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post #631 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 12:56 PM
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I think it's a very good sign that so many Forza fanboi trolls are coming here to bash the new GT5 Time Trial, they are obviously intimidated by it so they feel they must lash out!!

Personally I have been enjoying it & it got me playing Super car Challenge again, it's great to get away from the arcade games like Need for Speed Shift!
Don't get me wrong Shift was a fun diversion but not very challenging because of the physics, Getting the platinum trophy was quick & easy in NFS & I expect to have to work a lot longer & harder to get it in GT5.

Games like Supercar Challenge & the Gran Turismo series require a much higher level of concentration to drive fast, mistakes are punished quickly & severely in these games unlike the more arcade like games like Need for Speed Shift & Grid.

I don't own a xbox but I have played Forza 3 & it's a nice game but the lack of a serious wheel like my G27 really puts me off it a lot more than something like the lack of skid marks!

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post #632 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

We've all let them distract us with all these other meaningless details that I personally could give two s***s about. F*** tire marks and damage modeling.

You could argue that about any eye candy. Why should they care about meaningless details like driver animations, reflections, shadows, lighting, or car models. Why add any track detail? We could all drive around boxes with wheels that have the same physics as a vehicle and the racing would be identical. You would be just as happy with that game, right?

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post #633 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 01:53 PM
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You would be just as happy with that game, right?

Only if it had tire marks.

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post #634 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 02:18 PM
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Well I don't like Forza/PGR a bit but this GT5 demo is really sad IMO (even GT HD is more impressive). I was expecting much more and I hope this is just a hint of the actual game (which is what I am expecting to be the case considering how long they have been working on it). So while this demo disappoints (at least me) I am still expecting to be in awe of the final product.

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post #635 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 02:51 PM
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Are we going to post our times here or start a new thread?

Current ranking: 652
1'39.947 Tuned
1'53.330 Normal
3'33.277 Total

Being able to download the replays of the top driver has helped, they coast (no brakes no gas) alot more then me. I downshift aggressively but they don't and sure enough that was causing me to lose alot of grip. Other then a few tight turns you can coast around in 3rd or 4th gear and put in a decent time by staying smooth. It might be my wheel but I can't get the tight S turn or the last long sweeper to feel right. I've run laps that would have shaved .5 off both times but always screw up somewhere.

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post #636 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 03:04 PM
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You can post your times here since only 5 people are playing it.
Just kidding CALM down!
Seriously I love Grand Turismo and probally played prolouge more than any other game, well maybe except Uncharted2. But I just can't get into the time trial Im just underwelmed by it.
ps-Never played forza. lol
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post #637 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post

I don't own a xbox but I have played Forza 3 & it's a nice game but the lack of a serious wheel like my G27 really puts me off it a lot more than something like the lack of skid marks!

Wheel for wheel the Fanatec is superior technology. Logitech does make a better shifter though. I would kill for an adapter so I could use a G25 (The G27 shifter is a step down from the G25) shifter with my Fanatec.

The belt driven Fanatec is just so smooth and quiet compared to the Logitech wheels.

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Please do not form any opinion of the content of this post, it is still in BETA.

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post #638 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

Turn signals too..and while we are at it..what about weather! It's always sunny bright midday and DRY too!

I would love weather.

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Please do not form any opinion of the content of this post, it is still in BETA.

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post #639 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Only if it had tire marks.

lol

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post #640 of 3784 Old 12-19-2009, 06:11 PM
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DL'd the demo today. Took five laps in the tuned car, and I am only 20 seconds off the record. I am winning that trip!
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post #641 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

Are we going to post our times here or start a new thread?

Current ranking: 652
1'39.947 Tuned
1'53.330 Normal
3'33.277 Total

Current Ranking: 500
1.39.798 Tuned
1.52.142 Normal
3.31.940 Total
I've got quicker laps in me. I just didnt feel like fooling with it anymore. I only turned 2 (full) laps in the Normal car. I got fed up with it spinning out. It seems that you have ZERO chance at catching that car if it oversteers even the slightest bit...you can forget about it. SOMETHING is not right..could be my wheel or traction control settings... Kudos to those who turn faster laps though.
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post #642 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 11:02 AM
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Being able to download the replays of the top driver has helped

How do I do this? I can't find the option.

On the tuned car, what are you guys using for the traction control setting?
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post #643 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayoldschool View Post

How do I do this? I can't find the option.

On the tuned car, what are you guys using for the traction control setting?

Go into the ranking options then select tuned or normal. then click on the name of the person you want to watch. it will give you to watch the replay or download it.

TC on tuned I turned mine down to 4.
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post #644 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 01:16 PM
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I have decided this game sucks without a wheel. I just can't do the controller thing anymore for driving games, unless its arcadey
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post #645 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonies View Post

i have decided this game sucks without a wheel. I just can't do the controller thing anymore for driving games, unless its arcadey

+1
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post #646 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

Current Ranking: 500
1.39.798 Tuned
1.52.142 Normal
3.31.940 Total
I've got quicker laps in me. I just didnt feel like fooling with it anymore. I only turned 2 (full) laps in the Normal car. I got fed up with it spinning out. It seems that you have ZERO chance at catching that car if it oversteers even the slightest bit...you can forget about it. SOMETHING is not right..could be my wheel or traction control settings... Kudos to those who turn faster laps though.

If that's only with 2 laps then your 100X better then me it took a good 3 hours of work to get my times down to the level I posted. I've improved slightly from there but honestly its not fun since a MICRO sized mistake ends your run.

Both cars are just HYPER sensitive to ANY input (throttle, brake, steering). I've heard real drivers talk about applying the gas as if there was an egg under the pedal to avoid spinning out but this game take that to extremes! You have to drive as if your limbs were feathers. If this physics engine represents the final game I'm going to being playing in amateur mode the whole time

BTW I'm using a DF Pro wheel with the traction control at 2.

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post #647 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 03:48 PM
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I can't seem to crack my earlier times (~1'41 and ~1'54), but I can only play this in short bursts.

I've found that I prefer playing a few laps with the normal car and then switching back to the tuned one. Really makes the tuned car feel tight and easy to control by comparison.

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post #648 of 3784 Old 12-20-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

If that's only with 2 laps then your 100X better then me it took a good 3 hours of work to get my times down to the level I posted. I've improved slightly from there but honestly its not fun since a MICRO sized mistake ends your run.

Both cars are just HYPER sensitive to ANY input (throttle, brake, steering). I've heard real drivers talk about applying the gas as if there was an egg under the pedal to avoid spinning out but this game take that to extremes! You have to drive as if your limbs were feathers. If this physics engine represents the final game I'm going to being playing in amateur mode the whole time

BTW I'm using a DF Pro wheel with the traction control at 2.

Yeah it was two full laps with about 10-15 restarts. If I spin I'll just restart the lap. There is something wrong though IMO. There is NO WAY on this Earth a 370Z is going to Oversteer and spin out of control in 3rd Gear going 40 MPH. (unless it's on Ice!) It's Bull crap. I think they have purposley made this demo super sensitive to throttle inputs. I know GT5P had the same thing where a lead foot would lead to spin outs. But this is just ridiculous.
Im using the Logitech DF GT wheel (the one that Polyphony help design) With Traction control on 7!! for the normal car and on 4 for the tuned car. If the final game is like this I'll be doing the same thing I did with GT5P. I will NOT do any RACE that forces you to use "N" series tires.
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post #649 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

Yeah it was two full laps with about 10-15 restarts. If I spin I'll just restart the lap. There is something wrong though IMO. There is NO WAY on this Earth a 370Z is going to Oversteer and spin out of control in 3rd Gear going 40 MPH. (unless it's on Ice!) It's Bull crap. I think they have purposley made this demo super sensitive to throttle inputs. I know GT5P had the same thing where a lead foot would lead to spin outs. But this is just ridiculous.
Im using the Logitech DF GT wheel (the one that Polyphony help design) With Traction control on 7!! for the normal car and on 4 for the tuned car. If the final game is like this I'll be doing the same thing I did with GT5P. I will NOT do any RACE that forces you to use "N" series tires.

"N" series tires? More like "B" for bald

Agree 110% ...some guys on the GTPlanet site are claiming the physics are "near perfect" but I call BS too! I've driven a Mustang and an Infiniti G35, both powerful RWD cars and they are perfectly manageable in 3rd gear.

How do you adjust the traction control on the Normal car? That option is not available for me with the DF Pro wheel. Is that what the little red knob on the DF GT wheel is for?

One nice touch I've noticed: if you go wide and run onto the yellow painted stripes the car slides/slips ever so slightly... that is some serious attention to detail.

I wish there was a way to calibrate the wheel so you could get rid of the super sensitive nature of the controls. I've noticed a very little "tap" of brakes causes them to shoot up to like 50-60% pressure. I guess this is why some people modify the pedals with blocks of foam rubber or stronger springs.

The only way I can play is to drive around very slowly for the first 5 laps, then start increasing my entry and exit speeds. If the car starts to slide I shift UP, that seems to be the only way to stop it from spinning. The engine has plenty of torque thus (like I said before) it seems to be happiest in 3rd gear in most turns. Also a must (for me atleast) to use the Amateur setting for the wheel as it automatically counter-steers.

Another item I just thought of - I wish you could "lighten" your ghost, it should be more see-thru and not so distracting.

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post #650 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 09:18 AM
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Are they adding vehicle damage to the final product? I thought I read that last week, so I was really excited to play this demo but was disappointed b/c it didn't seem any different than GT Prologue. I'm not one to just slam a car into the wall to see it destroyed, I just think if it's going to be the most realistic driving simulator, a car should have realistic wrecks and damage...and skid marks on the pavement too. Seemed like the same old GT I got tired of a few games ago.

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post #651 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

"N" series tires? More like "B" for bald

LOL No kidding. They must be bald. with Vaseline all over them.

Quote:


I've driven a Mustang and an Infiniti G35, both powerful RWD cars and they are perfectly manageable in 3rd gear.

I just dont get it..I've had this complaint about GT and the "N" series tires before. RWD cars are impossible to control with those tires.

Quote:


How do you adjust the traction control on the Normal car? That option is not available for me with the DF Pro wheel. Is that what the little red knob on the DF GT wheel is for?

You have to go into options before you start driving. Unlike GT5P the on the fly adjustments on the wheel (the red knob) seem to be turned off in this Demo.


Quote:


Another item I just thought of - I wish you could "lighten" your ghost, it should be more see-thru and not so distracting

I agree with you there. It does tend to get in the way, and block sight lines. But I have used it as a tool to late brake myself and see if I can carry a lil more speed into and out of a corner.
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post #652 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 10:13 AM
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The physics I'm ok with but my only complaint is that it doesn't give you a proper sense of speed. Maybe it is too much to scale and too realistic lol. If it really felt like I was doing 50mph around a turn, I'd be less obliged to hit the throttle without having to look at the speedometer.

I never drove a race car but I'm pretty sure taking a turn like some on this track at 50MPH you are at the limits of traction so goosing the throttle in a high torque car like this one seems normal that you'd break traction. Also some people still have an "on off" mentality with the throttle and not taking advantage of the full range of acceleration. Just seems like good physics but I can see how some are not liking it if they are more into arcadey games.

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post #653 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

I agree with you there. It does tend to get in the way, and block sight lines. But I have used it as a tool to late brake myself and see if I can carry a lil more speed into and out of a corner.

I looked and looked for a way to turn off the ghost completely. No luck. Hate that thing. The timer is enough to track my run relative to my best time.

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Originally Posted by imdjenk View Post

The physics I'm ok with but my only complaint is that it doesn't give you a proper sense of speed. Maybe it is too much to scale and too realistic lol. If it really felt like I was doing 50mph around a turn, I'd be less obliged to hit the throttle without having to look at the speedometer.

People don't realize how important a sensation gravity is in driving. Without the feeling of G-forces, you have no real sense of momentum (acceleration, deceleration, turning, etc). I honestly think it's the lack of gravity that's causing people to say that this game doesn't feel right.

It's sort of like the "uncanny valley" for racing sims. Usually sims tone down some of the realism to help keep you on the road and keep the game "fun" (like Forza 3). The professional physics modeling in GT is pushing the boundaries of what gamers are usually willing to accept in a racing sim while still thinking a game is fun.

When 19th c. photographer Eadweard Muybridge first showed his famous film footage of a horse in motion to prove that a horse had all four legs in the air during part of its stride, the public found it "unrealistic." There were even cartoons showing horses with legs splayed out in all directions lampooning his photographs. Similar idea here.

The real "issue" may be the touchy accelerator. Because it's a contest, they had to standardize it. But hopefully the final game will let you tune those settings on your wheel.

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post #654 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post


The real "issue" may be the touchy accelerator. Because it's a contest, they had to standardize it. But hopefully the final game will let you tune those settings on your wheel.

You may be right. I watched some of my replays yesterday, and watching my throttle inputs I was spinning out in 3rd gear at 40mph at about 25-30% throttle. You are certainly onto something about the gravity. But again it's something they will never be able to replicate. It seems that Polyphony crossed that too real line (at least with this demo and the "N" tires) The race tires are better on the tuned version, but it's still tricky to keep it under control. (I can live with this though)
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post #655 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 01:13 PM
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TO TURN OFF THE GHOST....

Press up on your d-pad
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post #656 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 01:17 PM
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lol yea I want a refund my 370 came with ice tires they are made of it - have to be! lol have to hook up my wheel and see - still cant wait for full game though -enjoying my psp GT for now.

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post #657 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

People don't realize how important a sensation gravity is in driving. Without the feeling of G-forces, you have no real sense of momentum (acceleration, deceleration, turning, etc). I honestly think it's the lack of gravity that's causing people to say that this game doesn't feel right.

Yep that is the major factor at work here. Since that "seat of your pants" feel is not there its throwing the whole "simulation" off. To me PD should do 3 things to fix this problem.

1) Better tire sounds: There needs to be a clear difference between tires that are squealing (scrubbing off speed) and tires that are slipping due to lose of grip. The sounds have gotten better since GT5:P but its still too generic to warn you of the impending doom. Heck in digital 5.1 surround sound they should be able to make the sound come out of the correct speaker to warn WHICH tire was letting go.

2) Wheel feedback: When the tires are about to let go the wheel should become very lose in your hands. It sort of does this in amateur mode but that's only because its counter-steering for you. I'll have to go back and compare to Ferrari / Super Car Challenge, but I think that game got this particular aspect down much better.

3) Timing of above: since you don't have the G-Forces telling what is going on #1 & #2 need to happen just slightly BEFORE they would in the reality. Since your WATCHING something happen on a screen in front of you need the lead time. Every since GT3 I've noticed the cars always seem to break lose AFTER I thought everything was fine. Its almost like the lag of doing the calculations inside the console results in the timing always feeling like its delayed or off slightly. This is one of the cases where making the game more true-to-life is actually a bad thing.

Would love a way of calibrating the wheel/pedals too since they are clearly over sensitive. I've read some other threads were people are guessing this demo is extra hard on purpose because of the contest and related prizes. However your average gamer might give up on the game based on this demo, so PD is not doing themselves any favors. Like GT5:P they should have had arcade & professional physics as options. Heck at this point it seems they need 4 modes: arcade, intermediate, pro and "I'm a real life rally driver from Finland"

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post #658 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 02:06 PM
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I am digging the game, playing with a DFP wheel. I will admit that the tires on the stock 370 are total crap, but the tuned version makes up for them.

I played quite a while last night, starting with the stock 370. After maybe an hour and a half, I moved on to the tuned unit. After maybe another hour and a half, I went back to the stocker. On the second lap, I cut off another second off my best lap. Plus, having to go slower, I think I found some better lines for a couple of turns.

One thing I noticed with my wheel setup - the brake pedal was slightly sticking at rest, and that was hurting me on the order of 15 to 20 seconds a lap. I had to take apart the pedal assembly and feed a bit more wire in, and everything was golden after that.

I can't remember my exact times, but the stock unit is in the 1:52 range, and the tuned version is in the low 1:39's, which was good for #488 overall(last night at least).
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post #659 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Well I don't like Forza/PGR a bit but this GT5 demo is really sad IMO (even GT HD is more impressive). I was expecting much more and I hope this is just a hint of the actual game (which is what I am expecting to be the case considering how long they have been working on it). So while this demo disappoints (at least me) I am still expecting to be in awe of the final product.

Jason

Too bad this isn't a "demo", it's a time-trial challenge centered around a contest -nothing more. It expires in a few weeks when the contest is over. The past few pages have discussed this, once you filter out all the Forza trolls.

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post #660 of 3784 Old 12-21-2009, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rgdigital View Post

Too bad this isn't a "demo", it's a time-trial challenge centered around a contest -nothing more. It expires in a few weeks when the contest is over. The past few pages have discussed this, once you filter out all the Forza trolls.

I'm no troll and I'll be the first to say this is still a demo. They are demonstrating the new physics engine off of a GT5/GT5P build and tieing it to the competition. The time trial download off of PSN goes down but apparently those who download it within the time period can still play it after they take it off of PSN, kind of like how GTHD demo was downloadable for a short time and could be played after they took it off of PSN. Even PD called this a demo on their main GT site. I think it showcases the physics engine really well even if this demo is limited to 200mb size, no damage, no AI, scaled down visuals and specific to 2 versions of the same car for the Nissan/PD partnered GT Academy. Personally I think this competition and TT demo is a great way to get people talking while continuing GT Academy (which in itself I think is awesome) but I think they slipped up not making it as pretty as it can be since it's obvious (especially this gen) that graphics are the biggest thing that seems to matter to most people.

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