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post #91 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 08:46 AM
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Listen, I'm certain that YLOD for PS3 are a 100% certainty, and that most PS3s will die of it within 2-3 years. Some of us may get lucky and get a year or two more out of it, but it will die, and sooner than pretty much any other console you've owned (except maybe 360). Whether you believe me or not, I couldn't care less, but ask any PS3 repair specialist and I'm certain they'd tell you the same thing.
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post #92 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
While not everyone who has a ps3 visits message boards, the message boards clearly do represent the entire userbase of PS3s.
No they don't. They represent the portion of users who use message boards. Nothing more. You just continue to make stuff up.

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And yes, people do go on message boards even when nothing is wrong just to discuss the system and its games. Most threads have nothing to do with the condition of their system, but the vast number of people having ps3s dieing with identical causes on these boards is an obvious indicator of their short lifespan.
And how do you get from this to your claim that most consoles die within 2-3 years? Please explain your logic.

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If it was fewer threads wth most of them having nothing in common I could see how you think they were insignificant, but that couldn't be further from the truth.
Or perhaps people only post to forums when they have something to say. Something like "my Ps3 broke". There aren't too many people starting threads to say, "Hey guys. Just want to say that my PS3 is 3 years, 4 months, and 2 days old. That's all."

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Like I said before, it's about as much proof as you're going to get short of Sony releasing stats (as they wouldn't do as it would open the door for so many lawsuits).
So in other words, no proof at all.

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What else do you expect?
Silly me, I was expecting the "documented proof" that you claimed existed. I know, i know, you just can't find it. I hate when that happens.


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post #93 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 08:55 AM
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+1,
I have a Fat PS3, 60GB which has been in service for the past 4+ years. I usually turn it on at least once a day for at least an hour and have had absolutely no issues with it.

If you're right and it is guaranteed to fail, could you please send it a memo from the message boards to hold out until the PS4 is announced?
Thank you.

Gaming doesn't kill people! Crazy, pent up, overly agressive, repressed, gun wielding people kill people.

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post #94 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Listen, I'm certain that YLOD for PS3 are a 100% certainty, and that most PS3s will die of it within 2-3 years. Some of us may get lucky and get a year or two more out of it, but it will die, and sooner than pretty much any other console you've owned (except maybe 360). Whether you believe me or not, I couldn't care less, but ask any PS3 repair specialist and I'm certain they'd tell you the same thing.
100%?! Most?! Who needs evidence and logic when you've got speculation and repetitiveness?


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post #95 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post
i'd even go a step further and say that their "repairs" are downright phenomenal compared to other industries.

If i understand correctly, sony will currently replace a 4 year old, out-of-warranty console with a new* slim version, for $99. I can't think of any other company that will let you trade in out-of-warranty merchandise for credit towards a new version.

Let's put this in perspective. For those that paid $600 for a fat ps3, they're getting a full replacement for less than 20% of their purchase price. That would be like swapping your $1000, 4-year-old, out-of-warranty refrigerator for a new one for only $166! If anyone knows of an appliance company offering that deal, please let me know!

And even those that only paid $400 for their fat machine are essentially getting a $200 credit towards the purchase of a new* machine. That would be like trading in a 2 year old out-of-warranty broken lcd tv to get 50% off of a new slimmer version.

For all the whining about how shoddy their consoles are (and i'd still love to see real numbers on average lifespan), i can't think of a single company with a better replacement policy for out-of-warranty merchandise than sony currently has.
+1
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post #96 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post
100%?! Most?! Who needs evidence and logic when you've got speculation and repetitiveness?
Don't forget all-encompassing message board truthiness.

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post #97 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 09:57 AM
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Of all the people I know with ps3's, I'm only aware of one single failure. A friend bought CoD world at war I think it was and it bricked his 2 month old system (this was a widely reported game specific issue at the time). It was replaced under warranty and has been fine since. This was around 2.5 years ago. Everyone else I know with a ps3 is on their original system, and at least 4 of them are over 3 years old.

Even on my tiny sample that's around a 20% failure rate - but the single failure was due to a game specific issue, not a system defect. No failures on systems over 3 years old so far. I'm sorry, but trolling message boards and seeing a failure a day when there are something like 45 million consoles out there, does not equal a very high failure rate.

Most electronics currently manufactured uses lead free solder due to environmental concerns - this is not a toy specific or Sony specific practice. The issue is not that lead free solder cracks more often but that it does not flow as well, so the initial soldered contact is more difficult to make. However, if a good solder process is achieved, it should be just as good as a leaded solder connection. The bigger issue is that solder joints in general are smaller and more tightly packed in hotter areas, it's not the solder composition. Solder with lead will have similar issues with current layouts.
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post #98 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:13 AM
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The failure rate of early PS3 consoles is vastly over-hyped .. I have 4 units, 2 from the early builds that have been absolutely flawless .. the primary reason for early failure on some was user created by poor placement, thus causing heat build-up ..

Use your phatty upright, try to have it as open as possible in the area you have it in ..

I agree that the slim looks cheaper, (I have 2) .. however, it is easier to place and much more concise .. just wish sometimes the top was flat and Sony had spent the few dollars it would have taken to give it wireless N ..

My use is streaming and BD .. rare game play when my grandkids are around .. and my units get a regular workout ..

Sometimes I think Sony just attracts nay sayers .. for some strange reason .. there is probably no manufacturer on any board that gets trashed more regularly than Sony .. (except perhaps Bose .. ) ..

That said, I'd swap my 2 phatties for a couple slims at $99 a pop .. in fact, I'm going to look into it .. glad I found the thread

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post #99 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:15 AM
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btw, I found something that is more detailed and probably more credible than most forum posts on the causes of YLOD in ps3s:
from http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...-with-an-oven/

Quote:
So what causes the YLOD? There are several prevailing theories, including a faulty power supply, corrupted hard drive, or virus circulating through the PSN (which is probably 100% false). But, while I'm not saying that these AREN'T the cause of your particular case of YLOD, I will say that most likely, the cause of your issue are the solder balls underneath the RSX (basically the GPU, or Graphics Processing Unit) and Cell BE (basically the CPU, or Central Processing Unit) chips. These can be seen in the picture on this page. This style of fastening the chips to the board is know as BGA, or Ball Grid Array. What you really need to know though, is that under the chips their are hundreds of tiny balls of solder, which pass information from the chip to the motherboard. These balls are constantly submitted to intense heat due to the chip above them, which is being cooled by a huge heat-sink and fan.

This would all be hunky dory, except for the lead free solder which composes the chips. The European Union, a political and economic union of 27 countries, banned the importation of electronics containing lead in 2006, which has caused most electronics manufactures to switch to lead free solder in their products, even those sold in the U.S. (thanks to Entropy512 for the information). Unfortunately lead free solder has two (theorized) weaknesses. The first is that with repeated, high temperature (higher than what Sony engineers intended) exposure caused by 8 hour Call of Duty marathons or similar, followed by rapid cooling of the console once turned off, the balls begin to lose their elasticity, and eventually crack. This causes an open circuit, and when you try and power the PS3 up again, you are greeted with the YLOD. The other theory is that over time, due to the aforementioned high temperatures, the balls begin to grow "tin whiskers" which cause a short with another ball nearby, once again causing the YLOD.
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post #100 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
btw, I found something that is more detailed and probably more credible than most forum posts on the causes of YLOD in ps3s:
from http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...-with-an-oven/
What exactly makes this more credible?


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post #101 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Talk about suckers...I just heard about this guy who shelled out an additional $193 Canadian for a refurbished unit when his 80gig - which was less than 4 years old - died! lol!! And he admits that this one will probably break too!
Yeah we heard it already. Poorly designed. Cheap solder. It's been proven and documented. blah, blah, blah. Maybe you can give morphinapg a hand finding some real evidence of this.
Cute, but so others do not take this the wrong way, I did not give Sony ANY money when they quoted me 193 bucks for a "repair" on my 13 month old 80 gig PS3. I was acutally quite pissed off with them after days of phone calls.I took it as high as I could up their corporate ladder and eventually told them to @#$@# off. I am as patient as patient gets, I will approach a situation like this over the phone in a calm and polite manner. I did helpdesk support myself for a while so I know what these guys go through. But after speaking to several techs and so called Supervisors, all of which were ignorant, dis-respectiful arrogant PRICKS, I gave up. I was expecting poor attitude, but what I had put up with on the phone was just plain un-professional. I want't too happy about my 360 dying either but at least MS's techs were nice and actually helpful on the phone.

I fixed the laser myself. Instead of 193$ it was 70 bucks. It's a 10 min repair

...and again, so far we have no indication that this fantastic $99 repair is on all fat PS3's. only 20/60 gig versions. I have a request into Sony right now asking just that..And why is it that people fully accept that 360's die yet are in denial that Ps3's have issues? I know more people with dead ps3's these days then 360's. Back when launch 360's were dying left and right we heard all of the usal fanboy crap too..."prove it, it only seems bad in the internetz, forums just make things seem worse then they really are" and so on....
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post #102 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:26 AM
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Heh. A forum post about putting a CPU motherboard in an oven. That clears everything up.

So, basically, we can blame Europe for the use of lead-free solder?

*shakes fist at Europe*

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post #103 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Heh. A forum post about putting a CPU motherboard in an oven. That clears everything up.

So, basically, we can blame Europe for the use of lead-free solder?

*shakes fist at Europe*

It's not a forum post. It's from a website that teaches you how to fix the majority of YLODs with the oven method, which works time and time again.
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post #104 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Heh. A forum post about putting a CPU motherboard in an oven. That clears everything up.

So, basically, we can blame Europe for the use of lead-free solder?

*shakes fist at Europe*

Shhhhhhhh... He thinks that the anonymous contributors on Instructibles are more credible than the anonymous contributors on forums.


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post #105 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 01:16 PM
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Whatever is being quoted itself says "prevailing theories". Next.
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post #106 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 02:47 PM
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like I said before, I couldn't care less if you believe be or acknowledge whatever proof I may present (ignoring the fact that that's about as concrete as you could possibly get, since Sony isn't going to release such stats on YLODs) so say what you want I don't care. I know that PS3s generally last 2-3 years before YLODing, some shorter, some longer, but on average that's the lifespan. I don't have to prove it, to me observation is enough proof. If it's not enough for you then, oh well, that's your problem not mine.
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post #107 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 02:53 PM
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Ok to all those trolls arguing here, Please read my Signature line
That said, read the statistics from consumer reports Failure rate survey
The PS3 is well within the norm and I have read the repair rates for the PS3 are in single digit percentages. The 360 is in a class by itself. at 30+percent as documented by MS in their Shareholder reports and filings with the SEC etc...
Electronics have a 15% failure rate
Get Peace of Mind that won't cost you a fortune
The average new electronics item has a 15% failure rate in its first 3 to 4 years. Used and refurbished items are even more likely to fail than new items.

An independent study of new iPods (by MacInTouch) found a 15% iPod failure rate. Another study of new laptops (by Gartner) found a 22% laptop hardware failure rate.

Consumer Reports recently (November 2006) published a study on consumer electronics failure rates. Almost all items had a greater than 10% repair rate in their 4th year (with laptops up to 43%).

Repair rates for 3- to 4-year-old products.
Product Repair Rate
Laptop computer 43%
Refrigerator: side-by-side, with icemaker and dispenser 37
Rider mower 32
Lawn tractor 31
Desktop computer 31
Washing machine (front-loading) 29
Self-propelled mower 28
Vacuum cleaner (canister) 23
Washing machine (top-loading) 22
Dishwasher 21
Refrigerator: top- and bottom-freezer, w/ icemaker 20
Gas range 20
Wall oven (electric) 19
Push mower (gas) 18
Cooktop (gas) 17
Microwave oven (over-the-range) 17
Clothes dryer 15
Camcorder (digital) 13
Vacuum cleaner (upright) 13
Refrigerator: top- and bottom-freezer, no icemaker 12
Range (electric) 11
Cooktop (electric) 11
Digital camera 10
TV: 30- to 36-inch direct view 8
TV: 25- to 27-inch direct view 6
Source:
Consumer Reports National Research Center, 2006 Product Reliability Survey

DJ

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8.5% of the human population
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post #108 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 03:01 PM
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Oh and I did take my release 60GB apart last week to install the oversized 1TB HDD.. i noticed that the thermal paste was somewhat dried out and cracked... it looks like they used the basic white stuff too. I replaced the Paste with Arctic Silver... I have read this is good preventative maintenance if you are comfortable disassembling your PS3..

DJ

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post #109 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 03:02 PM
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Hey guys. Just want to say that my PS3 is 1 year, 3 months, and 22 days old. That's all.
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post #110 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by HawaiianHDaddict View Post

Hey guys. Just want to say that my PS3 is 1 year, 3 months, and 22 days old. That's all.

Have you put it in the oven yet?

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post #111 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Have you put in in the oven yet?

No. But based on morphinapg's expert opinion that PS3s have a 2-3 year life span, it would seem that my PS3 is going through a midlife crisis. Should I buy my PS3 an expensive sports car or get it a young girlfriend?? I want to keep my PS3 happy.
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post #112 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HawaiianHDaddict View Post

No. But based on morphinapg's expert opinion that PS3s have a 2-3 year life span, it would seem that my PS3 is going through a midlife crisis. Should I buy my PS3 an expensive sports car or get it a young girlfriend?? I want to keep my PS3 happy.

+1 i love it
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post #113 of 145 Old 02-01-2011, 07:27 PM
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I think your ps3 would like a young gf and a sports car.

My 60 gig launch is still kicking.

XBL: TRAIL MIX A L0T
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post #114 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianHDaddict View Post

No. But based on morphinapg's expert opinion that PS3s have a 2-3 year life span, it would seem that my PS3 is going through a midlife crisis. Should I buy my PS3 an expensive sports car or get it a young girlfriend?? I want to keep my PS3 happy.

What do you mean "or," you cheap bastard?

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post #115 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 05:39 AM
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I have no dog in this race. I own both the PS3 (bought a 60 gig launch that I gifted to my bro and still runs & an 80 gig fat that also still runs) and XBox 360 (had a 20 gig launch that RROD'd, got replaced by MS & then gifted to my bro which still runs, a 120 gig Elite, which is now a paperweight, and a new 'Slim' 360).

Official, unbiased data on issues like this is hard to come by. It can be a PR nightmare for the company & very few tech media outlets are going to function as Consumer Reports & put an electronic device through torture testing under conditions that may not match what the avg gamer would put the system through.

That said, someone did take the time to crunch some numbers. http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbo...ility-08-2009/ . Take from it what you will.

Some thoughts: Is the solder really to blame? Maybe...I really don't know. What I do know is that there are military-spec electrical components available (can't have that Navy F-35 fall out of the air right?). Could/would that solve the issue? Again, I don't know.
Also...to the poster who took the individual to task for using the words 'certain' and 'most' in his post; what was said is logically consistent. "I am certain all humans will die, most in about 70 years". It's called a Gaussian curve.
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post #116 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 05:52 AM
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That's definitely the most thorough looking analysis. And, it appears to be on a fairly small sample. Still, probably more reliable than "web posts I've noticed, tabulated in my mind, and pulled number out of my ass."

So, the PS3 is much more reliable than the original model XBox and less reliable than the Wii. Which is something that I was pretty sure was generally accepted by the hive mind.





Also--I've been having fun the last day thinking of an SNL type skit about game console repairmen whose catchphrase is, "I know--Put it in the oven!"

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post #117 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 05:55 AM
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And IF you exclude RROD, then the failure rates are nearly equal, with the PS3 maintaining a slight edge.
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post #118 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flagyl View Post

I have no dog in this race. I own both the PS3 (bought a 60 gig launch that I gifted to my bro and still runs & an 80 gig that also still runs) and XBox 360 (had a 20 gig launch that RROD'd, got replaced by MS & then gifted to my bro which still runs, a 120 gig Elite, which is now a paperweight, and a new 'Slim' 360).

Official, unbiased data on issues like this is hard to come by. It can be a PR nightmare for the company & very few tech media outlets are going to function as Consumer Reports & put an electronic device through torture testing under conditions that may not match what the avg gamer would out the system through.

That said, some did take the time to crunch some numbers. http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbo...ility-08-2009/ . Take from it what you will.

Some thoughts: Is the solder really to blame? Maybe...I really don't know. What I do know is that there are military-spec electrical components available (can't have that Navy F-35 fall out of the air right?). Could/would that solve the issue? Again, I don't know.
Also...to the poster who took the individual to task for using the words 'certain' and 'most' in his post; what was said is logically consistent. "I am certain all humans will die, most in about 70 years". It's called a Gaussian curve.

That's a good report, but unfortunately is limited to the first 2 years of the system's life, which is just barely touching the time frame I suggested. I think if the report was moire like the first 4 or 5 years of the system it'd be a much higher percentage of PS3, and much more in line with what I've suggested. Although I do still believe 360 will still have a higher failure rate in that time period.

And to those making fun of the oven method. Have you done your research? While it sounds strange, it's actually one of the generally accepted methods of fixing a YLOD, if you can't afford other more expensive methods, as it's nearly free to do. Watch some videos on youtube about it.
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post #119 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 06:25 AM
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Watch some videos on youtube about it.

No.

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post #120 of 145 Old 02-02-2011, 06:27 AM
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No.

*sigh*
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