PS3ToothFairy IR Retrofit/Assembly for PS3 Bluetooth Remotes - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Works has been completed on the PS3ToothFairy IR interface and the site with all the details is now up. So no need to ditch your PS3 remote anymore; Use its brain with the ps3toothfairy to get full IR control of your PS3.

http://www.ps3toothfairy.com

Here are a couple of pictures (more on the site).





It uses the brains of a PS3 remote to operate, AND there will be an plug in module so that you can use the internals of your current PS3 remote. Making it easy enough and no-solder turned out to be more than I anticipated. It won't take more than 10 minutes or so to take the guts form your PS3 remote and plug it into the ps3toothfairy. There is an optional 1/8" distributed IR input and it uses a standard 2.1mm power connector. There will be some subminiature wall packs available, but you could also use any compatible pack you might have. I hope that you find the toothfairy interesting. Feel free to ask any questions/requests here, the contact page, or PM me if you like.

Thanks Ayman
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post #2 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 05:51 AM
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Ok, I'll ask it.

What the hell is with the name?
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post #3 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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The name was just a play on tooth fairy since the PS3 uses bluetooth and the fairy part was enabling something that wasn't there before. It neither enhances nor detracts from the performance. Honest

-ayman
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post #4 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 07:36 AM
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so (assuming you get the complete device) this will receive IR signals and translate them to the BT signals that the current PS3 remote sends. but my remote (HT master 500) needs to "learn" its IR codes, so would i also need to buy the ps2 IR remote to teach its commands to my remote?
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post #5 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 08:24 AM
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Congrats on getting this done Ayman... sorry I couldn't be more help. My wife decided she needed new floors so I've been fully consumed installing hardwood floors.
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post #6 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinee View Post

so (assuming you get the complete device) this will receive IR signals and translate them to the BT signals that the current PS3 remote sends. but my remote (HT master 500) needs to "learn" its IR codes, so would i also need to buy the ps2 IR remote to teach its commands to my remote?

The PS2 (and so this device) use the Sony DVD codes to control the DVD / BluRay. The MX-500 already knows the Sony DVD codes, so almost all of the keys will work right away. The only keys that will not work out of the box are the L1/L2/etc, since these are mapped to the PS2 device code. I don't think the MX-500 provides those.

Option #2, if you are willing to learn the codes to the remote, you can pick up a used PS2 remote. I found one for development at Gamestop used for $5 including the little IR receiver that keep on the version 1 PS2.

Option #3, There are remotes that have or can download the PS2 codes. You could use on of those and then copy the code into the MX-500. There is a device called MX-Clone or something along those lines that provided some kind of download for the MX-500.
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post #7 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 09:25 AM
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Here is a question. Do the 3 IR to BT converts (only one out now (IR2BT) use the same IR language and conversion? If so, couldn't anyone using a Harmony remote download and the IR2BT database commands off the website and be off and running? Or do you think each device will need to operate somewhat differently?

At the very minimum you could use the PS2 commands, you just wouldn't have the PS Button IR command.

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post #8 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymanme View Post

The PS2 (and so this device) use the Sony DVD codes to control the DVD / BluRay.

Then my DirecTV remote should be able to control it since I'm pretty sure it already has the Sony DVD player codes already stored in it. If so I'm intrested in this product as my wife doesn't like using the controller to watch movies.

What is the difference between the $50 and $75 kits?

You should send a sample to the HT guys so they can do a review and get the word out via their Podcast: http://www.htguys.com/ they are big fans of the Harmony Remotes and the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player.

My equipment list is here. Playstation Network ID = jmii ...that's JM roman numeral 2
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post #9 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Here is a question. Do the 3 IR to BT converts (only one out now (IR2BT) use the same IR language and conversion? If so, couldn't anyone using a Harmony remote download and the IR2BT database commands off the website and be off and running? Or do you think each device will need to operate somewhat differently?

I can't speak to what the others have done. But each of them (as far as I know) uses the Sony PS2 device and function IDs. So in that sense, they would work. This device uses sequences in order to access 1) its own special functions and 2) to emulate the combo keys supported by the PS3 bluetooth protocol. Most universal remotes do not support pressing multiple buttons at the same time -- the programmable sequence lets you get around that limitation.
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post #10 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

Then my DirecTV remote should be able to control it since I'm pretty sure it already has the Sony DVD player codes already stored in it. If so I'm intrested in this product as my wife doesn't like using the controller to watch movies.

I have not tried it with that remote, but I do have another receiver remote I have not tried, so I'll give it a shot and make sure things do what I expect.

Quote:


What is the difference between the $50 and $75 kits?

The assembly that is sub-50 doesn't have the direct IR and doesn't have the bluetooth radio. You supply the radio from your existing / purchased PS3 remote and plug it in. Then just screw the chassis back together. It should take no more than 5-10 minutes. We'll provide / post very clear, printable instructions on exactly how to do it. There is no soldering at all. The $75 assembly is ready to go, minus the power supply. Basically, we provide and install the radio and it includes the direct IR input. The direct IR input may be enabled / disabled when you have the ps3toothfairy in programming mode.

Quote:


You should send a sample to the HT guys so they can do a review and get the word out via their Podcast: http://www.htguys.com/ they are big fans of the Harmony Remotes and the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player.

I will do that. Thanks so much for the questions and heads up.
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post #11 of 461 Old 04-15-2008, 12:59 PM
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Just to note - your thread was linked to mine and I've updated the first post. For those interested in these type of products check out this thread (at the very least the first post, until reviews come in). The are 3 of them out for sale now.

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post #12 of 461 Old 04-19-2008, 04:17 PM
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I think the name is awesome -- love it actually. So much easier to say & for the common consumer to remember than ir2bt, imo. In the end though, I suppose it's all about beating the $55 price they've set.
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post #13 of 461 Old 04-19-2008, 04:35 PM
 
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So what code does it use for POWER ON? Is it the PS2 power on button? If so, this still breaks compatibility with a PS2 in the same room, correct?
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post #14 of 461 Old 04-19-2008, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for getting a kick out of the name -- we spent what seems like forever to come up with a name, but it was probably like 1 week off-and-on. As for the PS2 power button ... It uses the same button out of the box. However, you can give the ps3toothfairy a different device ID than what it ships with. You will need a way to change the device id in your remote .. some support that, and some don't. (Think about the little slider that is on some remotes that lets you choose tivo1,tivo2, etc). We will try to have this function added to the Harmony database b/c I don't think on the Harmony you can change it easily.

when you alter the settings of the ps3toothfairy, it saves them and it won't forget them even if you power down. When it starts, it automatically loads all its defaults and looks for an attention command. If it does not see one, then it activates all of your user customizations. The initial startup time is to give you a chance to restore the factory defaults if you configured it and now cannot talk to it anymore (for instance, set a device ID that you can't pick on your remote). You can start it by either cycling the power to it, or holding down your "magic" key for a prescribed length of time.
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post #15 of 461 Old 05-14-2008, 07:07 PM
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How much longer before you anticipate taking orders? Thanks!
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post #16 of 461 Old 05-15-2008, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The assemblies are finished and are on their way to Austin so it should only be a couple of days (hopefully) to get them checked out and programmed. Once we are sure the assemblies are fine, we'll turn on the store. The best way to find out when we start is the opt-in mailing list at http://www.ps3toothfairy.com/listsignup.php. I'll post some other places as well.

If you haven't visited the site, it has been heavily updated with the user manual, some more pictures, and so on. The most value is the manual since it has all the configuration options listed, including how the discrete off works, using the wired IR, power tracking, and how to pair. What isn't up there is the assembly instructions for the kit form, but the picture makes it kind of obvious how it works.

Basically,

(1) take apart the remote; take the module out
(2) place it on the template and snip the little pins on the module
(3) bend the pins downward
(4) insert them into the machine sockets on the ps3toothfairy board (it is #3 in the picture)
(5) plug in the FFC cable on the side
(6) screw it back together

Regarding the machine pins, some people have asked if they make good contact, and the answer is yes. Within each of those tiny sockets there are 4 independent "fingers" that contact the pins. They are called "machine" since that socket is 2 parts. There is the barrel that is attached to the board and the "fingers" are on another insert that is then placed into the barrel.

Again, thanks for your interest!
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post #17 of 461 Old 05-21-2008, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I've opened the store and posted the instructions for how to remove the module from the Sony remote. Ben, who made the IR4PS3 has a pretty cool way of removing the module too. It involves a door, but I haven't seen the pictures of how. In any case, thanks for your support.
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post #18 of 461 Old 05-21-2008, 07:40 PM
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sorry, but too $$$
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post #19 of 461 Old 05-21-2008, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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It is more than I wanted to sell them for, but with a niche product that is just the way things go. Just out of curiousity, what kind of pricing were you hoping for?
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post #20 of 461 Old 05-21-2008, 09:20 PM
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Can the functionality of the PS3toothfairy be used as part of an "Activity" on a Harmony Remote?

Example: Hit "Watch Blu-Ray" button, and it will power up PS3, TV, Reciever, etc?

David
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post #21 of 461 Old 05-21-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymanme View Post

It is more than I wanted to sell them for, but with a niche product that is just the way things go. Just out of curiousity, what kind of pricing were you hoping for?

- I would assume people are looking a solution that would be the same price as the IR2BT since they all do the same thing.
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post #22 of 461 Old 05-22-2008, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidag02 View Post

Can the functionality of the PS3toothfairy be used as part of an "Activity" on a Harmony Remote?

Example: Hit "Watch Blu-Ray" button, and it will power up PS3, TV, Reciever, etc?

Yes since the IR2BT already does that and this functions the same way.

I like how the PS3TF has the configuration mode.

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post #23 of 461 Old 05-22-2008, 08:35 PM
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Just ordered a PS3 ToothFairy.

It should be here next week sometime. I will let everyone know how it works out!

David
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post #24 of 461 Old 05-29-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidag02 View Post

Just ordered a PS3 ToothFairy.

It should be here next week sometime. I will let everyone know how it works out!

Ordered mine on May 22 as well, just received confirmation that it has been shipped today, waiting anxiously.
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post #25 of 461 Old 05-30-2008, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your orders david and x64man. You should get them pretty quick now. It took longer than I thought because we went ahead and powered up, paired, and transmitted all codes for all the first run units. The testing is automated, but it does take time to do the pairing. Let me know if you have questions / issues / tricks / etc (or just post)!

Thanks again.
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post #26 of 461 Old 05-30-2008, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, what might not be apparent in the manual, but fully supported are the combo keys. I.e. the pairing start+enter is not hardcoded anywhere in the device. Basically, the Sony PS3 protocol supports sending up to 18 (i think, might be 16, but some number like that) keys simultaneously.

If you think about it, that part of the protocol is to support the game controller, where you might be pressing L1 and R1 at the same time. So in Sony's firmware and the remote, they just used this same feature to support the Start+enter key.

Now back to the ps3toothfairy. To pair, you press Angle, then Enter, then start. What really happens is that upon seeing Angle, the device says "Ok, hold the next button down after the user releases it from the remote". In effect, you pressed and release enter, but the ps3toothfairy held it down, then you press start, the device now is pressing both start and enter on the remote. Naturally, you can extend this thinking to surmise that doing Angle, Start, Enter would also work, and finally Angle + Some Key + Some other key.

There are hardware restrictions (on the remote, not the ps3toothfairy) that will limit what Combos Sony could use, but that is basically how the combo keys work.

In summary, the device knows nothing about the pairing sequence, what it knows is that you want to press two keys at once, irrespective of what those keys might be.

- ayman
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post #27 of 461 Old 06-02-2008, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Some info about the ps3toothfairy and tricks for the first users ....

Initial Reactions:


The response is positive about the first units that went out, and I thank those that put the faith in us/me to deliver them. The biggest issue right now is that there is an error in the Harmony database with respect to the power off sequence that the ps3toothfairy supports. I'm working with them to get that fixed pretty quick. There are some other keys mapped incorrectly, and those will be fixed, but they don't affect much.

Users that purchased the bare units were able to get them together and working and users with the elite were able to get the remote IR working.

Tips:

Note that you need to enable the wired IR input within the ps3toothfairy configuration. It is option 4, value 2.

The full complement of hex codes understood by the device is now posted on the site, as well as an updated user manual. All the units shipped with a little 4 page manual, but there were a few errors in it that users have been kind enough to report and I've fixed.

Per request, I'll add to the quickstart section a blurb about the Harmony. That will be done once this Harmony database is updated correctly.



Tricks:

The biggest question has come about the use of the mysterious Angle key that is used during pairing the device. You don't need to understand this to use the device, but it might help in the future. Basically, the Angle key acts like a "shift-lock" and holds down whatever the next key pressed until one of
the following happens:
a) 5 seconds goes by
b) You press the same "locked" key again
c) You press a 3rd, unrelated key AND Release the key. For the duration of the press, the ps3toothfairy holds both keys. This is basically how start+enter work. You could also press Angle, Enter, Start -- it does not matter the order other than Angle must come first.

To transmit Angle key, just press it twice, or put the ps3toothfairy into transparent mode and the "overloaded" functions of angle will be hidden. Angle is so rarely used, I doubt you really need to do this.

06/03/08 Discrete Power Off: The harmony database isn't fixed yet, but there is a simple trick to get discrete power macro to work with the ps3toothfairy. In your harmony configuration, add a new DVD Player, Sony DVP-NS72HP. In the soft menus there is an option called "PwrOff" that will trigger the macro in the ps3toothfairy. This is just temporary until the Harmony database issue is resolved.


Questions

How much power does it draw ... a few mA when it is operating.

Is there a way to turn the LED off completely ... not completely, but it is at such reduced power you won't be able to see it unless you stare into it. Just set the brightness to 1. Alternatively, you could tape over the led. The IR sensor is far enough away that it won't be affected.



Thanks everyone ...
- ame
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post #28 of 461 Old 06-03-2008, 06:20 AM
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So, here is my big question. Can I turn the PS3 on with my UR with this device?

PSN: dsanders16
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post #29 of 461 Old 06-03-2008, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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So, here is my big question. Can I turn the PS3 on with my UR with this device?

Big Answer: Yes!
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post #30 of 461 Old 06-03-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:


The biggest issue right now is that there is an error in the Harmony database with respect to the power off sequence that the ps3toothfairy supports. I'm working with them to get that fixed pretty quick.

I am due to receive mine today or tomorrow, do you know when Logitech's database will be corrected.

Thanks

Steve
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