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post #91 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 08:57 AM
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I repeat, this is not TV lag. NONE of my other games have lag AT ALL, including Rock Band. Joe Blow confirmed in his post exactly what I'm experiencing, it is something within the game that keeps the flippers from actuating at the moment the button is pressed. If you are a die-hard pinball fan like me, this is enough to make the game dang near unplayable. I hope Joe is right and this can be adjusted.

If you are concerned, just download the free demo.
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post #92 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 08:57 AM
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I didn't notice any lag. Of course, I hit the triggers pretty hard--they are sensitive to your touch. But, I am by no means a pinball wizard. It might just not matter for me.

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post #93 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 09:02 AM
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Interesting, flippers should be on/off.
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post #94 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 09:29 AM
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I don't notice any lag and yes there is a setting for flipper "sensitivity" whatever that means. I've done my fair share of lag complaining too...see Killzone 2. Sammy LED DLP (NOT forcing the game to 1080p).
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post #95 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 10:15 AM
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Having played fighting games at tournament level for over a decade, I am hyper-sensitive to input lag and can notice it instantly, whether it is by game design or if it is due to laggy HDTVs. Not only that, I've played a ton of pinball, both real and in video game form.

There is definitely a very slight delay in Zen Pinball, both in the flippers and the nudge feature. Your inputs aren't instantly translated into action on the screen. It isn't my HDTV.... I specifically chose my display because it can handle 60 fps with no detectable lag (as long as the visual enhancers are turned off of course).

By comparison, I've played other older pinball games on my PC which is hooked into my HDTV via DVI-->HDMI connection and I get an an instant response with the flippers and nudge. In Zen Pinball I have had to train myself to hit the flippers early so that the ball would go where my reflexes know it should go.


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post #96 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 10:19 AM
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Yeah, the lag is very slight but it is definitely there.
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post #97 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

In Zen Pinball I have had to train myself to hit the flippers early so that the ball would go where my reflexes know it should go.

The problem is, when you get to advanced play, there's no way of predicting where the ball will be like that. Any hardcore pinball player knows what I'm talking about, but it's almost impossible for me to describe what I mean.
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post #98 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 11:07 AM
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To be fair, at least with nudge, it would take a split second for your muscles to react to the neurological impulse and be able to effect movement of the table. It's a lot easier to nudge a virtual table with the flick of your thumb than to nudge a real table!
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post #99 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 11:28 AM
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I don't mind the nudge as much (except when it literally does not register), but I hope the flippers can be tweaked to my liking.

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post #100 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 12:47 PM
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I don't think any video game could please a real hardcore pinballer. I wish I had the dough for Medieval Madness. Was just looking online and saw one for $13K !!!!

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post #101 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 01:37 PM
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This game is very fun. I'll probably buy it. I used to test pinball games for Midway and I totally appreciate this game. It seems reasonably complex. I just wish the monitor was vertical It seems so squished into the frame. Oh well.

BTW the best pinball game of all time is Theater of Magic.

Midieval Madness is GREAT too.
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post #102 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking forward to trying this demo over the weekend. Man, this having-a-job thing is a bitch. I have to schedule time to try out a freaking demo.

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post #103 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf Byte View Post

I don't think any video game could please a real hardcore pinballer. I wish I had the dough for Medieval Madness. Was just looking online and saw one for $13K !!!!

That's crazy. Action Pinball sold Twilight Zone for under 7K and is selling Firepower right now for $3700. Their machines are in superb condition too.

I'm liking Zen more and more each time I play it. Tesla is such a cool table. I love the sounds.
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post #104 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 06:49 PM
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post #105 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 08:56 PM
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Yep about what I would give it from the demo. I was thinking 7 , 8 at tops. I'll end up buying it just things are tight atm I went on spending spree the other day. So I do look forward to getting it. I wish sprint had given this game to us free instead of the other new game this week.

The ball speed is to fast just that simple, the lag issue also as pointed out is there slightly. But again timeshock blows this away and it's 12 years old, that's just sad if you ask me. Can you tweak ball speed or anything like that in the options.

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post #106 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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There's a "Ball Physics" slider in the options, I didn't mess with it though.

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post #107 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

Yep about what I would give it from the demo. I was thinking 7 , 8 at tops. I'll end up buying it just things are tight atm I went on spending spree the other day. So I do look forward to getting it. I wish sprint had given this game to us free instead of the other new game this week.

The ball speed is to fast just that simple, the lag issue also as pointed out is there slightly. But again timeshock blows this away and it's 12 years old, that's just sad if you ask me. Can you tweak ball speed or anything like that in the options.

Please, one more time.

Ragdoll came out last month (and was probably not selling much anymore) and I'm sure Sprint couldn't just pick any game they wanted. Sony would be brain dead to do that for a brand new game. It would never get any sales.

Zen is not half has bad as you so desperately keep trying to make it out to be.
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post #108 of 239 Old 05-15-2009, 11:54 PM
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Zen is officially GREAT! You get perfect flipper response with max sensitivity, but make sure you change it for BOTH sets of flippers on all four tables. The game will still put you on the leaderboards unlike other changes you may make, like extra balls to start with.

Anyone who wants some fantastic pinball action should get this game. It's quickly one of my favorite PSN games.

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post #109 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 01:27 AM
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now i only need to know how to get all trophies.

anybody have a guide or something for it or any link?

thanks
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post #110 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

But again timeshock blows this away and it's 12 years old, that's just sad if you ask me.

I think we gotcha the first dozon times you said this.

Anyhow, I keep replaying the demo, so I should just go ahead and buy the full game already. I just can't seem to bring myself to pull the trigger. Anyone care to convince me?

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post #111 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 04:15 AM
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Confidence, the Tesla table is 10x cooler than Eldorodo and it's much easier to see the top of the table with view 3.
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post #112 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 05:48 AM
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does anyone know how this game compares to an older game called timeshock?
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post #113 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Zen is officially GREAT! You get perfect flipper response with max sensitivity, but make sure you change it for BOTH sets of flippers on all four tables. The game will still put you on the leaderboards unlike other changes you may make, like extra balls to start with.

Anyone who wants some fantastic pinball action should get this game. It's quickly one of my favorite PSN games.

Joe,

How do you change flipper response to max sensitivity? I don't see that as an option. Are you playing it on a PS3? I really want to get into this game but can't because of the flipper lag.
Thanks
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post #114 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 07:22 AM
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I have zero flipper lag.

Must be the displays some players are using.
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post #115 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 10:20 AM
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Please, one more time.

Compared to timeshock it is more than twice as bad. It's worse in every single way. Yeah I know you get it already , I'm just making sure. Stop trying to pass this zen off as the end all be all of pinball. When frankly it isn't even the 2nd best pinball game made. Hell it's probably not even in the top 5.

But is it fun, sure. Worth $10 bucks , probably. The dopey ball physics are annoying to me the most. The balls so damn abnormally fast its annoying when you flip the ball and its back around through shoots and by before you can even hit the button again. The online play and updates in future are cool features.

It just sucks that in 2009 this is the best they could come up with , it's silly pinball. Not simulation pinball. But doesn't mean it's not fun. I just keep bringing up timeshock because it's hands down the best pinball sim ever made. And I assume some people here or coming into this thread wouldn't mind knowing that so they can enjoy it. Is that so bad. It if bugs you don't read my post.

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post #116 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

Please, one more time.

Compared to timeshock it is more than twice as bad. It's worse in every single way. Yeah I know you get it already , I'm just making sure. Stop trying to pass this zen off as the end all be all of pinball. When frankly it isn't even the 2nd best pinball game made. Hell it's probably not even in the top 5.

But is it fun, sure. Worth $10 bucks , probably. The dopey ball physics are annoying to me the most. The balls so damn abnormally fast its annoying when you flip the ball and its back around through shoots and by before you can even hit the button again. The online play and updates in future are cool features.

It just sucks that in 2009 this is the best they could come up with , it's silly pinball. Not simulation pinball. But doesn't mean it's not fun. I just keep bringing up timeshock because it's hands down the best pinball sim ever made. And I assume some people here or coming into this thread wouldn't mind knowing that so they can enjoy it. Is that so bad. It if bugs you don't read my post.

Did you mess with the physics settings at all?

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post #117 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

Please, one more time.

No, NOT one more time. You like Timeshock.... congrats and have a cookie. We stopped caring after the third time you brought it up. Go to the PC forum and make a thread-shrine for it if you wish, but stop cluttering up this thread with the same story told 1,000 different ways.

Back on topic....

mave198: the fact that you can double the sensitivity in the option menu proves that you are having problems detecting lag. If the flippers were lag free by default, then it would be impossible to increase sensitivity. You can't have less than zero lag of course.

I think the developer made it this way because of the analog triggers sometimes makes holding the ball with a flipper a little tricky since the slightest finger movement will re-trigger the flipper accidentally. It happened to me twice, but it isn't a major problem honestly.

waiverman: For EACH table (a table has to be loaded up first), do the following....

Start
Operator's Menu
Utilities
Extra Adjustments
--Lower arms sensitivity (on Tesla, set it to a max of .15)
--Upper arms sensitivity (on Tesla, set it to a max of .00)


Save your settings, do the same for the other three tables and you are done! These changes don't affect your ability to get on the scoreboard.

Martez: Yeah, you can adjust the pitch angle of the table to affect gravity and slow down / speed up the ball, as well as make changes to the rubber ring location, though I don't know what that does.

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post #118 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

Compared to timeshock it is more than twice as bad.

If Zen is more than twice as bad as Timeshock, and Alien Crush is more than half as good as the Williams Collection, but Metroid Prime Pinball is only a third as mediocre as Pinball Quest, and Timeshock is at least as good as Metroid Prime Pinball, and the Williams Collection is almost as bad as Zen, then how much time have I wasted trying to quantify subjective tastes of pinball video games?

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post #119 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't forget Pokemon Pinball

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post #120 of 239 Old 05-16-2009, 12:01 PM
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I've never played timeshock, but I also find the demo weak. I wasn't worried about the slight lag until it I found it handicapping my play. Even the menus have lag like KZ2... j/k.

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