Ps3 audio calibration woes (long and stressful!) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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My Setup

Onkyo 607 - Aperion Audio 6"Towers, 5"Center, 4"Rears, no sub.

The room is a rectangle with rear speakers about 5" above the sofa on each end firing downwards (to towards the center of the room). With every Ps3 game I play, the rears are louder than the fronts by far.


***solution: Dyn Vol was over boosting the rears. For games set DYN VOL to OFF.***
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post #2 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 09:34 PM
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Here is my opinion and only my opinion.

1. The Audessey is probably correct for your room type and set up. That said...

2. It is generally accepted across the world of calibration for both Audio and Video that you should use what sounds/looks better to you since your the one listening and watching. Right? That being said....

3. I initially had the same problem with my Denon 1909. I've never, ever listed to anything with the rears set higher than what I was used to. So after making a mental decision to allow the Audessey to tell me what was correct, I left that setting high for a few months and now I can tell you that I love the higher volume surrounds. Especially with DTS-MA, TRUEHD and LPCM MultiCh. The crispness out of the backs is phenomenal and I don't know how I would ever go back. lol


But as always, YMMV.

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post #3 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 09:40 PM
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Honestly, for basic level adjustments, I just use my ears. Using the level adjustment in the Onkyo setup menu, I sit in my ideal spot and close my eyes and level out the sound between speakers. Audessy and an spl meter can give you a good baseline, but there's nothing wrong with just bumping up your fronts and center (or bumping down your rears). But as dogdoctor says, sometimes it's just a matter of what your ears are used to.

Getting exact meter readings is nice, but it's not particularly natural or true to your own listening habits. You're rarely sitting in the same place and levels can vary so widely between material that level adjustments are really just a best guess--even with the most precise measurements.

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post #4 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 10:47 PM
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Audussey screwed me up soo bad as well.

From my personal experience the real problem with Audussey isn't the level calibration or the distance settings (which are obviously wrong just from looking at them) but the equalizer. With it on, the wrong tones get emphasized . So you get random "WTF is wrong" problems ranging from a speaker sounding louder then the rest or dialogue getting muffled.

My advice is just disable the equalizer (unless you have the tools to properly calibrate it) then use your meter and go through all the speakers level calibration by hand. Audussey is a short cut I wouldn't be using. Also on higher end THX-certfied Onkyo receivers it says 82 is the reference level so a good guess would be it is the same on the lower-end models just without us knowing it.

Oh and Multichan(el) is the right setting to use on your Receiver. As for the PS3, I would leave the 7.1 settings enabled just to make sure that one random time you would down-step to a lossy codec from 7.1 wouldn't happen and take the loss of the 2 surround backs (which odds are would carry the same info are the surrounds)
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post #5 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 10:56 PM
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Judge by blu-rays. Do you get the same problems? Games often aren't mixed well. I'm assuming everything is wired correctly.
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post #6 of 44 Old 05-10-2010, 11:15 PM
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I have the onkyo 605's and i just bumped up my LCR to + 2dB and left the rear channels 0. Works fine.

Zero out the levels and swap the fronts LR to rear LR and see if you have the same outcome.
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post #7 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 06:58 AM
 
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Issue is resolved it seems.
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post #8 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 08:32 AM
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do you have audyssey dynamic eq on? if so, turn it off and do some tests to see if it solves the problem.

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post #9 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 10:40 AM
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Not to thread jack but i have an onkyo 606, and i finallt did my audyssey setup. I see audyssey on the receivers lcd but no dynamic eq. How come? And how do you turn it off.
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post #10 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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perpetual: I have it on (since its required to have dynamic volume). I will perform testing again with it off. Thanks.
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post #11 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 11:54 AM
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Any blu-ray will do. You state that your rears are louder than the front. Watching a blu-ray will at least let you know if everything is the way it should be because the voices and primary audio will be coming from the front speakers in practically all movies. If you notice that the rears are louder while watching a blu-ray, then something is wrong with the set-up. If it sounds normal, then you know the video game mix is bad, which is not uncommon. Movies are often mixed far better than video games, not the other way around.

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tfoltz: what blueray can I buy which can help? Movies do not provide the ability that a game would to really control where the sound should becoming from.

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post #12 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


You state that your rears are louder than the front. Watching a blu-ray will at least let you know if everything is the way it should be because the voices and primary audio will be coming from the front speakers in practically all movies.

Yes, movies sound absolutely perfect. The rear surround only occurs during certain scenes/explosions and such - therefore wouldnt be a good point of reference. If I had a DVD which created a sound which should be heard through all speakers in a sequential order that would help. Unfortunately I dont
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post #13 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:18 PM
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Use the internal test tones in the Onkyo.
Go through each speaker one by one.

What I suggest is to
1) change position of the rear speaker.
-You want them to be directly to your Left/Right, and do not angle down unless the tweeters are higher than 7feet off the ground.

2) re-run Audyssy

3) do the internal test tone sweep through the Onkyo.
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post #14 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRace View Post

Use the internal test tones in the Onkyo.
Go through each speaker one by one.

This. You don't need trained ears to even out the levels using the test tones.

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post #15 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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JRace: I cant change the speaker position but I can angle them "straight"

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post #16 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:49 PM
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If movies sound perfect, and the game sounds wrong, then it seems likely that the game is the problem. Perhaps the games are just providing too much emphasis on the rears (which you can't control beyond turning down the rears, though if you do so the rears will also be quieter while watching movies...something you may or may not care about); or, as one poster mentioned earlier, the dynamic volume may not be adjusting well to the game (I only use the equalizer while watching TV). When I play Bad Company 2, the rears are very loud, and I figure it's because they designed it so that all speakers output similar volumes and the rears sound loud because I am sitting closer to them. This is just the way the game was designed.

However, you say the rears are 3x louder, which is pretty significant, so there may be other issues not yet addressed. It's hard to discuss audio without being there to hear it! Also, it should be noted that there were some posts in the 360 MW2 thread stating that there is no center channel in that game http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1195504 . I have the game and never really paid attention to it, so I'm not sure if the PS3 had the same issues.

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Yes, movies sound absolutely perfect. The rear surround only occurs during certain scenes/explosions and such ...

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post #17 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I shouldn't have said that. Movies sound perfect in the sense that vocals come out the center channel (ie there is no mis-wiring of the system). However there is absolutely no way for me to guage how loud the rears should sound during a movie. If a car goes flying across the screen and crashes behind me who am I to judge how loud that crash should be? So with a setting of -2 or +2 on the rear speakers its hard for me to guage which is right. Make sense? Thanks for all the tips
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post #18 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 01:07 PM
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The rears will almost always be a secondary effect while watching movies, and thus not overly loud (your descriptions make it seem like they are pretty darn loud). What blu-rays do you have? Maybe we can compare scenes on rear speaker loudness factor.
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post #19 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

I guess I shouldn't have said that. Movies sound perfect in the sense that vocals come out the center channel (ie there is no mis-wiring of the system). However there is absolutely no way for me to guage how loud the rears should sound during a movie. If a car goes flying across the screen and crashes behind me who am I to judge how loud that crash should be? So with a setting of -2 or +2 on the rear speakers its hard for me to guage which is right. Make sense? Thanks for all the tips

For movies, your rears should be hardly noticeable. They should "accent" the sound, not dominate it. You shouldn't feel like you're "in" the movie.

In games, however, positional audio is mixed to be much more equal in all directions. For games, your rears will sound nearly equal to your fronts, especially in a first person shooter (where you should sound like you're "in" the game).

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post #20 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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For reference - In a first person shooter..

I'f I take the character and face him towards a steady sound - then turn the control stick to the left so that he "spins" - the sound levels go loud (rears)..then low (fronts).. then loud .. then low.. as the "sound object" changes from front to rear. Hope i explained that clear. I'd think ideally the sound should travel from speaker to speaker at a even level.

Are there any DVD's that will offer this capability? like a surround sound "demo" dvd? Should I face the rear speakers up forward so they do not angle down?
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post #21 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Also remember - the rears sound loud - but the SPL meter disagrees.. They register lower. I will run tests tonight and report back. Thanks
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post #22 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 02:25 PM
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At the height they are I would leave them angled.

The more you describe the problem the more it sounds like a fault of the game, and not your system.
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post #23 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 02:25 PM
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Deff odd bro, I know what your saying about the sound as I've seen that in other games too. ( rainbow 6 vegas 2 , COD:MW2, BF:BC2 etc ) I think its a normal aspect of the game and it not having great sound blending or whatever its called.
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post #24 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 03:55 PM
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I'm certain that part your problem is the game itself and also audyssey dynamic eq. it compensates when you deviate from the reference level. this is the reason that you won't see the difference when testing levels with an spl meter and the receivers internal test tones. I have the same issue but doesn't bother me much. if you raise the volume to reference level and test your game again, there shouldn't be a difference because there won't be any compensation.

I've noticed this a lot while playing FPS where you can actually turn and hear the same sound coming from each speaker.

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post #25 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroneeyedboh View Post

Not to thread jack but i have an onkyo 606, and i finallt did my audyssey setup. I see audyssey on the receivers lcd but no dynamic eq. How come? And how do you turn it off.

once you've done the audyssey calibration, I believe the setting is in the audio adjust under the audyssey section. at least that's where it is in my onkyo

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post #26 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 05:28 PM
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OP you have to remember the magic, or lack of it, in Audyssey is actually the equalizer. So if it has 250hz +6 and 2500hz -4 on a speaker then no matter what db level you choose, one sound or the other may be incorrect.

IMO you really need to get a copy of Avia for its "WideBand Pink Noise" test tones (or find them online) because the ones built into the Onkyo receiver are noticeably lower quality. Then before you start disable/put the EQ to off and set all the speakers to full range. On the meter use A weighted (if you don't like the results, redo with C) and slow.

(1) Play the test tone on each speaker with the receiver's volume set to 82 and adjust until the speakers are each around 75db. (2) After which play the "WideBand Asynchronous Pink Noise, 5 channel" to check if the overall SPL of your system is 85db. If not, then adjust all the speakers by the same db until it does. After which redo (1) and since you have no designated subwoofer you're done. (you could put back the x'over for the rears too, if you want)

As for the EQ, unless you can easily tell something is off, just leave it disabled.
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post #27 of 44 Old 05-11-2010, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey EQ was the long pole in the tent!

I disabled it and set the levels to what audyssey thought was correct, and voila the system sounded amazing!

The fronts developed life! and the rears remained the same.

This is both exciting and disappointing since Audyssey EQ is important in taming loud commercials.

Overall the system sounds great thank you all for the help.

Something is a bit funky with the rears still, both rear speakers measure lower than the fronts with a SPL meter yet sound just as loud to the naked ear.

The rear left especially.. It registers lower than RR and other speakers yet it sounds loud! Maybe its my apartment..
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post #28 of 44 Old 05-12-2010, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Ran Audyssey again.. widened my front speakers a bit.

The values were:

Distance

L 8
R 8
C 8
SL 5
SR 5

Levels

L -9
C -11
R -9
SL -2
SR -2

Sounds great

I'll bump the voice up to -9 for more dialog.

Thanks all!
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post #29 of 44 Old 05-12-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroneeyedboh View Post

Not to thread jack but i have an onkyo 606, and i finallt did my audyssey setup. I see audyssey on the receivers lcd but no dynamic eq. How come? And how do you turn it off.

Everything following the bolded section is thread-jacking.

I believe you meant to type "Sorry to thread jack--".
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post #30 of 44 Old 05-12-2010, 07:51 PM
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OP - do not judge it by games. Hollywood has strict guidelines and standards for production, games do not.

I remember Uncharted sounding very "rear-heavy". I have an onkyo 805 properly calibrated with Audyssey engaged.
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