PS3 Now Open, Jailbroken, whatever you want to call it! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Some interesting stuff in there. Looks like the world of the PS3 is about to expand by leaps and bounds.

VIA PSgroove.com

Quote:



Sony's PS3 Security is Epic Fail

This morning was the big unveil at the Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin, and it did not disappoint. Here is a brief synopsis for those that missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEFMA...layer_embedded


The first few minutes of the conference were spent explaining the state of security on other consoles (Wii, 360, etc). Following this, the group went on to explain the current state of affairs on the PS3. First, explaining Geohot's memory line glitching exploit from earlier this year. The team then went on to explain the current PS3 security bypasses, such as jailbreaking and service mode/downgrading.

Approximately a half hour in, the team revealed their new PS3 secrets, the moment we all were waiting for. One of the major highlights here was, dongle-less jailbreaking by overflowing the bootup NOR flash, giving complete control over the system. The other major feat, was calculating the public private keys (due to botched security), giving users the ability to sign their own SELFs Following this, the team declared Sony's security to be EPIC FAIL!

The recent advent of these new exploits means current firmware is vulnerable, v3.55 and possibly beyond. It will be very difficult for Sony to fix the described exploits.

The team then displayed the website http://fail0verflow.com/ were we assume will host examples of the new exploits and further details. They stated that easy to use tools would be coming next month.

Stay tuned to this article and PSGroove.com we will be updating it as more info is availble. Also for those that missed the stream we will be posting links for you to download the entire stream.


Update via http://twitter.com/fail0verflow

# our goal is to have linux running on all existing PS3 consoles, whatever their firmware versions. less than 20 seconds ago via web in reply to KushanTheCat
# Our current PS3 goal: AsbestOS.pup 2 minutes ago via web
# For all those out there that think fail0verflow.com has been hacked - it hasn't. We're just busy working on a demo for tomorrow. Patience! 3 minutes ago via web
Note: we won't be working long-term on CFW or similar. We'll release tools and a PoC, someone else can take over. The fun part is done less than 5 seconds ago via Choqok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuTC...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84WI-...layer_embedded


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post #2 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 02:24 PM
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OOOHH now this sounds promising! Hopefully now I can play burned PS3 games.
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post #3 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ehgz1 View Post

OOOHH now this sounds promising! Hopefully now I can play burned PS3 games.

I'm sure your talking about burned, backed up, copies of games yo already own! Piracy is wrong and I'm sure not well tolerated around these parts!

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post #4 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 02:58 PM
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Of course I am talking about games I already bought...what else could I have been talking about.
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post #5 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ehgz1 View Post

Of course I am talking about games I already bought...what else could I have been talking about.

Your comments are whats disturbing about this whole issue, im sure if Sony wanted you to backup your games to the device a featured would have been in place just like there is for the music section.

Dunno why people are so interested in this when both consoles controllers are PC compatible, and if you were that desperate to play your favorite game as a back up then why not get the PC version?

Its basically gonna boil donw to the cheaters and glitchers out there and destroy online gaming unless there is some fix for this soon. Hoping for a blacklisting of PS3s that are culprates in this fiasco when there system goes online.

All in all, your only killing gaming by doing this or condoning it, and therefore prices in games will either soar or devs will start dissapting (smaller devs) that cant afford to take this kinda hit given how far we are in the consoles life cycles, Im hoping for the good to come out of this and release a NEW console and people will move on.
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post #6 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 03:53 PM
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i don't have time or energy for piracy anymore... plus I could go to jail or lose my job... not worth the hassle since I don't buy a lot of games anyway... I mean seriously... get a gamefly account if you want that many games and can't afford them all its under 10 bucks a month
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post #7 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 04:12 PM
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I would love it if there was a way from Sony to load all my games movies etc. onto the HD (500GB). My kids are 2 and 4 so they have a habit of taking games, blurays and dvd's and ruining them one way or another. it would be nice to load the game once and hide the discs in a safe place away from the kiddos. I have done this on the PSP's for the kiddos via Custom Firmware...
Also games will load faster from the HD than via a bluray..

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post #8 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeCapone View Post

All in all, your only killing gaming by doing this or condoning it, and therefore prices in games will either soar or devs will start dissapting (smaller devs) that cant afford to take this kinda hit given how far we are in the consoles life cycles, Im hoping for the good to come out of this and release a NEW console and people will move on.

I can not disagree with you more.

I posted this article because things like this are not only fantastic for the Homebrew possibilities, but also to push Sony to add more capabilities to the PS3 in the future. I liken it to the iPhone which has flourished due to the jailbreak community who, for the most part, are not pirates. ehgz1 comments I take with a grain of salt because as anyone who looks to push their locked down computer systems to the brink knows (and that is what the ps3 is, a computer system) piracy is an unfortunate by product of releasing a system.

This is for me, and a ton of PS3 users out there, about the possibility of additional features on my property I paid my hard earned cash on. MKV playback, OtherOS, super computing, A proper web-browser, etc... with this, the possibilities are endless and moral/legal.

To look at this as purely a piracy thing is close minded and ignorant. I'm not saying to ignore piracy because it is an issue, just don't pigeon hole. You don't want to ban all driving of automobiles because of the people who drive under the influence do you?

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post #9 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 04:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeCapone View Post


Dunno why people are so interested in this when both consoles controllers are PC compatible, and if you were that desperate to play your favorite game as a back up then why not get the PC version?

Its basically gonna boil donw to the cheaters and glitchers out there and destroy online gaming unless there is some fix for this soon. Hoping for a blacklisting of PS3s that are culprates in this fiasco when there system goes online.

Not necessarily. And sad to say it, but Sony brought this on themselves when they nixed OtherOS. Hackers really didn't focus on the PS3, until sony took back other OS. Once they did, it was on, and now look whats happening. There was a small group of pirates/warez trying to crack it, but they were getting nowhere because they were never the brains.

Anyways, one of great things that might come from it is allowing complete HDD storage of your games. Added to a SSD HDD, that means almost negligible load times.

Then there's running emulators natively. Adding other media file supports. Possibly booting to custom XMB ROM's that have other apects not loaded to free up memory (which then could be used for a robust, fully working 3rd party browser)

It also will give people access to the RSX processor which means homebrew, and possibly even custom dynamic themes.

All minor, but important stuff Sony should have had out long ago. The possibilities are endless.
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post #10 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

To look at this as purely a piracy thing is close minded and ignorant. I'm not saying to ignore piracy because it is an issue, just don't pigeon hole. You don't want to ban all driving of automobiles because of the people who drive under the influence do you?

Come on. Enough with the strawman that always gets trotted out in this kind of defense. We all know what exploits like this get used for 99.99% of the time.

If only one in one thousand drivers was sober, then yes I would very much be in favor of banning driving.

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post #11 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post


Come on. Enough with the strawman that always gets trotted out in this kind of defense. We all know what exploits like this get used for 99.99% of the time.

If only one in one thousand drivers was sober, then yes I would very much be in favor of banning driving.

-Suntan

Two things:

One: I see this from an iPhone jailbreak type situation so I am optimistic for positive enhancements, not just piracy.

Two: Suntan, more times then not if I see your name attached to a post it's always so arrogant and / or negative. You must be a pile of sunshine in real life! I feel sad for you man, I really do.

(waits for the inevitable snappy, condescending comeback)

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post #12 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 05:11 PM
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The more we talk about this, the more people are gonna find all this out via the all and mighty google. Sssshhhhh...
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post #13 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 07:54 PM
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Dont be too sure the powers that be don't want this, so they can limit and install more DRM and security, give us less and cost us more.

The problem with these hackers is they are so book smart they are brain dead, because their egos and arrogance will eventually bury them. Intelligent, but they have no common sense most often. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. It may not be now when they are 20 or 30 but things ALWAYS even out and those that cheat AlWAYS get caught and pay one way or another.
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post #14 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 09:05 PM
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all this does is return homebrew functionality. at the end of the video, a lady asked why can't there be a bluray software payload created and they responded that they can't sign games.

so this doesn't seem to be a danger to sony yet. it just returns functionality that used to exist (well, actually adds a bunch of new functionality because now you can have access to 3D hardware acceleration in linux). maybe down the line it could lead to piracy. but right now, people can relax.

i actually watched all 45 minutes of the video. pretty spiffy stuff.

actually, this could be win/win for Sony. now people can run XBMC or other homebrew stuff. and it still can't run pirated games. more reasons to own a PS3.
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post #15 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

I would love it if there was a way from Sony to load all my games movies etc. onto the HD (500GB)...

Build or buy a Windows Home Server. I saw a 1TB full system today for $349 and a 2TB system for $399. It is one of the best things I've done at my house.

Next subject, for once I agree with Suntan. This is a BAD thing.

And for the guy that compared to jailbreaking an iPhone... most of the guys I know with jailbroken iPhones also download pirated apps.
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post #16 of 179 Old 12-29-2010, 10:11 PM
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Regardless of what this ends up being used for, Sony will do what they can to make it as inconvenient as possible. At that point, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just get a cheap PC (as the above poster mentions).

And despite a handful of folks who'd use it for relatively legitimate things, the vast majority would clearly just use it to play pirated games.

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post #17 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

all this does is return homebrew functionality. at the end of the video, a lady asked why can't there be a bluray software payload created and they responded that they can't sign games.

so this doesn't seem to be a danger to sony yet. it just returns functionality that used to exist (well, actually adds a bunch of new functionality because now you can have access to 3D hardware acceleration in linux). maybe down the line it could lead to piracy. but right now, people can relax.

i actually watched all 45 minutes of the video. pretty spiffy stuff.

actually, this could be win/win for Sony. now people can run XBMC or other homebrew stuff. and it still can't run pirated games. more reasons to own a PS3.

I watched it all as well (man the security truly is crap, worse than even a 1.50 firmware PSP, because this is unpatchable)

Eventually someone will figure out the piracy angle (jailbreaking already does it) but for now the homebrew side is the most exciteing to me. Expect a PS2 emulator with HD support to be a high priority for some group.

There is a PSP emulator hard coded into the PS3 for the mini's, expect that to be cracked for retail games as well. (already done on the jailbreak, but I don't know if the guy released it) Dissidia 012 being played with a Dual Shock, I really like that idea.

I expect N64 to be the first emulator of any worth, sporting full 1080p 16:9 support akin to project 64.


The biggest question will be if I can run homebrew and still play online legitly and not have Sony kill my PSN account. (Only a minor intrest in piracy, mainly from the fan translations that will come of it)

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post #18 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 02:52 AM
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Expect a PS2 emulator with HD support to be a high priority for some group.

Expect system limitations to be a major hurdle for PS2 emulation (let alone upscaling).

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post #19 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 03:01 AM
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Expect system limitations to be a major hurdle for PS2 emulation. Otherwise, PS3 and PS1 games would be the main targets for pirates.

Don't be too sure, Look at what happened with N64 emulation on the PSP, that system isn't powerful enough to run it, but a team of devs are still tirelessly working on it, and they now have it to the point that most games run full speed without sound. They have also planned a update that can give up to a 200% speed up once finished, effectively giving full speed with sound on all games, all on a machine nowhere near powerful enough to do it. Having set hardware allows for tremendous optimization of a emulator's code, so PS2 and Wii will be emulated, it will just take time. And we still don't know if there is a PS2 emulator buried in the firmware, at one point Sony was working on one...

PS1 won't be that big of an issue, it will be just like it is on the PSP, a simple recoding and it will work. An emulator will be made eventually that supports higher res graphics, but that won't be a priority. (PS1 games don't do well in HD, unlike N64 games which look stunning)

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post #20 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Regardless of what this ends up being used for, Sony will do what they can to make it as inconvenient as possible. At that point, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just get a cheap PC (as the above poster mentions).

And despite a handful of folks who'd use it for relatively legitimate things, the vast majority would clearly just use it to play pirated games.

Because a Cheap PC won't run any games to the quality of a PS3. most don't even com close to the minimum or recommended hardware requirements needed for modern games. you would have to spend probably $2000 or more to get a PC that can run the games at graphical frame rates and image quality of the PS3

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post #21 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecode View Post

One: I see this from an iPhone jailbreak type situation so I am optimistic for positive enhancements, not just piracy.

I disagree that this is similar to the iPhone. Call it stereotyping if you will, but the *vast* majority of people looking to hack a game console are looking to do it so they can pirate games, imo. It may not be all they want to do, but it will be the driving force in making a lot of them do it.

I would suggest that the percent of people looking to hack an iphone so they can run paid programs for free is substantially lower.

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Two: Suntan, more times then not if I see your name attached to a post it's always so arrogant and / or negative.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps it is just that you are only attracted to threads in which I have expressed a differing view than yours.

In any case, I stand by my comments. You equate the stigma of hacking a game player with getting rid of cars due to drunks on the road A quick search of the internet suggests that at any given time, 3% of all the drivers on the road may be drunk. Do you honestly think that 97% of the people looking to hack a game player are interested in just homebrew with no interest in playing pirated games?

http://www.popcenter.org/problems/drunk_driving/ (slightly less than half way down, second paragraph after Drunk Drivers heading.)

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post #22 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 08:45 AM
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Yea, this sucks big time and homebrew leads to other majors issues and I know this for a fact. Take a look at the 360, i know several people who have modded consoles and play pirated games for $3 a piece.

But since you guys who embrace this crap with open arms never developed for a game or owned anything that could be pirated would not know how this news feels. Its gonna take sales away from devs who DESERVE them, there are numerous people who cant afford games day 1 and would like to and now they can with the PS3 and it will happen.

Was otherOS that serious of an issue to be that spiteful of SONY to make sure your account doesnt get compromised or games get "illegally" pirated?

I enjoy online gaming as I have a family and friends have the same of different things going on in there lives and we dont hang out as much as we used too. So we rely on online games or sites. I feel if you guys have come this far to piss off SONY for taking away a feature you guys abused, I only shutter at the htought of what someone who is trying to make a name for himself would end up doing.
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post #23 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 09:33 AM
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when you talk about mkv playback, you're pretty much talking piracy ANYWAY...mkvs these days are rips of bluray discs in 720p or 1080p.

my favorite part about this thread is when someone brought up a conspiracy theory (the powers that be want this to happen so we get stuck with more DRM in the future)...really? lol, i mean...come on, son. Lose the tin foil hat.

I am happy playing back bluray discs at full quality, so this is of no use to me, but thanks for sharing.
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post #24 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post
when you talk about mkv playback, you're pretty much talking piracy ANYWAY...mkvs these days are rips of bluray discs in 720p or 1080p.

my favorite part about this thread is when someone brought up a conspiracy theory (the powers that be want this to happen so we get stuck with more DRM in the future)...really? lol, i mean...come on, son. Lose the tin foil hat.

I am happy playing back bluray discs at full quality, so this is of no use to me, but thanks for sharing.
I think you are a little off on your terminology, but your point is still understood.

mkv (the container format) is not piracy in and of itself.

Personally, I rip discs (actually to .m2ts, mkv doesn't do much for me) because I can't tolerate the 20 minutes of adds and nag screens. Not because I am pirating them.

Further, .mkv is fully capable of containing the audio/video straight from the disc without any loss of quality. In short, it looks no different than the disc you are so happy watching (except when you try to play that resulting .mkv in a non-hacked PS3 )

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post #25 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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I agree this is bad news. Lots of money will be lost by Sony and developers. I know a handful of people who steal 360 games and it pisses me off. If the mod is easy to do or cheap ($100), people will be stealing games like crazy. If this can't be fixed this could really hurt the PS3.

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post #26 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post
Having set hardware allows for tremendous optimization of a emulator's code, so PS2 and Wii will be emulated, it will just take time.
Perhaps. The memory limitation is going to be a real bitch. And considering how powerful a PC needs to be to run a decent PS2 emulator, I'm skeptical. But one should never underestimate the resourcefulness of hackers.

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Because a Cheap PC won't run any games to the quality of a PS3.
I wasn't referring to games. I was talking about more legitimate homebrew applications. But even if you do factor games in, you could build a PC in the $400-500 range that could run games at least as well as (if not better than) a PS3. And if you have an old PC to scrap for parts (case, fans, power, HDD, etc.), it'd be even cheaper.

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post #27 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 10:16 AM
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Because a Cheap PC won't run any games to the quality of a PS3. most don't even com close to the minimum or recommended hardware requirements needed for modern games. you would have to spend probably $2000 or more to get a PC that can run the games at graphical frame rates and image quality of the PS3

you've been drinking the kool-aid a bit too much if you think it takes a $2000 PC to match the PS3 graphics...
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post #28 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I have to say I am legitimately surprised. Blown away really. I had no idea this stuff would be taken so negatively on here. Maybe I live in a "candy cane and gum drop" world but I only see this as being a good thing, for me at least. Then again I'm an honest person so maybe along with being sad for Suntan, I should also be sad for society for their penchant for piracy. I love to push/tinker with my stuff just too see what it can do and this provides me with that functionality. The piracy part while unfortunate, has always been there and will always be. And while I wish it would just go away, I'm not going to let that prevent me from legitimately messing with my property.

PSN: futurecode
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post #29 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 10:41 AM
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Wow, I have to say I am legitimately surprised. Blown away really. I had no idea this stuff would be taken so negatively on here. Maybe I live in a "candy cane and gum drop" world but I only see this as being a good thing, for me at least. Then again I'm an honest person so maybe along with being sad for Suntan, I should also be sad for society for their penchant for piracy. I love to push/tinker with my stuff just too see what it can do and this provides me with that functionality. The piracy part while unfortunate, has always been there and will always be. And while I wish it would just go away, I'm not going to let that prevent me from legitimately messing with my property.

As far as I understand it, tinkering with the firmware/software is far from legitimate.
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post #30 of 179 Old 12-30-2010, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as I understand it, tinkering with the firmware/software is far from legitimate.

As far as I understand it, tinkering with the firmware on you personal property is not illegal, at least neither legal or illegal on a home system. You may void your warranty, but I do not think it's illegal by any means. I could be wrong but I think what is illegal is the piracy of software/games or manipulating a system for gains from play or such. I do know the government set precedence here is the US that made jail breaking the iPhone totally legal, not sure how that translates to video game computer systems.

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