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post #211 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I'm scratching my head a bit.... what does it matter that thousands of players are above you? It doesn't matter that thousands are below you either. Just get on an MP server and play to have fun.

I played the beta a bit, and the disparity between the haves and have nots is there, but it isn't so great that you can't do decently with the basic loadouts. And since the game levels up VERY fast (especially for early newbie levels), you can acquire the buffs you need at your own pace.

Unless your goal is to make top ten in the leaderboards, online action should be about the experience itself, not what you have or don't have compared to random opponents who played early.

I agree.

I never really understood the " I didn't get my early time in so now I can't/wont play in MP".

Granted, I'm not a huge MP guy (Uncharted 2, FIFA, maybe some Killzone) mostly a campaign guy, but I never really had issues holding my own against a bunch of "kids who boosted to get to 50 in a day". Ya, they may have an extra perk or slightly better load out, but that doesn't mean they know how to use it.

Actually, how I know I'm up for an butt-whoopin' is when I see a bunch of 20's and 30's teamed up and holding normal conversations in the lobby pre game.

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post #212 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 11:50 AM
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Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception has gone gold, meaning it's ready to begin being manufactured so it can be in your hands on November 1. Should you pick up a copy, you'll find that Sony has opted to include a nice bonus.

starhawk-beta-included-uncharted-3

My mom works for Sony, and she brought home a copy of "Starhawk BETA"
I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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post #213 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I'm scratching my head a bit.... what does it matter that thousands of players are above you?

I've never played any of these multiplayer shooters online, so I may be speaking from a point of ignorance, but for myself I don't see a lot of enjoyment in just running around a map killing people, only to load it up again and do it all over again after everybody -1 is killed. I tend to get bored/bogged down even in the single player modes when the story gets to a point where you are pinned down and have to survive wave after wave of enemies.

Now add on to that when there are full-time players that (buffs or not) are just much better than you killing you incessantly. I've got better things to do with my limited free time.

Not saying it is wrong if other people like that type of game play, just saying it isn't worth my time.

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post #214 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

So I am not alone. Personally it saddens me that ND has become yet another developer taking what was an excellent sp game, and turning it into another repetitive mp silliness game. I would rather see more efforts on the sp, ie longer.

I personally hate what mp has done to sp this generation.

I wouldn't go that far. I remember being concerned when UC2 came out and the talk of mp scared to think that it would be watered down. I was happy to see how that one came out and I am hopeful that the sp of UC3 will be just as good.

It's not so much that I am concerned that the sp campaign will suffer from the mp hi-jinks, as to say that in general, UC3 has big shoes to fill.

That said, on the whole, I do feel that sp games in general seem to suffer from the attention paid on mp games.

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post #215 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

I’ve never played any of these multiplayer shooters online, so I may be speaking from a point of ignorance, but for myself I don’t see a lot of enjoyment in just running around a map killing people, only to load it up again and do it all over again after everybody -1 is killed. I tend to get bored/bogged down even in the single player modes when the story gets to a point where you are pinned down and have to survive wave after wave of enemies.

Now add on to that when there are full-time players that (buffs or not) are just much better than you killing you incessantly. I’ve got better things to do with my limited free time.

Not saying it is wrong if other people like that type of game play, just saying it isn’t worth my time.

-Suntan

It all comes down to what feeling of satisfaction each individual gets from whatever mode they play. Solo, co-op, campaign - they each have their own flavor that you'll either enjoy or not.

The reason why some people like just "running around a map killing people, only to load it up again and do it all over again" in vs. mode is the same reason why football players enjoy throwing each other to the ground just to get up and do it over again. It's the reason why I love fighting games, and why American Idol has been so popular: people love competition.

If anything, I find the gameplay in solo campaigns a lot less compelling to me because it's not much of an accomplishment to defeat pre-programmed A.I. Now, if I am able to outwit and outplay another person trying to do the same to me, there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction.

I was playing a talented Tekken 6 opponent online last night, and each battle won and lost was hard fought. You feel adrenaline buzzing in in each tense situation against an actual human compared to a computer. That's what makes vs. play so exciting.

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post #216 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

It all comes down to what feeling of satisfaction each individual gets from whatever mode they play. Solo, co-op, campaign - they each have their own flavor that you'll either enjoy or not.

The reason why some people like just "running around a map killing people, only to load it up again and do it all over again" in vs. mode is the same reason why football players enjoy throwing each other to the ground just to get up and do it over again. It's the reason why I love fighting games, and why American Idol has been so popular: people love competition.

If anything, I find the gameplay in solo campaigns a lot less compelling to me because it's not much of an accomplishment to defeat pre-programmed A.I. Now, if I am able to outwit and outplay another person trying to do the same to me, there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction.

I was playing a talented Tekken 6 opponent online last night, and each battle won and lost was hard fought. You feel adrenaline buzzing in in each tense situation against an actual human compared to a computer. That's what makes vs. play so exciting.

Thanks. I've been playing games for plenty of decades. I know what vs. play entails.

As for your asssertion that playing vs. on a game controller, sitting in front of your TV in your basement is the same as an actual team sport, played in real life, we'll just have to disagree there.

Anyway, you initially said you didn't understand where we were coming from, so I explained my point of view to you. I'm not really looking for some hidden meaning to mp play, and I don't need anyone to explain to me what I'm missing. I've played plenty of mp games in my time. I just don't get too excited about the notion of playing something like this once or twice a week. Again, nothing wrong with it if you like it, but it's not my thing.

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post #217 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 01:05 PM
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Some like competition, some like single-player, some like both. Others think video games entirely are ridiculous and you should read books. Who cares? Any activity invites competition. You could run alone, but some like to see who can run fastest. You could shoot guns alone, but some like to see who can shoot the best. You could eat alone, but some like to see who can eat the fastest. Pick your poison. A life without competition is pretty boring.
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post #218 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I'm scratching my head a bit.... what does it matter that thousands of players are above you? It doesn't matter that thousands are below you either. Just get on an MP server and play to have fun.

It's true in theory, but in practice it's just not fun. With most online shooters, you can't be a player who jumps in late or jumps in casually. Either you play a lot and play from the beginning, or you'll have a hell of a time learning to play the game properly because of how these modern reward/ranking systems work (i.e "the rich get richer").

And as these games start resembling one another more and more, you either are skilled at them or you aren't. Only when games take a different approach from the norm (Warhawk, Killzone 2, the first Modern Warfare) do I stand a chance enough to make it worth my time and effort. Because when a game is different, it levels the playing field. But that's becoming less and less common as every online MP shooter gravitates toward the exact same control mechanics, ranking systems, and level design philosophy.

I don't begrudge people their desire to play these games. I understand. They've invested time and effort into getting good at a particular way of playing. They should be able to continue that investment across multiple games. This is true of fighting games, as well. Though because the genre was dwindling for a while, it meant that the release of SF4 brought a lot of fresh blood into the genre all at once--in effect, leveling the playing field and giving people like me a chance to re-learn my skills from the ground up.

Anyhow, I'm just explaining why I don't play these games. I simply don't have the patience or time. And it's too bad because I actually would like to get into one of these games, but developers keep making them too similar to one another so the playing field is never truly level (thank god for MP games like AC Brotherhood!). And it's clear that for UC3, they're going one step further by favoring those players willing to go (slightly) out of their way to start playing early on in the so-called "Beta." Which means that they've put their MP game one step further out of the reach of players like me.

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post #219 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 01:42 PM
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I think I would enjoy the MP experience more myself if it didn't so heavily favor full-time, higher ranked players (as confidenceman brings up). As a casual/noobish MP gamer, who may only play a handful of matches per week, I don't like to be immediately thrown into matches against level 40 and 50 players that not only have the best hardware and tweaks, but know the maps intimately. It becomes very discouraging, isn't any fun at all, and why I never stay with it.

With as many people who will go online in the first months of the game's release, it seems there could be a better matchmaking system (if U3 is anything like U2 in that regard). Or why not have a "casual player" lobby where once you reach a certain XP level or attain a certain skill level (based, for example, on something like ratio of shots that hit a target) you get locked out. That way people who will never develop the ability to jump off a two-story building, switch weapons in mid-air, aim, and land a head shot on an opponent before hitting the ground will be able to enjoy a bit of MP competition.
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post #220 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Thanks. I've been playing games for plenty of decades. I know what vs. play entails.

As for your asssertion that playing vs. on a game controller, sitting in front of your TV in your basement is the same as an actual team sport, played in real life, we'll just have to disagree there.

Anyway, you initially said you didn't understand where we were coming from, so I explained my point of view to you. I'm not really looking for some hidden meaning to mp play, and I don't need anyone to explain to me what I'm missing. I've played plenty of mp games in my time. I just don't get too excited about the notion of playing something like this once or twice a week. Again, nothing wrong with it if you like it, but it's not my thing.

-Suntan

We actually agree on the main point, which is to each his own. That's what my first paragraph you quoted basically said, and no where was I trying to convince you that vs. games are for you.

What was initially confusing is how you first characterized vs. play as simply shooting and reloading, as if mindless pew-pew-pew actions is the main appeal of the experience.

As I explained, it isn't. The thrill of competition is the main appeal. That's the same thrill you can get from ANY competitive exercise vs. other people whether it is basketball, spelling bees, or one-on-one fighting video games.

You say it is unrelated, but I've competed (not merely played) in all three of those activities and the enjoyment I get out of outwitting and outperforming other human opponents (and the disappointing sense of defeat when they beat me) is roughly the same across the board.

Competition is competition no matter what form, and I can't get that same buzz from playing the A.I. in games. Solo campaigns are tons of fun though, and I do appreciate the deeper storytelling experience as well as the sense of accomplishment they offer. It's just a different type of appeal.

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post #221 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 06:46 PM
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What was initially confusing is how you first characterized vs. play as simply shooting and reloading, as if mindless pew-pew-pew actions is the main appeal of the experience.

No, what you originally said was that you were puzzled about people not liking to play with people at significantly higher ranks, and that we should just "get on one of the mp servers" and "play to have fun." Or something along those lines (I'm on my phone so I'll not try to quote you.)

In any case, I'll keep it simple. Playing online with a bunch of *highly* practiced gamers isn't fun when you only play maybe 3 or 4 hours a week on a game and you don't care enough about it to spend more time to get better.

As for you "not just playing, but competing" again, you're not the only person to engage in competitive activities. I'm sure you're not trying to be condescending, but honestly, you're coming off as a bit of a dink. I enjoy a good bit of healthy competition same as the next guy. I just don't consider playing shoot'em up "dodge ball with bullets" on a TV screen as fun competition. Although I'm fine with other people thinking it is.

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post #222 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

I think I would enjoy the MP experience more myself if it didn't so heavily favor full-time, higher ranked players (as confidenceman brings up). As a casual/noobish MP gamer, who may only play a handful of matches per week, I don't like to be immediately thrown into matches against level 40 and 50 players that not only have the best hardware and tweaks, but know the maps intimately. It becomes very discouraging, isn't any fun at all, and why I never stay with it.

With as many people who will go online in the first months of the game's release, it seems there could be a better matchmaking system (if U3 is anything like U2 in that regard). Or why not have a "casual player" lobby where once you reach a certain XP level or attain a certain skill level (based, for example, on something like ratio of shots that hit a target) you get locked out. That way people who will never develop the ability to jump off a two-story building, switch weapons in mid-air, aim, and land a head shot on an opponent before hitting the ground will be able to enjoy a bit of MP competition.

Yeah, it's like back in college, you and your buddies coming from the bars to play your intermural game of broomball only to find that the other team has shown up with their own broomball shoes, own sticks and have designed plays that they are practicing.

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post #223 of 724 Old 10-12-2011, 07:16 PM
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No, what you originally said was that you were puzzled about people not liking to play with people at significantly higher ranks, and that we should just "get on one of the mp servers" and "play to have fun." Or something along those lines (I'm on my phone so I'll not try to quote you.)

In any case, I'll keep it simple. Playing online with a bunch of *highly* practiced gamers isn't fun when you only play maybe 3 or 4 hours a week on a game and you don't care enough about it to spend more time to get better.

As for you "not just playing, but competing" again, you're not the only person to engage in competitive activities. I'm sure you're not trying to be condescending, but honestly, you're coming off as a bit of a dink. I enjoy a good bit of healthy competition same as the next guy. I just don't consider playing shoot'em up "dodge ball with bullets" on a TV screen as fun competition. Although I'm fine with other people thinking it is.

-Suntan

Slow down. My first response directly to your post that quoted my general statements was not condescending in any way. Go back and check. You were lumping vs. mode fans into a small category and I (correctly) pointed out that there is more to why some people like to go against other people than what you initially stated. I detailed my response because there's no way to be sure you were aware of that.

And when you said that competing in video games is nothing like competing in the other contests I mentioned, I had to disagree because the same excitement can be had in all types of competition, not just sports. I brought up the different types I've been involved in to show I'm not just speaking in theory; I know first hand how "vs. modes" in any kind of activity can deliver the same unique excitement of victory and defeat that you don't get going against a computer because you out thought and out performed another human being.

As to my earlier, general response, I stand by what I said. You can join up in a game where people have leveled up and still find it to be a lot of fun as you level up yourself. In U3's beta the disparity between the high levels and the low levels is not that great to ruin things since a talented player can still use his skills to succeed. Plus the game levels up early players faster than vets, so you catch up to getting additional loadouts pretty quickly.

If a game's design is so bad that newbies get destroyed by vets purely based on gear alone, then I agree that is a problem. Thankfully it doesn't seem to be the problem in U3 from what I've seen so far. Oh, and because I'm not clear, just because I said you don't have to worry about your ranking on global leaderboards to enjoy a game (ignoring the "thousands above you, thousands below you"), that does not contradict my next post about the thrill of competition.

You can get that thrill during actual, live matches, not just by following leaderboard rankings. If you are more hardcore about a particular title then it makes sense to care about where you rank. If not, jump right in to test your skills and tactics on random servers and you'll still have an awesome time (if vs. mode is your cup of tea).

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post #224 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 06:50 AM
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You were lumping vs. mode fans into a small category and I (correctly) pointed out that there is more to why some people like to go against other people than what you initially stated.

I was lumping it directly into the category it belongs in. Electronic dodge ball. Or, if you prefer, laser tag played while sitting in your recliner. I don't find a compelling interest in it. That's just me. Yes I know enough about it to know what it is. I also know enough about competition in general to know what other people get out of it. I just don't share that opinion. Even now you keep talking about how new people would have fun by joining early (during the beta) and leveling up. How talented players can still succeed. You don't seem to get it. There are a lot of us that don't have the time, the interest or the skill to level up endlessl,y match after match on the same levels. I have no inclination of getting into any beta for this. In reality, I'll likely not even buy the game until Christmas or later.

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And when you said that competing in video games is nothing like competing in the other contests I mentioned, I had to disagree because the same excitement can be had in all types of competition, not just sports.

If you get that excitement, that's great. I don't. I see these deathmatch mp shootouts along the same lines as bowling, table tennis or pool. Kinda fun to play with a beer in your hand, but not worth my time to be competitive about because they aren't really *that* fun to begin with. This brings us back to the beginning of this tangent. For a lot of us, mp play might be more interesting if there were a better way to separate the infrequent players that just want to play not compete from a lot of the douches that take it entirely too seriously (and yes, for the record I think playing any video game for 20+ hours a week is taking it entirely too seriously.)

Anyway, I think this tangent has run its course. Feel free to have the last word on it if you want. Otherwise we should probably allow the conversation to get back on topic. You know, let everybody get back to lamenting the endless tweaking of skills/stats/buffs and pacing changes that ND needs to do so people can just enjoy mp play

-Suntan
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post #225 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 08:20 AM
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These tangents have definitely run their course. I was going to continue it, but I just don't care what other people do or don't like with regard to video games.
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post #226 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 08:28 AM
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You're on a crazy rant for no reason at all. Everything I've posted was about people who like competition. You're acting like I care if you or anyone who doesn't like vs. modes should be playing them - wrong.

All I addressed in responses to you directly was the fact that for those who do like this stuff, it isn't simply for the "shooting and reloading" point you were making. They usually like it for the same reason anyone likes any competitive exercise: playing against and defeating other people. If it was just for the shooting and reloading, then solo/co-op modes would be enough for them, but it is not.

That's it in a nutshell. If you disagree with that factual statement so be it, but that doesn't make it less true no matter how you try to denigrate the activity itself.

You initially seemed confused on that point when you first quoted me in the way you first invented a motivation for liking competition. I didn't simply assume you understood why a lot of people like playing against other people, so I posted a respectful response explaining why, filling in the blanks you left out.

You say you already know that - fine. You don't like playing against others - fine. My post to you wasn't personal (I literally thought you didn't know why we enjoy playing vs. others), so there's no need to be bent out of shape on what is really a non-issue. Feel free to hate vs. modes all you want. People who prefer either style are no better (or worse) than those who don't.

As for the first post of mine you responded to, it was directed to people who like vs. play in general but don't like U3's early access promo because they feel it'll put them at a severe disadvantage. It also was not an attempt to convince those who don't like vs. modes to play them, which may have been what started you off. Really, your reaction came out of nowhere, but perhaps it was all a misunderstanding.

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post #227 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 01:22 PM
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Interesting points of view here. I can see and relate to both sides. Prior to Uncharted 2, other than playing some old college friends in Madden or NCAA Football every once and a while, I had never played any online video games. I was more interested in a good story and creative levels in a single player game. I didn't see the appeal to MP.

I jumped into the UC2 MP pretty late and to say I took my lumps against all of the pros would be an understatement. I was constantly being slaughtered in death match. I ended up playing more Plunder and Elimination than anything. I had more success with those as they were more strategic than the chaotic DM. I didn't discover the leader board until after I had been playing for a while. I had a 0.35 KDR at the time.

Losing badly isn't fun and like some of you, I have a limited amount of time for gaming and couldn't put in as many hours as the pros. I almost gave up on it but my competitiveness and the fact that every game is different kept me coming back. With SP it is always the same AI controlled enemies that are always going to do the same thing. Playing against people keeps things fresh. Eventually I turned the corner and was hooked. I'm still not anywhere near as good as the people who play 8hrs a day but I'm good enough to hold my own and have fun with it. You can still get good at UC MP and have fun playing it casually/occasionally. It just may take you a little longer. Don't let the fact that you don't have time to make it a full time job keep you from enjoying the game.
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post #228 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 02:08 PM
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As you brought up, Plunder is one of the "safer" mode for newbies to level up, especially since KDR will be disabled for it. You can die a lot but still help your team cap the idol, or you can be the best killer on the server and still lose without employing teamwork.

Combined with the increased leveling system the game has for new players (you can easily get to L5+ your first day), no one should be that far behind in earning useful loadouts after 3-5 days or so of average play.

~~~

I have a Subway code for early access, but I don't want to go through some of UC3's solo campaign environments yet. I'll wait for the game to launch first AND wait until I complete the adventure before I start vs. mode, so I'm going to be far behind the early stat-mongers myself. I played the early beta and decently held my own against people ranked twenty levels ahead of me the first few days, so I'm already satisfied with my test drive of MP.

If anyone who has no access to a Subway store wants my code, post up a request and I'll PM it to you.

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post #229 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 03:18 PM
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This is a game I've been waiting for. Anyone here like to get really competitive on the MP, let me know.
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post #230 of 724 Old 10-13-2011, 08:33 PM
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As you brought up, Plunder is one of the "safer" mode for newbies to level up, especially since KDR will be disabled for it. You can die a lot but still help your team cap the idol, or you can be the best killer on the server and still lose without employing teamwork.

Combined with the increased leveling system the game has for new players (you can easily get to L5+ your first day), no one should be that far behind in earning useful loadouts after 3-5 days or so of average play.

Not just the leveling but Plunder and other objective modes allow you to have an easier time getting used to the game mechanics and the maps because the other team's sole focus isn't killing you.

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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I have a Subway code for early access, but I don't want to go through some of UC3's solo campaign environments yet. I'll wait for the game to launch first AND wait until I complete the adventure before I start vs. mode, so I'm going to be far behind the early stat-mongers myself. I played the early beta and decently held my own against people ranked twenty levels ahead of me the first few days, so I'm already satisfied with my test drive of MP.

The current Subway Demo/Beta plays differently than the summer beta. You might want to check it out and see if you still like it and are as good. I was very effective with the G-Mal during the summer beta. I could at times carry the team and rack up 20 kills. I'm not having anywhere near that kind of success in the current version.
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post #231 of 724 Old 10-14-2011, 11:08 AM
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The g-mal took too bursts to kill in the previous beta, now it takes three bursts. I've given into the M9 and am doing great with it.
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post #232 of 724 Old 10-14-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Amp98 View Post

Not just the leveling but Plunder and other objective modes allow you to have an easier time getting used to the game mechanics and the maps because the other team's sole focus isn't killing you.



The current Subway Demo/Beta plays differently than the summer beta. You might want to check it out and see if you still like it and are as good. I was very effective with the G-Mal during the summer beta. I could at times carry the team and rack up 20 kills. I'm not having anywhere near that kind of success in the current version.

Hmmm.... the G-Mal was my weapon of choice as well, so I'm not happy with the nerf. Still, I hear they are still tweaking the game though, so maybe by launch they will have it nicely balanced. Either that or perhaps the G-Mal is a beast when fully leveled up. By the time I get into vs. play (after beating the campaign) I hope things are relatively balanced.

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post #233 of 724 Old 10-14-2011, 11:50 AM
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I played last night and still think the GMAL is lame with any attachment. It is my favorite weapon too, but it (or the game) has definitely changed for the worse. I switched to the M9 and shot/punched my way to victory afterwards . This is all in deathmatch though, I assume the other modes allow for the GMAL to do better.
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post #234 of 724 Old 10-14-2011, 01:24 PM
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I gave up on the G-Mal and switched to the M9 last night too. It needs either a greater rate of fire or it needs to do more damage. Unfortunately none of the current available attachments do either.
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post #235 of 724 Old 10-14-2011, 06:36 PM
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Naughty Dog has two separate teams, one for the single player and another for the multiplayer. Concerns about focusing on multiplayer taking away from efforts on single player are understandable but misguided.

And My God, have you seen any of the single player demos? They look amazing! There's no worries about single player suffering because they are also doing a multiplayer.

This subway beta is capped at level 35. You can get to that in one weekend of playing, even less if you just go all day. So people playing this don't have that much of a "lead" (whatever that even matters). But they do get experience. Even if they reset everything and people didn't keep their levels and unlocks, they'd still have all the practice.

So it seems the issue (if anyone has one) should be with the existence of game betas, period. Not whether they let player keep their low level 35 achievement for the retail release.

Anyway, another map will be available on Monday. It will probably be either The Facility or The Museum.
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post #236 of 724 Old 10-15-2011, 12:33 AM
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I'm on media blackout, so I'll take your word that the solo levels look awesome.

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post #237 of 724 Old 10-15-2011, 04:48 AM
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post #238 of 724 Old 10-15-2011, 06:03 AM
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I heard mp on uc3 sux is that true? If so I guess I have to wait for mw3

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post #239 of 724 Old 10-15-2011, 08:45 AM
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You heard wrong. It's a conspiracy*.

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post #240 of 724 Old 10-15-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:


I heard mp on uc3 sux is that true?

Ha! No.

Edit: and I should have added, "this is the internet, everything sux"
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