XBOX One Blu-Ray HD Audio? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

Is there any documentation as to what the XBOX One does with HD audio including DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD and Even Dolby+ ?

The only options appear to be selecting uncompressed 7.1 or 5.1. However, what is unknown is if you playback a blu-ray is it using the lossless audio and mixing in secondary sound or is it using the embedded dolby digital track or DTS core? If it is the latter clearly the XBOX One can't be used as a true replacement for a blu-ray player.

Also, when you select uncompressed 7.1 it seems to take 5.1 sources and output them as 7.1 - is it simply passing along blank channels?

I hope Microsoft realizes that the current setup is not ideal for a device that is intended to replace all others in an AV rack and sees fit to at least add the option to bitstream HD audio in the blu-ray player app.
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post #2 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 08:43 AM
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I posted something similar here...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1501764/denon-1911-xbox-one-ps4-etc-only-get-pcm-audio#post_23998157

I was able to get my PS4 to use True HD on the receiver. But from what people were saying in that thread uncompressed 5.1 would be the best possible audio. And Multi In is the same as True HD as the console is doing the decoding. Doesn't seem right to me.
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post #3 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 09:01 AM
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Its for this reason I ended up keeping my standalone BD player in my system. XB1 is nice system but its far from being ready to be the "ONE". smile.gif
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post #4 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Its for this reason I ended up keeping my standalone BD player in my system. XB1 is nice system but its far from being ready to be the "ONE". smile.gif

You know that all-in-one system have to make compromise and that it will never be as good as any dedicated player. Its the convenience aspect that makes its interesting.
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post #5 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 10:17 AM
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I remember on PS3 you could set Bitstreaming for movies, whether its DVD or Bluray, but for games you would still get uncompressed 7.1 PCM audio. Isn't something similar available on Xbox One in audio output setting? I'm still waiting on mine to arrive and have high expectations for Bluray playback.
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post #6 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 10:24 AM
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The sound quality should be the same if it is uncompressed. I remember buying a Denon receiver 6 years ago that was able to decode HD sound and all that was showing up on the screen when I connected my fat PS3 was "PCM." I found a thread on this website that explained that PCM is uncompressed and that my receiver was actually playing the HD audo . It wasn't until I bought a slim PS3 that I had the option of sending my audio as Bitstream, which for some reason made my receiver display the HD audio badge. I tested both and could not tell a difference, but I did feel better seeing the HD logo pop up since I paid a premium buying a receiver that could handle the better audio.

Long story short, I feel the same thing is happening with Xbox One. If you have it hooked up with HDMI and PCM is showing up on your receiver, you are still receiving HD audio. I played ARGO this weekend and my pioneer receiver was displaying PCM and I could not tell a difference.

If you are using an optical cable, then that is a different story until the send an update.
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post #7 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symtex View Post

You know that all-in-one system have to make compromise and that it will never be as good as any dedicated player. Its the convenience aspect that makes its interesting.

Yeah...... I never expected the XB1 to replace something like a Harmony. Technically I can see how it could but MS would have to devote time to something that majority of its customer base has no need for or most likely no clue about.

My GF told me today that her sister got a XB1 for their family. TV with output to soundbar, Cable box and XB1 is the limit of their setup and XB1"integration" is working like charm for them smile.gif
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post #8 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcolts View Post

The sound quality should be the same if it is uncompressed. I remember buying a Denon receiver 6 years ago that was able to decode HD sound and all that was showing up on the screen when I connected my fat PS3 was "PCM." I found a thread on this website that explained that PCM is uncompressed and that my receiver was actually playing the HD audo . It wasn't until I bought a slim PS3 that I had the option of sending my audio as Bitstream, which for some reason made my receiver display the HD audio badge. I tested both and could not tell a difference, but I did feel better seeing the HD logo pop up since I paid a premium buying a receiver that could handle the better audio.

Long story short, I feel the same thing is happening with Xbox One. If you have it hooked up with HDMI and PCM is showing up on your receiver, you are still receiving HD audio. I played ARGO this weekend and my pioneer receiver was displaying PCM and I could not tell a difference.

If you are using an optical cable, then that is a different story until the send an update.

I have not had much time to spend yet with watching BD movies on the XB1.

But for games.......its odd and maybe its just me but setting the XB1 to DTS seems to produce all around better sounds from games than leaving it on PCM,
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post #9 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 11:20 AM
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Correct - the Xbox One is simply doing the blu-ray lossless audio decoding and it therefore indicates 'multichannel in' on my Denon receiver. If the receiver was doing the decoding (sent via bitstream by the Xbox) it would indicate Dolby True HD (or dts Master Audio). The sound quality is the same, the only difference is which unit is actually performing the decoding.
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post #10 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott_lb View Post

Correct - the Xbox One is simply doing the blu-ray lossless audio decoding and it therefore indicates 'multichannel in' on my Denon receiver. If the receiver was doing the decoding (sent via bitstream by the Xbox) it would indicate Dolby True HD (or dts Master Audio). The sound quality is the same, the only difference is which unit is actually performing the decoding.

But the problem still with the XBOne is that if you have it set for 7.1 pcm output and you play a BD with a 5.1 track, you will have two dead channels if you don't switch the XBOne output to 5.1.

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post #11 of 143 Old 11-26-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

But the problem still with the XBOne is that if you have it set for 7.1 pcm output and you play a BD with a 5.1 track, you will have two dead channels if you don't switch the XBOne output to 5.1.

Yes, the dead channels issue is clearly the most signifcant problem. As well, there is no confirmation that I have seen that clearly indicates that it decodes the lossless track. PCM is an uncompressed format but it isn't clear whether for example we are getting DTS core decoded to PCM or DTS-HD decoded to PCM. In either case, they at the very least have to pass along the correct number of channels to enable an AVR to apply post processing like DPLIIx.

I can live with the Xbox One doing the decoding as long as it decodes the correct number of channels and it's actually decoding the HD audio and not the core lossy track to PCM. From a practical standpoint decoding to PCM is likely necessary to enable seamless integration with other activities on the Xbox One.
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post #12 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 08:35 AM
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Hey guys/gals. Here is what i have found with my setup:
1 the uncompressed on xbox one sucks - put in the new star trek on bluray - no 7.1 audio even when set to 7.1 uncompressed
2 there is a dts digital surround codec which is fine but no DTS HD MASTER AUDIO
3 no dolby at all - dolby digital, dolby digital and specifically not DOLBY TRUE HD
4 when i think of next gen and dont get me wrong i am an xbox fanboy but dont try to sell me this as the "ONE" unit i need for entertainment
5 where are the game demos on xbox one? I want to try a game and if i like it i might actually buy the download instead of having to go to the store (like how microsoft want me to not have a physical copy)
5a how about this idea: charge me $10 for a game rental (of a major release-not arcade) for 3 days and if i would like to purchase it after my 72 hour rental is up let me do so for $50 since i already invested $10. This could do wonders even for microsofts bottom line
6 i know streaming movies is the future, but the quality is so bad even when you stream hd compared to a bluray - so tel me why i need netflix, vudu, xbox video and redbox instant all designed to steal money from me for a less the standard quality hd video service

7 MICROSOFT NEEDS TO STOP TREATING PEOPLE LIKE THEY ARE A CABLE COMPANY AND SAYING YOU NEED THIS AND THIS BUT NOT THIS OR THIS. THE ONLY APPS I HAVE SEEN ON THE XBOX ONE ARE DESIGNED TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET. WHERE ARE THE FREE APPS WE ALL ENJOY LIKE TWITTER, FACEBOOK, IMDB, IHEART RADIO AND SHOPPING APPS LIKE BEST BUY AND AMAZON? There is youtube which is cool and crackle (a very tiny amount of programming- but free none the less) i can get any of these options they have bundled into the xbox one on any smart tv or smart bluray player.

8 the graphics are pretty good. I know much has been made out of the 1080p vs 720p but it is really not an issue. The graphics are beautiful and i have not spotted any difference in the ps4 over the xbox one. Games look great on both. There is a definite upgrade from cod ghost on xbox 360 to the xbox one.
9 the kinect works great as long as your are talking to the xbox one in the way it was designed- there is a list of simple commands you should get to know on the internet
10 just give me the audio formats i want like dolby true hd and dts hd master audio

Those were my 10 thoughts on the xbox one and how to make it better. I know all of this stuff can and will be fixed in the future, next time maybe they should release a system that is finished. Stop relying on the internet for your inadequate development process.

RICHW23
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post #13 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

Yes, the dead channels issue is clearly the most signifcant problem. As well, there is no confirmation that I have seen that clearly indicates that it decodes the lossless track. PCM is an uncompressed format but it isn't clear whether for example we are getting DTS core decoded to PCM or DTS-HD decoded to PCM. In either case, they at the very least have to pass along the correct number of channels to enable an AVR to apply post processing like DPLIIx.

I can live with the Xbox One doing the decoding as long as it decodes the correct number of channels and it's actually decoding the HD audio and not the core lossy track to PCM. From a practical standpoint decoding to PCM is likely necessary to enable seamless integration with other activities on the Xbox One.
there is no 7.1 core. To get 7.1 it has to use the hd audio. And when I tried my Man of Steel BD I got audio from all channels. If it had been playing the lossy 5.1 I would have had two dead channels.

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post #14 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by richw23 View Post

Hey guys/gals. Here is what i have found with my setup:
1 the uncompressed on xbox one sucks - put in the new star trek on bluray - no 7.1 audio even when set to 7.1 uncompressed
2 there is a dts digital surround codec which is fine but no DTS HD MASTER AUDIO
3 no dolby at all - dolby digital, dolby digital and specifically not DOLBY TRUE HD
4 when i think of next gen and dont get me wrong i am an xbox fanboy but dont try to sell me this as the "ONE" unit i need for entertainment
5 where are the game demos on xbox one? I want to try a game and if i like it i might actually buy the download instead of having to go to the store (like how microsoft want me to not have a physical copy)
5a how about this idea: charge me $10 for a game rental (of a major release-not arcade) for 3 days and if i would like to purchase it after my 72 hour rental is up let me do so for $50 since i already invested $10. This could do wonders even for microsofts bottom line
6 i know streaming movies is the future, but the quality is so bad even when you stream hd compared to a bluray - so tel me why i need netflix, vudu, xbox video and redbox instant all designed to steal money from me for a less the standard quality hd video service

7 MICROSOFT NEEDS TO STOP TREATING PEOPLE LIKE THEY ARE A CABLE COMPANY AND SAYING YOU NEED THIS AND THIS BUT NOT THIS OR THIS. THE ONLY APPS I HAVE SEEN ON THE XBOX ONE ARE DESIGNED TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET. WHERE ARE THE FREE APPS WE ALL ENJOY LIKE TWITTER, FACEBOOK, IMDB, IHEART RADIO AND SHOPPING APPS LIKE BEST BUY AND AMAZON? There is youtube which is cool and crackle (a very tiny amount of programming- but free none the less) i can get any of these options they have bundled into the xbox one on any smart tv or smart bluray player.

8 the graphics are pretty good. I know much has been made out of the 1080p vs 720p but it is really not an issue. The graphics are beautiful and i have not spotted any difference in the ps4 over the xbox one. Games look great on both. There is a definite upgrade from cod ghost on xbox 360 to the xbox one.
9 the kinect works great as long as your are talking to the xbox one in the way it was designed- there is a list of simple commands you should get to know on the internet
10 just give me the audio formats i want like dolby true hd and dts hd master audio

Those were my 10 thoughts on the xbox one and how to make it better. I know all of this stuff can and will be fixed in the future, next time maybe they should release a system that is finished. Stop relying on the internet for your inadequate development process.

RICHW23

There is no need to bitstream the DTS-HD MA as long as it decodes it properly and sends it as multichannel pcm. Besides to mix in it's own audio it can't bitstream unless it were to decode, mix in the audio, and then re-encode. And that is the last thing I would want the XBOne to do. Once the audio is decoded I want it to stay in pcm.

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post #15 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 12:18 PM
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It makes perfect sense to bitstream high definition audio from DVD / Bluray sources. I don't want the X1 decoding Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA. What do we have all have AV receivers for? They ought to figure out how to integrate it with audio notifications from console OS. I'd be willing to sacrifice those sounds in order to have pure audio passed and decoded by my receiver. Make it happen Microsoft!
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post #16 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highd3f View Post

It makes perfect sense to bitstream high definition audio from DVD / Bluray sources. I don't want the X1 decoding Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA. What do we have all have AV receivers for? They ought to figure out how to integrate it with audio notifications from console OS. I'd be willing to sacrifice those sounds in order to have pure audio passed and decoded by my receiver. Make it happen Microsoft!

The only way to integrate it is to decode the audio and mix the audio in. Then you either re-encode it or send it out as PCM. SO the best option for that is to send it as pcm since re-encoding to a lossless format makes no sense. But whether it's bitstreamed or decoded the result should be the same. We went through this back in 2006 when HD DVD and BD was launched since they also decoded the HD audio, mixed the audio in and sent it out as multi channel PCM.

I can see them offering more options in the future, but first MS needs to get the audio straightened out so that the output channels dynamically change with the input. The way it is supposed to be.

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post #17 of 143 Old 11-30-2013, 06:21 PM
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I just checked my Monsters BD. 7.1 audio is working on that with the XBOne. Although at first I didn't hear anything from the back surround speakers, but at the time there was no audio in the scene for those speakers. I could find my Star Trek BD. Maybe I only rented it. i guess this weekend is a good time to get it while it's only $8.

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post #18 of 143 Old 12-02-2013, 08:52 AM
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Are there any official post from MS confirming that XB1 decodes TrueHD and DTS-MA? I'm okay with XB1 handling decoding, as long as it's actually using the HD soundtracks.

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post #19 of 143 Old 12-02-2013, 09:49 PM
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You can see which track is playing from the info screen. I think you press down on one of the sticks to show it. It shows the video codec, bitrate, audio codec, etc.

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post #20 of 143 Old 12-02-2013, 11:10 PM
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Thanks. DTS-MA just shows "DTS-HD," but it does appear that the HD Audio decoding is happening in the XB1.

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post #21 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

But the problem still with the XBOne is that if you have it set for 7.1 pcm output and you play a BD with a 5.1 track, you will have two dead channels if you don't switch the XBOne output to 5.1.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between 2 dead channels and no audio coming out?
If the stream is 5.1, the 2 other rears just get no audio whether 7.1 or 5.1 is selected.
Right?
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post #22 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 12:04 PM
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I think, on most AVRs, if 5.1 PCM comes in, it is matrixed to all 7.1 speakers. If 7.1 comes in, with two channels silent, those two channels remain silent.

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post #23 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 12:54 PM
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I think, on most AVRs, if 5.1 PCM comes in, it is matrixed to all 7.1 speakers. If 7.1 comes in, with two channels silent, those two channels remain silent.

Yes.

I apply dobly Prologic IIx to everything except music(for music I use DTS NEO) But the Prologic IIx takes 2.0 to 6.1 and creates a 7.1 soundfield. I've been using 7.1 receivers for twelve years and having two dead channels in the rear makes a huge difference in sound..

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post #24 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 12:55 PM
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Ok, that makes sense.
I'd rather have those speakers silent, unless it actually matrixes (sp?) instead of duping the channel.
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post #25 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 12:56 PM
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Ok, that makes sense.
I'd rather have those speakers silent, unless it actually matrixes (sp?) instead of duping the channel.

prologic IIx creates a discrete sounding 7.1 environment. So those two extra channels are not necessarily identical.

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post #26 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 01:13 PM
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I've tried all combos and for now I will be sticking with my standalone BD player for BluRay watching.

I understand that XB1 PCM -> AVR should be the same but its just not. BluRays sound way better from my BD player to the AVR.
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post #27 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 02:40 PM
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The audio level of pcm out is lower from the XBOne. I just turn the volume up to compensate.

I need to pull out some of my high resolution audio BDs from storage to try on my XBOne.

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post #28 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 04:26 PM
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The biggest issue with the XB1 as a bluray player, right now, appears to be the audio sync. It's pretty far off of the sync I need to have my TV signal through the XB1 line up. Even though I am looking for an excuse to buy an Oppo 103, it would be much easier if one device could handle everything. We'll see.

I haven't had a chance to test this at high volumes yet. If it's much quieter than bitstream, that could also be a problem for me also, since I normally played bitstream from my PS3 at +0DB, when I was watching movies without my wife and kids, that is. Unfortunately, my PS3 lens is now shot, so I need to have some new player that's up to the task.

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post #29 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 05:09 PM
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I found one of my 96Khz discs. Chronos. It has a 24 bit, 96Khz, DTS-HD MA track. When I play it through the XBOne the PCM output is still 48Khz. So it isn't passing the high resolution audio through. I guess there is no point trying to find the two discs I have with 192Khz audio. I doubt they will even mess with this because not many people even have any BDs with high resolution audio. But I guess you never know. Although if they even have this on their to do list, I would think it's at the bottom.

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post #30 of 143 Old 12-03-2013, 05:52 PM
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I need to do some further audio testing. I just verified that when playing 5.1 content with the output set for 7.1, that the surround channels are coming out of the back surround speakers instead. So the right surround comes out of the back surround speaker and the the left surround is coming out of the left back speaker. On my other devices it plays it correctly. But not from the XBOne. I need to check out some 7.1 test signals to see if it is just a mapping issue from 5.1 to 7.1. I guess I should also change the output to 5.1 to see if it has the same issue.

EDIT: It has the same issue when the output is set for 5.1

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