The second Xbox 360 revealed: (includes HDMI) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by aegisx View Post

The games will be the same, so enjoy what you have I may be alone but I have not used up much HD space at all and I've had this thing since a couple weeks after launch. HDMI is not the end-all-be-all of things either. It looks great over component (on my SXRD). So have fun and don't worry about the tech.

Ya I know, it's more than soon I'll have to run a component switch box for the component things I have plugged in, and still have nothing going into the hdmi port. O well. No biggie, still love the thing! Yanno, if they come out with an hdmi cable for the existing 360, it's going to cost a small fortune between the price they're charging for other cables ($40) and what people in general are charging for hdmi cables
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post #92 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:21 AM
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I'd rather have efforts go into making a slimline Xbox360 than HDMI support.
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post #93 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:23 AM
 
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Dahlsim - "How did that turn out? 1080p games right now is almost entirely a marketing bullet point. "....

Actually there are quite a few games that run in 1080p and the system just came out. Off the top of my head: GT HD (looks gorgeous btw and buttery smooth at 60fps), Ridger Racer 7 (also 60fps), NBA 07 (also 60fps), Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Tekken 5 - Dark Ressurection (also 60fps). It is quite a bit more than a marketing bulletin point, of course it does that as well

Truth is MS the exec did stick his neck out, but I doubt he'll get the axe. Both MS exec's were way off target. As for the PS3 being well below the 360's overall, I'd say the exact opposite, they are well above. Where are the 1080p rendered 360 games? It's been out for over a year. PS3 a couple of months, the math is simple. The ratio of 1080p games isn't in MS's court. The PS3 is producing games that actually have the graphics of top quality next-gen games. edit: I have yet to see a racing game come close to Motorstorm (large number of vehicles on screen, excellent physics, great graphics with superb lighting, rock solid framerate and most importantly extremely fun )

Of course you can trade of resolution for other things, they could axe 720p and optimize for something lower as well. It really depends on the developers and what they want to do which is why you see a variety on these systems, they all have their preferences.
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post #94 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

I have yet to see a racing game come close to Motorstorm (large number of vehicles on screen, excellent physics, great graphics with superb lighting, rock solid framerate and most importantly extremely fun )

And I have yet to see any game come close to Gear of War for graphics.
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post #95 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:38 AM
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I think we call agree to one thing when 1080P rendered games are being spoken about.

The less stuff happening on the screen, the more likely it could be rendered in 1080P.



Out of the 5 games you listed.

One is a single car doing time trial events racing against a clock with nothing else on the screen but a background. wow.

Another is a game that was designed for the PSP. the psp must have a cell too.

Another 2 are all games where there is little action going on. A basketball game and a fighting game? Either 5 on 5 of the most cartoonish basketball players I ever seen or a good ole 1 on 1 fight.

If anything I'd give the nod to RR7 as showing the most technical prowness because it has the most going on at one time and still manages to keep 60fps. Just that its cartoonish and drifting based with a very weak AI.

Besides giving Sony their obvious props for not only introducing 1080P games first while the 360 has introduced nothing I can think..

I would love to see M$ something rendered in 1080P just to show it is capable. And leave it at that. I'd much rather current gaming focused its resources more on new ways on innovative gameplay and graphics detail taken to a new level than chasing some false resolution crown.

I cant think of a single person that would prefer playing any of the current 1080P rendered PS3 games over the 720P version of Gears Of War. I hope that Halo3 is finalized they focus to deliver a experience that GOW does instead of shooting for 1080P.

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post #96 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

What are you talking about? Lets say you do have HDMI in the new version your still using the 360 to actually send out a signal. The add-on connects with usb. SO what is the confusion here. You have to use the 360 to connect to the tv. The add-on doesn't need to be HDCP compliant the 360 would have to be.


It's cool then. I was thinking external hd-dvd was a feeding source....
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post #97 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:40 AM
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I dont want to hear the PS2 comparison. The slim PS2 came out years later after a couple of price drops. The 360 has yet to drop in price and has only done 1080p (DVDs) through VGA and many dont have that kind of connection. An update like this means they knew about this for some time which is way under one year of life. This may have been in the works since pics leaked in June of a new board. So basically, while these things were frying eggs and they started finally getting them on the shelves, MS was making a replacement.

Now we know why they extended the warranty, soften the blow from this.
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post #98 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:46 AM
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Eh, I have an old HDTV with no DVI or HDMI.. Good luck with that lawsuit Dex.

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post #99 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:46 AM
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JHferry.. As much as we'd all like to believe it.. the reality is M$ nor any corporation produces goods, materials and sources for our pure joy.

They do it to turn a profit and make money. And that means anything within the realms of general business ethics is basically fair.

While it does suck your 1year old, 1 month old, or for some people 1 week old Xbox360 may be a bit outdated. Its really not that extreme.

Its an updated model, not a complete change. Both versions will technically do the same things with the same software. And to be honest, outside of this forum most people simply wont give a damn and will probably go for the older 360 if its atleast still offered at $50 bucks cheaper.

Buying any technology in its first year you are considered an early adopter. And thats part of the risk you take wanting to be the first with it.

There isnt a single forum on this whole AVS site that doesnt suffer from early adopters getting burned by an updated version of their purchase. From the flat screen guys, to the projector guys, to the audio guys, to the HD guys.. Hell the computer guys suffer the worse with new video cards dropping every 6months or so.

Its just part of the game.

You have to pay to play.

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post #100 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:47 AM
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I predict a thread like this will on the PlayStation forum when Sony puts a video scaler chip on their PS3 revision.

EDIT:

By the way, we all knew of this 360 revision since the summer. Didn't any of you get the Best Buy warranty so you could walk in and trade the v1 360 for a v2?

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post #101 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:49 AM
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New models come out. It sucks but that's progression.

People don't complain when the Ipod comes out with v1, v2, v3, v4, v5. It friggin $250 and doesn't even come with built-in FM receiver, recording, etc. And yet people keep buying the upgrades.

My wife got the Lexus IS and then they come out with the sweet new version. And that's $35000. Not $400.
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post #102 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:51 AM
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Where are the 1080p rendered 360 games? It's been out for over a year. PS3 a couple of months, the math is simple. The ratio of 1080p games isn't in MS's court.



The ratio of 1080P displays are not there yet either. So whats your point? By the way I am curious about you and Dralts perspective with the sales for the 3 systems this Xmas.

The 5.0 is here
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post #103 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post

I predict a thread like this will on the PlayStation forum when Sony puts a video scaler chip on their next revision.

EDIT:

By the way, we all knew of this 360 revision since the summer. Didn't any of you get the Best Buy warranty so you could walk in and trade the v1 360 for a v2?

I am not a big fam of the PS3 but this scaler issue has been overblown. Most TVs have built-in scalers. Very few do not -- mainly some older HDTVs. Most TVs will scale any input to their native resolution and this is not an issue for them.

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post #104 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Actually there are quite a few games that run in 1080p and the system just came out. Off the top of my head: GT HD (looks gorgeous btw and buttery smooth at 60fps), Ridger Racer 7 (also 60fps), NBA 07 (also 60fps), Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Tekken 5 - Dark Ressurection (also 60fps). It is quite a bit more than a marketing bulletin point, of course it does that as well

It's nothing more than a bullet point to the vast majority of gamers who aren't operating on 1080p sets. And as was correctly pointed out earlier, the benefits of 1080p versus 720p still have yet to be proven.

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Truth is MS the exec did stick his neck out, but I doubt he'll get the axe. Both MS exec's were way off target.

They were off target, true... but MS has yet to lie about something in the same bald-faced way that Sony did about its E3 2005 footage. Or promise features like dual 1080p output support that would end up being totally nonexistent. Or being "on track" for a Spring 2006 launch when everyone else knew that it was never gonna happen. Or having 2 million PS3 units shipped by the end of 2006 (which I believe they were still trying to have us believe as recently as two or three weeks ago).

See where I'm going with this?

The fact that you continually bring up the same two non-prescient predictions about the number of units shipped -- as well as 1080p support -- is just plain obnoxious and unnecessary, espcially within the context of this thread. It also only serves to highlight that MS' gaming division appears to be sheer genius next to the incompetent dodo-brains that seem to be running Sony. Say all you want about the power of the PS3 and its fancy features (and it does look like a great system and I can't wait to own Motorstorm), but Sony is in for a very, very rough year.

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As for the PS3 being well below the 360's overall, I'd say the exact opposite, they are well above. Where are the 1080p rendered 360 games?It's been out for over a year.

The 360 has been out for a year. 1080p support has been part of the system for a considerably shorter time. Whether the 1080p games come or not is largely irrelevant to the vast majority of the gaming world, but certainly we'll probably see some of the Live Arcade titles take that route as well as HD-DVD playback.

Quote:
The ratio of 1080p games isn't in MS's court.

The Wii is the hottest ticket in gaming right now. Does it have 1080p or HDMI? Hellz no, it doesn't even do HD support. And yet, it's the darling of the mass media and gamers alike. Having the 1080p games right now means absolutely nothing, and will continue to be largely irrelevant for the next three or four years.

Quote:
The PS3 is producing games that actually have the graphics of top quality next-gen games.

Well, for an extra $100-200 and an extra year of development time, it damn well better. But like it or not, the buzz around the PS3 is that it's too expensive and performing no better than the 360. All the bullet points in the world won't save it when people would rather spend less money and get a Wii instead.

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post #105 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by svelteboy View Post

I don't know about your unit, but the fan on mine is still pretty loud. Even without a disc in the DVD drive, I can still hear the fan when playing a movie on the HD DVD drive. BTW, the HD DVD drive is virtually silent to my ears. Sometimes the noise gets distracting during silent moments in movies but I learned to tolerate it.

If the revised model gets a quieter DVD drive and fan, I'd be loving it.

i don't have the HD-DVD addon but i often use the 360 on my desk behind my 24" 10808 monitor (via vga). can you hear yours during navigation of the dashboard, watching trailers, live arcade? the thing is virtually silent unless when a game starts where the DVD-drive spins. i know there are alot of various comments on this but mine was a launch unit and apparently the fans/drives have improved *slightly* along the way.

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post #106 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 10:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cubbiechris View Post

And I have yet to see any game come close to Gear of War for graphics.

no doubt, it is the best looking 3rd person shooter IMO, GRAW coming in 2nd. It better in some ways, not as good in others, very different artistic and gameplay styles
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post #107 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

What Im saying is that by NOT including HDMI on the current 360.. M$ is not appealing to a certain group of the gaming market that the competition does currently cater too. And so they are losing sales.

i doubt they're losing any sales at all, especially for gamers. and the few sales they lost would be negated by $$ cost of 10million units shipped to date.

they want to sell 360s with high attach rates and if you're on the fence about hdmi for 360 at this time then you're a casual gamer and just wait out a few price drops and revisions. not that complicated.

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post #108 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post

I predict a thread like this will on the PlayStation forum when Sony puts a video scaler chip on their PS3 revision.

EDIT:

By the way, we all knew of this 360 revision since the summer. Didn't any of you get the Best Buy warranty so you could walk in and trade the v1 360 for a v2?

Aye... but mine runs out in December, so they better hurry up and release it

It already takes 2-3 attempts to successfully start-up without the E-74 error, so I already have an excuse hehe.
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post #109 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

I think we call agree to one thing when 1080P rendered games are being spoken about.

The less stuff happening on the screen, the more likely it could be rendered in 1080P...etc

yup, agreed on several points. I have no doubt the 360 could do 1080p, there is always a trade-off. For most games I don't think they should target 1080p.. Like Lair for example on the PS3, the framerate looks too low, I'd rather they dump that though and go with 720 and have much better framerates (like insomniac did). It should really be done on a game to game basis, heck I've always stated that they shouldn't force devs to even have a 720p minimum.
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post #110 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:11 AM
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How do you measure frame rate on a console? Just wondering how you know that these PS3 games are running at 60fps.

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post #111 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by chinch View Post

i doubt they're losing any sales at all, especially for gamers. and the few sales they lost would be negated by $$ cost of 10million units shipped to date.

they want to sell 360s with high attach rates and if you're on the fence about hdmi for 360 at this time then you're a casual gamer and just wait out a few price drops and revisions. not that complicated.

I doubt that they are losing a huge number.. but I have no doubt there is a large amount of people who are either believe or are being told HDMI = better graphics.. And there are alot of gamers who are only interested in the best graphics..

I completely agree with what you are saying about the $10 million systems.. but now that they are in their 2nd year.. and have a great base.. they can expand on that to reach EVERY gamer in the market as I talked about.

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post #112 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Shape View Post

How do you measure frame rate on a console? Just wondering how you know that these PS3 games are running at 60fps.

As nerdy as it sounds an experienced gamer can tell by his/her own eyes. Halo & GoW have great visuals but they aren't as buttery smooth as a racing game with 60fps. Not to mention the developers of big-name games usually publish the FPS in media interviews to brag what it's capable of.

The 360 should have come out a year later.

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post #113 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shape View Post

How do you measure frame rate on a console? Just wondering how you know that these PS3 games are running at 60fps.

Developer interviews, for the ones I listed. After playing games for a long time it becomes easier to notice which games feel a lot smoother than and which don't. On PC's there are ways to have it actually display the framerate while playing.
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post #114 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:20 AM
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The reason that Sony will lose this war and Microsoft will win is that Microsoft is much more flexible a company than Sony is. MS sees things that it can fix/change and it fixes/changes them. It is not locked in to a game plan. Sony, on the other hand, is much more rigid. For instance, Sony insisted on using bluray technology even though that decision delayed the release of the PS3 for a year and increased the price of the PS3 by $200. This decision gave MS 12 months to build a community. Had Sony been flexible, it would have seen that it was more important to get the PS3 on the market than it was to get bluray in the PS3.

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post #115 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Scotty L View Post

As nerdy as it sounds an experienced gamer can tell by his/her own eyes. Halo & GoW have great visuals but they aren't as buttery smooth as a racing game with 60fps. Not to mention the developers of big-name games usually publish the FPS in media interviews to brag what it's capable of.

The 360 should have come out a year later.

Ah beat me to it, and said more eloquently.
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post #116 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotty L View Post

As nerdy as it sounds an experienced gamer can tell by his/her own eyes. Halo & GoW have great visuals but they aren't as buttery smooth as a racing game with 60fps. Not to mention the developers of big-name games usually publish the FPS in media interviews to brag what it's capable of.

The 360 should have come out a year later.

You can't possibly be serious though? If the 360 came out in November with the Wii and the PS3 with it's initial hardware problems and software library, it wouldn't have stood a chance in hell.

Coming out a year earlier is what has the 360 in the state it's in now... which overall is a very positive state.
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post #117 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by aC39 View Post

You can't possibly be serious though? If the 360 came out in November with the Wii and the PS3 with it's initial hardware problems and software library, it wouldn't have stood a chance in hell.

Coming out a year earlier is what has the 360 in the state it's in now... which overall is a very positive state.

I totally understand and you make some great points, but honestly, if it took them an extra 6-8 months to release a 360 with a 120gb HDD, HDMI output, (and possible HD-DVD drive) for the same price or just a tad more could you hold off on Kameo, PD:Zero, & Call of Duty?

Either way this proves that competition is a good thing. You can bet the Zephyr wouldn't be what it is without the PS3 looming in the background.

"ANYONE who pc games that doesn't have a 360 controller for pc use, well frankly isn't a gamer at all."
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post #118 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:38 AM
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Not saying this pic is legit, but the reason there is no optical port is because HDMI supports audio, which is what every one should want anyways. 1080p is overrated, your TV scales 1080i better than the 360 will. I want HDMI, but i want it for the advanced audio.

Next person who complains about a new version of xbox coming out and saying a dongle should be made for 1080p, should be shot. Current Xbox 360 outputs are analog, a dongle that contains a analog to digital converter aint gonna happen. And if you complain that your receiver doesnt have HDMI inputs to extract the audio, you dont need an xbox with HDMI. Who ever started marketing 1080p is a genius.
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post #119 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hughesne View Post

Not saying this pic is legit, but the reason there is no optical port is because HDMI supports audio, which is what every one should want anyways. 1080p is overrated, your TV scales 1080i better than the 360 will. I want HDMI, but i want it for the advanced audio.

Next person who complains about a new version of xbox coming out and saying a dongle should be made for 1080p, should be shot. Current Xbox 360 outputs are analog, a dongle that contains a analog to digital converter aint gonna happen. And if you complain that your receiver doesnt have HDMI inputs to extract the audio, you dont need an xbox with HDMI. Who ever started marketing 1080p is a genius.

As discussed already, HDMI supporting audio does not negate the need for an optical port. Not everyone needs to run HDMI video through their receiver.
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post #120 of 353 Old 01-05-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesne View Post

Not saying this pic is legit, but the reason there is no optical port is because HDMI supports audio, which is what every one should want anyways. 1080p is overrated, your TV scales 1080i better than the 360 will. I want HDMI, but i want it for the advanced audio.

Next person who complains about a new version of xbox coming out and saying a dongle should be made for 1080p, should be shot. Current Xbox 360 outputs are analog, a dongle that contains a analog to digital converter aint gonna happen. And if you complain that your receiver doesnt have HDMI inputs to extract the audio, you dont need an xbox with HDMI. Who ever started marketing 1080p is a genius.


I'd hate to know what happens when someone pisses you off..

D.I.N.K

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