PS3 Now Open, Jailbroken, whatever you want to call it! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

they will just wait for a pricedrop. (that is actually my new year's resolution, wait for price drops on all but my most wanted games)

I am with you on the price drop thing. The game I wanted was Apache. One of those good but under the radar releases. turns out K-mart had it for $20 off the day after xmas... also got StarWars FUII collector edition on amazon a few days ago. Collector edition same price as reg edition. its nice to finally see game prices dropping quickly.... as well as more games releasing at the $39-49 price point.

I do wish Sony would just enable the digital copy thing for games and bluray movies as I have 500GB drive in my PS3 just going to waste. Its a convenience feature for me and if Sony doesn't do it an a hack does and still let me have online functionality then it will happen. with 2 little ones the only time I get to play is after they go to bed. so I don't get through too many games as it is to even bother with pirating any games... I bought more games this Xmas (5) season than I have in the last couple years....

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post #62 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

Well they even made Yellow Dog Linux and Terrasoft the "official" version of linux for the PS3

Who is "they"? And what does this have to do with advertising?
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post #63 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

For now. Would you be upset if Sony bricked your modded console?

If I'm understanding it correctly, there's nothing to worry about for most people. Sounds like we'll soon be able to boot into OtherOS that is completely free of the hypervisor, thus better memory and access to the RSX. It also probably means other ROM's could be run that don't do any check, or bypass any check Sony puts into place.

That is, of course, for utilizing homebrew. Anyone pirating games would be going online and run the risk, but for everyone else there should be no problem.

Anyways, was it morally acceptable for Sony to sell us all other OS, then take it away? Let's not get into morality arguments, especially when talking about a multinational corporation, shall we?
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post #64 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by d3code View Post

i really dont like piracy. everybody who read back in my posthistory knows this,

but when sony took out being able to install linux they brought it all to themselfs.

you see linux itself was indeed pretty much worthless on it.

however what linux means to the community, and specially hackers. is being able to do anything you want it with it. it is like the ultimate opensource operating system.

so when you start kickin in that door. you unleash hell.

ofcourse the CEOs of sony and there almight ego didnt think of it. they thought they could push this forward and boom it blew up in their face.,

now i still keep buying the games orginal. in a perfect world i would hope that my money goes to the creators of the software and the engeneers who created the ps3. since i still think it is an awesome machine and i gladly pay for games that are worth it. but i really hope all those manager idiots get kicked out of the company.

mistake after mistake. how long does this continue?

You are soo wrong on soo many fronts that its not even funny!

Its like having kids, you give then and "INCH" and they take a "MILE"!

Sony gave you guys and "INCH", and too keep the integrity of there online system going and to prevent some hack from spoiling our online fun, they took that "INCH" back!

If it wasnt broadcasted to the world about the "JAILBREAK" (like you guys say, just keep it to yall selves) this wouldnt have been an issue. When SONY felt PSN would be compromised because of some smart arse, they did what anyone would have done, took that privledge away.

1 bad apple ruins the bunch!

No need to be pissed at SONY and thus targeting peoples lively hoods, because we all know some jerk will attempt to hack into peoples accounts and cause problems.

So how would you like to wake up to emails or bank statements (for those that dont buy PSN cards) saying your account has been overdrawn due to excessive PSN purchases?

I know some shady folks out there in the world and hacking has NO LIMITS, its just not the piracy im worried about. After typing this, I just took my CC info off my account and now have to stop by my local store pick up PSN cards instead of just drafting it from my CC account at will.

People are greedy and mean in this world, and for you to wanna CUSTOMIZE your console is your business and you should keep it to yourself.
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post #65 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 06:28 PM
 
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
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post #66 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

If I'm understanding it correctly, there's nothing to worry about for most people. Sounds like we'll soon be able to boot into OtherOS that is completely free of the hypervisor, thus better memory and access to the RSX. It also probably means other ROM's could be run that don't do any check, or bypass any check Sony puts into place.

That is, of course, for utilizing homebrew. Anyone pirating games would be going online and run the risk, but for everyone else there should be no problem.

You make it sound as if it won't have any detrimental effect on the regular PS3 community at all. How optimistic.

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Anyways, was it morally acceptable for Sony to sell us all other OS, then take it away? Let's not get into morality arguments, especially when talking about a multinational corporation, shall we?

Tu quoque.
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post #67 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

You make it sound as if it won't have any detrimental effect on the regular PS3 community at all. How optimistic.

Hard to imagine what additional negative effect--if any--it will have. Publishers are already paranoid about piracy. Sony has already gone nuts with the frequent security updates. Digital rights law already strongly favors corporations. Piracy is already a big issue on Wii and 360 with no major fallout for legitimate consumers. PC is a whole other issue.

At best, we could expect to see more games available as download only releases. At worst, more games will start requiring an internet connection. Frankly, I think both of those things are inevitable anyway, so this really isn't something we need to be afraid of. Of course, the larger political and philosophical ramifications of centralizing intellectual property and rights could be hugely detrimental to all consumers, but the legal and corporate reactions to hacking the PS3 is just a very small part of a much larger (and justifiably frightening) trend.

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post #68 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post
At best, we could expect to see more games available as download only releases. At worst, more games will start requiring an internet connection. Frankly, I think both of those things are inevitable anyway, so this really isn't something we need to be afraid of.
I bought Braid but I have to be logged in to PSN for it to work. That's not a solution; that's retarded. And it'll be the first thing the pirates find a workaround for, just like DVDs:
http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg

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post #69 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post
That seems somewhat hard to believe, when you see stuff like this. That would be the work of Dark_Alex, PSP hacker extraordinaire, developing a hack to rip DRM free PSX games to the PSP by firmware 3.02, something he would repeat with 3.10.

I can easily understand the 'I want to run homebrew' school of thought. Of course, said hackers COULD script the firmware hacks so that licensed software didn't run...but they CHOOSE NOT TO (and I recognize that might not be a trivial piece of code, but to my knowledge no one has even TRIED for the purpose of plausible deniability). Hacking the firmware is no longer illegal, but it IS a violation of the license agreement and warranty. You can choose to violate those agreements at your own discretion.

The notion that jailbreaking the PS3 is some blow for freedom seems...ODD. No one had to upgrade to the firmware that removed the Other OS option, did they? Yes, they lost access to aspects of PSN...but if they were using the Other OS option, were they using the PS3 that way in any event? I honestly don't know, since I never used that feature. I do know that if someone can develop a good PS2 emulator, he will be a very popular person to some.

But the danger equally exists not just of hacked PS3s to allow pirated games...but of hacked PS3s to attack or DOS the PSN network or be used as zombies in a botnet or a variety of other illegitimate, dangerous uses. One doesn't design security for the nice people. It's worth recognizing that hackers can work for good purposes or bad.
1. The PS1 code was hacked to allow all PS1 games to run without waiting for Sony to release them. You could now rip your own PS1 discs and port them to the PSP, this was the original intent.

2. Yes, a lot of homebrew coders did make sure to code their hacks to not allow piracy at one point, until their anti-piracy was cracked just hours after they released it, so the practice died out, they just didn't include the code for piracy in their release. (see the latest Hen release on the PSP, it needed a seperate ISO loader to play PSP games, on the plus side, Birth By Sleep can now be played on the PSP Go. )


I use my PSP for homebrew emulators 95% of the time. Now I demo my games before buying them and you know what, Dissidia was the last game I bought, and the last PSP game that I played more than 3 hours that I didn't already have. If the game fails to hold my interest I don't buy it. (So glad I didn't buy Birth by Sleep, because it put me to sleep)

As for warranty voiding, these warranty's are so short that it doesn't really matter if you void them, they expire so quickly in the first place.

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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post
I bought Braid but I have to be logged in to PSN for it to work. That's not a solution; that's retarded. And it'll be the first thing the pirates find a workaround for, just like DVDs:
http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg
That image made me laugh, mainly because of how true it is.

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post #70 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 02:10 AM
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smokecapone, you are wrong on so many levels. not me.

were has sony ever said that is had to take out linux because PSN could be hacked and user details would be.

According to Sony, the continued use of optional installations threatens security for PS3 users. It does not say how, exactly, but presumably the company is concerned that unauthorized access via the Other OS window could compromise security on the Sony Playstation Network.

you see the word PRESUMABLY ? and sony not adressing what could happen?

besides, now hackers can still do that and more! they can install linux back again so what did sony accomplish?

oh yeah the wrath of the hacker community.

so i am not wrong on many levels. i am right on many levels.

also if you watch the video of those hackers. they even said it themselfs. we did not care about hacking until sony took out linux.

also jailbreak itself was already patched in firmware 3.55. you could not be on PSN. so i dont see any problem in that.

there is only 1 problem here and that is sony.
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post #71 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by d3code View Post
smokecapone, you are wrong on so many levels. not me.

were has sony ever said that is had to take out linux because PSN could be hacked and user details would be.

According to Sony, the continued use of optional installations threatens security for PS3 users. It does not say how, exactly, but presumably the company is concerned that unauthorized access via the Other OS window could compromise security on the Sony Playstation Network.

you see the word PRESUMABLY ? and sony not adressing what could happen?

besides, now hackers can still do that and more! they can install linux back again so what did sony accomplish?

oh yeah the wrath of the hacker community.

so i am not wrong on many levels. i am right on many levels.

also if you watch the video of those hackers. they even said it themselfs. we did not care about hacking until sony took out linux.

also jailbreak itself was already patched in firmware 3.55. you could not be on PSN. so i dont see any problem in that.

there is only 1 problem here and that is sony.
You answered you own questions, but to give you an answer of my own...

Its to prevent WIDESPREAD PANIC!

If SONY came out and basically told everyone ALL the reasons for there removal of otherOS, then people would...

A) Know exactly where to target SONY, afterall, they're gonna be highly pissed at them anyway for removing it.

B) People like me would never trust a gaming company with my information due to the fact that "hackers" are in fact targeting to exploit PSN or playstation.

Not everyone knows what homebrew is or what it does, so when they here the words "hacker", to them its like saying "THIEF" combined with "identity".

I dont feel safe, and if you google and look for people who have had there PSN or 360 accounts "hacked", you would feel and think the same thing too.

oh and btw, those "hacked accounts" were more than likely done by amatuers who probably do that kind of stuff for kicks and giggles.
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post #72 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

I bought Braid but I have to be logged in to PSN for it to work. That's not a solution; that's retarded.

You had to have a connection to get Braid in the first place. It's not like it's sapping bandwidth. Not an ideal solution, but you can't blame property holders for trying.

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And it'll be the first thing the pirates find a workaround for, just like DVDs:
http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg

Yeah, and the money you get from robbing a bank has fewer complications than getting a pay check and having to pay income taxes, pay into a 401K (with its own fees and taxes), pay bills (with their own fees and taxes), buy insurance (with its own fees and taxes), etc.

Living legitimately is always more complicated than larceny. If theft weren't easier, people wouldn't be thieves in the first place.

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post #73 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 11:07 AM
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I would love to be able to play my (legally owned) PS2 games on my out-of-region 60-Gig PS3 (first gen).

The region lock for PS2 games is very frustrating. My PS3 has the hardware to run the PS2 games.

Even better would be the capability to copy the PS2 discs onto the PS3 hard drive.

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post #74 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 01:15 PM
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I'm a boyscout as far as the whole pirated games scene, but I sure would like to play my games stored on an hdd, if only to restore fundamental functionality to my ps3 after the optical drive broke. So I can't say I have a lot of sympathy for Sony's position, at this point. I would still buy any new games that I was going to play, though. From that standpoint, that would be a bonus to Sony, which I currently buy zero games, currently.

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post #75 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

You had to have a connection to get Braid in the first place. It's not like it's sapping bandwidth. Not an ideal solution, but you can't blame property holders for trying.

What if I don't want to log into PSN, because I haven't done the latest system update and I don't want a fifteen minute delay before I play the game? What if my internet is down? The convenience of not having to put a disc in is negated by the DRM.

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Yeah, and the money you get from robbing a bank has fewer complications than getting a pay check and having to pay income taxes, pay into a 401K (with its own fees and taxes), pay bills (with their own fees and taxes), buy insurance (with its own fees and taxes), etc.

Living legitimately is always more complicated than larceny. If theft weren't easier, people wouldn't be thieves in the first place.

You really think stealing software is like robbing a bank? Maybe if ATMs didnt require cards or PINs and there was just a big stack of twenties hanging out like the "take a penny leave a penny" tray.

The point I'm making is that theft is rewarded when it comes to software & movies. If I buy a CD, I don't have to listen to two minutes of advertisements before I get to listen to what I paid for. My printer doesn't spit out an ad before it prints my document.

The only people who see the FBI warning or deal with DRM are legitimate customers and I'm tired of them getting the shaft while those who pay nothing get an enhanced, easier experience. Where's the penalty?

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post #76 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

The only people who see the FBI warning or deal with DRM are legitimate customers and I'm tired of them getting the shaft while those who pay nothing get an enhanced, easier experience. Where's the penalty?

So, basically, your complaint is that DVD/BD piracy isn't punished severely enough. Strange way to justify committing a crime.

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post #77 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 05:44 PM
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My printer doesn't spit out an ad before it prints my document.

Oh, geez, don't give them any ideas!

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post #78 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 06:56 PM
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Oh, geez, don't give them any ideas!

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post #79 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

The only people who see the FBI warning or deal with DRM are legitimate customers and I'm tired of them getting the shaft while those who pay nothing get an enhanced, easier experience. Where's the penalty?

One of the other threads in the forum turned me onto DVDFab8 so I could copy all the kids movies to a format to run from the PS3 Hard disk. Nice feature it has is a check box to automatically remove the stupid FBI warning when it converts the movie

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post #80 of 179 Old 12-31-2010, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jhaines View Post

Oh, geez, don't give them any ideas!

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while they are at it they can do white text on a black background to use up a ton of ink so u gotta buy more of the stuff

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post #81 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

You really think stealing software is like robbing a bank?

All analogies fall apart at some point, but for the sake of argument, they are both illegal activities and they both allow you to skirt issues (FBI warnings, taxes) that legitimate customers have to deal with.

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Maybe if ATMs didnt require cards or PINs and there was just a big stack of twenties hanging out like the "take a penny leave a penny" tray.

Theft is theft. You can rationalize all you like.

Quote:


The point I'm making is that theft is rewarded when it comes to software & movies.

As confidenceman said, theft is ALWAYS "rewarded", otherwise why would anyone steal?

Quote:


If I buy a CD, I don't have to listen to two minutes of advertisements before I get to listen to what I paid for. My printer doesn't spit out an ad before it prints my document.

The only people who see the FBI warning or deal with DRM are legitimate customers and I'm tired of them getting the shaft while those who pay nothing get an enhanced, easier experience. Where's the penalty?

I'm with confidenceman on this one. Just because it's "easy" and you've found a way to justify it in your head, doesn't make it any less wrong.

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post #82 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

The only people who see the FBI warning or deal with DRM are legitimate customers and I'm tired of them getting the shaft while those who pay nothing get an enhanced, easier experience. Where's the penalty?

I think there are two separate statements being made here. One is that the FBI warning is ineffectual because it inconveniences honest customers while doing nothing to discourage piracy, and perhaps actively counterproductive if it drives a few customers to become pirates. The second is that this justifies piracy.

We all hate the FBI warning in front of movies, but that doesn't necessarily make it right to steal movies. I hate the clamshell packaging that a lot of small consumer electronics come in (and which was originally designed to prevent pilferage), but that doesn't mean I should buy my MP3 player from a back-alley guy who's selling the stuff out of the back of his van. It's true that clamshell packaging inconveniences honest customers in a way that bank vaults do not inconvenience regular bank patrons. But until a better solution is discovered, buying stolen goods is not an effective way to protest the use of clamshell packaging.
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post #83 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 01:11 PM
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Though we can all see the shady side of this, it can be used for good and I am interested in what gets produced from this in the end. I will be following it.
I'm all for jailbreak and hacking the ps3, but i'm dead AGAINST counterfeit and piracy.
I like the idea of getting an OS on the ps3, but I will only do it if it's legal and use it for legitimate purposes. I never had a PS3 before the slim so I don't know what it used to be like...

I understand there will always be someone trying to "stick it to the man" or make a quick buck. They just won't ever make a buck off of me.

Thanks for sharing. This is why I like this forum and the community.

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post #84 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 01:15 PM
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wouldn't the PSN just ban the jailbroken consoles?
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post #85 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 01:31 PM
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wouldn't the PSN just ban the jailbroken consoles?

This isn't a normal Jailbreak, this is being able to sign homebrew software as official Sony software. (they couldn't tell the difference between MAG off the PSN or a Dreamcast emulator for example, both would look official)

An ISO loader would be the same way. It will be very hard for Sony to even put up a roadblock, let alone stop it.

I could see cheat codes being easy to spot however, even with the proper key in place, so it shouldn't be too hard to stop cheaters (abnormal code in the online game). I'll use my old 60gig as a guinea pig to test everything while waiting to see how it works for online before I dare try it on my slim, I like playing on the PSN too much to risk it. All I want this for is homebrew, and maybe loading some games off the HDD for better performance (Fallout/Elder Scrolls should work much better for example)

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post #86 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kayo_michael View Post

I'm all for jailbreak and hacking the ps3, but i'm dead AGAINST counterfeit and piracy.

I think most of us are with you (at least in sentiment). The problem is that you can't have one without the other.

Of course, this was always going to happen sooner or later, so I don't think this will make over-the-top DRM measures any more or less severe than they already are. The fact that Sony's console lasted this long without a pirate-friendly/homebrew-friendly hack is remarkable.

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post #87 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

I know you don't know anything about the MS side of things. But Xbox1 and 360 scenes are totally different. The 360 was only hacked to the point that you could run copied games. You can't run any code on the 360. So the scene is basically dead.

This isn't exactly correct. You can run emulators and other stuff on a 360. JTAG systems can do lots more than just play games.

Piracy will happen. Lots of other cool stuff with happen as well. XBMC is an example of something cool.
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post #88 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The fact that Sony's console lasted this long without a pirate-friendly/homebrew-friendly hack is remarkable.

I've repeated this sentiment on other sites and received complete derision. Can anyone understand that? The hackers claimed it was easy, and their excuse was, "we didn't want to until now."

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post #89 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

I've repeated this sentiment on other sites and received complete derision. Can anyone understand that? The hackers claimed it was easy, and their excuse was, "we didn't want to until now."

It's their way of blaming Sony. The argument goes something like: "If Sony hadn't gotten rid of the OtherOS feature, we wouldn't have done this." Of course, this completely ignores the fact that Sony got rid of OtherOS because there had been some recent advancements made in hacking the console through the OtherOS feature.

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post #90 of 179 Old 01-01-2011, 06:46 PM
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This is a go-nowhere debate. Since we are playing the comparison game here's my view.

Opening software on a device you bought: legal
Putting a personal customization on a firearm that you bought: legal

Now,
Using the custom software for Piracy: illegal
Using the customized gun to kill someone: illegal

I know it's one extreme to the other, but that's why they can get away with it (in this case, anyway) because they have not done anything illegal. There's lots of things in life you don't agree with and guess what? That's life
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