PS3 Now Open, Jailbroken, whatever you want to call it! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:13 AM
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I would be pretty happy if I could get Xbmc on my PS3.
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post #32 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

Maybe I live in a "candy cane and gum drop" world but I only see this as being a good thing, for me at least. Then again I'm an honest person so maybe along with being sad for Suntan, I should also be sad for society for their penchant for piracy. I love to push/tinker with my stuff just too see what it can do and this provides me with that functionality. The piracy part while unfortunate, has always been there and will always be. And while I wish it would just go away, I'm not going to let that prevent me from legitimately messing with my property.

I don’t know where you live, but if you can’t admit (at least to yourself) that efforts to crack a game console’s encryption are directly and closely tied to efforts to make a game console play pirated games, you’re being disingenuous with yourself.

I’m glad it makes you happy. For a lot of us, we just see the real world ramifications where Sony now takes engineers off working on features/new products so they can now work on this “issue.” We see game developers, possibly the next “Naughty Dog,” who might be interested in specializing in making games just for the PS3 (so they can put out the best game possible for the format) saying to themselves, “eh… maybe we shouldn’t hitch up to that wagon exclusively if our games are going to be pirated in a year or two.”

Yeah, maybe you have become disillusioned with how all of us have turned into old-farts that are no longer interested in “sticking it to the man.” But truth be told, a lot of us are just plain tired of all of you people that think you are fighting some kind of war for our rights. I was as mad as anyone else that Sony reneged on OtherOS, but I don’t see this as the solution. News flash, if you want something to tinker with under the hood, buy a PC, not a proprietary console.

You may find it sad that few of us are enthused about this. Personally, I find it refreshing that most people here have recognized that, longterm, this is a bad thing for the platform.

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post #33 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

Wow, I have to say I am legitimately surprised. Blown away really. I had no idea this stuff would be taken so negatively on here. Maybe I live in a "candy cane and gum drop" world but I only see this as being a good thing, for me at least. Then again I'm an honest person so maybe along with being sad for Suntan, I should also be sad for society for their penchant for piracy. I love to push/tinker with my stuff just too see what it can do and this provides me with that functionality. The piracy part while unfortunate, has always been there and will always be. And while I wish it would just go away, I'm not going to let that prevent me from legitimately messing with my property.

Telling someone you read Playboy for just the interviews, then having them not believe you, is not surprising.

If this was about people just modding their own machine for their own use it wouldn't matter. Since the ultimate goal is to bust out the games software and the network functions, this all adds up to possible headaches for legit users. I hope they figure out how to brick any modded consoles that try to access the PSN. Let these guys do what they want at home, but keep them away from my machine and my PSN account information.

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post #34 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by natrone06 View Post

I would be pretty happy if I could get Xbmc on my PS3.

That is the second most requested hack I have seen so far, with a PS2 emulator being number one.

And yes Other OS is a major issue, the whole reason that hackers left the PS3 alone was because this allowed them to run Linux and make homebrew, which is the main reason 95% of devices are originally hacked. Piracy is never the reason, but someone eventually figures it out, these people haven't even looked into cracking the DRM on the games, they have no clue because they don't care, they just wanted their homebrew back. (that Sony illegally took from them BTW, removal of the Other OS violated several European consumer protection laws)

This opens the possibility to a ton of indie games to come to the PS3 as well.

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post #35 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

That is the second most requested hack I have seen so far, with a PS2 emulator being number one.

And yes Other OS is a major issue, the whole reason that hackers left the PS3 alone was because this allowed them to run Linux and make homebrew, which is the main reason 95% of devices are originally hacked. Piracy is never the reason, but someone eventually figures it out, these people haven't even looked into cracking the DRM on the games, they have no clue because they don't care, they just wanted their homebrew back. (that Sony illegally took from them BTW, removal of the Other OS violated several European consumer protection laws)

This opens the possibility to a ton of indie games to come to the PS3 as well.

The removal of other OS ticked me off too. I am just waiting for the current case against Sony to receive class action status in CA.. I did actually use the otherOS, as I was trying to learn Linux and it what the only "extra" computer I had that i could run it on. was good for Firefox and other internet stuff too.. It was advertised and I paid for that feature so I want it back "officially by Sony" or I want to be compensated!

Being its my equipment and I own it I will do whatever I want with it. Just like my PSP's for the kids.

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post #36 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

Being its my equipment and I own it I will do whatever I want with it. Just like my PSP's for the kids.

Yeah... because they never hacked that to play pirated games... I mean, those hackers never cared about pirated games on the PSP...

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post #37 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

I don’t know where you live, but if you can’t admit (at least to yourself) that efforts to crack a game console’s encryption are directly and closely tied to efforts to make a game console play pirated games, you’re being disingenuous with yourself.

I have already said that piracy is there, it's just not the only thing. You thinking piracy is really the only reason for this is you being disingenuous with yourself (or just a reason to "keep on keepin on" with your "truths").

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I’m glad it makes you happy. For a lot of us, we just see the real world ramifications where Sony now takes engineers off working on features/new products so they can now work on this “issue.” We see game developers, possibly the next “Naughty Dog,” who might be interested in specializing in making games just for the PS3 (so they can put out the best game possible for the format) saying to themselves, “eh… maybe we shouldn’t hitch up to that wagon exclusively if our games are going to be pirated in a year or two.”

Every console is cracked and therefore has pirated material. So by your reasoning, a developer will just stop making any games at all because there is no secure place for their games. Please.

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Yeah, maybe you have become disillusioned with how all of us have turned into old-farts that are no longer interested in “sticking it to the man.” But truth be told, a lot of us are just plain tired of all of you people that think you are fighting some kind of war for our rights. I was as mad as anyone else that Sony reneged on OtherOS, but I don’t see this as the solution. News flash, if you want something to tinker with under the hood, buy a PC, not a proprietary console.

How old are you (physically, not mentally)? Unless you're approaching senior citizen status then we are probablly not far part brother so you can cut the old fart act. And who the hell is talking about “sticking it to the man” or fighting wars on others behalf's. Get a clue man. It's about doing, legally, what I damn well please with my property. I own my PS3 and will use it as a toaster, a george foreman grill, a modified computer or a sexy love machine robot if I see fit, I used my hard earned dough to buy that sucker.

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You may find it sad that few of us are enthused about this. Personally, I find it refreshing that most people here have recognized that, longterm, this is a bad thing for the platform.

I found nothing sad about others not being enthused about this. I was just surprised. If you took the time to read what I wrote, you would have know that what I was sad about was for people who pirate the crap outta stuff and you my friend, for obviously being "that guy" we all find eventually throughout life and find all to often on the internet.

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post #38 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Telling someone you read Playboy for just the interviews, then having them not believe you, is not surprising.

I love boobies. That I will never, I SAY NEVER, lie about.

(Come on suntan, tell us why boobies are a bad thing and how they will cause the downfall of mankind!)

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post #39 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

for obviously being "that guy" we all find eventually throughout life and find all to often on the internet.

Or far too frequently in the AVS PS3 forums.

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post #40 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:39 PM
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I saw only bits and pieces of the 45+min video yesterday. Didn't even know there was a hacker convention!!
Loved the part where one of the guys goes 'Sony forcibly removed the OtherOS feature, something the high level hackers liked fiddling with, and that just pissed them off'

*bling* Trophy - pissed off hackers shows up on presentation
'and you just don't piss off hackers'

He then went on saying how after 4 years of no real interest to hack the PS3 just got completely turned around to being pissed off and focused on it. 2 months in and it seems they are bound to release the works to the public. These are the guys that don't normally pirate but like to fiddle with stuff, make homebrew, etc. The low level hackers are the pirates that build on the high level hackers' work to implement features like playing backup copies and alas... piracy will be open far more than this PSjailbreak version. And the craziest part of it all is how Sony can't do a single thing!! No firmware update or patch will fix this hole.

The 360 has been hacked very early on its life and it still sells well both hardware and software. I don't think the PS3 will meet it's demise with this. I think a minor blip will happen in sales but overall you'll still see the same for sales.

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post #41 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Yeah... because they never hacked that to play pirated games... I mean, those hackers never cared about pirated games on the PSP...

-Suntan

Almost every single hack that allowed homebrew on the PSP was release without a way to pirate games, this is a fact. Some hacks were never released because the devs who made found out how easy it was to crack their protection and enable piracy on their hack.

The people who crack these systems initially do so not to pirate games, but to run homebrew. (It's why I hacked my PSP, which had been sitting around collecting dust for over a year) it is always some other group of coders that eventually crack the code for running backups. (which I am interested in on the PS3, some of those load times are horrid, if a 7200rpm HDD can fix that then I'm all for it, but I will still buy my discs due to the file size among other things)

If anything this will probably encourage me to buy more games new, just a while after they come out. This will probably stop my used game buying 100%, but my new game purchases will be largely unaffected, they will just wait for a pricedrop. (that is actually my new year's resolution, wait for price drops on all but my most wanted games)

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post #42 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

It was advertised and I paid for that feature so I want it back "officially by Sony" or I want to be compensated!

Was it advertised? That seems to be one of the bones of contention in the lawsuit according to some sites.
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post #43 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

As far as I understand it, tinkering with the firmware on you personal property is not illegal, at least neither legal or illegal on a home system. You may void your warranty, but I do not think it's illegal by any means. I could be wrong but I think what is illegal is the piracy of software/games or manipulating a system for gains from play or such. I do know the government set precedence here is the US that made jail breaking the iPhone totally legal, not sure how that translates to video game computer systems.

Who said anything about "illegal"?

You said "legitimate" and I replied. Although it may not be illegal to monkey with your firmware, in regards to the TOS you can not legitimately tinker with your firmware, hence the voided warranty that you mention.
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post #44 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:13 PM
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You guys do have to remember that it's not always gonna be bad done with the results.

Hell, my iPhone is jailbroken for piracy? WHAT? I jailbroke my iPhone so I could choose my own message tone! Is that a crime? To want a personal message tone on a piece of hardware that I 100% own? That apple still likes to think it owns?

Personally, the thing that's running through my head right now is FLAC, if I can modify my PS3 to play FLAC off the hd, then I'm sold.

I can have these views, and at the same time have no interest in piracy.

And also, to those people who have stated if you would like to do this sort of thing, do it on a computer. Get on this planet and think... Why can you modify content personally on a computer in the first place? Because as tight as Microsoft are, they let you put 3rd party applications on it's os.
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post #45 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

Because a Cheap PC won't run any games to the quality of a PS3. most don't even com close to the minimum or recommended hardware requirements needed for modern games. you would have to spend probably $2000 or more to get a PC that can run the games at graphical frame rates and image quality of the PS3

BS, you can buy a cheap computer and a $200 video card and it will match or exceed what a ps3 can do. A $2000 system will be able to run multiple, high res monitors and 3d with much better graphics than a ps3.

That being said, I'm still pissed about the otherOS thing, I still am missing 10gb of HD space because of it and really wanted to do some CFD coding using the cell. However, I don't have the time to mess with jailbreaking etc. to try and get the functionality back. Now it's just a dumb console, and may be the last I buy from Sony. I'm fed up with them promising the moon and delivering some green cheese.
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post #46 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Who said anything about "illegal"?

You said "legitimate" and I replied. Although it may not be illegal to monkey with your firmware, in regards to the TOS you can not legitimately tinker with your firmware, hence the voided warranty that you mention.

You got me there dude. I assumed by "legitimate" you meant legal ('cause legitimately means; "in compliance with the law or Lawful") and there I was wrong by assuming.

Now as far as legitimately tinkering with you OS, you can legitimately tinker with it in accordance of law, you can't tinker with your OS and keep your warranty in accordance with the TOS from the people you bough that product from.

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post #47 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

You got me there dude. I assumed by "legitimate" you meant legal ('cause legitimately means; "in compliance with the law or Lawful") and there I was wrong by assuming.

Now as far as legitimately tinkering with you OS, you can legitimately tinker with it in accordance of law, you can't tinker with your OS and keep your warranty in accordance with the TOS from the people you bough that product from.

Which is precisely what I said in my previous post. I believe we are in agreement.
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post #48 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 01:49 PM
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for those that are commenting without watching the information (first-hand) rather than glibbing comments off the internet, you really should watch them.

here's the first live demonstration:




yes, eventually piracy may be a problem but they haven't hacked the game signing yet. go to the last minute of the 45 minute presentation.

I haven't been this excited in awhile. I modded 4 Xbox1's way back in the day so all the bedrooms could stream via XBMC. but having only 64MB of RAM and a Pentium III became too big of a limitation so that it couldn't play HD content. but now.... XBMC FTW!!!!!

maybe they could rename XBMC to PS3MC
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post #49 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The people who crack these systems initially do so not to pirate games, but to run homebrew. (

That seems somewhat hard to believe, when you see stuff like this. That would be the work of Dark_Alex, PSP hacker extraordinaire, developing a hack to rip DRM free PSX games to the PSP by firmware 3.02, something he would repeat with 3.10.

I can easily understand the 'I want to run homebrew' school of thought. Of course, said hackers COULD script the firmware hacks so that licensed software didn't run...but they CHOOSE NOT TO (and I recognize that might not be a trivial piece of code, but to my knowledge no one has even TRIED for the purpose of plausible deniability). Hacking the firmware is no longer illegal, but it IS a violation of the license agreement and warranty. You can choose to violate those agreements at your own discretion.

The notion that jailbreaking the PS3 is some blow for freedom seems...ODD. No one had to upgrade to the firmware that removed the Other OS option, did they? Yes, they lost access to aspects of PSN...but if they were using the Other OS option, were they using the PS3 that way in any event? I honestly don't know, since I never used that feature. I do know that if someone can develop a good PS2 emulator, he will be a very popular person to some.

But the danger equally exists not just of hacked PS3s to allow pirated games...but of hacked PS3s to attack or DOS the PSN network or be used as zombies in a botnet or a variety of other illegitimate, dangerous uses. One doesn't design security for the nice people. It's worth recognizing that hackers can work for good purposes or bad.
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post #50 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

As far as I understand it, tinkering with the firmware/software is far from legitimate.

Just because Sony says it, and says they'll sue you if you try, doesn't mean it's true.

Pretty sure, to date, no one has been successful sued using a EULA. Then there's the issue of fair use. All in all, a lot of companies don't want you messing with their hardware, or software. But that's far from illegal.

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I don’t know where you live, but if you can’t admit (at least to yourself) that efforts to crack a game console’s encryption are directly and closely tied to efforts to make a game console play pirated games, you’re being disingenuous with yourself.


Let's cut the crap then. The industry ending scare scenarios are dubious at best, and a whole lot of PR BS.

The Xbox and PS2 were arguably the most pirated consoles ever. They also saw the greatest success in the industry, and continue to sell units and software around the world. Piracy is talked of like it's always a major problem, but the facts tell a different story.
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post #51 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Which is precisely what I said in my previous post. I believe we are in agreement.

Kinda.

I could be assuming again here but what I think you are saying that is is not legitimate (which means legal) or ethical to tinker with the OS.

I am saying is is legal and ethical to tinker with the OS. You just lose your warranty, which is not illegal or immoral in any way.

Sorry if I'm wrong, that's just how I took it.

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post #52 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post

No one had to upgrade to the firmware that removed the Other OS option, did they? Yes, they lost access to aspects of PSN...but if they were using the Other OS option, were they using the PS3 that way in any event? I honestly don't know, since I never used that feature.

Used the PS3 to play games (Disc based, PSN games, Online gaming, and loves me some trophies) while running linux on it till the day it left.

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post #53 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post

But the danger equally exists not just of hacked PS3s to allow pirated games...but of hacked PS3s to attack or DOS the PSN network or be used as zombies in a botnet or a variety of other illegitimate, dangerous uses. One doesn't design security for the nice people. It's worth recognizing that hackers can work for good purposes or bad.

This is true, but can be analogized in so many ways, either too and for, that we would bleed from the fingers. And that is the basis of these "talks" we have in this thread. It's all about ethics, and whether the immorals can/should/will/should be allowed to spoil the pot of the honest. If there was zero chance from piracy of games, this thread would have died already.

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post #54 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

for those that are commenting without watching the information (first-hand) rather than glibbing comments off the internet, you really should watch them.

It really doesn't help their presentation to mention the first thing that was done when they hacked the Wii was for pirated games. They DO try to position piracy as a consequence of their actions, but they seem to be bending over backwards to make that case. Really, if these are the best efforts that the Wii Homebrew community has been able to generate in 4 years, it's no wonder that everyone associates the homebrew scene with piracy. XMB for the Xbox was a wonder, but that's the only homebrew solution I've heard of for a console that seems like something people would actually use for more than five minutes as a toy. This summary of the 360's homebrew scene makes it look like half the apps are dedicated to piracy of games or hacking of save game files. There are some media servers...but you don't need to hack the 360 or PS3 for that. There are freeware programs like the PS3 Media Server that do that stuff and have much better support...never mind commercial products like PlayOn and the like.

I have no doubt there is a thriving homebrew community...I just don't see a lot of output from it. I think it's pretty clear that the majority of people installing the Homebrew Channel or hacking their Xbox 360 are installing pirated games, installing stuff like aim-bots for shooters or otherwise not accomplishing all that much. Nothing on the scale or relevance of XMB appears to be out there at a casual glance. What big things are the homebrewers working on, beyond Wii Paint and Iso2God?
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post #55 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

If there was zero chance from piracy of games, this thread would have died already.

But it isn't zero, and thus the discussion.

Dress it up any way you want (personally I would probably find some of the hacked features advantageous too) but your nuts if you don't honestly think that "most" people interested in hacking a game console aren't interested in playing pirated games.

In any case, my original beef was with your silly drunk driver analogy and the discussion has moved on, so I'll be on my way.

-Suntan
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post #56 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:53 PM
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i really dont like piracy. everybody who read back in my posthistory knows this,

but when sony took out being able to install linux they brought it all to themselfs.

you see linux itself was indeed pretty much worthless on it.

however what linux means to the community, and specially hackers. is being able to do anything you want it with it. it is like the ultimate opensource operating system.

so when you start kickin in that door. you unleash hell.

ofcourse the CEOs of sony and there almight ego didnt think of it. they thought they could push this forward and boom it blew up in their face.,

now i still keep buying the games orginal. in a perfect world i would hope that my money goes to the creators of the software and the engeneers who created the ps3. since i still think it is an awesome machine and i gladly pay for games that are worth it. but i really hope all those manager idiots get kicked out of the company.

mistake after mistake. how long does this continue?
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post #57 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

so I'll be on my way.

-Suntan


Joy!

PSN: futurecode
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post #58 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post

XMB for the Xbox was a wonder, but that's the only homebrew solution I've heard of for a console that seems like something people would actually use for more than five minutes as a toy. This summary of the 360's homebrew scene makes it look like half the apps are dedicated to piracy of games or hacking of save game files. There are some media servers...but you don't need to hack the 360 or PS3 for that. There are freeware programs like the PS3 Media Server that do that stuff and have much better support...never mind commercial products like PlayOn and the like.

I know you don't know anything about the MS side of things. But Xbox1 and 360 scenes are totally different. The 360 was only hacked to the point that you could run copied games. You can't run any code on the 360. So the scene is basically dead.

But the Xbox1 was totally hacked and it had an awesome community. You could run all kinds of emulators from the old Atari and Commodore machines to the Nintendo machines (NES, SNES, N64) to the Sega machines (Master System, Genesis). You had XBMC, Media Portal. It was the ultimate media box until high def became big.

And you definitely haven't tried XBMC if you think PS3 media server, PlayOn, etc. are better. XBMC has come a very long way. I saw my friend's tiny Ion box running XBMC layered over Linux. Just beautiful.
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post #59 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 04:01 PM
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Was it advertised? That seems to be one of the bones of contention in the lawsuit according to some sites.

Well they even made Yellow Dog Linux and Terrasoft the "official" version of linux for the PS3

DJ
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post #60 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 04:13 PM
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Just because Sony says it, and says they'll sue you if you try, doesn't mean it's true.

Pretty sure, to date, no one has been successful sued using a EULA. Then there's the issue of fair use. All in all, a lot of companies don't want you messing with their hardware, or software. But that's far from illegal.

I've already addressed this. I never claimed it was illegal.

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Kinda.

I could be assuming again here but what I think you are saying that is is not legitimate (which means legal) or ethical to tinker with the OS.

First things first. Words have multiple meanings. If you meant "illegal" I would have assumed you would have said "illegal". Instead, you used the more ambiguous word "legitimate" which can mean legal, but can also mean "in accordance with a set of rules" (such as a TOS, etc).


I've made it pretty clear that it isn't illegal to tinker with the firmware. I've also made it clear that as far as the TOS is concerned it is not legtimate to tinker with the firmware.

Quote:


I am saying is is legal and ethical to tinker with the OS.

It is my understanding that if you agreed to the PS3 Terms of Service then you agreed not to modify your firmware. Some people may find a way to personally rationalize that into being morally and ethically sound. I don't.

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You just lose your warranty, which is not illegal or immoral in any way.

For now. Would you be upset if Sony bricked your modded console?
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