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post #541 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:13 PM
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Am I the only one that is seriously underwhelmed with this demo?? This should be close to the final build. Draw distance is awful, engine sounds like its under water, car physics feels like driving on snow and generally doesn't feel like a game that had 4 years of development. GT has been dethroned by forza.
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post #542 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ You haven't tried to hide your hate of the series in any post you make; why would you say anything different than anti-GT blah-blah-blah now? We know you prefer the Forza 2+ patch they sold for full price called Forza 3. Good for you.... take it elsewhere:


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post #543 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:19 PM
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yup im dling now too.

Ill let you know if i think it is a crappy game....i love racing games...played this one since the day of dawn. If it is sub par im not gonna be impressed!
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post #544 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Am I the only one that is seriously underwhelmed with this demo?? This should be close to the final build. Draw distance is awful, engine sounds like its under water, car physics feels like driving on snow and generally doesn't feel like a game that had 4 years of development. GT has been dethroned by forza.

I agree with everything except for your summary of the driving physics.

As we all know, PD doesn't really do actual demos. This was just meant for the time trial competition, but Sony's calling it a "demo." It really is totally bare bones.

Physics are right on (remember, they're forcing us to use the "professional" physics modeling that was introduced as a separate setting in Prologue), and the framerate is excellent. But the audio is definitely not up to the same standard as Prologue. They also chose one of the most visually uninteresting tracks and one of the least flashy cars.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Sony forced them to call this a "demo," but PD only ever meant it to be a purely functional track solely for the sake of this contest. Because of that, this "demo" favors vehicle physics and course layout over everything else.

Not a smart move if they're trying to appeal to non-gearheads (I'm loving it, but I loved Prologue and am a nut for time trials). Should have done this contest last year and instead released as flashy a demo as possible.

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post #545 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:24 PM
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I'll have to find the link, but I did read that this demo (if you can call it that) is using an earlier build of the game engine. It is mainly a driving physics demo/test. But I like how people are jumping to conclusions on a 200MB download.
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post #546 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by eclipz View Post

It is mainly a driving physics demo/test.

Exactly. It's great fan service, but terrible advertising.

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post #547 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:28 PM
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I don't know... I've been playing forza 3 everyday that I have certain expectations. Personally I like the physics in F3 much better. It may not be totally realistic but its a good balance of real and fun.
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post #548 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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ign.com's impressions match that of many other comments going around. The cars looks great, the single track included is bland on details (like the real life version they note), and the physics are spot on fantastic:

Quote:


December 17, 2009 - It's been a long time coming, but Gran Turismo 5 is almost upon us. While we got a glimpse of the series on the PS3 in the form of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, it's become more apparent that Prologue will not be indicative of what'll be in the final game. From damage to better visuals to a completely redone physics and driving engine, what we're going to see next year (March in Japan, TBD in North America) will be something entirely brand-new.

We're now getting our first taste of the real Gran Turismo 5 with the release of the Gran Turismo 5 Time Trial Challenge, a free demo (of sorts) that's now available worldwide. While damage isn't turned on and builds at TGS and Gamescom have been better in terms of showing off its visual prowess, the Time Trial Challenge allows us to try out the new driving physics, and man, this thing handles like a dream.

Unlike the silky-smooth cockpit experience of Prologue (and basically every GT release before it), this latest offering gives us a look at the rougher, tougher Gran Turismo 5. Your view from behind the steering wheel (which is really how it's meant to be driven) now jostles and jumps as imperfections in the road instantly work their way from the tires and shocks to your virtual pelvis. It's not as flagrant as it is in the likes of Need for Speed Shift, but it's certainly handled well and way better than any previous GT release.

The highlight here though is the tire-to-road handling. The stock and tuned Nissan 370Zs (your only two options in the trial) bite, lunge and roll in response to every steering input in a way that really hasn't been seen in the series before. If you oversteer a little at high speed and then correct your heading with a slight adjustment of the wheel, you'll not only see but feel the car jerk back a bit as the weight shifts and it grips the road properly again. It's very noticeable if you pay attention to this sort of thing, and its inclusion forces you to take into account just one more characteristic that's sure to be unique on every ride, which is great.

Steering is touchier now as well, but in a good way. The smoother but longer steering adjustments have been replaced by quicker motions on the wheel, allowing you to dig into a turn and even intentionally oversteer to swing the back end out a fair bit easier.

Granted, the game is locked to the Professional driving setting, so these characteristics and more "demanding" steering input may be lessened in the Standard setting in the final version, but I honestly couldn't see myself going back at this point. In the past, Professional always seemed to be a bigger challenge and more realistic, but I'm not sure that, for me, it was more fun on a core level than the Standard setting. Now, however, I'm definitely sticking with Polyphony's physics tour-de-force as it now feels as fun as it does challenging.

In terms of graphics, this isn't the showpiece for the game that some folks have been expecting. Perhaps it's because it's a relatively flat and bland course (though that's true to life for this track) rather than featuring lots of buildings and roadside stuff to show off the lighting system, but outside of the cars (which look great), there isn't a lot to see.

Still, that's not the point here, and I love what I've played. The new driving model is, from what I can make of it right now, phenomenal. It'll take some time with another few dozen cars to see how it holds up across multiple vehicle models, but if this is a sign of what's to come, Polyphony has outdone itself.


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post #549 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

I don't know... I've been playing forza 3 everyday that I have certain expectations. Personally I like the physics in F3 much better. It may not be totally realistic but its a good balance of real and fun.

I personally had fun with F3 for a little while, but the game is either too easy (medium difficulty), too hard (on hard), or too frustrating (online). At least with GT, I can get much more into the technical aspect of driving.

EDIT: Just put in first few runs since I dl'ed this late last night. I don't know what I was smokin last night, but I was totally wrong. This demo rocks. Looks great. Sounds great. Feels great. Sure, it's a plain track, but it was clearly chosen for its moderate technical difficulty and relatively brief length. It's a good fit for the time trial contest. I think it's because I hadn't messed with the stock car yet, so the handling felt a little too tight and grippy. But with the normal car, you get a quick sense for the physics modeling. Once you do a few laps in that car and then switch back to the tuned car, it feels like the tuned car practically drives itself.

Since there's no friend option in the leaderboards, we could start posting some times here. Currently, my total time is 3'37.143 (tuned: 1'42.758, normal: 1'54.385). I should be able to get that to about 3'30 with a few more runs.

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post #550 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 09:13 PM
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Well, hmm... to avoid being called a "troll" I'll just say it's better than gt5p for sure. There are a lot of things that have improved, but I guess I have to get used to the game and controller. Would've liked to see how the damage is too... oh well.

Me being Forza whore not helping...

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post #551 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 09:31 PM
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There is a bug that is driving me nuts!
I get a screen freeze several times a lap & it is mostly at turn ins or braking points, very annoying!

All in all it's fun & I did make it up to 9th (RaceVW14) but have slid back to 12th at the moment.

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post #552 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 09:49 PM
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that ign review sounds like it was written by a GT fanboy.

I don't know, I REALLY wanted to like this. I remember sticking in Forza 2 years back and thinking, what a piece of crap. Then getting Prologue and thinking this is how it's done.

But now things have changed. Besides Forza there are other games and sims to consider. I am not feeling this demo in the slightest. Matter of fact, I feel the same disappointment as I did when playing Forza 2 back then

I just spent a couple of hours with it. Now let me say, I always race with assists off and pro physics regardless of game. I just don't feel the cars have any weight to them. It's like they both need new tires. Far too easy to drift, in fact I spend the entire race trying not to drift. I just don't feel like I'm in control of the car. I know I've been playing forza 3 with a wheel and all but when I do pick up the gamepad in Forza, and go a few laps, I can still drive. The gamepad in this thing is miserable. But I think it really has more to do with the physics kinda....dare I say it...sucking.

I've always said, don't confuse "good physics" with over sensitivity, and I'm wondering if that is the case here.

Visually it's lifeless. No tire marks again, very little smoke and would it kill em to update the tire screeching noises? I didn't mind the sound of the cars, but I've always wondered if sticking to a 1080p/60fps was really a smart thing to do in this gen. Its just not that impressive anymore. It's a demo, ok, I get it, but ummm, we are getting pretty close to release date, and even if this was a year old tech demo, that still means several years in production.

200meg size too, make me wonder if textures are stripped back.

Couple of more things. I still hate the default button layout, and for some reason I can't get the layout I want as some buttons just do not get the full list of commands to choose from. I was hoping to finally have the ability to spin the camera around like most race games, alas...notta. Replays suck, and where's the hood cam? That is like the single most used cam. I don't want bumer cam and thats not a typo, and the cockpit view, while exceptional looking....too restrictive

Bottom line, releasing this demo may have been a mistake for them. I'm certainly not rushing out and getting my PS3 wheel setup now that I've seen this. I get the whole tech demo thing, I get that Sony is probably pushing them for ANYTHING before the holidays and this is what they had...but really...is this really "IT"?
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post #553 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

200meg size too, make me wonder if textures are stripped back.

It is quite a bit stripped back, and I think the real mistake was calling this a "demo." It isn't. I'd be interested to know how folks in Japan and Europe are responding to this release. Anyone?

Also with just one car and only two tuning profiles, it's impossible to say much in detail about the physics. Way too premature. With the limited options provided, I think the physics feels excellent.

It was a poor choice as a demo to the general PS3-owning public, but it's great for folks who are already hyped for GT5.

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post #554 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

but really...is this really "IT"?

I'm really hoping not... as a long time GT user I've had a lot more disappointments than anything else. That and again being a Forza whore isn't helping.

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post #555 of 3784 Old 12-17-2009, 10:46 PM
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i'm not impressed. i love racing games and i use a logitech G27 and i'm just not liking how this feels. they really need to improve on their force feedback. it's so blah.

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post #556 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 12:21 AM
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Im not liking the time trial either-lifeless no choice of physics , don't care for the road course etc and to many other good games out now. That being said I loved the previous demo and played the hell out of it and own a wheel, They lost holiday sales by not having it ready by now. Hope they don't lose to many fans having to wait untill march.
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post #557 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 06:16 AM
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Exactly how I feel, I wanted to love this game. I mean, after years of hype, the high res prerendered videos... this game should have blown me away. First thought was, I was constantly sliding all over the place. Also its really hard to judge how fast your going because it can be 40mph or 100mph, visually there is hardly any sense of speed so understeer off the track. BTW, I've autocrossed a 370z, doesn't handle anything like in the game. Maybe it plays better with the wheel, I can't say but with the analog stick this is terrible.
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post #558 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingram View Post

Hope they don't lose to many fans having to wait untill march.

I thought it wasn't due until summer 2010 here?

I'm with the masses so far - unimpressed. Not going to pass judgement yet though, given that it's a 200 meg demo.

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post #559 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 07:16 AM
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Just deleted the demo! Went in for a drive test,...after an hour or so, I tried really hard to like it,....and deleted. To me it was like playing Prologue. Unimpressed!
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post #560 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

BTW, I've autocrossed a 370z, doesn't handle anything like in the game. Maybe it plays better with the wheel, I can't say but with the analog stick this is terrible.

You've autocrossed a 370Z with Analog sticks? Impressive. Talk about apples to oranges. You'll NEVER get the sensation of speed or feedback in a video Sim/game as you would from the real thing. Never mind Analog sticks vs a force feed back wheel. I personally dont see how anybody could use analog sticks on ANY version of Gt and expect it to be close to anything real. Analog sticks SUCK! no matter what version of Gt you are playing.

I guess it boils down to unrealistic expectations brought forth by all the hype and comparisons between Shift, Forza and GT.. people expect this game to Crap gold Bricks with Diamond trim....it just aint gonna happen.
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post #561 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

I guess it boils down to unrealistic expectations brought forth by all the hype and comparisons between Shift, Forza and GT.. people expect this game to Crap gold Bricks with Diamond trim....it just aint gonna happen.

Unfortunately, 4 years of waiting will do that to a person.

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post #562 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 08:22 AM
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I downloaded the demo, and agree with everyone else: It feels flat-out lifeless and boring. I actually own a 350z and have test driven a 370z, and by no means should the 370z feel as lifeless as it does. I understand their goal to make this game feel as close to a simulator as possible, but even with a wheel, there are elements and sensations to driving hard and pushing a car to its limits that this utterly fails to convey.

Its impossible to discuss GT5 without comparing it to Forza, but lets face it, Forza's formula is working better. Forza does a better job of capturing the weight of the cars, the grip of the tires, and the power of the motors without over embelishing. And for anyone thinking that the physics engine in GT5 is going to dramatically improve with the final version, its not. The physics engine is what it is, and unless they want to rebuild the game from scratch and push the development out at least another year, this is a pretty much what the final product will play like.
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post #563 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 08:32 AM
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I tried out the demo last night. I think they are really exaggerating the body roll and diving when braking, not to mention all the bouncing around. Unless Indy just has a terrible surface on the track. It is like the camera isn't securely mounted to the car.

Shadows are really chunky, even inside the car, and don't appear to be anti-aliased. Perhaps they are, but the resolution is so bad that it doesn't make a difference. The shadows from the fence don't fall on the car, they fall UNDER the car, which just looks strange. And in replays, the car's shadows get smeared by the motion blur, as if they are attached to the scenery instead of the car.

There is essentially no difference in tire squealing audio between spinning the tires and turning, and they both sound awful. The audio seems very muffled compared to what I'm used to in Forza, but I race Forza in hood cam, and Forza changes the audio positioning based on where the cam is. In GT, it appears to always keep the player's ears inside the car, which sounds overly muffled to me. The sound from hitting sand is really quite harsh (don't do that and you don't have to hear that ). The music in the menus is AWFUL.

The game is REALLY hard to control with the sixaxis, and I have those trigger extensions. I have a Logitech wheel, but I haven't pulled it out, yet.

The track looks pretty bad. The grass texture is completely flat. Trees still appear to just be flat polygons, but they are now shoved in at different angles to give the appearance that they are 3D.

On a positive side, the cars look absolutely stunning, and the reflections are awesome. They need to apply that kind of attention to the rest of the game.

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post #564 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 09:14 AM
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My feelings are about the same as most. Visually, it didn't look too exciting, and I was sliding all over the place. More with the street than the tuned version of course.

I thought my less than favorable impressions may have been due to the few drinks I had last night before playing, but after reading other impressions I may have been wrong.

Either way I'll try it out some more over the weekend and see what happens.

I am still hopeful that the full game will be more exciting than the "demo."
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post #565 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:06 AM
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Not impressed with the demo. The controls seem off, and the graphics did not 'wow' me at all. Hopefully the full game will make more of an impression.

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post #566 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

You've autocrossed a 370Z with Analog sticks? Impressive. Talk about apples to oranges. You'll NEVER get the sensation of speed or feedback in a video Sim/game as you would from the real thing. Never mind Analog sticks vs a force feed back wheel. I personally dont see how anybody could use analog sticks on ANY version of Gt and expect it to be close to anything real. Analog sticks SUCK! no matter what version of Gt you are playing.

driving in forza with analog stick is quite excellent.
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post #567 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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You guys should just wait a few more months before they release a demo with Arcade option or just stick with the casual racing sim that is Forza 3.

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post #568 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:21 AM
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I played the JDM demo while back, i remember being much better than this. I hope least the final build has better draw distance.
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post #569 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Exactly how I feel, I wanted to love this game. I mean, after years of hype, the high res prerendered videos... this game should have blown me away. First thought was, I was constantly sliding all over the place. Also its really hard to judge how fast your going because it can be 40mph or 100mph, visually there is hardly any sense of speed so understeer off the track. BTW, I've autocrossed a 370z, doesn't handle anything like in the game. Maybe it plays better with the wheel, I can't say but with the analog stick this is terrible.

In my experience, autocross is much more busy than it is fast. Very difficult to get 'on the limit' ideally, since you never get the subtlety needed to truly master a circuit. You get what, 5-6 laps spread out over a couple hours, and the first 1-2 are throwaways to learn the circuit. There's skill there, of course, but it's sort of like playing improv or jazz vs. classical.

Maybe I'm just too old and senile, but I don't consider autocross putting my car 'on the limit' and that's why I don't think it's a good yardstick to judge physics.

Sense of speed is a misleading thing to want. After a while, you get permanenely 'veolocitized' because your sense of time changes. And if it doesn't, you'll never be successful at racing.

Any seasoned driver will tell you that after they've "gone up" a formula the lesser one seems much easier and much slower. Driving a streetcar on an F1-rated roadcourse should be nearly sleep inducing to most seasoned racers.

I agree w/the other comment- this game, if it's representative, will be very difficult played on sixaxis. It's screaming for a wheel.
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post #570 of 3784 Old 12-18-2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colossus View Post

I agree w/the other comment- this game, if it's representative, will be very difficult played on sixaxis. It's screaming for a wheel.

This particular demo is screaming for a wheel because it's aimed at hardcore GT players who will have a chance to be a real race driver. This is what GT Academy is all about. I can't imagine someone with a controller to win this contest, unless that person is really that good. Look at the leaderboard and you'll see that most top times are achieved by using a wheel.

In final built you will have arcade options, driving aids and so on so causal players can have their fun too.

PSN: GeminiEffect
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