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post #91 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Wow the fanboyism that runs rampant on these forums these days has really begun to get out of hand whether is HD DVD/Blu-ray or XBOX360/PS3, its all getting a bit ridiculous. Anyone stating the halo3 will determine the 360's fate is out of their mind. The 360 is a solid console that has had numerous hits during 2007 and, while Halo 3 (IMO the whole series is overrated) may be a great game it will in no way be the end of the Wii/PS2 dominance in console sales this holiday or will it be a failure that crushes the 360's chances of being the overall #1 console in the market.

On the note of the PS3 anyone who says its doomed and is a failure after being out less than a year is also just as deluded. To all the 360 fanboys I suggest you look back at the first year of the 360's life where it was plagued with the RROD, scratching discs, overheating powerblocks, and a pathetic selection of games that were mainly just ports of ps2 or PC games (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/747/747459p1.html). Yes 2007 has been great for the 360 ever since Gears was released, but remember that was part of year 2. The PS3 is barely out of the gates and games like Warhawk, heavenly Sword (great game even if a little short), LAIR (yes Lair, don't believe all the reviews; once you get used to the controls its actually a pretty fun game with a decent storyline), Motorstorm, NGS, ratchet and clank (coming soon) and a much more reliable system makes the PS3's first year not too shabby. yeah it may not have been quite as successful as the 360's first year in sales (360 had no next gen competition when it released as well compared to the PS3 going against the 360), but to say its a flop is ridiculous.

Once year 2 kicks in with the PS3 the software support for it will stabilize and the race for top next gen console will start to heat up. I don't expect price to be an issue with the rumored $400 unit, and the future price drops that are sure to happen (just like 360 did after a year an a half) will keep the gaming market competitive.

In the end either way you look at it whichever system you choose you will be happy and if your lucky enough to have both you have nothing to worry about. Both systems should be around for a while.

Excellent post.

As for the "wait for it comment" that has been true of the 360, xbox, cube, PS2, etc. as well.
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post #92 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by flood222 View Post

There is a reoccuring theme with PS3 fans. "waaaaiiittt foooorrr ittttt"

And I believe the xbox360 version is "Just wait for the next console revision* and we won't get anymore RROD's"

All systems have issues at the start. PS2 was "overpriced" and "difficult to program for", the 360 was "oh crap RROD" or "Why is my disc all scratched after playing the game for only 20 minutes." Both systems turned out fine by the 2nd to 3rd year of their life cycle, why would the PS3 be any different. its not like Sony is new at this.
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post #93 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

And I believe the xbox360 version is "Just wait for the next console revision* and we won't get anymore RROD's"

All systems have issues at the start. PS2 was "overpriced" and "difficult to program for", the 360 was "oh crap RROD" or "Why is my disc all scratched after playing the game for only 20 minutes." Both systems turned out fine by the 2nd to 3rd year of their life cycle, why would the PS3 be any different. its not like Sony is new at this.

And with all the problems that you and others have mentioned for the umpteenth time the thing still outsales the PS3. People have been through 8 systems or more what does that tell you. Sh*t happens even after the public announcement over the summer with the RROD it still is selling more than the PS3. It is the games that bring the customers. Yeah we had to wait on games Gears for a year but plenty of games to play while the wait happen. Not MS fault they decided to launch a year early and it I would fear the worst if the PS3 actually was orignally supposed to come Spring of 05. Oh boy what would be the excuses then with the games just releasing now.


After the PS3 launch it was "wait for it in Spring" After Motorstorm arrived it was Virtua Fighter 5 next up "wait for the fall" so much wait between the time.

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post #94 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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Considering the Wii has already passed the 360 (out 1 year longer) despite having a vastly inferior library to the 360 and PS3 it certainly shows price has a big impact as well as being a obstacle for PS3 adoption. Granted I don't know how the hardware numbers compared for the PS3 and 360 after one year but the Wii completely destroyed both of those figures.
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post #95 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

And with all the problems that you and others have mentioned for the umpteenth time the thing still outsales the PS3. People have been through 8 systems or more what does that tell you. Sh*t happens even after the public announcement over the summer with the RROD it still is selling more than the PS3. It is the games that bring the customers. Yeah we had to wait on games Gears for a year but plenty of games to play while the wait happen. Not MS fault they decided to launch a year early and it I would fear the worst if the PS3 actually was orignally supposed to come Spring of 05. Oh boy what would be the excuses then with the games just releasing now.


After the PS3 launch it was "wait for it in Spring" After Motorstorm arrived it was Virtua Fighter 5 next up "wait for the fall" so much wait between the time.

Like I said fanboyism running rampant. the first years releases were either ports of other systems games that were marginal at best and seriously flawed hardware do to a rushed release during its first year. Once again it was the consoles first year and there were some growing pains. The second year for the 360 has been very successful with the somewhat more reliable elite system, MS's decision to extend the warranty for the RROD symptom, and a series of solid titles from Q1 to now. I am not disputing the 360 outselling the PS3 nor the fact that it has a better game base at this time, all be it lacking in variety. My point in all of this is that you cannot judge a system by its first year of release. 360 fanboys quickly forget the first years craptastic game supply and hardware issues because year 2 has been great, but are quick to jump on the PS3 for subpar games during its first year of release.

All I am saying is that both systems need time to really hit their stride. It took the 360 a good year to do it and yet the PS3 is not a year old yet and its being called a failure. If the PS3 still has not increased its library of "good" games by this time next year the I will say that there is a problem with Sony's execution with this system. To speculate that Sony's PS3 is a failure prior to that is just idiotic and looking to stir the pot of fanboys.
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post #96 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Like I said fanboyism running rampant. the first years releases were either ports of other systems games that were marginal at best and seriously flawed hardware do to a rushed release during its first year.

FYI Gears of War was out within the first year of the 360's launch. It was technically a first year release.
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post #97 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Lthat you cannot judge a system by its first year of release. 360 fanboys quickly forget the first years craptastic game supply and hardware issues because year 2 has been great, but are quick to jump on the PS3 for subpar games during its first year of release.

Because there isn't a comparison: PGR3, Call of Duty 2, NFS: Most Wanted, Quake 4, Dead Rising, Burnout Revenge, GRAW...all first year I believe.

PS3 First Year: Motorstorm..Resistance......Warhawk is like a 1/2 game, Lair I suppose if you want something that looks really pretty.

Come on....we can debate the finer points of PS3 versus 360 war, but this isn't one of them. The 360 hit the ground running with frequent releases of really impressive games in Year 1. By comparison, the PS3 has had one of the worst software launch-years in the history of gaming, perhaps falling only ahead of..say..the Atari Jaguar.

Sony launched its system a year too early, and the software tells the tale. All of us who paid full price for a PS3 will be seeing the system selling at half price for us by the time the games that really use the machine are available, that wasn't the case with the 360, so there is better perceived value there.

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To speculate that Sony's PS3 is a failure prior to that is just idiotic and looking to stir the pot of fanboys.

I think it depends on how you are using the word failure. Its had a pretty lousy year in terms of software. Yeah, its a BD player, which is why alot of us ponied up the bucks to get one in the first place, particularly since it turned out to be a GOOD BD player....but game wise? Year 1 is a huge disappointment.

Rubbing salt in the wound is the fact that we all paid top dollar for our PS3's....now the system is rumored to be selling soon for $399, I'm guessing in the hopes that Sony can sell some systems this xmas even without any games for it worth noting.....so when the good games finally hit, the system will be selling for half (or more) than what some of us shelled out.

So in many ways I consider the PS3 a failure, it has failed to live up to the expectation levels that Sony themselves set up. When Sony finally starts to deliever software that rivals and, hopefully, exceeds what can be done on the 360...then I will feel a little better, but I'll still be bitter about the huge price premium I paid for.............well, for nothing. Sony set the bar extremely high and didn't come close to reaching it.....the perception is that its a failure.

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post #98 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flood222 View Post

There is a reoccuring theme with PS3 fans. "waaaaiiittt foooorrr ittttt"

Because, yeah, huge surprise, no one, not even Microsoft or Sony, can accelerate time.
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post #99 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:26 PM
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even without any games for it worth noting

Please list those games the 360 will have, the PS3 won't have, that are worth noting.
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post #100 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Considering the Wii has already passed the 360 (out 1 year longer) despite having a vastly inferior library to the 360 and PS3 it certainly shows price has a big impact as well as being a obstacle for PS3 adoption. Granted I don't know how the hardware numbers compared for the PS3 and 360 after one year but the Wii completely destroyed both of those figures.

Clearly, Sony overestimated how much people are ready to pay for a console.
So did Microsoft.

Hence the result:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Tec...oppedImage.pdf

Source:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Tec...:_Q2_2007.html
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post #101 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Considering the Wii has already passed the 360 (out 1 year longer) despite having a vastly inferior library to the 360 and PS3 it certainly shows price has a big impact as well as being a obstacle for PS3 adoption. Granted I don't know how the hardware numbers compared for the PS3 and 360 after one year but the Wii completely destroyed both of those figures.

Although I strongly agree that price is a major factor and is the key to mass adoption, the Wii is not doing quite as well as suggested. Certainly the Wii is doing well, however it is the Japaneese market that is the big difference. In NA the 360 is still far ahead in sales and will remain in this position for the foreseeable future. It seems to be the reluctance of the Japaneese consumer to purchase an american console that is the real difference in WW sales. Of the 11m Wiis sold a full 1/3 have been sold in Japan.
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post #102 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Like I said fanboyism running rampant. the first years releases were either ports of other systems games that were marginal at best and seriously flawed hardware do to a rushed release during its first year. Once again it was the consoles first year and there were some growing pains. The second year for the 360 has been very successful with the somewhat more reliable elite system, MS's decision to extend the warranty for the RROD symptom, and a series of solid titles from Q1 to now. I am not disputing the 360 outselling the PS3 nor the fact that it has a better game base at this time, all be it lacking in variety. My point in all of this is that you cannot judge a system by its first year of release. 360 fanboys quickly forget the first years craptastic game supply and hardware issues because year 2 has been great, but are quick to jump on the PS3 for subpar games during its first year of release.

All I am saying is that both systems need time to really hit their stride. It took the 360 a good year to do it and yet the PS3 is not a year old yet and its being called a failure. If the PS3 still has not increased its library of "good" games by this time next year the I will say that there is a problem with Sony's execution with this system. To speculate that Sony's PS3 is a failure prior to that is just idiotic and looking to stir the pot of fanboys.

Your the one who came in high and mighty calling everyone fanboys or whatnot not once did I say the PS3 was/is a failure but I won't call it a huge success compared to how they have been doing since 95. Bottom line is we continue to wait. I continue to wait to purchase the PS3. Online is behind compared to Live and actually I don't need to rehash it really. If you are happy with the PS3 then I don't see the concern but don't try and call everyone a fanboy because the news, avs members and basically the internet agrees the damn this is not succeeding as plan. Hell it isn't succeeding as I had hoped it would I was expecting to buy one myself buy this time.

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post #103 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 04:57 PM
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All you have to do is look at the attachment ratio to each of the systems and you see where the money is being made.

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post #104 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Online is behind compared to Live .

Once you get hooked into the XBL system, it's hard to get yourself to buy an online game on the PS3. You'll want to play the games with the folks on your friends list, and lots of them wont have a PS3, so you pretty much have to stay with the 360 for online MP games.

Having a headstart really is helping MS in this regard. Whichever systems gets you to have the most developed friends list will get your primary loyalty. Unfortunatly for Sony, right now the PS3 online doesn't have that community feel that XBL has. Until HOME is released, they are letting MS get ahead on the friends list.
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post #105 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Anyone stating the halo3 will determine the 360's fate is out of their mind.

No.

Anyone stating otherwise simply hasn't been paying attention.

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Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

On the note of the PS3 anyone who says its doomed and is a failure after being out less than a year is also just as deluded. To all the 360 fanboys I suggest you look back at the first year of the 360's life

No.

As you yourself noted, the 360 didn't have any competition during that time, allowing it to build up an established userbase. That the PS3 is going to overcome that kind of deficit is in serious doubt, even with a handful of really good titles on the horizon.

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Yes 2007 has been great for the 360 ever since Gears was released, but remember that was part of year 2.

No. It was still part of Year One. Look up the release dates.

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Once year 2 kicks in with the PS3 the software support for it will stabilize and the race for top next gen console will start to heat up.

It had better.

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Excellent post.

Ehhhh, not really.

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post #106 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dralt View Post

Please list those games the 360 will have, the PS3 won't have, that are worth noting.

Mass Effect, in a couple of months. PGR4, in a month or so. Looking down the road, the inevitable Gears of War sequels. Not just farts in the wind like Heavenly Sword, but titles with legs.

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post #107 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 06:20 PM
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Some writers think the GOTY hasn't even came out yet, (Mass Effect).
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post #108 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 06:26 PM
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Some writers think the GOTY hasn't even came out yet, (Mass Effect).

Already sold on that game.

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post #109 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 06:41 PM
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I think the wii wins on games and price. A good chunk of the Wii games are exclusives those that are not utlize the system...

The 360 wins with games but many are aimed at the teen and up sure their are games for E but not a lot.

The ps3 just lacks games. The wii and the ps3 came around the same time yet the wii has far more games.
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post #110 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by homerx View Post

I think the wii wins on games and price. A good chunk of the Wii games are exclusives those that are not utlize the system...

The 360 wins with games but many are aimed at the teen and up sure their are games for E but not a lot.

The ps3 just lacks games. The wii and the ps3 came around the same time yet the wii has far more games.

How many games on the Wii compared to the PS3? At the stores they look relatively close. Very curious how you came about "Far more".

Granted I'm about quality of quantity and PS3 cators more towards my tastes as PQ, SQ and online play are big factors for me. I play the Wii with family and friends locally.
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post #111 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lacombo View Post

All that yappin and nothin about Japan. That's where 360 needs to rise, not any place else. And in that regard, Mass Effect and Lost Odyssey will most likely outsell H3 and likely get more systems sold.

Right, but Super Wisdom Sword Sugar Plant 11/3 is a niche kinda thing, ya know?

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PS3 is 9yrs (so Sony hopes) away from being dead. Wii will continue it's lead simply from price.

Right. The PS3 will be bragging about its fabulous games in nine years, exactly four years after MS released the third Xbox.

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post #112 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dub273 View Post

Mass Effect, in a couple of months. PGR4, in a month or so. Looking down the road, the inevitable Gears of War sequels. Not just farts in the wind like Heavenly Sword, but titles with legs.

Yep, that was my plan for this year: Bioshock, Halo 3 and Mass Effect. I am not going to buy PGR again.

So, I think my 360 shopping list is up-to-date.

Actually, Heavenly Sword is quite a good game. I finished Chapter 4 yesterday and I had a lot of fun. Warhawk is also quite a blast. I recommend it.
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post #113 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 07:07 PM
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FYI Gears of War was out within the first year of the 360's launch. It was technically a first year release.

The 360 technically launched in 2005. GoW was an '06 release.

Why is that important?

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #114 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 07:17 PM
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How many games on the Wii compared to the PS3? At the stores they look relatively close. Very curious how you came about "Far more".

Granted I'm about quality of quantity and PS3 cators more towards my tastes as PQ, SQ and online play are big factors for me. I play the Wii with family and friends locally.

The Wii has a lot of games and a lot of them are not so good.

Only 7 games scoring above 80 so far:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/scores/

PS3 has 27 games scoring above 80 so far:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/ps3/scores/

If you were to think one console is successfull based on potential, you would think it's the Wii.
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post #115 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 09:56 PM
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[quote=kabob983;11713262]Metal Gear Solid 4 will probably generate this much hype when the time comes but it might be too late since the "average" gamer who will only have one console will have already spent their $$ on a 360. QUOTE]

I'm fairly certain that I read the MGS4 is also coming out on the 360....
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post #116 of 146 Old 09-25-2007, 10:27 PM
 
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I'm fairly certain that I read the MGS4 is also coming out on the 360....

You can be pretty certain that that was categorically incorrect. Of course, ANYTHING can eventually go multiconsole, but as of right now its a PS3 exclusive. In fact, at the end of the MGS4 playable demo at TGS, it said "Only on PS3".
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post #117 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 12:23 AM
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Interesting Thread! Enjoyed reading the entire thing in one sitting.

Let me start by saying I have no interest in the Wii, I can logically understand why it's in the comparison statistics wise, but it's not the same product as the 360 or PS3. Using myself as an example, I bought a $3300 Samsung 5271F out of nowhere last week, three months ago I was saying I would never buy a TV period; the rapid change of events primarily because it was clear I was missing half the power of my new 360 on my girlfriend's SDTV. Also because its mega cheap HD-DVD add on. I thought about the Wii for 5 minutes once upon a time because I could use some more exercise and I thought it might provide 3 or 4 nights of awesome drinking games with friends before the hangovers get old. Now I hear you can buy a little shield and sword to plug the controllers into? That should come with a reverse censorship rating, so that you have to wear green tights if you are over the age of 12 and buy this. To give them credit, from what I've read, Nintendo nailed their motion control feature.

I hope the PS3 does get its act together, I would like to set it next to my 360 in a year or two.

As for Halo. It was THE game I that instantly turned me back to my "8 years old" level of Mario addiction, when I thought gaming was dead to me. It will have a massive impact on the 360's overall success. MBA's at MS gaming division will analyze financial graphs in the years to come and instantly know what the spikes starting in Fall '07 were from. Anybody who says otherwise isn't fully comprehending the sales figures... plus the reviews are rolling out and 95% of them give serious accolades to the game.

Now I have to throw "Dx10 based xbox" into google, that I picked up from this thread, and see what that's about.
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post #118 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cmschleich View Post

Anybody who says otherwise isn't fully comprehending the sales figures...

No one in their right mind would say Halo 3 is a bad thing for Microsoft or the 360.
On the other hand, people who did not play Halo or Halo 2 are unlikely to be interested in Halo 3.
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post #119 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 12:56 AM
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In this day and age, the PS3 is a failure simply because it didnt meet expectations or come close to Sony's projections for the unit. That is why it is considered a failure. You can debate the reasons, but it hasnt lived up to what Sony said it would do.

In this regard, comparisons to the Wii, Xbox, or 1st year sales are largely irrelevant. The yardstick for success is whether it met Sony's projections.
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post #120 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by flood222 View Post

that writer is clearly biased.

The wii sells so well cause its cheap.

Don't foget easy to use, kid friendly, female friendly and a fresh experience...

Halo 3 looks great but MS needs a " kid/family friendly" blockbuster or 2 to go along Halo and GoW before it they could hope to challenge the Wii's numbers.

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