Next-Gen Madden could be in trouble... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Not looking so good:


http://www.operationsports.com/news/670722/madden-nfl-25-video-mnf-simulation-colts-vs-chargers-xbox-one/




I'm sorry, but there are many, many things I saw in that video that did not give me confidence in this game. In fact, I'm getting visions of Madden 06 from 8 years ago. Not a good feeling.
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post #2 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 06:24 PM
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Are you serious? Don't you make a thread every year about something wrong with Madden and what could u see in a replay sim that showed highlights and basically the graphics.

The 5.0 is here
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post #3 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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just look at the animations. They look so herky jerky. What the heck is wrong with this dev team ?

The video before that showed the Saints and Dolphins looked a wee bit better, but this one just looks jank. imo


Hopefully Visual Concepts will save us with a decent Next Gen NBA 2K14.
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post #4 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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You know what, I just saw this video again, and it actually didn't look that bad. The first time I saw it, it seemed like all the animations were kinda weird and herky , jerky, but seeing it again, everything seemed ok. The only thing that really seems weird to me now is that the player models seem a bit off to me. Everybody seems kinda short and stalky.


Somebody at Kotaku also thinks it looks bad:

http://kotaku.com/espn-says-its-been-using-next-gen-madden-footage-it-l-1445158516



Honestly, the smart glass video that came out, that showed the Saints and Dolphins playing each other on a plasma in the background, I thought it looked halfway decent. The black jerseys of the Saints had this interesting shine to them that I've never seen before, which is cool, but overall that video was also a bit underwhelming. The only really impressive things about the game is the lighting and the grass. The grass you'll only really see on closeup replays, and the lighting is nice, but was expecting a better effort on Next-Gen. Seems like they are simply going to mostly port over the 360 version and just make the visuals mildly better.
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post #5 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 10:05 PM
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You're not the only one. It's sad that EA is still allowed to make nfl games after 8 years of crap on the current gen consoles. The only hope is for 2k to comeback, but we all know how EA will never let that license go..
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post #6 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 10:50 PM
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Sounds like the blame belongs with the NFL, not EA.
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post #7 of 32 Old 10-14-2013, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The guys on the Operations Sports forums are crucifying this game. Every other comment is how Tiburon is a joke, and how EA needs to sub-contract out to the old 2K football team to make the next Madden. The venom over there is really harsh. They wonder how the producers of this game are able to sleep at night.
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post #8 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

The guys on the Operations Sports forums are crucifying this game. Every other comment is how Tiburon is a joke, and how EA needs to sub-contract out to the old 2K football team to make the next Madden. The venom over there is really harsh. They wonder how the producers of this game are able to sleep at night.

really?? how do they sleep at night! man people blow stuff way out of proportion, it is a stupid game and more importantly it sells millions every year, tough to tell people to they need to change when you are giving them your money.
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post #9 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 08:47 AM
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really?? how do they sleep at night! man people blow stuff way out of proportion, it is a stupid game and more importantly it sells millions every year, tough to tell people to they need to change when you are giving them your money.

While I do agree it does not get around the fact that Madden games for the last 5 or so years have been garbage...this is why I have not bought an EA sports game (actually ATM the only EA game I buy and play is Battlefield) in the last 5 years or so.
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post #10 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 08:57 AM
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really?? how do they sleep at night! man people blow stuff way out of proportion, it is a stupid game and more importantly it sells millions every year, tough to tell people to they need to change when you are giving them your money.

This is exactly why I will not be purchasing another Madden game until they improve. So many people complain about it, but they still buy it every year because they love the NFL so much. I bought Madden 10, and when I didn't like it, I didn't purchase 11 or 12, then I bought 13 (I drank the kool-aid) and I was disappointed again. It's so recycled every year. There is no innovation. There are things that were done years ago in NFL 2K, and have been done recently with MLB: The Show and NBA 2K that Madden still does not do well (or at all). When I play The Show, I feel like I'm at a baseball game. When I play Madden, I feel like I'm playing a video game. There's a big difference.

Also, the NFL is the cause for the exclusive license. The NFL prefers to have exclusive partners with all of their business (jerseys, shoes, etc) and they applied that logic to video games. EA Sports has a much deeper pile of cash than 2K Sports so they had a better bid. If 2K had more money, they would have the license. The NFL approached both companies with the deal, it was not the other way around. I wish they would change their policy on this to allow some competition on the marketplace for NFL games, but sadly they will not. I was never a fan of the 2K football games, but I did appreciate the things those games brought to the table.

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post #11 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 08:57 AM
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While I do agree it does not get around the fact that Madden games for the last 5 or so years have been garbage...this is why I have not bought an EA sports game (actually ATM the only EA game I buy and play is Battlefield) in the last 5 years or so.

calling a game garbage (which is fine), saying "how do you sleep at night" like they are raping kids (is not OK). just like COD developers getting death threats, people get way too worked up.. somewhat off topic but just like houston texans fans cheering when Matt got hurt
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post #12 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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it's hard to blame the people buying the games when they don't really have another option. Sometimes you can love something so much (NFL football), that even if the game is crap, it's better than nothing, so people shrug their shoulders and buy the game.

I personally haven't bought a new Madden in many, many years. I bought a used Madden a couple of years back just to check it out, for shizz and giggles, (the one with Bret Favre on the cover), but it wasn't that good and I got rid of it. I used to absolutely love Madden back in the days. I remember, on the Sega Genesis Madden '93 being one of my all-time favorites. I still pull out that cartridge every now and then and give it a go. It's sad that a game that is over 20 years old now is better than anything they have put out in decades.
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post #13 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

it's hard to blame the people buying the games when they don't really have another option. Sometimes you can love something so much (NFL football), that even if the game is crap, it's better than nothing, so people shrug their shoulders and buy the game.

I personally haven't bought a new Madden in many, many years. I bought a used Madden a couple of years back just to check it out, for shizz and giggles, (the one with Bret Favre on the cover), but it wasn't that good and I got rid of it. I used to absolutely love Madden back in the days. I remember, on the Sega Genesis Madden '93 being one of my all-time favorites. I still pull out that cartridge every now and then and give it a go. It's sad that a game that is over 20 years old now is better than anything they have put out in decades.

I still fire up Joe Montana Football on the Genesis biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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NHL 94 for Genesis was my favorite.
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post #15 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

The guys on the Operations Sports forums are crucifying this game.

That's pretty much the MO on the Operation Sports forums. People generally get really excited building up to the game's launch, and then spend the next 6-9 months complaining about the game. Since we're still right in the middle of the 6-9 months of complaining for the 360/PS3 version, I'm not surprised that has carried over to the next-gen versions too. biggrin.gif

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post #16 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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That's pretty much the MO on the Operation Sports forums. People generally get really excited building up to the game's launch, and then spend the next 6-9 months complaining about the game. Since we're still right in the middle of the 6-9 months of complaining for the 360/PS3 version, I'm not surprised that has carried over to the next-gen versions too. biggrin.gif

Most of the guys over there seem to think that EA basically just ported over the base code of the 360/PS3 version, and added a few token next-gen touches, and called it a day. I honestly have no idea if this is the case or not, because I haven't played any of the recent Maddens, so I have no basis to go on. However, these guys are pretty fanatical about this stuff, so I'm guessing that some of what they are talking about has to be legit, which is disappointing. I also know how they could potentially throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I'm guessing 99 percent of the people posting haven't had any hands on time with the actual game, so it remains to be seen.

I'm still very interested in this Madden, despite the negativity, because I've been longing for that good Madden feeling that I haven't really felt since the Sega Genesis days. I was hoping maybe with new consoles we'd get a fresh start..
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post #17 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

it's hard to blame the people buying the games when they don't really have another option. Sometimes you can love something so much (NFL football), that even if the game is crap, it's better than nothing, so people shrug their shoulders and buy the game.

Sorry, I won't let the buying public off the hook that easy. I love the NFL and haven't bought Madden since about 07, and it was crap still then and I regretted that purchase. I won a free copy of 09 and that sucked too. If you keep buying it then it won't change, and if you keep buying it year after year then you should quit crying about how bad it is. Not just you in particular, but the general "you" as in all the millions of people who buy those millions of copies.
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post #18 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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I still fire up Joe Montana Football on the Genesis biggrin.gif
That was always my fav on the 16 bit systems, I never played Madden until the current gen consoles came out. When I had a dreamcast I played the hell out of NFL2K and on the original Xbox I played NFL Fever, only when there was no other option did I start playing Madden.
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post #19 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 11:32 AM
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Sorry, I won't let the buying public off the hook that easy. I love the NFL and haven't bought Madden since about 07, and it was crap still then and I regretted that purchase. I won a free copy of 09 and that sucked too. If you keep buying it then it won't change, and if you keep buying it year after year then you should quit crying about how bad it is. Not just you in particular, but the general "you" as in all the millions of people who buy those millions of copies.

LOL, wasn't that the one that introduced that stupid cone vision for the QB...that was the worst one of the series and if I recall the last one I bought also. Even my buddy who buys Madden every year regardless of how bad the previous years was did not buy Madden 25 and that is saying something.
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That cone vision thing was unable to capture the magic of TV Sports Football on the Amiga from 1986, even though it tried. It was a great concept that worked in TVS because it made you take time to survey the field like a real QB does.
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post #21 of 32 Old 10-15-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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That cone vision thing was unable to capture the magic of TV Sports Football on the Amiga from 1986, even though it tried. It was a great concept that worked in TVS because it made you take time to survey the field like a real QB does.

Check this story out... it includes both TV Sports Football and Madden...



(current age = 43)


Ok, this was in the year of our lord 1990. I was 19 years old at the time. I was reading a GamePro magazine at a Walden's Books in the mall, and I saw pictures of TV Sports Football for the TurboGrafx-16. The screenshot was a kicker in the process of taking a field goal kick. The sprites were huge ! Coming from Tecmo Bowl on NES, it looked amazing (remember, we are talking about early 1990)




That's the screenshot that I saw in the GamePro. It made the game look amazing, but it was kinda like the first ever bullshot. Technically, it was an in game screen, but it was basically a non-interactive cinema and the actual game looked way different. Here is what the regular game play looked like:




So, I actually ended up buying a Turbografx-16 early in 1990, with dreams of the TV Sports Football game coming soon. Unfortunately, the game kept getting delayed over and over. Then finally, after a ton of delays, the game comes out. It has a 4 player capability, so me and all my college buds were playing 2 on 2 games for about two weeks straight. The game wasn't the dream I hoped it was, but it seemed more like real football than Tecmo Bowl, so I was happy despite the delay. Then, one day I come home from work, and everybody is looking at me with this weird look on their face, like somebody died. My buddy came up to me and said, "Man, you're not going to believe what we just played... Deion brought over his Sega Genesis with a new football game called John Madden Football.





They told me that they don't think they can play TV Sports Football anymore after playing that. The funny thing is, that I also had a Genesis at that time, and we had been playing Lakers vs. Celtics, which I just got a week or so after TV Sports Football came out. So, it wasn't like I had to buy a whole system to get Madden. So I ran up to the Babbages and grabbed John Madden Football for the Sega Genesis. All my friends had already experienced this game, but I hadn't yet had a chance to play it. I come home and pop it into the Genesis, and I was amazed like I've never been amazed before by a sports game.




Unless you were there at the time, to experience it first hand, you just can't comprehend how huge a leap the original John Madden Football was on the Sega Genesis. It was a truly revolutionary sports game. Pretty much every single game that followed it, copied the perspective and play callng system that it used. The scrolling field. The players coming in and out from the sidelines. It was the Doom of football games. Every football game that came out eventually tried to copy the format that Park Place had created with that game.


It sucked in a way, because my first love was the TurboGrafx-16, and I really desperately wanted TV Sports Football to totally justify the purchase of that system. I know I got a Genesis that same year, probably about 9 months after the TG-16, but I still felt like the TG-16 was my first system and I deep down wanted them to beat the Genesis. After seeing John Madden Football for the first time, I knew it was game over for the TG-16. TV Sports Football for the TG-16 is actually a decent game if you can get past the graphics, and the fake names, etc, etc. We played the crap out of that game for about a month or so (before Madden hit and changed our world forever)
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just look at the animations. They look so herky jerky. What the heck is wrong with this dev team ? .

Lack of a good budget
Overworked
Yearly production and release schedule
Lack of competition (Madden made it's biggest strides IMO when facing competition from Sonys NFL Gameday and later Sega's NFL2K series)

AAA games take time and money, and increasingly EA can't or won't put aside the budget to make Madden shine on a yearly basis. Paying for NFL exclusivity is also both a huge cost that needs to be made up elsewhere, and lessens the burden of needed to compete in a marketplace.

Basically everything about madden is increasingly working against it if you want a killer App. And EA won't change it until they squeeze whats left of it and need to.
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post #23 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 04:14 AM
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So I ran up to the Babbages

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post #24 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 09:57 AM
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Wow, I havent heard that name in a long time. Man I have been playing video games for a long time.

That or Walden's Books.
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Wow, I havent heard that name in a long time. Man I have been playing video games for a long time.

I bought my PS2 from Babbages. I loved that place when I was younger. They called me at like 6 on a Friday to tell me I could come pick up my pre-order. I had it completely paid off (which was pretty impressive for a high schooler with no real job). My first PS2 game was actually Madden 2001. I played that game like a mad man.

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post #26 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 12:14 PM
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I remember being at the mall and going to KB Toys where they had a tv set up with NFL 2K playing when the dreamcast came out. The graphics and animation on that game were mindblowing at the time.

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post #27 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

The guys on the Operations Sports forums are crucifying this game. Every other comment is how Tiburon is a joke, and how EA needs to sub-contract out to the old 2K football team to make the next Madden. The venom over there is really harsh. They wonder how the producers of this game are able to sleep at night.
Hopefully they aren't talking about the team that brought those horrible All-Pro football games to the 360 earlier this gen.

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post #28 of 32 Old 10-18-2013, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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The newest Madden trailer that I saw, looked much, much better than previous videos I've seen.
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post #29 of 32 Old 10-19-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Check this story out... it includes both TV Sports Football and Madden...



(current age = 43)


Ok, this was in the year of our lord 1990. I was 19 years old at the time. I was reading a GamePro magazine at a Walden's Books in the mall, and I saw pictures of TV Sports Football for the TurboGrafx-16. The screenshot was a kicker in the process of taking a field goal kick. The sprites were huge ! Coming from Tecmo Bowl on NES, it looked amazing (remember, we are talking about early 1990)




That's the screenshot that I saw in the GamePro. It made the game look amazing, but it was kinda like the first ever bullshot. Technically, it was an in game screen, but it was basically a non-interactive cinema and the actual game looked way different. Here is what the regular game play looked like:




So, I actually ended up buying a Turbografx-16 early in 1990, with dreams of the TV Sports Football game coming soon. Unfortunately, the game kept getting delayed over and over. Then finally, after a ton of delays, the game comes out. It has a 4 player capability, so me and all my college buds were playing 2 on 2 games for about two weeks straight. The game wasn't the dream I hoped it was, but it seemed more like real football than Tecmo Bowl, so I was happy despite the delay. Then, one day I come home from work, and everybody is looking at me with this weird look on their face, like somebody died. My buddy came up to me and said, "Man, you're not going to believe what we just played... Deion brought over his Sega Genesis with a new football game called John Madden Football.





They told me that they don't think they can play TV Sports Football anymore after playing that. The funny thing is, that I also had a Genesis at that time, and we had been playing Lakers vs. Celtics, which I just got a week or so after TV Sports Football came out. So, it wasn't like I had to buy a whole system to get Madden. So I ran up to the Babbages and grabbed John Madden Football for the Sega Genesis. All my friends had already experienced this game, but I hadn't yet had a chance to play it. I come home and pop it into the Genesis, and I was amazed like I've never been amazed before by a sports game.




Unless you were there at the time, to experience it first hand, you just can't comprehend how huge a leap the original John Madden Football was on the Sega Genesis. It was a truly revolutionary sports game. Pretty much every single game that followed it, copied the perspective and play callng system that it used. The scrolling field. The players coming in and out from the sidelines. It was the Doom of football games. Every football game that came out eventually tried to copy the format that Park Place had created with that game.


It sucked in a way, because my first love was the TurboGrafx-16, and I really desperately wanted TV Sports Football to totally justify the purchase of that system. I know I got a Genesis that same year, probably about 9 months after the TG-16, but I still felt like the TG-16 was my first system and I deep down wanted them to beat the Genesis. After seeing John Madden Football for the first time, I knew it was game over for the TG-16. TV Sports Football for the TG-16 is actually a decent game if you can get past the graphics, and the fake names, etc, etc. We played the crap out of that game for about a month or so (before Madden hit and changed our world forever)
...and yet Tecmo Super Bowl was still better.

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post #30 of 32 Old 10-19-2013, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Look, Tecmo Bowl was (and is), a great game. But, let's be real. Tecmo Bowl is much more of an "arcade" type football game. It's more for people that aren't really into football, but like an arcade style sports game. Hey, I remember playing with Bo Jackson, and I also remember how the kick returner on the Chicago Bears (Gentry) was absolutely amazing if you really knew how to use him properly. But, when push comes to shove, it's not doing too great a job at recreating the game of football.

On defense, you kinda had to hope and pray that you picked the exact offensive play that they called, or you were screwed.


When Madden first arrived on the Sega Genesis, it was a watershed moment in the history of sports video games. With Madden, you could dominate on defense if you really knew what you were doing. Most games are way more focused on making everything offensive, but with Madden, if you knew how to position your defensive end, or defensive tackle, along the line of scrimmage, and wiggle him in there right when the ball was snapped, you could rush the passer, and put your hands up at the right time and deflect the QB's pass. You could basically terrorize the other teams QB if you had a good defensive line player that you could use on him.

When I was playing the game with my college buddies at the time, everybody eventually figured out how to rush the passer like that. It became a situation where you would actually have to call certain pass plays to deal with the rush. You'd have to call a play where a man goes in motion, and you would hike the ball right when that man was right in the way of the oncoming blitzing defender. This might give you a fraction of a second more, to get your pass off. Or, to combat it, you'd have to audible to a running play to one of the opposite sides of where they were blitzing from.

It basically became more of a chess match, than just an arcade style football game like Tecmo Bowl.


Now, I totally understand that there is a HUGE segment of gamers that aren't actual football fans, and they just want that arcade experience, and that is perfectly fine, but for those of us that are true football junkies, there is nothing better than having an awesome chess match with your buddy in a game of Madden.
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