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post #1 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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never thought this would be possible... yes, it only applies to the US and places like the UK. but even then, who ever thought anyone would catch the Wii in the US?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/analysis-xbox-360-poised-to-pass-wii-in-us-sales-by-years-end/

Over the past three years, Microsoft has consistently eaten into Nintendo's "insurmountable" US sales lead, to the point that it seems that the Xbox 360 will end the year as the system with the most lifetime sales in America.


Sources: NPD data, console maker announcements.


For the last three years (starting in June of 2010), the Xbox 360 has outsold the Wii in the US every single month (save for December 2008, when a sales surge led the Wii to beat the Xbox 360 by half a million units). Microsoft's sustained sales dominance in that period has reduced the Wii's American sales lead from over 9 million systems three years ago to just under 2 million units today.

Microsoft also seems poised to pad its US sales lead a little bit more before the Xbox 360 and Wii officially go the way of the dodo.

The sales situation in the US is being mirrored in the UK, where tracking firm Chart-Track confirmed today that the Xbox 360 is days away from taking the overall lifetime sales lead in the country, with both systems right around 8.4 million in total sales.


Note: Data for this chart based on the best available information from within the past six months. Current numbers may vary slightly due to time differences. UK PS3 estimate extrapolated from 5 million sales announcement in October 2012. Sources: NPD, Media Create, Chart Track, official console maker announcements.


Current, precise numbers for other countries are hard to come by, but official data released by the three console manufacturers in recent months show the Wii as the best-selling system worldwide by a good margin, with somewhere around 100 million worldwide sales (99.84 million in March, to be precise). The Xbox 360 and PS3, on the other hand, are both hovering around three-quarters of that amount (75.9 million for the 360 as of March and 75 million even for the PS3 as of December). As you can see from the above chart, though, those sales are distributed very differently between the various major sales regions for game consoles.

Will either Sony or Microsoft be able to take the worldwide sales crown from Nintendo in the next few years? It seems unlikely. Then again, it seemed unlikely back in 2010 that the Xbox 360 would ever be able to eliminate the Wii's sizeable sales lead in the US. Now, that seems inevitable.
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 04:57 AM
 
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but even then, who ever thought anyone would catch the Wii in the US?

Me? Wii sales dropped off a cliff after the rush to own one was over. They sold ~50% of their consoles in a 14-18 month period stretching two Xmas seasons.

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post #3 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 06:59 AM
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Never expected the 360 to outsell the Wii anywhere either.

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post #4 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 08:30 AM
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I never would have thought that the PS3 was that far behind the 360 in the States.

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post #5 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 08:54 AM
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It's why the PS3 and Xbox 360 are essentially tied worldwide right now. If the market in North America reflected a region like Europe, the Playstation 3 would've surpassed the Xbox 360 quite sometime ago and established a nice lead.

But right now they're just about dead even because it significantly outperforms the PS3 at retail in North America despite the PS3 handily leading the 360 in most of the world.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I never would have thought that the PS3 was that far behind the 360 in the States.
'

Its all about the games. What are the two genres Americans love most?

Shooters & Sports.

360 has by far the best selection of those games. And has the better online experience for playing them. The party/group system is a must for keeping your "team" together when playing shooters & sport games with other friends via online multiplayer. Without it, you will end up sending game invites over and over and over.

Another reason why I'll be doing most of my gaming on the XB1.

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post #7 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

The party/group system is a must for keeping your "team" together when playing shooters & sport games with other friends via online multiplayer. Without it, you will end up sending game invites over and over and over.

Another reason why I'll be doing most of my gaming on the XB1.

yeah, love the party system. It just seems so obvious to have it but it's weird to think about the 360 not having it originally. I didn't get a 360 until Jasper came out (all the RROD talk scared me) so I never experienced the blades UI. I never experienced a non-party system. If it's true that it's been bumped up to 32 people per party for the One, that's some craziness. 8 people can sound like a real party with all the chaos sometimes.
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

yeah, love the party system. It just seems so obvious to have it but it's weird to think about the 360 not having it originally. I didn't get a 360 until Jasper came out (all the RROD talk scared me) so I never experienced the blades UI. I never experienced a non-party system. If it's true that it's been bumped up to 32 people per party for the One, that's some craziness. 8 people can sound like a real party with all the chaos sometimes.
I doubt we would use bigger parties most of the time, but I know we would use it every year during our fantasy football drafts. We can still draft on the computers but jump in a party and joke and have a good time.

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post #9 of 16 Old 06-28-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, I'm very excited about the possibilities of fantasy football on the One. I hated having to have the laptop nearby for watching my points go up during the game.

They're talking about the fantasy football app for Windows 8 (using the NFL's fantasy football system). I'm hoping the One will get the same or similar app. I do prefer ESPN's setup though so maybe ESPN will be forced to do FF for the Xbox as well. I abandoned Yahoo's FF years ago because it felt silly to have to pay for it.
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

'

Its all about the games. What are the two genres Americans love most?

Shooters & Sports.

360 has by far the best selection of those games. And has the better online experience for playing them. The party/group system is a must for keeping your "team" together when playing shooters & sport games with other friends via online multiplayer. Without it, you will end up sending game invites over and over and over.

I don't know how important the online functions are. I'll leave that for those that regularly play these online to decide since the only group activities I've ever participated in to any degree with online multiplayer has been on the PC. On the 360/PS3, it's random people or just a friend or two on occasion.

But how exactly are the lineups that different for these two genres? I'm not a sports fan although I've enjoyed the occasional game. But as a casual observer, I would think that the PS3 would lead thanks to the 1st party MLB: The Show franchise with the Xbox 360 not having anything major that I'm aware of for exclusives with most material being multiplatform.

And the vast majority of the 1st/3rd person shooters appear on both and are multiplatform. And while Halo is huge and Gears of War is popular, Sony has a solid series with Resistance although the last time out of the gate seemed to underperform at retail which hopefully is just a momentary setback. And Killzone seems to gain popularity with each release and is quickly growing to be a major player. And I'm unsure of its status, but they had the SOCOM/MAG franchise although I think the Sony developer for it is troubled or perhaps even closed. But I have to imagine that SOCOM will be back in a big way sooner rather than later.

I don't see the situation being much different in those two genres on the PS3 and Xbox 360?
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-29-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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honestly, I think the big difference between sales numbers between the US and other regions with regards to the 360 is Xbox Live itself. The Xbox experience is built around Xbox Live. Xbox Live in the US has a lot more bang for the buck than in other countries. If I only had what my friend in Sweden had, I wouldn't pay the $35-40/year I pay for the US version.

I have a few Xbox friends from Europe (3 from the Netherlands, 4 from UK, 2 from France, 1 from Sweden). And their Xbox Live is pretty bare bones. Chatting and online multiplayer are basically it. They complain that their sales and content are different and less common than the US ones. They don't have access to things like Netflix. And even things like Sky TV which is a UK thing aren't available in the mainland Europe. Every region has their own content that their own Xbox division negotiated. Now, the UK's Xbox Live is not as good as the US Xbox Live, but even the UK version beats out the Europe version by a fair margin. One of my UK friends has been an Xbox person forever since the original Xbox and because most of his friends are American, he knows the difference in content between the two countries. A lot of them tried out Xbox Live in their respective countries and say what's in one region is not in another region so it's hard for them to justify paying pretty much the same price as an American pays for it but have less reasons to have it.

in terms of shooters, Xbox is still king no matter the multiplatform situation. partly because of the party situation, partly because of the DLC coming first to Xbox, partly because there are more people talking on Xbox, partly because the system is cheaper, partly because of the controllers, and partly because of the large used game market. you can look up and down the multiplatform shooters and the Xbox version sold more. even if you look at the sales numbers for the PS3 exclusive shooters, they don't come close to matching the equivalent Xbox exclusives on a per title basis. Halo 4 alone outsold the entire Resistance series for PS3 combined. the diehard PS3 fan will argue that it's because there's more game variety on PS3 so titles individually sell less. you can argue whatever you want to argue, but sales figures are sales figures.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-29-2013, 05:01 PM
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I'm not arguing anything,. Rather, I'm trying to understand. I just don't see a drastic difference in the first person shooter selections of both. Things like controller preference, online preferences, DLC exclusivity, and other features and factors are certainly important and I can see how they could make the difference.

But when 9 times out of 10 a first person or third person shooter makes an appearance on both and they both offer some entertaining and quality options for the few exceptions to that rule, I think it's a bit inaccurate to act as if there's a massive difference in game lineups there even though I think it's fair to say that Halo surpasses all of Sony's exclusive 1st/3rd person shooters combined.

And with the sports genre, I see no gap at all. As best as I can tell, every major sports release that the 360 receives also appears on the PS3 (Unlike the Xbox days where there were some exclusives like NFL Fever). And the PS3 on top of all of that has a popular 1st party baseball franchise that the 360 doesn't receive.

So unless we're including things like Kinect Wii Sports clones or Sony's Hot Shots Golf franchise here, the 360 isn't leading the sports category but is actually a bit behind from the perspective of the lineup of games that are available. If there's a reason why sports on the 360 is a competitive advantage for Microsoft in North America, it's other factors like controller preferences, being where your friends are which is crucial for online multiplayer, the quality of the online experience, etc.

It's not the game lineup.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-29-2013, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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this is another wording problem. my fault. when I said "you can argue whatever you want to argue," I wasn't referring to "you" specifically. I was saying, "people can argue whatever they want to argue".

as for sports, yeah, it should be equal but they're not. they mirror the console sales. Madden outsells on the 360 over the PS3 because in the US, the 360 outsells the PS3 and football is an American sport. And at least for the early versions of Madden, it ran better on the 360 than PS3. Also helps that the Madden video game show on ESPN uses 360 systems as well as all the NFL charity events. The NBA 2K shows more sales on the 360 side because the NBA is still more US-centric even though basketball is becoming the global game (will eventually pass up soccer at their current trajectories mostly because of logistics like it's much easier to maintain basketball courts, you can fit a lot more courts in the same given area, etc.).

same thing for soccer. Soccer is more international so the PS3 version sells more than the 360 version.

Microsoft isn't interested in selling baseball. It's not a major seller. You can't even break a million sales in any given baseball title. No third party wants to take it up anymore. EA doesn't even want it. Baseball's a dying sport no matter how much baseball fans tout it. Football's passed it. Basketball's passed it. Soccer's always been higher. heck, tennis games outsell baseball games. golf games outsell baseball games.
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-30-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I don't know how important the online functions are. I'll leave that for those that regularly play these online to decide since the only group activities I've ever participated in to any degree with online multiplayer has been on the PC. On the 360/PS3, it's random people or just a friend or two on occasion.

But how exactly are the lineups that different for these two genres? I'm not a sports fan although I've enjoyed the occasional game. But as a casual observer, I would think that the PS3 would lead thanks to the 1st party MLB: The Show franchise with the Xbox 360 not having anything major that I'm aware of for exclusives with most material being multiplatform.

And the vast majority of the 1st/3rd person shooters appear on both and are multiplatform. And while Halo is huge and Gears of War is popular, Sony has a solid series with Resistance although the last time out of the gate seemed to underperform at retail which hopefully is just a momentary setback. And Killzone seems to gain popularity with each release and is quickly growing to be a major player. And I'm unsure of its status, but they had the SOCOM/MAG franchise although I think the Sony developer for it is troubled or perhaps even closed. But I have to imagine that SOCOM will be back in a big way sooner rather than later.

I don't see the situation being much different in those two genres on the PS3 and Xbox 360?

1) COD. It gets timed exclusive content on the Xbox. Mostly DLC, like new maps, weapons, accessories and gameplay modes. COD isnt just the best selling shooter ever made, its the BEST selling videogame of all time. That makes a huge difference in which console choice. The Xbox-preferred treatment from Activision & COD will only continue into the next generation. Its already been announced at E3.. that the next generation version of COD will again have extra content that will come to the XB1 first. Meaning any hardcore COD fan on the fence about which next gen console they should purchase first, will probably choose buy the XB1 over the PS4.

2) Madden. Pretty much the same as above. Look at the sales numbers for Madden, look at the sales numbers for any other sports game. EA Sports shows favoritism for other popular titles on the Xbox too. About the only PS advantage would be MLB games. But remember this is USA we are talking about. Just like comparing real life TV ratings.. the MLB lags behind both the NFL & NBA in both videogame sales & online play. In the USA.. football comes first, basketball second and baseball is a distant third.

3) The Xbox controller is designed better for shooters period. The asymmetrical layout of the thumb-sticks have a more natural firearm like feel. The controller is has more heft & substance. The triggers are actual curved triggers you pull, not buttons you press. Even the vibration is more defined. If you could play the exact same shooter or sports game on both systems, the differences in controller feel alone would be enough reason to choose the Xbox version over the PS version.

4) Halo & Gears. Tons more popular than Resistance & Killzone. Its not even close, Halo alone has outsold every exclusive PS shooter combined. I cant even believe you brought that up. I'm guessing you dont play shooters much.. you simply know the names of them.

5) While I've already discussed the importance of the party system for "teaming up" for sports & shooters. I cannot overemphasize how important this next statement is. PS4 will require payment (PS+) for online play next gen. Online gaming will not be "free" for PS4. The PSN experience has always trailed XBL because people rarely connect a mic and there is no Party/Group system. Now that you have to pay, to play online next generation.. Its a no brainer predicting less Playstation gamers online for the next generation.

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post #15 of 16 Old 06-30-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I never would have thought that the PS3 was that far behind the 360 in the States.

Seriously? Even after Sony launched a whole year later, and at a much higher price? Microsoft did a really good job establishing the 360 in that first year, and really for the whole generation. I don't know what happened overseas, other than maybe Sony having a more loyal following.

This fall will indeed be very interesting, with both consoles launching near each other. And Sony being cheaper. I've always felt that price is a HUGE factor in selling new consoles, and I think the One's price is in the "I'll wait for a price drop" category, especially with the PS4 sitting there at $100 cheaper. If Sony has plenty of stock, I see a disappointing launch for Microsoft. Just my opinion.

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post #16 of 16 Old 06-30-2013, 09:32 AM
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Guys, I was never confused on why a multiplatform game could perform better on one console than the other. There's a reason for instance why I buy my racing games on the Xbox 360 when it's an option. Particularly if it's a racer that leans towards the arcade side of things a bit that I don't intend to wear an expensive wheel out playing it with. So I fully understand how such things can make a difference in the platform of choice. I've almost always stuck with the Xbox 360 this generation when it has been a choice due to my preference for it in several areas.

I was strictly talking about the lineup of games itself. Not things like DLC exclusivity. I can fully understand and agree with something like the Xbox 360 controller being superior in certain genre and thus creating a difference. But something like the lineup of sports releases in popular American sports on the Xbox 360 isn't Microsoft's competitive advantage since that lineup is not only the same on the PS3 but the competition recieves a fairly major exclusive each year.

The difference that creates an advantage for Microsoft with sports comes from things like controller preferences, various online elements, and other factors that differentiate a lineup of games that appears in substantially the same form on the competition these days. That's what I was getting across that seems to be flying over some heads with responses about things I never contested or expressed puzzlement over. It's not the lineup of games that creates Microsoft's advantage in the sports genre since if anything they're at a slight disadvantage due to that Sony baseball franchise. Rather, it's their implementation and various platform factors that have made the difference for them that has made the Xbox 360 the American sports fan's console of choice.

As for Resistance, Killzone, and Sony's lineup of online multiplayer oriented tactical shooters, I wasn't out to portray them as substitutes for Halo & Gears of War or to imply that they're as popular or even close to it. I think I even said as such. Rather, I was talking about the lineup for that genre as a whole which is substantially the same. And Sony does have some well liked exclusives even though it's obvious that Halo alone is larger than all of them combined. But something like Killzone 3 undoubtedly softened the blow a bit for the shooter fans that only owned a PS3 so I think it was fair to point out that the exclusive side of this genre wasn't entirely one sided.

I think Microsoft has a significant advantage in the lineup for the 1st/3rd person genre (Unlike the sports genre where I contend that they're actually at a slight disadvantage where just the game lineup itself is concerned). But I simply think it's a bit of a misnomer to state that it has by far the best selection of those games when over 90% of the time a entry in this area will be multiplatform and there are probably well over a dozen multiplatform releases for every exclusive in the shooter genre.
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