Will Microsoft Fire the Second...But Definitive Shot In Next Generation Consoles? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 138 Old 05-06-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

You're overthinking it. The big revelation last Friday was that the Xbox OS is windows 8 with a slightly different face. The Xbox interface is just a win 8 app....so everything will run just fine in "normal" windows. As for the games, those too will run just fine in windows as well, that's the whole point of dx12. They could compartmentalize them in a VM like they do on the X1, which could make it easier to manage the game suspension feature, but even that's probably not necessary. Anything further than that is pointless redundancy, there's no reason they need to get another physical drive or even partition involved. Their stated goal is convergence towards a single platform. Simplicity, rather than complexity. The idea of a "dedicated gaming platform" died this gen - both the X1 and the PS4 are running heavyweight OSes as it is. The xbox one is quite literally running windows already, its just unrecognizable. Even SteamOS is a click away from a desktop.

So maybe a few people cry for a while that their Xbox one is no longer the cutting edge (as if it ever was) but at the end of the day this is nothing but good news for the overall platform...all of the fears that the Xbox one itself is being left behind will be unfounded.

BD2003:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/06/bill-gates-would-support-xbox-spin-off-microsoft-responds

It seems like Satya and even Gates are very close to what you are saying in several of your comments. Even to the tune of possibly spinning off Xbox as sort of a standalone dedicated Windows 8 Box (SteamBox?). I don't think Gates was just "supporting Satya" with those quotes. And if he was...it means Satya wants to spin off Xbox and focus on the unified Windows gaming platform you explained. There is smoke behind those XBox rumors IMO. And it may even be a fire. Otherwise the hyper secretive Gates wouldn't have said anything.
barrelbelly is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 138 Old 05-06-2014, 06:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post


BD2003:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/06/bill-gates-would-support-xbox-spin-off-microsoft-responds

It seems like Satya and even Gates are very close to what you are saying in several of your comments. Even to the tune of possibly spinning off Xbox as sort of a standalone dedicated Windows 8 Box (SteamBox?). I don't think Gates was just "supporting Satya" with those quotes. And if he was...it means Satya wants to spin off Xbox and focus on the unified Windows gaming platform you explained. There is smoke behind those XBox rumors IMO. And it may even be a fire. Otherwise the hyper secretive Gates wouldn't have said anything.

 

I've been 100% certain this is where they're headed for some time now.  Every thing they say only confirms it more.

 

"Microsoft is committed to gaming across multiple platforms with Xbox as the centerpiece of our gaming strategy. We remain committed to Xbox and the millions of Xbox fans around the world."

 

For a while now they've been emphasizing "Xbox", and not "Xbox One", or "the Xbox". Almost to the exclusion of even mentioning the one. "Xbox" is about to become a much bigger thing than a single console. 

barrelbelly likes this.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #123 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 12:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I've been 100% certain this is where they're headed for some time now.  Every thing they say only confirms it more.

"Microsoft is committed to gaming across multiple platforms with Xbox as the centerpiece of our gaming strategy. We remain committed to Xbox and the millions of Xbox fans around the world."

For a while now they've been emphasizing "Xbox", and not "Xbox One", or "the Xbox". Almost to the exclusion of even mentioning the one. "Xbox" is about to become a much bigger thing than a single console. 

Yep, like we've been talking about. Xbox is moving away from being a console and being a platform. There will still be an Xbox system for those that are comfortable with that dynamic but when you have universal apps that work across platforms and play to the advantages of each? It's a pretty compelling future. This is MS though and it could still blow up in their face but so far they seem to be moving in that direction and don't show signs of slowing down. Having a CEO with vision seems to have accelerated this vision now because there's less uncertainty about what to do. Teams can commit now and you'll see it unfold over the next few years. If they can do what they're wanting to do it'll be really interesting to see how Sony reacts.
barrelbelly likes this.
pcweber111 is offline  
post #124 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 12:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Yep, like we've been talking about. Xbox is moving away from being a console and being a platform. There will still be an Xbox system for those that are comfortable with that dynamic but when you have universal apps that work across platforms and play to the advantages of each? It's a pretty compelling future. This is MS though and it could still blow up in their face but so far they seem to be moving in that direction and don't show signs of slowing down. Having a CEO with vision seems to have accelerated this vision now because there's less uncertainty about what to do. Teams can commit now and you'll see it unfold over the next few years. If they can do what they're wanting to do it'll be really interesting to see how Sony reacts.

I don't see how they can react, with the PS4 at least. They don't have an OS to merge it with.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #125 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 12:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I don't see how they can react, with the PS4 at least. They don't have an OS to merge it with.

I think Sony would have to get closer to Google and somehow try to merge the Android ecosystem into their own. It's the only way I could see them keeping up. I'd be interested in the Playstation as a platform with a buy once play anywhere approach with not just Sony systems but Android tablets and even Chrome books. It's at least a plausible idea but it'd take them giving quite a bit of control to Google and I'm not sure as a company they can make that kind of choice.
pcweber111 is offline  
post #126 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 12:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
totalownership's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

I think Sony would have to get closer to Google and somehow try to merge the Android ecosystem into their own. It's the only way I could see them keeping up. I'd be interested in the Playstation as a platform with a buy once play anywhere approach with not just Sony systems but Android tablets and even Chrome books. It's at least a plausible idea but it'd take them giving quite a bit of control to Google and I'm not sure as a company they can make that kind of choice.
The only way it goes down is if Playstation gets spun off. At that point the future is unclear ...

AT HAMMOND ROBOTICS WE'RE BRINGING THE FUTURE ... HOME
totalownership is online now  
post #127 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 12:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

The only way it goes down is if Playstation gets spun off. At that point the future is unclear ...

Well just like MS there have been rumblings of those wanting Sony to spin off their games division. I can't see them doing it right now but I can see them taking a half way approach and extending the brand beyond just their hardware. They keep the brand internal but make the brand a platform and allow others to develop and release to it, keeping to certain guidelines. I think we're nearing the end of days where a company has a purely closed game platform. They could still make a Playstation console as a base platform and let others build off certain aspects of it (indie games being playable on PS approved devices). Maybe it's too difficult to do this. Who knows. MS and Sony see the writing on the wall, you know they have to.
pcweber111 is offline  
post #128 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 01:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

I think Sony would have to get closer to Google and somehow try to merge the Android ecosystem into their own. It's the only way I could see them keeping up. I'd be interested in the Playstation as a platform with a buy once play anywhere approach with not just Sony systems but Android tablets and even Chrome books. It's at least a plausible idea but it'd take them giving quite a bit of control to Google and I'm not sure as a company they can make that kind of choice.

They'd prob be better off moving towards Linux instead of android. Then they could at least piggyback off of all the SteamOS work, and have a reasonably easy transition since Linux already supports x86 and OpenGL.

It's prob too much to ask for the PS4, but I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 was a Linux box with a Sony storefront by default.

Think about how awesome that would be for consumers....you could have one box that dual boots windows and linux, and can run everything. No more need for ten consoles under your TV, and everyone can play with everyone.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #129 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 04:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
tsaville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They'd prob be better off moving towards Linux instead of android. Then they could at least piggyback off of all the SteamOS work, and have a reasonably easy transition since Linux already supports x86 and OpenGL.

It's prob too much to ask for the PS4, but I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 was a Linux box with a Sony storefront by default.

Think about how awesome that would be for consumers....you could have one box that dual boots windows and linux, and can run everything. No more need for ten consoles under your TV, and everyone can play with everyone.

I think you guys are looking at this from the perspective of a tech geek, rather than an average consumer. Consoles are popular because they are simple to use and don't require the maintenance of a PC. I don't think a dual boot Linux/Windows box falls under that category.

Hell, even my 70 year old mother can handle using the PS3 for Netflix/media purposes. As a frame of reference, she struggles with copy/paste on a PC. biggrin.gif
mboojigga likes this.
tsaville is offline  
post #130 of 138 Old 05-07-2014, 07:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post


I think you guys are looking at this from the perspective of a tech geek, rather than an average consumer. Consoles are popular because they are simple to use and don't require the maintenance of a PC. I don't think a dual boot Linux/Windows box falls under that category.

Hell, even my 70 year old mother can handle using the PS3 for Netflix/media purposes. As a frame of reference, she struggles with copy/paste on a PC. biggrin.gif

 

Dual boot, sure, that's advanced stuff. But don't underestimate people. I know lots of console gamers that I'd hardly consider tech geeks that recently got into PC gaming and they're loving it. None of them have called me for tech support even a single time, and they're dealing with the windows desktop as the interface for their new "console". PCs don't require much maintenance nowadays, and there isn't much difference on the surface between an xbox one and a PC anymore anyway beyond the UI, and even less difference under the hood. If MS does it right, no one should ever even have to see the desktop. Porting over the xbox interface isn't a huge stretch.    


Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #131 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 05:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
newfmp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NFLD, Canada
Posts: 3,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 114
All the idea's and speculation in this thread is really nothing new. I remember when the original Xbox came out, the same idea's were being tossed around about Windows and Xbox sharing the same games and whatnot. I'm not saying I don't want to see it happen because I would love nothing more then to play my Xbox exclusives on a PC with bumped up specs. I'd love to not need a xbox console at all, and do everything the console can do on the PC. But it HAS to be all or nothing. And that's where I see this failing. For this to work this generation your talking about jumping over a lot of hurdles really really quick. I just got my doubts that this "vision" is going to happen at all. I'm thinking we'll see a few games here and there that work on both PC/Console, but really it won't be until next gen that this idea (if it works at all) will be fully implemented.

Pc's are getting easier to use. And kids today are growing up with tech vs in the 90's when PC gaming was at its highest the only real PC gamers were die hard geeks/gamers. But PC gaming has an image problem. It's too hard, crashes, expensive, can't be used in the living room, etc. Now I am a PC gamer first and foremost, so I know the difference, but the average joe certainly doesn't. Yeah they continue to use their small xbox ones, but I'm just saying that there are some really large hurdles to overcome in order for this to be succesful. both technical and image related. These days, image is everything, just look at Apple, and in contrast look at Microsoft. It really doesn't matter if the quality/product is top notch anymore and Apple is proof of that as they can do nothing wrong when in fact they are worse then MS ever was on so many levels.

If they are going to make a real attempt at doing this, now is the time to do it. Before Steam gets their boxes out there or at least before they get any traction with users.
newfmp3 is offline  
post #132 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 05:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
I think you're underestimating how many of those hurdles have already been jumped. I agree there's def an image issue, and a UI issue, but the technical issues are already solved.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #133 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
newfmp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NFLD, Canada
Posts: 3,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 114
And I think you are VERY optimistic smile.gif
newfmp3 is offline  
post #134 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 05:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bailey151's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

............It seems like Satya and even Gates are very close to what you are saying in several of your comments. Even to the tune of possibly spinning off Xbox as sort of a standalone dedicated Windows 8 Box (SteamBox?). I don't think Gates was just "supporting Satya" with those quotes.
Guess you missed the other half, the part where Gates clarified that he in no way meant spinning off Xbox. Really there's no real point to it, makes no sense. Why spin off one of your "ecosystem" platforms? Full conversion to a branded WinPC? Sure, but spin off? Gets you nothing & you lose the ecosystem introduction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

The only way it goes down is if Playstation gets spun off. At that point the future is unclear ...
biggrin.gif That makes even less sense, Sony spin off their only profitable division? Suicidal. How would you name the companies? Playstation Inc & the other Bankrupt Inc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

I think you guys are looking at this from the perspective of a tech geek, rather than an average consumer. Consoles are popular because they are simple to use and don't require the maintenance of a PC. I don't think a dual boot Linux/Windows box falls under that category.

Hell, even my 70 year old mother can handle using the PS3 for Netflix/media purposes. As a frame of reference, she struggles with copy/paste on a PC. biggrin.gif
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Dual boot, sure, that's advanced stuff. But don't underestimate people. I know lots of console gamers that I'd hardly consider tech geeks that recently got into PC gaming and they're loving it. None of them have called me for tech support even a single time, and they're dealing with the windows desktop as the interface for their new "console". PCs don't require much maintenance nowadays, and there isn't much difference on the surface between an xbox one and a PC anymore anyway beyond the UI, and even less difference under the hood. If MS does it right, no one should ever even have to see the desktop. Porting over the xbox interface isn't a huge stretch.
I'd say the reverse - don't over estimate people. I work at a University & the supposedly "tech savvy" generations are tech morons. Give them much of anything past the playskool iOS interface & they're completely stumped. You'd be astounded how far things have to be dumbed down to function. Works fine for the enthusiast crowd, general population? Nah, not so much.............but........a standard PC with XYZ level of hardware? A hardware level specified on a "per generation" basis? Walk into a store & buy ABC box that runs the Win w/ Xbox Live? That woud work, as long as it's locked down like Live - no more aimbot crap.

To get back on topic - go to youtube, search for oculus rift & roller coaster. You'll get to see both the cool & the "um, Houston we have a problem" (aka motion issues). Folks banging into walls won't work at home biggrin.gif (personally I hope they work this stuff out - looks cool & I don't get motion sickness)

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Bailey151 is offline  
post #135 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 06:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey151 View Post

Guess you missed the other half, the part where Gates clarified that he in no way meant spinning off Xbox. Really there's no real point to it, makes no sense. Why spin off one of your "ecosystem" platforms? Full conversion to a branded WinPC? Sure, but spin off? Gets you nothing & you lose the ecosystem introduction.
biggrin.gif That makes even less sense, Sony spin off their only profitable division? Suicidal. How would you name the companies? Playstation Inc & the other Bankrupt Inc?
Yep.
I'd say the reverse - don't over estimate people. I work at a University & the supposedly "tech savvy" generations are tech morons. Give them much of anything past the playskool iOS interface & they're completely stumped. You'd be astounded how far things have to be dumbed down to function. Works fine for the enthusiast crowd, general population? Nah, not so much.............but........a standard PC with XYZ level of hardware? A hardware level specified on a "per generation" basis? Walk into a store & buy ABC box that runs the Win w/ Xbox Live? That woud work, as long as it's locked down like Live - no more aimbot crap.

To get back on topic - go to youtube, search for oculus rift & roller coaster. You'll get to see both the cool & the "um, Houston we have a problem" (aka motion issues). Folks banging into walls won't work at home biggrin.gif (personally I hope they work this stuff out - looks cool & I don't get motion sickness)

I'd expect some sort of certification program with a logo that says "Xbox ready" or something like that to ensure it at least matches a minimum spec. But it won't be a separate version of windows.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #136 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey151 View Post

Guess you missed the other half, the part where Gates clarified that he in no way meant spinning off Xbox. Really there's no real point to it, makes no sense. Why spin off one of your "ecosystem" platforms? Full conversion to a branded WinPC? Sure, but spin off? Gets you nothing & you lose the ecosystem introduction.

Guess you missed the entire point of the article and the point I was making. biggrin.gif And that is Bill Gates didn't have to utter a single word. He rarely does unscripted in public. And the main point was him stating strong support for Satya...in whatever strategic path he wants to take. All of your bombast and bluster aside. If it is in Microsoft's best interest to exit the console hardware business. Satya will likely do it. And gates will support. it. You may think it is a dumb thing to do. But obviously some MS insiders...including the new CEO think otherwise. "Spinning off Xbox" doesn't mean the same as exiting the Xbox hardware business. If you don't or can't understand this simple point...I highly recommend you re-read BD2003 excellent post #122 above. Still don't get it? Read it again a tad louder. biggrin.gif Look dude...I know lot of this is just your style. To argue and provoke argument for the sake of argument. But no one is saying or even suggesting MS is going to completely abandon the Xbox business. What all of us who follow this path of development are suggesting (all the way back to the old thread) is that MS will probably use XBox to strengthen the total Windows platform and other MS products & strategies. And vice versa. I personally can't see what is so hard to understand about this. Especially since MS is shouting the same position out to the market at the top its lungs these days. And even the elusive Bill Gates gave a very rare shout out of support. So nope...I read all of it. Didn't miss a word. I just understood all of it...including nuance that I have observed in many top level occasions like this. wink.gif
barrelbelly is online now  
post #137 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bailey151's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'd expect some sort of certification program with a logo that says "Xbox ready" or something like that to ensure it at least matches a minimum spec. But it won't be a separate version of windows.
Yep, that's what I'd expect.

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Bailey151 is offline  
post #138 of 138 Old 05-08-2014, 10:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 1355
I just hope they're coming into this as a competitor. There's a version of this vision that I'm really excited for, and then there's the version where they f it all up like GFW live. Steam is so far ahead of them right now, they need to think about what users want, not fantasize about a long lost monopoly.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
Reply Xbox Area

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off