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post #181 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

Does anybody remember the 8/16-bit days when it would drop down to like 1 FPS when there was a lot of action on-screen at once? I used to call it "the freezes."

Anyhow, I downloaded the X1 version of Tomb Raider. I'll post my impressions when I get a chance to play it.

 

The main thing I remember about the 8/16-bit days were that 99% of games were 60fps with zero drops,


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post #182 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The main thing I remember about the 8/16-bit days were that 99% of games were 60fps with zero drops,

Then I think you have a cloudy memory. biggrin.gif It probably depends on the types of games you played. I played a lot of overhead and side-scrolling shooters (1943, R-Type, Ikari Warriors, etc) where a ton of enemies on screen was common. It would slow down to the point where you could see individual bullets crawling across the screen.
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post #183 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 01:47 PM
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You know the thing that's really sad and ironic about all this 1080/60 talk, it's really gonna hurt PS4 users in the long run. NO developer is going to sacrifice 1080/60 for great visuals and effects after reading all this non-sense. In the PC realm many people have down-res their settings to be able to get more of the visuals and effects in the game. It's nothing new there. I've done it myself while triple-screening with my old gfx card sometimes. I don't mind at all if the xbox does 720 but with great visuals and I feel the time will come. If people think that this is all the xbox is capable of then they really must be nuts. I don't know any console that could only do what the launch titles did and NEVER advance over it's lifetime. Hell , even Atari 2600 started one way and ended another. When Activision got their hands on the hardware their games were looking lightyears ahead of Atari's own games. The games will evolve.

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post #184 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 01:56 PM
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Having both systems since initial release and playing several games on both, I can tell a noticeable superiority with the PS4, just as I could with the 360 over the PS3.

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post #185 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

If their vision was so compelling, we'd have seen something game changing already, like with Wii sports. Kinect is a 4 year old tech now I think? We've already seen what it's capable of from a gaming perspective.

I agree. We've seen what the kinnect is capable of.

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post #186 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ewmiller View Post

Having both systems since initial release and playing several games on both, I can tell a noticeable superiority with the PS4, just as I could with the 360 over the PS3.

I was always a 360 gamer over the ps3, but with next gen I went ps4 because just like you I noticed the difference in the next gen games. Many will deny this and I don't know why, but in all honesty I just wanted the console that played the multiplatform games better and so far the ps4 has the edge. I guess to me this is important.

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post #187 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 03:43 PM
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Exactly. I'm 38 years old and not a fanboy of anything. I simply desire the best experience. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'll enjoy both systems but from the time I've spent so far, I've been very disappointed in the Xbone. I guess because of my beloved 360 I had some expectations for the One. It's failed on everything I expected out of it though.

Time will tell. Hopefully the exclusives will be good. Worried about Gears of War.

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post #188 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Artman22 View Post

I was always a 360 gamer over the ps3, but with next gen I went ps4 because just like you I noticed the difference in the next gen games. Many will deny this and I don't know why, but in all honesty I just wanted the console that played the multiplatform games better and so far the ps4 has the edge. I guess to me this is important.
I chose the Xbox because it had the exclusives that excited me out the gate, and also because that is where my friends will be. I will get a ps4 too, just because they will eventually have some good exclusives too.

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post #189 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Artman22 View Post

I was always a 360 gamer over the ps3, but with next gen I went ps4 because just like you I noticed the difference in the next gen games. Many will deny this and I don't know why, but in all honesty I just wanted the console that played the multiplatform games better and so far the ps4 has the edge. I guess to me this is important.
And see that's where I differ. Most the games that I care about are either One exclusives OR something that if I really cared about I could play on my PC with resolutions, details and FPS that would crush the PS4. The only thing that PS4 has an edge on , for me, would be the sports titles and honestly NBA 2K and Madden are not anywhere near worth choosing over the features that Xbox One brings for me. I honestly would be disappointed right now with the PS4 because of the things it doesn't do that the One does. Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing exclusive on the PS4 that I care the slightest bit about. I can't force myself to like a game just because others say it's great and will look good but I know will bore me to tears all the while I'm sitting there wondering how much fun guys are having playing the games I REALLY care about on the other console. I'd be a fool.
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If their vision was so compelling, we'd have seen something game changing already, like with Wii sports. Kinect is a 4 year old tech now I think? We've already seen what it's capable of from a gaming perspective.


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I agree. We've seen what the kinnect is capable of.

The OLD Kinect is 4 year old tech. The NEW Kinect has been out a couple of months now. I think it's foolish to think we've seen all of what it's capable of. Same with the console itself, to think we've seen all of what it can do is beyond foolish.
How can we see "all it can do" when devs are saying they'll have to learn more about it. It's clear we're getting slightly optimized ports and nothing more.

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post #190 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 04:09 PM
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I played Tomb Raider on Xbox One for about an hour, and I only noticed a framerate stutter once (during a cutscene). Overall, I think the visual presentation is excellent, and I would put it on par with Ryse as the best-looking games currently on Xbox One. The audio also sounds great on my 5.2 setup. Good bass and excellent use of surround channels. Definitely the best in-game audio I've heard so far on either console.

Obviously I have no comparison to the PS4 version (still hoping for a demo at some point), but the low framerate isn't quite the catastrophe that some make it out to be. I'm not sure I've ever played a Tomb Raider game before, and I'm enjoying it so far.

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is the first game where I've actually used the Kinect features. Switching weapons with voice commands works well, and rotating the relics with your hand (although a bit gimmicky) was pretty cool.
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post #191 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 04:56 PM
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A quick question to XBO players, do you see noticable drops or stutter when going to a new area? This was the primary time I noticed frame drops on the PS4 (similar to the 18fps drop in the DF comparison) it seems the engine has issues streaming new data.

The true comparison for framerate should be in Shanty Town, it is easily the most unstable area in the game, once cleared of enemies it would be easy to do 100% like for like comparison.

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post #192 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

The OLD Kinect is 4 year old tech. The NEW Kinect has been out a couple of months now. I think it's foolish to think we've seen all of what it's capable of. Same with the console itself, to think we've seen all of what it can do is beyond foolish.
How can we see "all it can do" when devs are saying they'll have to learn more about it. It's clear we're getting slightly optimized ports and nothing more.

 

It's just an refined version of the 4 old tech, similar to wii motion plus or PS move vs the original wii mote. We saw what they were capable of on day one, which was basically not much more than a slightly less iffy version of the same old ideas. Even if it does it a little better, it doesn't matter, kinect 2 isnt going to fundamentally change anything. 


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post #193 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

It's just an refined version of the 4 old tech, similar to wii motion plus or PS move vs the original wii mote. We saw what they were capable of on day one, which was basically not much more than a slightly less iffy version of the same old ideas. Even if it does it a little better, it doesn't matter, kinect 2 isnt going to fundamentally change anything. 

This is exactly how I feel and the sad thing is that I've heard some guys say the Xbox one is the better console because it has the kinnect that's integrated with the tv features. To each their own, but I think playing games should be priority of Gaming consoles. I'm not saying that having these features is a bad thing, but I don't see how it's changing Or enhancing the gaming experience. And to me if the Xbox one can't run most games in 1080p/60fps in 2014 than there's a problem. In the long term the exclusives are the most important, but these things need to be addressed.
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post #194 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

It's just an refined version of the 4 old tech, similar to wii motion plus or PS move vs the original wii mote. We saw what they were capable of on day one, which was basically not much more than a slightly less iffy version of the same old ideas. Even if it does it a little better, it doesn't matter, kinect 2 isnt going to fundamentally change anything. 

considering it's totally different tech, it's not a "refined version". it's not just newer tech. the concept of how it works is completely different. that's like saying a CD is just a refined record because they play music and they're round discs.
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post #195 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 09:39 PM
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considering it's totally different tech, it's not a "refined version". it's not just newer tech. the concept of how it works is completely different. that's like saying a CD is just a refined record because they play music and they're round discs.

What's so different? There's a depth camera and a mic. A CD is just like a record, both play music, one just does it better than the other.

It's not like kinect is going to make you breakfast in the morning, it serves exactly the same purpose and functions in the same way that the first kinect did.

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post #196 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 09:41 PM
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What's so different? There's a depth camera and a mic. A CD is just like a record, both play music. One just does it better than the other.

It's not like kinect is going to make you breakfast in the morning, it serves exactly the same purpose that the first kinect did.

plenty of info in the kinect thread if you care to know. again, if you're saying all depth techniques are the same then you're saying all means of transportation are the same whether it's a boat or a car or a plane...
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post #197 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 09:55 PM
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plenty of info in the kinect thread if you care to know. again, if you're saying all depth techniques are the same then you're saying all means of transportation are the same whether it's a boat or a car or a plane...

They could have alien nanotechnology or fairy magic under the hood for all I care...it's still a depth camera and a mic. Could be the best one ever, but we've all seen what a depth camera and mic is good for in gaming, and it hasn't amounted to much.

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post #198 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 10:42 PM
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A quick question to XBO players, do you see noticable drops or stutter when going to a new area? This was the primary time I noticed frame drops on the PS4 (similar to the 18fps drop in the DF comparison) it seems the engine has issues streaming new data.

The true comparison for framerate should be in Shanty Town, it is easily the most unstable area in the game, once cleared of enemies it would be easy to do 100% like for like comparison.

So far it has been playing quite smooth. I was bum rushed by around 6 to 7 enemies in Shantytown earlier today and noticed no slowdown or stutter. I managed to kill them all while hanging upside down. It is the scene right before you go into the 1st tomb in this section I believe. I didn't pay attention to the hair or the rest of the surroundings as I was busy trying to stay alive so maybe they took a hit. But there was no stuttering and I was able to pan the pistol and take careful aim. I have an i7 PC with 16GB of memory with a Geforce GTX770 lightning video card and the game looks better on the One and seems to play as well. For a 7 page thread in an Xbox section it doesn't seem like very many people actually have the game. If someone had planned to buy it and the frame rate bothers them that much then they should not buy it. But for this specific game, I have no complaints and if you have never played it before and only own the One, I would say it is a must buy for the system. My opinion only.
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post #199 of 647 Old 01-28-2014, 11:04 PM
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Most people on the Playstation side, myself included, planned to wait for price drops on the game. The news of 60fps pushed almost everyone to jump early. I am guessing most Xbox owners are waiting for a drop. I made the joke some time ago that the game was worth $1 per frame, and I stuck to that.

I have to wonder if the low points in the DF comparisons were due to level streaming causing judder. It is worth looking into at the very least.
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post #200 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 05:26 AM
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I played it for about 2hrs last night. As pointed above, I only maybe noticed a stutter in frame rate once during a cut scene and even then it wasn't the end of the world.
During actual game play, I haven't noticed a stutter yet.
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post #201 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 09:46 AM
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Digital Foundry updated the article. Far more differences than just the large disparity in Frame rate:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-tomb-raider-definitive-edition-next-gen-face-off
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post #202 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 09:47 AM
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Uh Oh, they've been following the thread.... wink.gif

http://hothardware.com/News/Microsoft-Reportedly-Relaxing-Kinect-Requirements-Returning-GPU-Power-To-Primary-Console/

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post #203 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Digital Foundry updated the article. Far more differences than just the large disparity in Frame rate:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-tomb-raider-definitive-edition-next-gen-face-off

I still find it kind of odd that they're so adamant about wanting a frame rate lock on the PS4. I think it'd be more preferable to have a TressFX switch. If you're going to give players an option, better to give one that increases performance instead of reduces it.

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post #204 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I still find it kind of odd that they're so adamant about wanting a frame rate lock on the PS4. I think it'd be more preferable to have a TressFX switch. If you're going to give players an option, better to give one that increases performance instead of reduces it.

I'm glad it isn't. The PS4 version is very smooth for the most part and I'd had to see it capped at 30fps, I wouldn't have bought it. I don't really care about the hair, if they through in an option to give her generic hair for better performance on the Xbox One, they should do it.
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post #205 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 12:16 PM
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Uh Oh, they've been following the thread.... wink.gif

http://hothardware.com/News/Microsoft-Reportedly-Relaxing-Kinect-Requirements-Returning-GPU-Power-To-Primary-Console/

Giving resources back to developers isn't the same as removing Kinect from the package which is what a lot of the complainers here want. The former makes sense, the latter does not.
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post #206 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 12:21 PM
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That 8% is close to 100Gflops, it will help out games quite a bit. This is power that should never have been perma reserved. No idea if this will help out games already out though. (These types of updates rarely do)

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post #207 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 02:05 PM
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Giving resources back to developers isn't the same as removing Kinect from the package which is what a lot of the complainers here want. The former makes sense, the latter does not.
I don't know man. If they're relaxing the Kinect then they're killing it softly. If devs don't have to use something they wont so the Kinect will be nothing more than expensive mike when it comes to the gaming component. The only studios I see making good use of it would be Microsoft studio's games. All others will just mail it in.
Sad as it could have been so much more. This wont help sell any more One's, infact it'll hurt more than anything else. Because then it really becomes a straight on comparison thing. I'm telling you most of the posts about "I'll buy an Xbox when there's no Kinect" is just a bunch of bull. Most of those guys just want to see the One fail and have no intention of getting a One, ever. I'll still enjoy my One for sure because it let's me do the things I want to do the WAY I want to do it but the promise of more deeply integrated Kinect features in games looks to be dying.

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post #208 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

I don't know man. If they're relaxing the Kinect then they're killing it softly. If devs don't have to use something they wont so the Kinect will be nothing more than expensive mike when it comes to the gaming component. The only studios I see making good use of it would be Microsoft studio's games. All others will just mail it in.
Sad as it could have been so much more. This wont help sell any more One's, infact it'll hurt more than anything else. Because then it really becomes a straight on comparison thing. I'm telling you most of the posts about "I'll buy an Xbox when there's no Kinect" is just a bunch of bull. Most of those guys just want to see the One fail and have no intention of getting a One, ever. I'll still enjoy my One for sure because it let's me do the things I want to do the WAY I want to do it but the promise of more deeply integrated Kinect features in games looks to be dying.

They were never "forced" to use Kinect. They could completely ignore Kinect, and just let that 10% of the GPU sit idle. This change gives them complete flexibility, and I don't see how that can be viewed as a bad thing.

I don't think you'll see a ton of Kinect-only games like the 360 had. I think what you're more likely to see is an expansion of Kinect features embedded into traditional games. I liked the suggestion mentioned previously of tossing grenades over your shoulder, etc, and I'm hoping that's the kind of stuff we end up with. We are still in the launch window for the new consoles, so there is no reason to believe that Kinect can't (or won't) be used in more creative ways going forward.
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post #209 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 02:23 PM
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I am sitting about 13-14 feet away from from my 55 inch screen (if it matters, it is a Panny Plasma 1080p) . Assuming I have decent eyesight, at that distance, will I notice a difference between 60fps versus 30fps?

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post #210 of 647 Old 01-29-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by properbostonian View Post

I am sitting about 13-14 feet away from from my 55 inch screen (if it matters, it is a Panny Plasma 1080p) . Assuming I have decent eyesight, at that distance, will I notice a difference between 60fps versus 30fps?

I would but I can't vouch for what other people would perceive. At the distance a change in resolution of 720/1080 might be harder to distinguish but appreciating double the smoothness in frame rate, isn't really based on screen size.
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