


Turn 10 has employed the talents of Lucasfilm and Skywalker Sound to create an orchestral score for Forza 5 that adapts to the nature of a race. When players overtake other racers, take the lead or approach the finish line, "the score is going to ebb and flow based on that," says Giese. It's also understood that Forza's partnership with Top Gear continues in Forza 5. Jeremy Clarkson will this time be joined by his co-hosts in providing some degree of commentary, although Turn 10 is saying no more at this point.


The studio will also not confirm the final number of tracks to feature in Forza 5 at launch right now (although we know it's in the hundreds), but a Prague-based raceway was demonstrated for this session. "It's really important for us in Forza Motorsport 5 to build living, breathing worlds. Prague was a good canvas for that. It's an old-world city and there's texture we can see in the buildings." Giese also pointed out how the improved light modelling sees sunlight stream through the windscreen and reflects off the carbon-fibre dashboard in an extremely realistic fashion.


Forza 5 will run at 60fps at full 1080p, support head-tracking via Kinect and also allow players to summon the main game hub at any time with voice commands. It will utilise SmartGlass for leaderboards and achievements, and Giese suggested that more will be revealed about its SmartGlass in due course.


Giese also advised that Forza 5 will utilise dedicated servers for its multiplayer component, which is a first for the series. Turn 10 will make an announcement later in the summer about a partnership with Calspan, leading pioneers in tire testing. Specifically, Giese hinted that the partnership means big things for Forza 5's physics engine.


As a truly next-gen incarnation of arguably the top racing franchise on the market today, Forza 5 appears to be one of the best cards in Microsoft's hand right now. Even more than this, it might be the most convincing ambassador yet for the company's vision of a connected gaming future.
 
#71 ·
Thanks for the videos. I can't wait for this game. This is my primary reason for pre-ordering the xbox one.
 
#72 ·
While it stinks that existing wheels won't be compatible and I wish there was something to look forward to beyond prettier graphics, some physics improvements, and new additions to the car and track roster, it's certainly the Xbox One game I'm looking forward to the most right now.


Useful head-tracking seems to be about it though where innovations are concerned (Unless someone buys into the cloud AI stuff they're talking about... I fully expect that to fall flat and reflect little difference than what we've already had). The rest is just polishing what we already had. While Forza 4 is a great base to work with and a polished next gen Forza with no innovations would still be excellent, I really wish they'd take a big step forward with every iteration to expand their horizons past what they've already done.
 
#73 ·
New Forza article up. They discuss griefing, and here is the bit I found interesting.
Quote:
"So the difficulty options, for example, are going to put you into a profile of the types of Drivatars we're going to pull from," Mathis continued. "Because let's face it, not everybody has this huge, vast number of friends especially at the launch of a console."


Depending on the difficulty options you select, you'll be matched with faster or cleaner Drivatars. The game may modify how the Drivatars of people who aren't your Xbox Live friends behave, making them less likely to employ dirty tactics. "Being in a race, you want to have a variety of players equal to you in speed, but they've got their kiddy gloves on because they're strangers to you," Mathis explained. "They're still fast but they're not going to be quite as brutal."
http://www.oxm.co.uk/58256/features/new-forza-5-drivatar-details-how-turn-10-handles-xbox-live-griefers/
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames  /t/1475989/forza-5-10-years-in-the-making/60#post_23521809


While it stinks that existing wheels won't be compatible and I wish there was something to look forward to beyond prettier graphics, some physics improvements, and new additions to the car and track roster, it's certainly the Xbox One game I'm looking forward to the most right now.


Useful head-tracking seems to be about it though where innovations are concerned (Unless someone buys into the cloud AI stuff they're talking about... I fully expect that to fall flat and reflect little difference than what we've already had). The rest is just polishing what we already had. While Forza 4 is a great base to work with and a polished next gen Forza with no innovations would still be excellent, I really wish they'd take a big step forward with every iteration to expand their horizons past what they've already done.

So what kind of improvements would you want? Just curious. For a game like Horizon I can see the Kinect making GPS even better but for vanilla Forza I'm curious what can be improved outside of head tracking. It seems there's not a lot to innovate on with a game like this once you get most features people expect in a racing game. It's why we get prettier graphics, better sound, more realistic physics, etc.. I'm ok with that to be honest.
 
#75 ·
I know how crucial it is for Forza to be a simcade. It needs to appeal to as wide of a crowd as possible so it needs to take the middle path so there's something for everyone. So I know that a true simulation is out of the question. Even if that's what their audience wanted, you'd never be able to control something like a 1,000HP LeMans prototype with a gamepad so accommodating the standard control method that 90%+ of their audience will be using would still necessitate taking the middle ground with the physics to keep it controllable for those fans.


With that out of the way, I'd love to see dynamic weather and lighting. Parts of tracks being in the shade with perhaps the next lap being sunny. Rain that comes and goes. Things like a dry line forming in the endurance races when it has been raining and and the track starts to dry when it stops with lap times steadily decreasing. Races taking place after dark. Endurance races going from sun to night conditions with evolving weather. And so on and so on. Forza needs more things to give it life like the trackside crowd and lighting enhancements that Forza 5 appears to be getting.


And I'd love to see a drastic increase in field sizes. There just isn't nearly enough vehicles on track to even give a real feeling of racing on the shorter tracks. And the feeling on some of the larger locations like the Nurburgring and Le Mans is just bizarre and gives a feeling of isolation and anything but actually racing which is the exact opposite of how it should be.


And I'd like to see some other details present. Multi-class racing in sportscar type stuff so when you're in a prototype for instance, there are several other classes also in competition on the track. Or if you're in their new IndyCar at Indianapolis, the starts should be 3 wide. Things like pit stops, wearing tires, and pit options like just refueling and not changing tires during the usually boring endurance events to give a semblance of real-life and actual strategy that's within reason that will appeal to those that appreciate such things while at the same time not dragging it down for the people that want something that's accessible.


I don't think that something like driving through debris and then having a tire go down a couple of turns later would hurt the game for anyone and would just enhance the experience. And if such a thought of bringing a component like that from real-life to spice up the experience is a turn-off to some, a option to disable it would easily accommodate those just like there already is with the damage modeling. Plus with the Codemasters style rewind feature, those that don't want a race possibly ruined on say the last lap with it on could still rewind.


Forza is just too sterile and needs to embrace more of real-life while keeping in mind that simcade hybrid model that has served them and their rival over on their competition so well since the beginning. Realism but not so much of it that the accessibility flies out of the window leaving you with a small niche of an audience.
 
#76 ·
Fair enough those are good suggestions. Maybe we'll get them all by Forza 10.
 
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