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post #91 of 749 Old 07-17-2013, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

Hopefully that will be the case since unlike those saying it doesn't really matter in the slightest that are minimizing what other people do care about, I want to be able to enjoy the vast majority of this console's single player experiences that are available on retail disc past the point when Microsoft is finished with it and turns their servers off. I'd be disappointed in anything that didn't provide the ability to insert a disc into any console at any time and still be able to enjoy the vast majority of the single player content for that release.

For some reason, just because they're going to move on immediately when this new console is replaced someday, they all think that there's nobody else that will want to still be able to enjoy this console past that point.

Why would they shut things off as soon as there is a replacement? The XBOne is a replacement for the 360, but they will still be selling the 360. I would expect overlap for whatever comes after the XBOne as well. Although I would hope the PS4 and the XBOne are the last disc based systems. I hope we aren't using discs for games anymore by the time 2020 arrives.

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post #92 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Why would they shut things off as soon as there is a replacement? .

I suppose I wasn't quite clear enough. I wasn't saying that Microsoft would. I was referencing the indifferent attitude some displayed in here just because they're always going to move on to the latest and greatest and never look back. So they think they speak for everyone else and can safely say that such things don't really matter. That's the "they" I was referencing.
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For some reason, just because they're going to move on immediately when this new console is replaced someday, they all think that there's nobody else that will want to still be able to enjoy this console past that point.
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post #93 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I suppose I wasn't quite clear enough. I wasn't saying that Microsoft would. I was referencing the indifferent attitude some displayed in here just because they're always going to move on to the latest and greatest and never look back. So they think they speak for everyone else and can safely say that such things don't really matter. That's the "they" I was referencing.

No doubt it's a concern to some people and I wouldn't ever disregard their opinion as unimportant. There are potential safeguards here for those affected should they decide to buy an original launch version of the game 10 years from now. Because this is all so new though of course there's going to be questions and concerns and you hope MS addresses them in a somewhat timely manner. I'm thinking for the launch edition of the game this will be a potential issue but you'd think later pressings will have all the relevant content required to make the game work. Guess we'll find out sooner or later.
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post #94 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 10:09 AM
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Good thing I'm going all digital from now on. Not that it's really that big a deal (people will make mountains out of any mole hill) but it drives home the point that really, just go digital already. I know people like reselling their old games but man the convenience of going digital to me outweigh any potential benefit to staying with a disc.

Good thing the world is diverse and not everyone values the same things...
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post #95 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 10:16 AM
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Well... they didn't want to, remember? They were moving for discs to just be content delivery methods to bypass your bandwidth/download time. (And I was fine with that, honestly.)
While Microsoft's reversal on DRM made most happy, I think the reality is going to be that a lot of games are going to be internet dependent, even if they have elements that are seen as single-player only. We already see the release date patch as the norm for games this generation, and as games leverage server-side processing and online more, there are going to be less and less games that are truly standalone experiences for offline. I know people might bemoan that, but ultimately, that has been the evolution we've seen for a while now. And we're going to see even more of it as we move to persistent worlds, subscription-based update models, and ongoing content delivery like we're seeing here with Forza 5. Forza has always been big on the online community, though it has been handled in a legacy way where you can download car packs, liveries, etc. manually as you like. But moving it toward an internet required model lets them deliver that content in the background on a regular basis, lets them heavily leverage the user-created liveries, and provide meaningful improvements to the game's core systems (like AI, physics, etc.) over time as they get more data from players.

Times are changing. We're going to see games evolve beyond the notion of "the data on the disc", which is something Microsoft was trying to push and poorly communicated. I'm all for this change. Totally excited to buy Forza 5 digital on day one.

There is a difference between capability and execution. All of these meaningful changes require time and effort which costs money and needs to be profitable. How are they going to monetize these improvements to the point where it is more profitable than launching the next version of the series? Given that games update all the time on my 360, why can't they do this now with current games? If they can, why haven't they? I would love to see them do something as simple as DLC for additional tracks but we really only get more cars. If they are not too motivated to provide new tracks, I do not see other core changes being made. They seem to gravitate toward the easy stuff for DLC and the harder changes get into the next game in the series. I do not see this changing anytime soon.
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post #96 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Why would they shut things off as soon as there is a replacement? The XBOne is a replacement for the 360, but they will still be selling the 360. I would expect overlap for whatever comes after the XBOne as well. Although I would hope the PS4 and the XBOne are the last disc based systems. I hope we aren't using discs for games anymore by the time 2020 arrives.

Cost. It costs money to maintain servers and when those costs do not have offsetting revenues, they get targeted for elimination. Supporting a specific games is very different than supporting a console.
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post #97 of 749 Old 07-18-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

Good thing the world is diverse and not everyone values the same things...

Well yeah that's kinda why I put the 'to me' part in there.
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post #98 of 749 Old 07-22-2013, 06:03 PM
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looks like they're now including some default drivatars:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/22/4544578/forza-motorsport-5-will-play-out-of-box

Forza Motorsport 5 will play out of box

Xbox One launch title Forza Motorsport 5 will not require a one-off connection to Xbox Live in order to play it, Turn 10 Studios head Dan Greenawalt clarified with IGN, but the game will require a connection at some point in order to finish the career mode.

""In the beginning of the game, the player will be racing against Drivatars that are contained on the disc and were trained by the [Turn 10 development] team," Greenawalt told IGN. "While playing, the player will be asked to connect to Live in order to download a completely fresh set of player-created Drivatar opponents - it's not a lot of data, but the download contains enough Drivatars to cover all difficulty settings. Connecting will also download new content - but the vast majority of the launch content is contained on the disc.

"This download is simply additional cars and tracks. The gameplay is not blocked while downloading the additional content; it's done in the background just like disc install."
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post #99 of 749 Old 07-22-2013, 09:04 PM
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You can tell they're having to change some plans with games now that the persistent connection has been eliminated. Sucks but hey squeaky wheels got the grease apparently (pardon the pun).
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post #100 of 749 Old 07-22-2013, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

You can tell they're having to change some plans with games now that the persistent connection has been eliminated. Sucks but hey squeaky wheels got the grease apparently (pardon the pun).

Like finishing them before they ship?

wink.gif
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post #101 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 04:50 AM
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The weird thing is the vast majority of people will be connected to the Internet? I don't know why anyone would buy something like the XBOne and not connect it online, at the very least, when you first fire it up or first install a
game.
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post #102 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 07:31 AM
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Like finishing them before they ship?

wink.gif

Not necessarily. More along the lines of they were probably pretty far in development and once the drm situation reversed they had to adjust hence why we're getting what we're getting. I bet a few launch games are in similar situations. It's not really that they weren't finished but rather the always on nature probably had them in a different development mode. You could call it incomplete if they're requiring a connection to download stuff to complete the single player and I wouldn't really disagree. I'm actually glad the always on thing isn't required if it means they have to ship a ready to play game on launch instead of what we're getting.
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post #103 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if this was posted before.

Turn10 Studio’s, Forza 5, has quickly become one of the most anticipated racing titles on the Xbox One. Recently the guy’s at Xbox released an interview from this year’s E3 with the games Creative Director, Dan Greenwalt.

Greenwalt talks us through some of the title’s immense detail, not only in the texture and lines of the vehicles, but in the environment’s around the tracks and the unique weather system they have in place. He then goes on to talk about one of the game’s most mind-boggling features, cloud tracking of every movement you do and don’t make. This allows the game to adapt around your profile, creating competitive races for when you are there, and competitive AI for when you’re not.

The 5.0 is here
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post #104 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 08:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Not necessarily. More along the lines of they were probably pretty far in development and once the drm situation reversed they had to adjust hence why we're getting what we're getting. I bet a few launch games are in similar situations. It's not really that they weren't finished but rather the always on nature probably had them in a different development mode. You could call it incomplete if they're requiring a connection to download stuff to complete the single player and I wouldn't really disagree. I'm actually glad the always on thing isn't required if it means they have to ship a ready to play game on launch instead of what we're getting.

I personal I think every step of the way MS was caught off guard and was planning for a later release, possibly even next year.

Either way, it's one thing we should probably get used to next generation with HDD inclusion on all systems. It's also why I'm a little iffy about MSONY changing their certification process for patches / games ect. Sure, it'll allow F2P/MMO games the update schedules they demand, and make life easier on developers who need to push out updates, but it also takes away the incentive to get it right the first time, and to make sure the game is released playable.

Then again, it's not really like that's been an incentive for everyone, anyways. Fez comes to mind. Twisted Metal released semi-broken, and 4-5 patches later it's still rough around the edges as all support was pretty much dropped. Quite a bit of the industry is still in the PS2/XBox era mindset of raising their animal then releasing it into the wild and not looking back (besides a few DLC drops). With the huge investments in technology and IP creation, you'd think they'd wise up and support games with new content and community support over a longer haul to keep them fresh and valuable in customers minds.
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post #105 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 08:47 AM
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I agree. What's funny is that before E3 I had assumed MS was ahead of Sony on schedule as we didn't really hear much on Orbis and everyone seemed focused on Durango information. As for games released now I agree as well. Publishers and developers need to get in the mode of offering post release support. It's getting better and you hope they don't get too lazy and release unpatched crap and have to fix it later but it's nice to see a developer support a game long after release. Gamers might be ADD in general but those of us who enjoy a game long after release appreciate support shown to keep interest there.
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post #106 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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pcweber111 had it right in the first place. in a digital world where you can easily get downloads and updates, the original Forza Motorsport 5 model was fine. an all-digital scenario makes it all seem seamless and behind the scenes. you don't perceive that it's "incomplete" because you have the game installed and anything new is downloaded silently in the background. It's because they're switching back to the disc DRM that's causing the issue and forcing Turn10 to shift.

We get constant updates daily on all the digital platforms whether it's my iPad, my Android, or Windows machines. I can't remember the last time I went a couple of days without something updating. Not always just bug fixes, but functionality improvements. I think iHeartRadio updated yesterday on my Android tablet. It's one of the benefits of digital. You aren't stuck to the moment of time that the code went gold and was pressed to disc and then having to update it afterwards.

at the end of it all, now the disc version of FM5 is like what we're traditionally used to: you get a set of preconceived AI behaviors. At least going forward, those AI behaviors can be updated and expanded as more gamers play the game and new behaviors are recorded.
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post #107 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 12:22 PM
 
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Sure, but default AI Drivatars can be included on the disc and done so with a very minor change in plans, as they're doing. Thats not the issue here.

From what we've read it sounds like quite a bit of intended assets are simply not ready to go (Tracks, Cars, ect) and will be provided through download on launch date (giving them typically 2 months more dev time) and possibly even later. Thats not a feature, but a bug, Sure, they might have written it off as not a big deal since originally the system was always online, but that still means they were planning on shipping a incomplete "bit disc" out to customers who would "deal with it". Cutting it so close to a deadline is never good, in any project or industry. And can you imagine the outrage if they miss it, or something fails certification?

Terrible precedent IMO. How long before we get 1/2 a game just so a publisher can get it out the door and then decide if it warrants the rest of it's budget? Whats the next step after that? Selling the first half and charging for the second / continued support?
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post #108 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 01:49 PM
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it's not a feature. but neither is it a bug.

this is a bug: string myString = string("{0}!", "Hello");
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post #109 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 01:52 PM
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For episodic games that model works well but I'll agree, with a retail disc model and no need for constant connection the idea of shipping an incomplete game and updating once it's released is bad business. It'd have been interesting to see what the game we get at launch have been like had the drm situation not reversed. As it is I hope they aren't rushing to get the product complete. Sucks as it's a signature franchise and being a launch game means the scrutiny will be more intense but hey thems the brakes, get er done. smile.gif
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post #110 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 02:39 PM
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But it's still a launch game. Launch games typically suck when compared to games that come out several years later in a consoles life.
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post #111 of 749 Old 07-23-2013, 03:05 PM
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Yeah I know, still though it's Forza. It's their GT killer. It, along with Halo, are probably the two signature franchises on the platform. Maybe they should have chosen to open up the platform with a new PGR instead. Save the negativity around this for a secondary franchise not your bread and butter.
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post #112 of 749 Old 08-01-2013, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Sure, but default AI Drivatars can be included on the disc and done so with a very minor change in plans, as they're doing. Thats not the issue here.

From what we've read it sounds like quite a bit of intended assets are simply not ready to go (Tracks, Cars, ect) and will be provided through download on launch date (giving them typically 2 months more dev time) and possibly even later. Thats not a feature, but a bug, Sure, they might have written it off as not a big deal since originally the system was always online, but that still means they were planning on shipping a incomplete "bit disc" out to customers who would "deal with it". Cutting it so close to a deadline is never good, in any project or industry. And can you imagine the outrage if they miss it, or something fails certification?

Terrible precedent IMO. How long before we get 1/2 a game just so a publisher can get it out the door and then decide if it warrants the rest of it's budget? Whats the next step after that? Selling the first half and charging for the second / continued support?


I believe we already have seen this with a few games.

GO BLUE
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post #113 of 749 Old 08-01-2013, 06:06 AM
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OXM has a new article up about the AI improvements in Forza.
Quote:
When you've got a learning neural network, more computing power is nothing but helpful. Because what you're able to do is process a lot more information, and you don't have to do it in realtime on the box. And that frees up more of the box to be doing graphics or audio or other computational areas.

"So we can now make our AI instead of just being 20%, 10% of the box's capability, we can make it 600% of the box's capability," he went on. "Put it in the cloud and free up that 10% or 20% to make the graphics better - on a box that's already more powerful than we worked on before."


http://www.oxm.co.uk/59493/forza-5-is-the-hardest-thing-turn-10-has-ever-done-xbox-one-cloud-offers-600-more-ai-capability/

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post #114 of 749 Old 08-01-2013, 08:03 AM
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OK I need to see more cars now and less replays. As long as my two favorite cars are in the game (Hennessey Venom GT and SSC Ultimate Aero) I'm good.
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post #115 of 749 Old 08-08-2013, 07:00 PM
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seeing that the McLaren P1 will be the halo car of Forza Motorsport 5, this seems appropriate...


and some old photos from the E3 2013 Media Briefing:

















wonder if there's still only 2 prototypes in the world...
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post #116 of 749 Old 08-09-2013, 06:46 AM
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Is that track from the first video in the Forza game? It looks familiar.

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post #117 of 749 Old 08-10-2013, 04:50 AM
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There's a menu shot that has been seen recently showing some race events. One of them has a background showing Spa's famous Eau Rouge complex. So it appears likely that Spa will finally be included in a Forza game to the delight of the many fans that have called for its inclusion since the first game.
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Is that track from the first video in the Forza game? It looks familiar.
Since the first two videos on this page appear to be in-game footage of Forza 5 and I doubt that you're asking about something from page 1, I'm assuming that you're asking about the most recent video?

That's a hill climb course that McLaren's Formula One driver Jenson Button is making a lap on with one of McLaren's supercars. It's called Goodwood and is a twisty point to point circuit in England used during their annual festival showcasing the history of motorsports. Has never been in Forza and I've seen nothing about it being in this latest iteration.

There's also a historic racing circuit next to it that is largely unchanged from the 1960's when professional racing deemed it too dangerous and the owners didn't want to chicane it to death so closed it down. It has been revived in recent years to showcase motorsports history with races with historic vehicles during the festival. That's even more interesting in my opinion since this situation is unique I believe to Goodwood. Anything else extant from that era has been modernized and often to such a degree as to be virtually unrecognizable or it has simply been abandoned for decades. Only at Goodwood can you see a racing circuit from the 1960's as it appeared during that era with only a temporary chicane with traffic cones as a concession to modern times.

The hill climb has been created for Gran Turismo 6 although it's unknown to the public if it will be in the final product or was simply a promotion specifically done up to show the game off with at this year's festival. I'd love for the overlooked race circuit to be modeled though in a Forza or GT game and give us an appropriate place to race some of the classic cars that these games always feature a few of.
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post #118 of 749 Old 08-10-2013, 08:36 AM
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Then maybe I saw that in a GT6 trailer.

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post #119 of 749 Old 08-11-2013, 07:24 PM
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If you follow the competitor here at AVS, I posted a YouTube video of a replay of a run up the Goodwood hill climb in GT6 a while back which perhaps explains why things looked familiar. Not many places out there where you can see a modern racecar on a track with things like hay bales and stone and brick walls lining the edges in places with tree's sometimes overhanging the track.

So it's easy for it to stick out.
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post #120 of 749 Old 08-16-2013, 10:30 AM
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here's a pic of the unlimited edition:



too bad it looks like we see the return of RUF. not that RUF doesn't have its place in history, but it would've been nice to see Porsche (have no clue whether Porsche is in or not or whether it's a separate car pack like with FM4). I'm hoping my favorite car (the LaFerrari) is in there. I want to see it in Forza Vista mode. pure car porn.


A new cinematic automotive journey begins for racing fans this November with the release of “Forza Motorsport 5,” exclusively for Xbox One. Today, Microsoft and Turn 10 Studios are announcing the details for the special edition versions of “Forza Motorsport 5,” including the Limited Edition and Day One Edition, both which are now available for pre-order from participating retailers.

“Forza Motorsport 5″ Limited Edition

With multiple car packs, VIP membership privileges, and packed-in content, the “Forza Motorsport 5″ Limited Edition is the ultimate package for “Forza Motorsport 5″ fans. The “Forza Motorsport 5″ Limited Edition features the all-new 2014 Audi RS 7 Sportback on the cover and includes the following digital content:

Limited Edition Car Pack – This five-car pack features new cars that are already destined for legendary status. Each car in the “Forza Motorsport 5” Limited Edition Car Pack will feature a Limited Edition livery and will be tuned to the top of its respective class. The cars in the “Forza Motorsport 5” Limited Edition Car Pack include*:
  • 2011 Audi RS 3 Sportback – More than a mere grocery-getter, the RS 3 Sportback marries performance with practicality. The result is a 340-horsepower grin-generator that will paste your head to the back of the seat and not crack a single egg in the process.
  • 2012 Aston Martin Vanquish – As comfortable on the track as it is on cozy country lanes, the Aston Martin Vanquish is equal parts refined style and snarling, road-taming grit.
  • 2013 Ford M Shelby Mustang GT500 – While the GT500’s aggressive lines suggest raw power and straight-line speed to spare, the sound of that big 5.8-liter V8 simply screams, “Get out of the way!”
  • 2013 McLaren P1™ – The successor to McLaren’s legendary F1, the McLaren P1™ is an automotive highlight reel: technological innovation, gorgeous contours, and pure, unapologetic performance. Epic, legendary, astounding – words tend to fail when describing this car’s limitless potential.
  • 2013 SRT Viper GTS – The return of the Viper has been celebrated by automotive fans worldwide. With an 8.4-liter V10 that’s capable of pushing the GTS to a top speed north of 200 mph, the 2013 Viper GTS has once again firmly entrenched its spot near the top of the American Muscle hierarchy.

VIP Membership – “Forza Motorsport 5″ VIPs enjoy exclusive benefits, including 2x player reward acceleration, access to exclusive multiplayer events, an exclusive in-game player card badge, and in-game gifts from the “Forza” community team.** VIPs will also have access to the “Forza Motorsport 5″ VIP Car Pack, featuring five amazing cars only available to VIP members, including:

  • 1965 Shelby Cobra 427 S/C — Marketed as “the fastest streetcar in the world,” the 427 S/C is the most desirable of all the Shelby Cobra variants. Out of the 100 that were planned only 53 were built. They are nothing less than a purpose-built race car converted at the last minute for street use.
  • 1987 RUF CTR Yellowbird — Dubbed the “Yellowbird” by journalists during a test drive event, the 1987 RUF CTR Yellowbird earns its name thanks to the canary-like chirping of its twin turbo blow-off valve. Just 29 of these cherished classics were built.
  • 1991 Mazda #55 787B – One of the most beloved race cars of all time, the 787B holds the distinction as being Japan’s only winner of a 24 Hours of Le Mans race. Featuring a brash green and orange livery and an unmistakable screaming Wankel rotary engine, the 787B continues to inspire more than 20 years after its debut.
  • 2011 Ford F150 SVT Raptor — Say hello to your rear view mirror’s worst nightmare. The Raptor is essentially a factory-built pre-runner race truck with suspension to match its under-the-hood muscle. Slide it, jump it, whatever you like — it just begs for more.
  • 2011 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport – Even among hypercars, the Veyron Super Sport stands alone. After all, this is the car that currently holds the Guinness record for “World’s Fastest Car” at speeds approaching 270 mph.

Day One Car Pack – A three-car pack featuring special liveries and custom tuned cars. See below for details on the Day One Car Pack.
In addition, “Forza Motorsport 5″ Limited Edition owners will receive a custom Steelbook™ case, a decal sheet featuring “Forza Motorsport 5”, “Xbox One”, and Audi window decals, and 1,250 car tokens (a $9.99 value) that will allow Limited Edition owners instant access to any car in the game. The “Forza Motorsport 5″ Limited Edition will be available for an estimated retail price of $79.99 at launch and is now available for pre-order at participating retailers.


“Forza Motorsport 5″ Day One Edition

“Forza Motorsport 5″ fans will also have the option to pre-order the “Forza Motorsport 5″ Day One Edition, featuring the Day One Car Pack and special Day One commemorative packaging with artwork that matches the Xbox One Day One console design.

Day One Car Pack – This three-car pack features amazing cars from Lamborghini, Audi, and Ford; each with a Day One-themed livery and custom tuning package created by the experts at Turn 10. The Day One Car Pack includes the following cars*:
  • 2010 Audi TT RS Coupe – Stuffed stem to stern with modern tech, the TT RS is the first TT model to carry Audi’s famed RS badge – a distinction that’s earned on the track from the moment you step on the gas.
  • 2013 Ford Focus ST — Debuting with the same 247-hp 2.0-liter turbocharged EcoBoost engine from the much larger Ford Explorer SUV, the new Ford Focus ST packs a serious punch
  • 2011 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera – Like great sculpture, the Superleggera’s chiseled form is carefully considered for maximum impact. That’s where the similarities end, however, because this work of art is best appreciated when it’s moving at top speed.
The Day One edition of “Forza Motorsport 5″ will be available for an estimated retail price $59.99 at launch and is now available for pre-order at participating retailers.

“Forza Motorsport 5″ will be playable at this year’s Gamescom conference in Cologne, Germany. Conference attendees will be able to play an updated build of the game, as well as check out the “Forza Motorsport 5 Limited Edition” cover car – the Audi RS 7 Sportback – on display in the Xbox booth throughout the week.
To learn more about “Forza Motorsport 5,” please visit the official website.

* The cars featured in the Limited Edition Car Pack and the Day One Edition Car Pack of “Forza Motorsport 5″ have been customized with unique Xbox One liveries and feature custom tunes designed by the developers at Turn 10 to improve performance above their stock counterparts. The stock versions of these cars will also be available on disc in “Forza Motorsport 5.”
** Requires paid Xbox Live Gold subscription for online multiplayer features.
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