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post #31 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SharpOne View Post

Sounds great, only thing is most of this stuff is so old, I've already bought it, or don't want it.

Where's the value in that?

Then don't buy it.

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post #32 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MrHunt View Post

Might only be future episodes... next Qore should be up next Tuesday I think... until then who knows.

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post #33 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

There's no way around the 2x dipping when stuff like this comes around. For instance, if you've already purchased the free games they offer, then you are getting less for your $50 than another PS+ user who hasn't purchased those titles. Qore is similar in that regard. Instead of pro-rating every possibility, I guess they have one price for everything.

See here is where I differ. If I bought a game (aka Wipeout) like I did when it came out, I wouldn't expect a refund from Sony for going to PS+. It was my choice to purchase that all sales are final single item/transaction content. With a subscription base content (ala Qore), I've paid for content that I haven't yet received. Chosing to cancel now idealistically should be an option since they now added what appears to be the same subscription but with better service. And it would be easy to do. $2.08/ epsisode left on you sub returned if you purchase PS+. I understand Qore is in that all sales are final camp, but Sony did just seriously screw over a subscription favoring consumer base that is/would be all over this PS+.

And I just thought of something. I would have to be hit with the double dip no matter what. Since PS+ needs to be DL'd on my Main Account, my shared sub acct that has Qore on it will be finished. This was a good move on Sony's part because I foresee using sub accounts to share DL content will decrease accross the board as the discounts in the PS store will only apply to the main account with PS+. I suspect I'll still share because a game at 1/5 the price is still better than most discounts and we'll get to keep the games even if PS+ flops.

Do you think anyone considered the rammifcation to those kids that play on sub account because they are under 18 but then can't convert that account to a main acount to take advantage of this PS+. Sucks to be them.

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Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

I was under the impression that if you downloaded them, they'd show up in your download history for you to download to your heart's content.

It's only if you never downloaded it in the first place, and it disappeared from the PS+ list, that you would be SOL.

That was my impression too.

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If a game is removed from the servers for dload, it doesn't show up on your dload list anymore. I once tried to look up something from way back (I think it was Tekken 5 DR Online) and it was gone.

Really, I could swear that nothing is missing from my DL history list. But then again I never downloaded Tekken so I can't compare. Are you sure you didn't DL it on another account.

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Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Maybe the remainder of your Qore subscription will keep appearing in your download list? I haven't read where the remainder is forfeit or anything. Let us know if it appears next month.

Mine will have to. It will be DL on a completely different account than the one that will have PS+.
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Originally Posted by rwings01 View Post

Hi,

I purchased the PSN+ and have access to everything except Qore. When I go to download Qore,it's asking m to pay $24.99cdn. Isn't it supposed to be free with the purchase of PSN+?

thanks in advance

rwings

If you do in fact get it, don't go through the store. Go directly to you DL history list as it should already be there for you to DL. It may not appear for you till next month though.

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post #34 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

See here is where I differ. If I bought a game (aka Wipeout) like I did when it came out, I wouldn't expect a refund from Sony for going to PS+. It was my choice to purchase that all sales are final single item/transaction content. With a subscription base content (ala Qore), I've paid for content that I haven't yet received. Chosing to cancel now idealistically should be an option since they now added what appears to be the same subscription but with better service. And it would be easy to do. $2.08/ epsisode left on you sub returned if you purchase PS+. I understand Qore is in that all sales are final camp, but Sony did just seriously screw over a subscription favoring consumer base that is/would be all over this PS+.

You paid for a year of a service. You are still getting that service. Just because that service is sold in other packages doesn't mean you should get a refund for your original purchase, even if partial. It is up to the consumer to decide if the newer service is worth paying for since they are already committed to some of the content offered - just like those who must consider if the free games are worth it if they already bought most of them.

Either way, gamers in both examples are over paying if they get PS+. They have to decide if it is still worth it.

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post #35 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
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Before seeing the list of free DLC I was leaning toward not getting it. But I picked up Magic Orbz for $5 a few months ago, so getting to play all the DLC would be nice for this and possibly other games I have down the road. Tempted again. I wish I knew if US was getting Zen Pinball for sure in August like EU is. There seem to be a number of differences between what each region is getting in July as it is.
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post #36 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 12:37 PM
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Signed up.

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post #37 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

You paid for a year of a service. You are still getting that service. Just because that service is sold in other packages doesn't mean you should get a refund for your original purchase, even if partial. It is up to the consumer to decide if the newer service is worth paying for since they are already committed to some of the content offered - just like those who must consider if the free games are worth it if they already bought most of them.

Either way, gamers in both examples are over paying if they get PS+. They have to decide if it is still worth it.

I just wish companies like Sony would think about these things a little more. For most of the folks, it really isn't about the money since Qore isn't pricey, but more the principle of the situation.

By bundling Qore into the PS+ service, it is technically screwing your customers. To be honest, I can't think of one company that sells one service, then sells another service right after for a little more money, yet offers the first service as part of the deal, but doesn't do anything to the clients that purchased the first service. It just feels wierd.

When it comes to gaming, I tend to support most services that are offered as I like supporting the game companies, however, some moves just aren't good PR moves and this is one of them.

In a week, we can all guarantee to an article will be published somewhere that will probably make CNN or the Wall Street Journal that will be titiled, "Yet another blunder by Sony", or "Sony cheats current customers out of Qore".

Sometimes I think Sony really doesn't care about it's PR image, but as long as they keep making money, they really don't need to care.

Regardless, I will sign up tonight as there are some freebies that I want and I will get my $50 + current Qore value out of it.

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post #38 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 12:53 PM
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What exactly is Qore, anyway? My understanding is that it's just an infomertial for upcoming games and video content and early/exclusive access to a few demos? Sure, it is an obvious perk to throw into the PSN plus package, but not the star attraction by any means, IMO.
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post #39 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bgarner View Post

I just wish companies like Sony would think about these things a little more. For most of the folks, it really isn't about the money since Qore isn't pricey, but more the principle of the situation.

By bundling Qore into the PS+ service, it is technically screwing your customers. To be honest, I can't think of one company that sells one service, then sells another service right after for a little more money, yet offers the first service as part of the deal, but doesn't do anything to the clients that purchased the first service. It just feels wierd.

Qore is already a year old this month. There are plenty of people who signed on to it early on that have subscriptions running out, and they can make a smooth transition to PS+ if they wish. You make it sound like Qore launched last Tuesday.

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post #40 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

You paid for a year of a service. You are still getting that service. Just because that service is sold in other packages doesn't mean you should get a refund for your original purchase, even if partial. It is up to the consumer to decide if the newer service is worth paying for since they are already committed to some of the content offered - just like those who must consider if the free games are worth it if they already bought most of them.

Either way, gamers in both examples are over paying if they get PS+. They have to decide if it is still worth it.

Joe, as always by the letter of the contract you are right. It doesn't make it right though, especially in a PR setting. bgarner says it best. It's the principle of the matter. I too can't think of any service provided that wouldn't offer a price or seperate incentive to the current client base to move towards the new and improved service.

From reading the Qore threads, I also don't think Qore members want a full refund (that is unless they bought Qore last month which has to bite). Most just want a prorated refund towards the purchase of PS+.

And Joe, look it doesn't affect me. I'm screwed eitherway. I'm debating this issue because for some people out there, Sony just burned them a little.

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post #41 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Qore is already a year old this month. There are plenty of people who signed on to Qore early on that have subscriptions running out, and they can make a smooth transition to PS+ if they wish. You make it seem like Qore launched last Tuesday.

Qore runs all the time. It 12 months start as soon as you decide to sign up for it. So if you signed up in the last few months - yes it can certainly feel like you signed up last Tuesday. Now why anyone would have bought into Qore after E3 talks of PS+ would be beyone me. I think I still have 5 months left of my current sub. I wouldn't say that it's just running out.

On a side note, I've got a sick feeling that if you don't jump on plus now, come the "next big release" you might be stuck in the middle of your $50 PS+ when new improved comes out for $75. Just a thought.

Does anyone know when Qore originally launched? EDIT: 06/08 Shocker. So unless you got in on release and subscribed again in 6/09, most everyone else will be in some variation of Qore overlapping with PS+.

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post #42 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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As I said in my last post, why aren't these early adopters of Qore simply signing on to PS+ after Qore runs out if this issue is important to them? It's not as if gamers with this concern HAVE to get PS+ on day one.

I guess if you only got Qore six months ago you might not think it is worth it for them, but of the PSN games they are offering on PS+ at a discount or for "free", I already have the ones I want (WOHD, Mahjong, etc.) so I feel the same way they do in thinking the value might not be right for my situation.

Do I expect a prorated accomodation just because I might want auto-patching and other features? No, I simply choose not to get it, but will keep my eye on it to see if it is better for me in the future. I suggest the Qore Club do the same.

EDIT: To your last post, you describe the perils of early adoption in just about anything. My mom got an HDTV back in the early 2000s - oops, when they finalized the tech standard it didn't allow for future Blu ray players to transmit 1080P. Only broadcast channels can display in HD for her. People who bought 3D-ready TVs a few years ago are also learning that everything might not work well for them with this tech going forward.

The lesson is for early adopters to hold off a bit if they are concerned that they might get left with something they may later wish they had waited on. How many early Nintendo DS cusomers wish they could cheaply upgrade every year when Nintendo has a new revision on the market? You can't expect the vendors to give consumers a do-over.

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post #43 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:23 PM
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I already owned Calling on Cars when I signed up for a subscription to Qore.

I already own Wipeout HD, and I have already beaten Infamous, but I'll still probably sign up for Plus at some point.

I bought a PS3 when they were $600, and then they dropped the price to $300.

I'm wearing my big boy pants, though, so I understand that they aren't likely to give away something brand new for free with a new service. And, I understand that there is absolutely no way that they can please everyone with their choices when it comes to freebies of older games/services.

Them's the breaks.

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post #44 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

As I said in my last post, why aren't these early adopters of Qore simply signing on to PS+ after Qore runs out if this issue is important to them? It's not as if gamers with this concern HAVE to get PS+ on day one.

Right but see my above post. If you don't get on day one, you could and likely will be faced with the same issue down the line.

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As II guess if you only got Qore six months ago you might not think it is worth it for them, but of the PSN games they are offering on PS+ at a discount or for "free", I already have the ones I want (WOHD, Mahjong, etc.) so I feel the same way they do in thinking the value might not be right for my situation.

Do I expect a prorated accomodation just because I might want auto-patching and other features? No, I simply choose not to get it, but will keep my eye on it to see if it is better for me in the future. I suggest the Qore Club do the same.

But see when you equate buying a video game to signing up for a newpaper/magazine/digital magazine subscription I think you flaw the arguement. One is a service.

I woudn't expect a prorate for a game I bought either. How could you. You bought it. You played it. Maybe you didn't like it. Eitherway your stuck. I don't see people asking for free copies of games like MS, MGS, LBP because they bought the PS3 before the bundled PS3 was released.

Now when I sign up for a newspaper, digital cable, or anything, almost always if you cancel service you are prorated for amount of the unused service. Sony just seems to go against the trend here and it leaves a sour taste.

So you might want to say we are all equally screwed. As an purchaser of both PSN game and Qore, I feel the Qore group is getting a rawer deal.

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post #45 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

EDIT: To your last post, you describe the perils of early adoption in just about anything. My mom got an HDTV back in the early 2000s - oops, when they finalized the tech standard it didn't allow for future Blu ray players to transmit 1080P. Only broadcast channels can display in HD for her. People who bought 3D-ready TVs a few years ago are also learning that everything might not work well for them with this tech going forward.

The lesson is for early adopters to hold off a bit if they are concerned that they might get left with something they may later wish they had waited on. How many early Nintendo DS cusomers wish they could cheaply upgrade every year when Nintendo has a new revision on the market? You can't expect the vendors to give consumers a do-over.

Absolutely. 100% correct. But in the context of PS+ in comparison to Qore currently the only other North American subscription service. It may actually be better to jump in at day 1. Because Sony yesterday has shown that they will likely release the new version of things on the date the early adopters are to need to repurchase, minimizing their backlash or getting stuck in the middle.

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post #46 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 02:54 PM
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Does anyone know if PS+ will work on multiple PS3s. I have an FAT 80 GB and a Slim 120 GB. Will I be able to use the auto update feature on both systems?

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post #47 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 02:55 PM
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Does anyone know if PS+ will work on multiple PS3s. I have an FAT 80 GB and a Slim 120 GB. Will I be able to use the auto update feature on both systems?

I think it should. It's tied to the individual main account so if that account is on more than one PS3, the PS+ should be active on more than 1 PS3.

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post #48 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 02:56 PM
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Then don't buy it.

At this point I don't think I will. There's not much incentive there regarding the $50 free items, if you purchased many of them already.
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post #49 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 03:05 PM
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Sounds great, only thing is most of this stuff is so old, I've already bought it, or don't want it.

Where's the value in that?

A similar thing happened to me. I had just eaten dinner when I noticed there was another restaurant right next door. The other restaurant was actually trying to sell a steak dinner for $32, but I had already eaten. Where's the value in that?
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post #50 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Right but see my above post. If you don't get on day one, you could and likely will be faced with the same issue down the line.

But see when you equate buying a video game to signing up for a newpaper/magazine/digital magazine subscription I think you flaw the arguement. One is a service.

I woudn't expect a prorate for a game I bought either. How could you. You bought it. You played it. Maybe you didn't like it. Eitherway your stuck. I don't see people asking for free copies of games like MS, MGS, LBP because they bought the PS3 before the bundled PS3 was released.

Now when I sign up for a newspaper, digital cable, or anything, almost always if you cancel service you are prorated for amount of the unused service. Sony just seems to go against the trend here and it leaves a sour taste.

So you might want to say we are all equally screwed. As an purchaser of both PSN game and Qore, I feel the Qore group is getting a rawer deal.

I guess we disagree on the last point the most. I would say that the PSN game purchaser group gets a rawer deal (lol, is that even a word?).

Worse case scenario: Let's say you are in the Qore group and bought that service last week. If you want to really stretch it to get your full money's worth from PS+, you have to wait 51 weeks for Qore to expire before signing on to it.

Now, let's say I am in the group that bought some of these free PSN games just last week, and I also have most of a bunch of other popular PSN games that I got over the last few years. Now, I also want to get my full money's worth with PS+. Even if I wait 51 weeks as well, I still won't be starting PS+ "clean".

I'm literally in that situation right now. Most of the PSN dloads I'd want, I already have. Either PS+ has to start giving me free games that haven't yet been released, or I have to wait eons for them to release new stuff that I want but don't purchase at launch in hopes that they make up the bulk of freebies for me in the future.

At best, it's an uncertain, wonky process if this issue was a dealbreaker for me. On the other hand, if you are in the Qore group, you at least have clear options to maximze your purchase of PS+ at some point.

EDIT: SharpOne just made a similar point, using a hundred less words than I did.

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post #51 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 03:48 PM
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I guess we disagree on the last point the most. I would say that the PSN game purchaser group gets a rawer deal (lol, is that even a word?).

lol. It is a word. Much like rawest. And to disagree is fine. I suspect though that if one, like yourself, was an avid purchaser of the PSN titles, then this PS+ is going to be a bust unless they can really come out and shine with some great discounts on new releases. In the upcoming months. You're right in that Qore will expire, giving us the chance to ante up at a particular point. And game owners are stuck because no matter what, you already DL'd the games. I hope for manys sake that they will start pushing new DLC content to make it more enticing to join.
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EDIT: SharpOne just made a similar point, using a hundred less words than I did.

lol. yes he did.

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post #52 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 04:00 PM
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I buy a lot of PSN content, and still found this to be a good deal. Sure, there were some offerings I already had, but it's nothing to get angry about. Most of us realize that most PSN content will get cheaper after time goes (and so do disc based games), but we either decide to pay the premium to have it right away or we decide to wait until a price drop. There have been many I bought right away, and many I waited for price drops for.
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post #53 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Qore is already a year old this month. There are plenty of people who signed on to it early on that have subscriptions running out, and they can make a smooth transition to PS+ if they wish. You make it sound like Qore launched last Tuesday.

I am one of those that got Qore launch day so no biggie for me.

However, it doesn't make it right for anyone else that might of purchased Qore recently.

As I mentioned, I am still going to join, but it does not help Sony's PR image, which as I mentioned, they probably don't care about.

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post #54 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 04:36 PM
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Ok, so on a different subject, I have over 30 PSN games that probably need patching. I would be interested in hearing from folks tomorrow to see if it will auto-patch all of them.

Also, does Auto-patching work for other games that are BD based like Socom?

Guess we will find out tomorrow.

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post #55 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 04:39 PM
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Hey Joe, not sure it you caught this. I see in bgarner's reply to you something that I didn't catch. Qore is actually 2 years old this month. This doesn't change our debate at all, but now you can see how there can be many, many more people could have gotten off "track".

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post #56 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bgarner View Post

Ok, so on a different subject, I have over 30 PSN games that probably need patching. I would be interested in hearing from folks tomorrow to see if it will auto-patch all of them.

Also, does Auto-patching work for other games that are BD based like Socom?

Guess we will find out tomorrow.

Why tomorrow? PS+ was live yesterday at 8pm PST.

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post #57 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe one thing we'd agree on is that it'd be cool if there were a la carte options. For instance, a PS+ package without Qore, one without PSN games and discounts, and one package without both with them, all priced accordingly.

Come to think of it, I wish my cable company did that since I don't watch 95% of the channels I subscribe to.

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post #58 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Come to think of it, I wish my cable company did that since I don't watch 95% of the channels I subscribe to.

My cable co. recently added six new HD channels!!! Wow!!! Among them, Lifetime, Bravo, TLC, HGTV... uhm...

Gee, thanks.
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post #59 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 07:13 PM
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FYI - For the patch/update feature you are given a 2 hour window from which to choose for it to check/install updates. I assume it is for all content on your PS3 that has saved game data, but that's just a guess.

I'm one that tends to buy PSN games pretty close to their release dates if they interest me and are $10 or less. One thing I like about Plus is the "wrapped present under the tree" idea that I don't know what's coming next month and I'm sure there will be many games that I've passed up that I end up really liking (along with many that I will have been glad to have not paid full price for). I'm also hoping that we receive discounts for newly-released PSN games.
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post #60 of 1074 Old 06-29-2010, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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ign.com reviews PS+ and they seem to love it:

Quote:


If you're like us, you need a nap because today has been too damn crowded with PlayStation 3 awesomeness. PlayStation Plus is out, and it's packing free games, avatars and the promise of loads of content for the next year. On the other front, Firmware 3.40 is out and allowing PS3s to upload pictures to Facebook and videos to YouTube. It even displays your Trophy levels on your Friends list.

It's too much goodness!

Now that we've had a chance to sit down and tinker with all the new bells and whistles on the PS3, we're ready to weigh in with some opinions. IGN PlayStation Executive Editor Greg Miller and IGN Guides Guru Colin Moriarty sat down to discuss the pros, cons and futures of Sony's new initiatives.

Come watch the PS3 Firmware meet Facebook.


Greg Miller: Colin, it's a big day -- PlayStation Plus and Firmware 3.40 are officially out. You and I made sure we downloaded both of them last night, so let's get into this. What are your initial thoughts on Firmware 3.40?

Colin Moriarty: I like what I see. The Trophy level of each of your friends being noted right from your friends list is a nice touch, as is the ability to rate games you've purchased on the PSN -- to try and influence other gamers to buy or not to buy certain products. What are your thoughts?

Greg Miller: I'm impressed. I don't own computer, so I store all my digital content on my PS3 like a portable hard drive. Having the ability to upload my photos straight to Facebook from the system has me very, very excited. Watching those Post-It notes pop up on the pics last night was cool. I love the Trophy level display.

Colin Moriarty: Right on. The Facebook connectivity is not really a key issue for me... in fact, I'm kind of turned off by it right off the bat because of how botched Sony's initial rollout of PS3-Facebook connectivity was. But I'll see if I can use these new features with an open mind.

Greg Miller: Geez, way to hate, Colin. At least they're doing it, but I do feel the same way about the video editing stuff. Anyway, lets get to the heart of the matter: PlayStation Plus. You plunked down your $50 last night. Has buyer's remorse set in yet?

Colin Moriarty: No buyer's remorse in the least. As you know, I've already received back in games and add-ons more than half of what I paid for a 15-month subscription in the first night of having PlayStation Plus. I'm still confused how anyone could argue that this isn't a great deal, especially for those of us, like you and I, who live and breathe PS3 and PSN.

How about yourself?

Greg Miller: Nah, I'm happy with it and excited to see what's coming next month and the month after that and the month after that. I don't see the need to hate on it like a lot of folks are. Yes, if I unsubscribe, they're taking back the games I got for free. Like you pointed out, isn't that how Netflix works? I could buy those movies, but I choose to pay a fee and get them for as long as I'm a member. Seems easy enough to me. Plus, even if I renew four more years, I'm going to get content out of those years that'll surpass the $200. My Xbox Live subscription expired two months ago, and that's the one I go back and forth about in my head.

Colin Moriarty: Exactly. It's not really hard to rationalize it in your head as being a good deal... it's more a matter of if you are willing to do it or not. I pay a monthly subscription to Netflix. That doesn't mean I get to keep every Blu-ray I rent, nor does it mean I get lifetime access to their streaming network. It means that as long as I subscribe, I can watch any of their movies, and when I stop subscribing, I don't have that access anymore. It's ludicrous that people attack this part of PlayStation Plus as being a negative. Let me give you an example.

I "bought" WipEout HD last night. It's usually $20, but for me, it was free, because I'm a PlayStation Plus member. Now, a lot of naysayers are quick to say that I'm simply renting the game, because I don't get to keep it if I stop subscribing. So let's say they're right. Let's say that I am renting the game. And let's say that, conservatively, I'd spend $5 a week on a rental from a brick and mortar store. So I get to "rent" Wipeout HD for 64 weeks. If I were to rent it at $5 a week, it'd cost me $320 over that span. Even at a dollar a week, it's still $64, or $14 more than the yearly subscription to PlayStation Plus.

Instead, I paid $50 to rent WipEout HD for 15 months, plus I get access to 14 other free games to "rent" over that period, plus I get discounts on games, DLC, and more that I actually get to keep. So... what was the negative again?

Greg Miller: We're starting to sound like an infomercial, but yeah, that's it in a nutshell. I think people have just had the free PSN for so long that any talk of a paid PSN pisses them off. The bigger issue -- for a lot of people -- is the fear that cross-game chat is going to come as a PlayStation Plus exclusive. If that happens, I expect riots in the streets.

Colin Moriarty: It's not a matter of sounding like an infomercial, it's a matter of coming with proper facts, and those are the facts. Sony couldn't have been clearer that the PSN will remain free, which puts it at an inherent advantage over its competition, Xbox Live. Microsoft essentially forces you to pay the same fee that PlayStation Plus charges just to get many basic online features that PS3 owners get for free. I'm not saying people need to embrace what Sony is doing here, but they do need to understand that for people who use PS3/PSN as much as you and I do, we are getting a fantastic deal, and certainly one a hell of a lot better than 360 gamers are currently getting.

Greg Miller: Oh, crap, you just ignited a Xbox/PS3 war on the comment thread below. As much as I love my PS3, Xbox Live has a few more bells and whistles that I think the PlayStation Network is trying to catch up with -- cross-game chat, Achievements auto-syncing, etc. Still, we have the better community and I do heart PlayStation Plus so far. My one concern is that all the free games are going to be old stuff. I've bought the PSN games I want off of the Store, I don't want to see them all get added to this free list. Does that worry you, Colin?

Colin Moriarty: Yeah. I was talking to another editor before and I told him: the proof is going to be in the pudding, but the pudding hasn't quite cooked all the way through yet. The free games, discounts, DLC, and all of that jazz that's released month by month is going to show, one way or the other, how much value is actually in PlayStation Plus. I have faith in this initiative because WipEout HD was their first choice for a free game -- a very popular $20 game. I guarantee you they'll have some duds for free games, but if they start rolling out stuff like Shatter, Super Stardust, Fat Princess or Flower for free in the coming months, then I think people's faith (and my own) will be sealed.

Do you think they'll give us what we want in terms of free games and discounts, or do you think their approach will be more tempered than you would have liked?

Greg Miller: I think it'll be tempered. I already own all of the games you just mentioned. It makes me worry that I'll never see a debut (like Journey) go free -- even the Fat Princess DLC this week was just marked down and not free, which seemed like it would've been a no brainer. Still, the discounts make me happy.

Colin Moriarty: We shall see. Rumor has it that Zen Pinball is going to be the next free game, and I don't own that one either. But yes -- the discounts have a lot of power with me as well. They already have me considering buying Cuboid (which I will get to keep even if I choose to stop subscribing to PlayStation Plus). But to me, what's really exciting about PlayStation Plus isn't what we've already seen and what we already know but everything that could potentially come to the service in the future. After all, as Jeff Rubenstein told us on Podcast Beyond last week, PlayStation Plus won't be a static service. It will evolve.

Greg Miller: So, on the evolution front, it was also announced today that the Hulu subscription plan is coming to the PS3 (eventually). Do you think that this fee could looped into PlayStation Plus? Could there me be some kind of discount?

Colin Moriarty: That would be nice, because I'm not going to pay a fee for something I could watch on my computer free of charge. I appreciate that it's coming to PSN and I'm glad for people who will get a lot of use out of it, but I'm not that person. What about you?

Greg Miller: Eh. Probably? I'm dumb; I want. I have Netflix, but I rarely use it. Still, I want it. I need to see what Hulu has nowadays. I don't watch all that much TV, so hopefully I can talk myself out of it, but we'll see.

Wrapping this up… I dig both Firmware 3.40 and PlayStation Plus. I think they're examples of Sony responding to the players, and that's always a good thing. Right now, I have all 100 friend slots filled on my PS3, and looking at the list, I see 11 PlayStation Plus icons. That's not bad considering a bunch of people at the end of my list haven't been on in three months -- I'M LOOKING AT YOU, WILL TUTTLE. I'm glad PlayStation Plus is here, and I can't wait to see what we get next month.

Colin Moriarty: I like the firmware update, too, and I think PlayStation Plus is a great deal for the PS3 hardcore audience. I also think it's great that PSN remains free for each and every person who owns a PS3, and I'm truly confused by the anger about the program. You should purge your friends list of inactives like I do so that you have a nice robust group of 100! But as I browse my list, I see... 12 PlayStation Plus users. Not bad indeed.

Thanks for the talk, Greg.

Greg Miller: Thank you, Colin.


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