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post #121 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Excellent post.

As for the "wait for it comment" that has been true of the 360, xbox, cube, PS2, etc. as well.

Thats revisonist history at best.

Super Mario Bros.
Tetris
Super Mario World
Mario 64
Halo
Project Gotham Racing
Call of Duty 2
Project Gotham racing 3

There have been many systems going as far back as 1985 with AAA games at launch. It would take a quite a bit of time to list the well recieved and reviewed games for the first year of consoles as it would be HUGE.

Thats not to say YOU as an individual did not have to wait for AAA games, but its not the case for many. If you look at the first year attach rates for the 360 the "theory" that you had to wait for games seems suspect...

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post #122 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flood222 View Post

There is a reoccuring theme with PS3 fans. "waaaaiiittt foooorrr ittttt"

I am not sure how this idea gained traction. Seriously look at console gaming.

With time the hardware gets cheaper and the games (Used/Marked down) get cheaper. Why on earth would you buy something and say "I am waiting for...".

If you think its OK to wait for something them REALLY wait for it and save yourself $$$$!

Even IF the oft commented "Its this way for other consoles too" WAS true... that sure as heck is no reason to buy any of them before the games are there. (Unless you are lookingf or another feature, in which case you are not really waitingf or anyting you got what you wanted already)

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post #123 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dralt View Post

Actually, Heavenly Sword is quite a good game. I finished Chapter 4 yesterday and I had a lot of fun.

It definitely sets a new standard for in-game character animation. I was just having a little fun at Ninja Theory's expense in terms of its length. (Well, and also they took a shot at PGR4, but I digest.)

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Warhawk is also quite a blast. I recommend it.

Finally got to play it a couple of weeks ago on a colleague's 110" 720p projector. Absolutely awesome -- as the song goes, "I believe I can fly..!"

==\dub/==
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post #124 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

The 360 technically launched in 2005. GoW was an '06 release.

Why is that important?

GOW was put out within the first year of the 360's life. That is relevant to the discussion because people were trying to gauge whether the PS3's 1st year titles were worse than the 360's first year titles. When someone said that the 360 had no good games in it's first year, I pointed out that it had Gears of War, one of the greatest console games ever.
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post #125 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 06:03 AM
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I've seen less hype for console launches than Halo 3.....but I still don't think it will make or break the 360, that's already pretty much a done deal thanks to a years head start & Sony.

The "just wait" & the "the 360 took a year before..." is irrelevant. Being first to the market with zero competitors gives you the luxury of time, time to get your act together. Being second to market with direct competition allows no such luxury. Love it or hate it the fact that Sony asked it's current offering to do double duty has relegated it to also ran status. A status that is easy to aquire & very hard to shake (ask Atari, Sega, Nintendo, and Microsoft). This status is generally given in the first year, make it or break it so to speak.

I would seriously doubt there will be many software exclusives for the PS3......unless like Lair Sony pays for them & Sony is in no position to to do so. What developer can afford to pass up the other consoles? WiiSports has sold more copies than Sony has consoles in play. MGS4? Look at the numbers - if MGS4 gets a 20% attachment (very good) that would mean a sales of 800K units. The same 20% of the 360 gets you 2.2 million units - who's going to pass on those numbers. This is about the sales numbers for R:FoM - even when it was pretty much the only game on the market. Compare to GoW - currently 2.9 million.

This results in a downward spiral - few big exclusives due console numbers = no big "gotta get it" = fewer exclusives = even less "gotta" = ............

See above, all the console makers have experienced it - it seems to be Sony's turn this time.

This is why I don't think Halo will make or break the 360, the market has already spoken to a large extent - Halo is just the "closer".

It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
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post #126 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by skogan View Post

When someone said that the 360 had no good games in it's first year, I pointed out that it had Gears of War, one of the greatest console games ever.

The PS3's games couldn't even really be compared to some of the backwards-compatible titles available from the original Xbox.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #127 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lacombo View Post

And in that regard, Mass Effect and Lost Odyssey will most likely outsell H3 and likely get more systems sold.

Umm...yeah...I think that's...well..wrong. The casual gamer has probably not even heard of Mass Effect or Lost Odyssey. EVERYONE has heard of Halo 3. I'd be surprised if either of those games get 1/2 the sales that Halo 3 does.

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On the other hand, people who did not play Halo or Halo 2 are unlikely to be interested in Halo 3.

Again, untrue. When Halo and Halo 2 came out the PS2 was king. Right now there are SO many more people with 360's and a ton of them will buy Halo 3.

This is the most hyped and probably best advertised game that's ever come along, there are going to be a ton of people who normally aren't "in the know" about videogames who will get this game. Mass Effect and such will probably be great games but sales #'s wise they won't touch Halo...

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post #128 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:37 AM
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The marketing blitz for Halo 3 is just insane, is there a total $ amount associated with it yet?

I don't think anyone is questioning that EVENTUALLY the PS3 will have great games, when it does, I many others will plunk down the $299, which it will probably be the cost point at that time and buy it. The worry is will it still be a niche product at that point and will the 360 be one for the masses... I think that is starting to happen. As a PS1 and PS2 owner something annoyed me about the arrogance Sony had going into this race. Now I am by no means rah rah-ing for M$, as I have many issues with the actual company, but nobody can ignore how much money and time they are putting towards winning this race.
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post #129 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:42 AM
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I played with a large group of guys in the Bronx last nite. For a good 7 hours.. I had to leave around 11:45 because my girlfriend wouldnt stop nagging me about coming home.

3 flat screen tv's.. 3 xbox360s.. 12 controllers.. 15 people.. system link.. custom games.. and 4 12packs of Corona.. as you can imagine it was probably the most fun I've had gaming this year.

Of the 15 playing.. only about 8 of us have ever played Halo before.. so you can imagine how impressed the other 7 were. The hardest part was trying to get people to learn the buttons.. but after a few games they were hooked.

Even better there was orginally only 2 xbox360s there when I got there around 4pm.. Somebody else volunteered to bring over another flatscreen and around 7:30pm.. one of the 'new' guys went out and purchased a new premium, Halo 3, and a couple of controllers.. and best believe the other 'new' guys couldnt wait to play again. I have no doubt that this title is moving 360's off shelves.

I'd bet 1 of 7 copies of Halo3 sold, is sold with a brand new 360.

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post #130 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

3 xbox360s.. 12 controllers.. 15 people.

What, did 3 of you share a controller?

Would suck to have to sit out during all that. I'd have tried to guilt one more person into buying another console.

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post #131 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:50 AM
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We rotated in teams of 3 or 4.. When you lost your team sat out..

Some people also didnt want to play everygame.. playing that much FPS really drains your eyes/brain.. so you took a break while someone subbed in.. go take a rest.. drink some more beer.. talk a whole lot of shyt to guys that are getting their azz whipped.. and come back in 20 mins refreshed ready to kill again!


I brought over my own controller.. the black one from my Elite of course.. the Ooo's and Ahh's.. "Oh he thinks he's special".. lol

Glad I did too.. as other people had to write their name on their controllers to make sure they got the right ones to take back home. Some of the controllers were jacked up.. with buttons that didnt respond perfect..

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post #132 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike LS View Post

What, did 3 of you share a controller?

Would suck to have to sit out during all that. I'd have tried to guilt one more person into buying another console.

Plus another TV!

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post #133 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 08:21 AM
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Plus another TV!

Actually the TV sold itself.. well HDTV that is..

When we got the 3rd xbox over.. we didnt have a flatscreen.. we just used an extra tv from the bedroom.. after hooking up the 3rd xbox.. and seeing the SD picture.. every body said "EWWWWWWWWW"

And one of the guys immediately left to go get his plasma..

Seeing the HD flatscreen picture.. right beside the SD CRT tube picture.. really really shows you how far gaming and video has come. The SD CRT 480i tube picture is absolutely disgusting compared side by side 720p HD Flatscreen.

I honestly dont see how people play on the older SD tube tvs. Then again when you are splitting the screen into 4 player view at one time. It really brings out the small details. I remember playing one game on the SD tube tv.. and I couldnt even see how many kills my team played or being able to read any of the text on the HUD display. Not to mention it was ridiculously hard to see an enemy before they saw you first..

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post #134 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

Again, untrue. When Halo and Halo 2 came out the PS2 was king. Right now there are SO many more people with 360's and a ton of them will buy Halo 3.

This is the most hyped and probably best advertised game that's ever come along, there are going to be a ton of people who normally aren't "in the know" about videogames who will get this game. Mass Effect and such will probably be great games but sales #'s wise they won't touch Halo...

If someone doesn't like shooters, they did not play Halo, Halo 2 and they won't play Halo 3. Halo 3 is the best version of Halo and a great technical achievement in line for GOTY, but it's still the "same" game.
So, in the US, where shooters are extremely popular, Halo 3 can entice a few Xbox customers to upgrade to the 360. In other parts of the world, where shooters are less popular, the story is unclear.
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post #135 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dralt View Post

If someone doesn't like shooters, they did not play Halo, Halo 2 and they won't play Halo 3. Halo 3 is the best version of Halo and a great technical achievement in line for GOTY, but it's still the "same" game.
So, in the US, where shooters are extremely popular, Halo 3 can entice a few Xbox customers to upgrade to the 360. In other parts of the world, where shooters are less popular, the story is unclear.

I think you are disregarding two very important things:

1) There are alot of people who simply havent owned a console.. or havent owned a console since the SuperNintendo days. Being that consoles today do alot more than just play games (movies, media, pictures, audio, network streaming) it appeals to people who werent necessarily interested in consoles in the past.

For alot of people the 360 is their first console. In all seriousness I have two friends from college planning on picking up a 360.. that havent owned a console since the original PS1 back in college.

2) There are alot of people curious about the Halo3 hype. Its all in the tv, newspapers, internet, stores, etc. Even my girlfriend wanted to play it just to see what the big deal is about.. after seeing all of those people stand in line for 2 days in Manhattan just to play one videogame.

Of course she found it frustrating.. but thats not the point. The point is there is so much hype and attention brought to Halo3 that theres going to be alot of newbies who want to give it a try. I'm not saying they will run and purchase a 360 and the game just to try it.. but people definitely want to play it to see "what the big deal is"




Another quick story.. two of my coworkers took 9/25 off.. we are all pretty open with my Boss.. so he knew they wanted vacation time to "play a videogame". Of course I asked could I have the day off too. And my Boss was like hell no. He couldnt understand why a videogame was so important for everyone to miss a day of work. Needless to say we've even invited him to play.. lol

Its that type of hype though, thats bringing alot of *new* people to Halo.. even though Halo has been around since 2001.

Halo is like the Star Wars of Videogames. Those that didnt see the original episodes 4,5, and 6 in the late 70's and 80's. Still have a good chance of getting caught up in the hype of 1,2, and 3 this millenium.

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post #136 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:01 AM
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And my Boss was like hell no. He couldnt understand why a videogame was so important for everyone to miss a day of work.

I've yet to understand that one myself.

Or the waiting in line for a game at midnight when you could simply walk into any store yesterday and get one with no hassle.

And my wife thinks I'm too into video games with my 2 or 3 hours played a week and 2 or 3 games purchased a year. I need to find one of these hardcore, no lifers and befriend them just so she can see how over the top some are.

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post #137 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:03 AM
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Wow, I appear to have derailed this thread with my original side comments, and for that I apologize. Also, I do stand corrected for the Gears release day, it is technically a year one release as it made it in just under the cut off by 2 weeks. I do still hold to my point that the first years games for the 360 up to Gears were underwhelming as was supported by my original link to the IGN review of 360 year 1. Either way the point as mute as I will no longer debate the struggles of 360's first year and that is not the end all be all of system launches (not necessarily referring to anyone saying that in the thread BTW) or on the other side of the coin that the PS3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Both are solid systems that come this time next year should be providing quality games and experiences for all their gamers ad hopefully the debate will swing from which console has more problems to which new game will out do the next.

Back to the OP about Halo3.
Halo3 will not determine anything with the 360's fate. The 360's fate is already sealed. Its a great gaming machine with solid developer support. Halo3 being a success or a bust will do nothing to change that. Sure if it were to be a bust M$ would lose some serious cash from advertising, but honestly we have all seen the media coverage for this and its obviously a successful game launch. Now I won't get to play this until this weekend, but I hope the storyline is as good as I have heard as I am usually not impressed with most FPS storylines (Bioshock being a recent exception).
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post #138 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:25 AM
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MS just nees to change the social norm in japan. Japanese boys still wear mickey mouse and donald duck pants at the age of 17. And No I am not making that up.

Different cultures. The cute Nintendo thing is totally cool over there; just like disney.

American kids grow out of that by age 12.
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post #139 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:45 AM
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MS can't change the norm, but they are trying to show them that there is an effort being made to bring 360 JRPG's, which is the biggest genre over there followed buy fighting games. Remember, Halo 3's launch is akin to a Dragon Quest launch in Japan where kids and adults take off work.

Ultimately, Japan is VERY loyal to brands and MS will continue to swim upriver in the Asian markets just because it's American electronics product. Outside the Asian markets, the 360 is cruising, that world influence and influx of JRPG's should help them in Asia but it will be hard to conquer.
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post #140 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:53 AM
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i can personally attest to the mania of halo 3, even after the midnight launch.

i went to my local BB to snag a copy of h3 after work yesterday.

17 people in line, only 1 didn't have a copy of halo 3, and 4 were buying 360s along with h3.

i work at a church part time too, and 4 teenage guys there have been saving in anticipation of h3 to get a core, xbl, and h3 for like a year, and others are asking for it for xmas for h3.

i've not seen anything like this EVER.

loving my completed home theater. :)
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post #141 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 09:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

I played with a large group of guys in the Bronx last nite. For a good 7 hours.. I had to leave around 11:45 because my girlfriend wouldnt stop nagging me about coming home.

3 flat screen tv's.. 3 xbox360s.. 12 controllers.. 15 people.. system link.. custom games.. and 4 12packs of Corona.. as you can imagine it was probably the most fun I've had gaming this year.

Of the 15 playing.. only about 8 of us have ever played Halo before.. so you can imagine how impressed the other 7 were. The hardest part was trying to get people to learn the buttons.. but after a few games they were hooked.

Even better there was orginally only 2 xbox360s there when I got there around 4pm.. Somebody else volunteered to bring over another flatscreen and around 7:30pm.. one of the 'new' guys went out and purchased a new premium, Halo 3, and a couple of controllers.. and best believe the other 'new' guys couldnt wait to play again. I have no doubt that this title is moving 360's off shelves.

I'd bet 1 of 7 copies of Halo3 sold, is sold with a brand new 360.

Haha, good stuff! Reminds me of Halo:CE using xbox-connect back in the with my buddies back in the day at my old condo. 65", 57", and the other team got stuck with the 27" CRT, lol then against other friends 20 miles in S.F. away on a Plasma.
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post #142 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 10:29 AM
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You make some good points. I hear lots of people talking about halo 3. I was surprized at the people in line to get halo 3 last night. Most of them were in their 30's. I guess everyone else younger already had theirs. But I do think the hype is having an effect. Halo is almost a star wars. But star wars was embrased by many generations, gammas, kids etc. Halo 3 is not that wide spread yet.

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I think you are disregarding two very important things:

1) There are alot of people who simply havent owned a console.. or havent owned a console since the SuperNintendo days. Being that consoles today do alot more than just play games (movies, media, pictures, audio, network streaming) it appeals to people who werent necessarily interested in consoles in the past.

For alot of people the 360 is their first console. In all seriousness I have two friends from college planning on picking up a 360.. that havent owned a console since the original PS1 back in college.

2) There are alot of people curious about the Halo3 hype. Its all in the tv, newspapers, internet, stores, etc. Even my girlfriend wanted to play it just to see what the big deal is about.. after seeing all of those people stand in line for 2 days in Manhattan just to play one videogame.

Of course she found it frustrating.. but thats not the point. The point is there is so much hype and attention brought to Halo3 that theres going to be alot of newbies who want to give it a try. I'm not saying they will run and purchase a 360 and the game just to try it.. but people definitely want to play it to see "what the big deal is"




Another quick story.. two of my coworkers took 9/25 off.. we are all pretty open with my Boss.. so he knew they wanted vacation time to "play a videogame". Of course I asked could I have the day off too. And my Boss was like hell no. He couldnt understand why a videogame was so important for everyone to miss a day of work. Needless to say we've even invited him to play.. lol

Its that type of hype though, thats bringing alot of *new* people to Halo.. even though Halo has been around since 2001.

Halo is like the Star Wars of Videogames. Those that didnt see the original episodes 4,5, and 6 in the late 70's and 80's. Still have a good chance of getting caught up in the hype of 1,2, and 3 this millenium.

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post #143 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralt View Post

If someone doesn't like shooters, they did not play Halo, Halo 2 and they won't play Halo 3. Halo 3 is the best version of Halo and a great technical achievement in line for GOTY, but it's still the "same" game.
So, in the US, where shooters are extremely popular, Halo 3 can entice a few Xbox customers to upgrade to the 360. In other parts of the world, where shooters are less popular, the story is unclear.

I agree that other parts of world may not gravitate to shooters (although I wouldn't doubt Halo has pulled in a few) but as one who doesn't play all that much FPS I can say that Halo was the 1st game since Doom/Wolfenstein to make me want to not only play a little but actually finish the game.

That's part of the success of Halo, getting to both the core FPS fans and pulling in some non FPS fans.

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I would seriously doubt there will be many software exclusives for the PS3......unless like Lair Sony pays for them & Sony is in no position to to do so. What developer can afford to pass up the other consoles?

Sony has the largest 1st Party development group and is very consistently purchasing development houses each year. That will guarantee them some PS3 exclusives.


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post #144 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 02:38 PM
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I have 2 buddies who were playing halo 2 right up until #3 was released. For the past two years they've stuck with their original xboxes. The week before halo 3 came out they each went out and bought a premium console. It's a big deal.... People who weren't enticed to buy for gears and other great games are moving systems in record numbers this week.....month.....holiday season.

Halo 3 is only the beginning of an MS stomp fest this holiday season.
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post #145 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezone79 View Post

Both are solid systems that come this time next year should be providing quality games and experiences for all their gamers ad hopefully the debate will swing from which console has more problems to which new game will out do the next.

Lest I be misunderstood, I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree with whomever mentioned the arrogance shown by Sony. I think that is why many instead of lamenting the poor state of affairs today experienced by the PS3 instead take some certain measure of enjoyment in it. It certainly isn't directed towards the owners however, who had every reason to think the system would be a slam-dunk.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #146 of 146 Old 09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
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Reading all this, I guess 360 sales will spike to 500K for September.
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