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post #91 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 03:55 PM
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i don't care about damage either. i just want exactly what prologue is, but with tons of tracks and tons of cars. maybe the ability to tune the cars more, changing weather, and night time as well. but even if it was just prologue with more tracks and cars i'd buy it. damage is not important to me.

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post #92 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

All realism is thrown out the window when the only consequence for smashing into a car at 100 mph is a 5 second penalty. On the flipside, its highly unrealistic that a minor bump or driving a few feet off the road carries the same consequences as driving straight into a wall at 100 mph. Kind of ironic that such unrealstic conditions exist in the franchise that dubs itself the 'real driving simulator'

Soooo... you think if you smash into another car at 100MPH.... your car will still run well enough to race?

By your definition, A "Real simulator" would have you wake up in a hospital after that wreck.

Simply put Damage in a Driving simulator is impossible to replicate properly, and still have a fun game. A car driving 100MPH smashing into another car that has slowed down to 30mph.... yeah.... um...neither car would finish that race.
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post #93 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Soooo... you think if you smash into another car at 100MPH.... your car will still run well enough to race?

By your definition, A "Real simulator" would have you wake up in a hospital after that wreck.

Simply put Damage in a Driving simulator is impossible to replicate properly, and still have a fun game. A car driving 100MPH smashing into another car that has slowed down to 30mph.... yeah.... um...neither car would finish that race.



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post #94 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 07:50 PM
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Forza has taken the crown from the GT series since it debuted.

The collision physics are garbage compared to current racers.

Damage is needed.
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post #95 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 08:37 PM
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The poorly implemented damage model crown, yes.

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post #96 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mave198 View Post

Forza has taken the crown from the GT series since it debuted.

The collision physics are garbage compared to current racers.

Damage is needed.

So in Forza... when a car going 100MPH crashes into a car that is going 30MPH... what happens? Black screen, then a hospital?

Cause... I have to say... I dont think that those two cars could continue in a race.

You cant have realistic Damage in a racing simulator... because when two cars crash at high speeds... THEY WONT BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RACE.
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post #97 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

So in Forza... when a car going 100MPH crashes into a car that is going 30MPH... what happens? Black screen, then a hospital?

Cause... I have to say... I dont think that those two cars could continue in a race.

You cant have realistic Damage in a racing simulator... because when two cars crash at high speeds... THEY WONT BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RACE.

yup, so everybody might as well just leave it out. damage in every racing game i have ever played is pretty much a joke. even if your main goal is to destroy the car it still never gets totally destroyed and can still be driven. every racing game with damage still lets you do to much, and still continue to race or at least drive the car.

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post #98 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mave198 View Post

Forza has taken the crown from the GT series since it debuted.

The collision physics are garbage compared to current racers.

Damage is needed.

By which? I'm confused by your post.

Forza (so far) hasn't done much very well. F2 has lots of tracks and lots of cars, but the driving physics are garbage compared to just about any other racing game out there (sim or arcade). The only thing that made F2 memorable was the editor for your car's graphics. Forza 3 looks great graphically, and the video editor sounds fun. Other than that, I haven't seen anything that proves it is "the definitive racing game of this generation."

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post #99 of 3784 Old 08-21-2009, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

By which? I'm confused by your post.

Forza (so far) hasn't done much very well. F2 has lots of tracks and lots of cars, but the driving physics are garbage compared to just about any other racing game out there (sim or arcade). The only thing that made F2 memorable was the editor for your car's graphics. Forza 3 looks great graphically, and the video editor sounds fun. Other than that, I haven't seen anything that proves it is "the definitive racing game of this generation."

i'll have to agree. i never played F2 with a wheel, but going from GT5P to F2 using a controller i'll have to say that GT5P has the better driving/handling physics. all the cars i have drove in F2 have all had way to much over steer, they all felt like they had rocks for tires.

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post #100 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 12:25 AM
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I heard FM3 will be on two discs, LOL.

Can anyone find a link to the wheel stand that is collapsible? I can't remember who made it but I know I saw the link somewhere here on AVS.

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post #101 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by imdjenk View Post

I heard FM3 will be on two discs, LOL.

Can anyone find a link to the wheel stand that is collapsible? I can't remember who made it but I know I saw the link somewhere here on AVS.

http://www.fanatec.de/webshop/new_us...ab4702735e8444

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post #102 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 02:51 AM
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I just think timed penalties are retro thinking for a next gen title. We're in next gen like I've mentioned... damage in a racing game considered to be one of the top console simulators shouldn't even be considered to have or not have. It should be instinct by now.

Even if GT and Forza don't implement damage the best, affecting a car's performance (and visuals) should be in a game that the word simulator is anywhere in the title or referencing the game itself. Again, we are in NEXT GEN

I'm sure some posters on here would be saying something different if that damage video was excellent. I'm glad PD is starting to implement damage. and guys it's not like every race will have crashes but those that do, a better penalty system should be put in place like affecting a car's performance

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post #103 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgdigital View Post

This is what scares me about the younger gaming generation: they believe, like gospel, whatever MS tells them. All consoles will always have their fanboys, but the MS brigade seem to be the most vocal and brash IMO.

*dons flamesuit*

SDF says hi. You only need to look through youtube comparing both GT5 and FM3 to see how many more hits you'll get favoring 1 game
I own both consoles, and plan to pick up both games day 1. I do lean slightly more 1 way than the other but that's based on personal experience. Some, even on here, take things too personal and discredit things without trying them out because of bias

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post #104 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 06:05 AM
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I really don't understand why you folks keep arguing and insulting each other over these games. Either buy them both like me and enjoy the best of both or buy the one you prefer and just have tons of fun. Just be glad there are options!

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post #105 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post

I just think timed penalties are retro thinking for a next gen title. We're in next gen like I've mentioned... damage in a racing game considered to be one of the top console simulators shouldn't even be considered to have or not have. It should be instinct by now.

Even if GT and Forza don't implement damage the best, affecting a car's performance (and visuals) should be in a game that the word simulator is anywhere in the title or referencing the game itself. Again, we are in NEXT GEN

I'm sure some posters on here would be saying something different if that damage video was excellent. I'm glad PD is starting to implement damage. and guys it's not like every race will have crashes but those that do, a better penalty system should be put in place like affecting a car's performance

There is nothing realistic about Damage in a game. "Realistic Damage" cant be done, while allowing drivers to continue to race. Period. If you slide into a barrier at 50MPH, do you think that some scraps on the side of the car is all the damage you will get?

Let me know how well your car contines to drive when someone going 100MPH rams into the back of your car which has slowed to 30 for a turn.
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post #106 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by wirechild73 View Post

I really don't understand why you folks keep arguing and insulting each other over these games. Either buy them both like me and enjoy the best of both or buy the one you prefer and just have tons of fun. Just be glad there are options!

We'll have none of that, calm, level headed, thinking and commenting in this discussion! Keep that sensible stuff out of here. This here is WARZ!
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post #107 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

So in Forza... when a car going 100MPH crashes into a car that is going 30MPH... what happens? Black screen, then a hospital?

Cause... I have to say... I dont think that those two cars could continue in a race.

You cant have realistic Damage in a racing simulator... because when two cars crash at high speeds... THEY WONT BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RACE.

In forza if two cars collide at that speed both of the the cars will be so heavily damaged they really won't be able to finish the race. the transmission, engine, and axles will be completely shot. is it a perfectly realistic system? no. but the consequences are far more believable than a 5 second penalty.
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post #108 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

In forza if two cars collide at that speed both of the the cars will be so heavily damaged they really won't be able to finish the race. the transmission, engine, and axles will be completely shot. is it a perfectly realistic system? no. but the consequences are far more believable than a 5 second penalty.

Yeah, I've had my car in Forza 2 unable to drive faster than 2mph, and only in reverse, and it couldn't even make it up a hill. You have to turn the damage on to "Full" for that to happen. There are two other settings, "Limited" and "Cosmetic." Both of those will let you continue a race. Limited will affect steering and power, but won't completely disable a car. "Full" will definitely disable your car in a big crash.

Doesn't sound like anyone here talking about Forza 2's damage system ever turned it up to full.

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post #109 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by wirechild73 View Post

I really don't understand why you folks keep arguing and insulting each other over these games.

You obviously don't speak Forum-ese.

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post #110 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 11:31 AM
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Cool, thanks. Looing at that pic gave me an idea. I have one of these single arm tv mounts laying around and am thinking about rigging something up. Thinking the wider tv end will be where the pedals go. Will keep you guys posted.


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post #111 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 12:00 PM
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Kotaku has a description of the damage that was present in the Gamescom demo.

http://kotaku.com/5343282/gran-turis...mage-aint-easy

Sounds like it was just superficial. Didn't affect handling or power at all. I'm sure that will change for release, but it does make me wonder how far off the release actually is.

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post #112 of 3784 Old 08-22-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

There is nothing realistic about Damage in a game. "Realistic Damage" cant be done, while allowing drivers to continue to race. Period. If you slide into a barrier at 50MPH, do you think that some scraps on the side of the car is all the damage you will get?

Let me know how well your car contines to drive when someone going 100MPH rams into the back of your car which has slowed to 30 for a turn.

The damage in Forza is more than cosmetic...the aero kit, transmission, engine, axles, and the shocks can all sustain damage that will reflect the performance of your car.

If you slide into a barrier at 50mph in Forza, you'll damage the aero kit, the shocks, and the axles. Ram a car going 30mph at 100mph and your car will barely be drivable.

If the damage is Gran Turismo is only cosmetic, it would be a pointless, gimmicky addition IMO.
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post #113 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 09:31 AM
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Any news on drag racing in GT5? its seems strange to me that something so simple to implement would be left out of the game.
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post #114 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by white_dog View Post

Any news on drag racing in GT5? its seems strange to me that something so simple to implement would be left out of the game.

I could have sworn they showed a clip in one of the videos where it looked like it was dusk with drag racing already.

The 5.0 is here
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post #115 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 03:03 PM
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You guys are missing the point of damage modeling. It's not to make the car look damaged It's to bring the racing closer to reality. If you want truly great times in GT, you take advantage of its weaknesses. Like riding the sides of cars to keep from going off the tracks. You can drive like you're in a derby with GT and not suffer the consequences.

And before you think I'm bashing GT, I'm not bashing GT specifically, but rather I bash all comments on all racers that these games are "so realistic" when most of these comments are made by kids who don't know what a real car feels like, much less what a car feels like at the limits.

I wish people would stop with the realism comments with Forza, GT, etc. Sign up for a BMW driving school or any other driving school that teaches you to take a car to the limit, and then come back and say these games are realistic. You won't be able to. All these games are approximations no matter how much the producers claim it's "millimeter accurate".

Sure you can make the claim that a driving school will make you better at the game and that's quite possible. But then again, you can take a kid who grew up on GT, put them in a real car and they suck a$$.

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As would I, but the problem is that we're in the minority. The Brainless Console Masses(tm) want damage modeling because they suck at racing--and want to have fun sucking at racing by watching their cars get smashed up. Woo! Yeehaw!

Damage modeling has its place (Burnout), but I'm not excited to see it in a GT game.

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post #116 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 03:29 PM
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it is amazing to me that people tend to forget what happened with the hype and release of F2. They used teasers and pics that were tons better then the actual game, and then then went on and on about how great the physics engine was, bragging about the paper specs of what their "great engine" was doing in real time. Then with the release of even the demo, all hopes were shattered, the game was junk. It didn't become the great racer to replace the wonderful forza one. Instead if was paint shop pro for cars..... Forza Paint 2.0. The physics were horrible, over exaggerated, the tracks were boring with no sense of speed and the fanstasy tracks were gone completely.

I'm not holding my breath on either game really, not after the disappointment that was F2.But I will say I enjoyed GT5P tons better then F2. MAybe because it was my first time with the series, not sure, but I gave up on F2 after about 10 hours in
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post #117 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 04:01 PM
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newfmp3, couldn't disagree more. Forza 2 is my favorite racing game. It is particularly fun racing online with a bunch of friends. The physics are just fine. And there were fantasy tracks in Forza 2.

I loved the modification part of Forza 2, in particular. If you had car knowledge, you could really make a car handle and drive very well while staying within the confines of a particular class.

My friends and I had a racing league where we picked a certain car each week and tuned it up to a particular class that we picked. It was amazing how different each car ended up. Then we would race on 4 or 5 tracks a night and keep track of who finished in what position and assign points. It was a blast!

I guess you were disappointed in Forza 2. That's fine, but not everyone was.

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post #118 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 05:24 PM
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newfmp3, couldn't disagree more. Forza 2 is my favorite racing game. It is particularly fun racing online with a bunch of friends. The physics are just fine. And there were fantasy tracks in Forza 2.

I loved the modification part of Forza 2, in particular. If you had car knowledge, you could really make a car handle and drive very well while staying within the confines of a particular class.

My friends and I had a racing league where we picked a certain car each week and tuned it up to a particular class that we picked. It was amazing how different each car ended up. Then we would race on 4 or 5 tracks a night and keep track of who finished in what position and assign points. It was a blast!

I guess you were disappointed in Forza 2. That's fine, but not everyone was.


Yup, not sure what he's is whining about, but F2 was pretty much loved by racing fans when it came out. EVERY game is made to look and play better then it actually does, it's called marketing. The makers of Gran Turismo are some of the worst offenders in this regard.

When GT5 comes out I think I'll avoid any gaming related discussion because the fanboyism is going to be out in full force, much more then it is now.
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post #119 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imdjenk View Post

I heard FM3 will be on two discs, LOL.

Can anyone find a link to the wheel stand that is collapsible? I can't remember who made it but I know I saw the link somewhere here on AVS.

Here is another one:

http://www.wheelstandpro.us/servlet/StoreFront

I have the WSP and absolutely love it. The Fanatec is good as well so you really can't go wrong with either. I chose the WSP because it had a little more adjustability with the post. I think the Fanatec is meant to lock at 90 degrees but the WSP will lock at any angle.
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post #120 of 3784 Old 08-23-2009, 06:46 PM
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I heard FM3 will be on two discs, LOL.

Yes, the 2nd disk can be installed to the hard drive and then put back into its case and left on the shelf. It is basically all cars and tracks from the previous 2 games, updated for this game. So it installs like DLC, but it is included with the game.

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