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post #721 of 1994 Old 12-19-2012, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

With the Wii U hitting a million units after 20 days on the market, neither Sony nor Microsoft can really afford to wait till 2014 and give Nintendo 2 years free and clear to build an install base and then release a new console 3 years later that puts them to shame.

Let's see how sales pan out. Nintendo has a very loyal group of fans. They also had the only console launch in recent memory where you could walk into a store and pick one off the shelf, right around Christmas season to boot.

I know a lot of the initial scarcity is BS to generate marketing and buzz, but not all of it. Sony sold 600,000 PS3's in it's first two days at launch. Xbox was even greater.
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post #722 of 1994 Old 12-19-2012, 06:30 PM
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Nintendo has been flooding the market with systems, they expect to have 3.5 million units shipped by the end of the year. Hard to judge demand on store stock when they are getting 2-3 shipments a week.

What really surprises me is making several trips a week to the same Walmart and seeing stock levels change. They are obviously selling a lot of them, but they are also getting a lot every few days.

And Sony shipped 200k PS3s to Japan and sold 90k on day one. Sony shipped under 300k to the US and never released sales numbers. The had 1 million shipped to the US by January, but again never said how many were actually bought by customers.

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post #723 of 1994 Old 12-19-2012, 08:10 PM
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You go to Walmart several times a week to check their stock of Wii U's?

Enjoying BF4 on the PS4, bugs and all.
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post #724 of 1994 Old 12-19-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

You go to Walmart several times a week to check their stock of Wii U's?

heh, I had to go several times these past few weeks for various reasons, but I did check the stock level each time, one day they had one deluxe, 3 days later it looked like 20, yesterday, 2. It sure looks like it is selling fairly well.

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post #725 of 1994 Old 12-19-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

You go to Walmart several times a week to check their stock of Wii U's?
You beat me to it!
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post #726 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

With the Wii U hitting a million units after 20 days on the market, neither Sony nor Microsoft can really afford to wait till 2014 and give Nintendo 2 years free and clear to build an install base and then release a new console 3 years later that puts them to shame.
You're saying Nintendo will put out a console that puts Sony and MS to shame? The same company that is now releasing a console on par with 7 year old consoles? I highly doubt that will ever happen.

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post #727 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 11:48 AM
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Nintendo will be getting ready to release their next console in 2017, and based on current rumors, the PS4 and 720 will just be hitting their stride due to them taking so long to release. (And they won't be monster machines either, neither company wants to lose billions again this generation) A 2014 release would really hurt Sony and Microsoft in the long run, especially if they sell their systems for a loss.

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post #728 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Nintendo will be getting ready to release their next console in 2017, and based on current rumors, the PS4 and 720 will just be hitting their stride due to them taking so long to release. (And they won't be monster machines either, neither company wants to lose billions again this generation) A 2014 release would really hurt Sony and Microsoft in the long run, especially if they sell their systems for a loss.
If Nintendo didn't want to go all out after selling so many Wii's, what makes you think the console after the Wii U will be any different. If anything, they will just play catch up again.

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post #729 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 01:17 PM
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I hope this is BS, A mobile chip in a console. Doesn't sound good.
http://www.gamechup.com/xbox-720-in-beta-new-dev-kits-shipped-amd-hd8000m-to-power-next-gen-consoles/
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post #730 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 01:28 PM
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I'm really curious about what Valve will bring to the table with their rumored (confirmed?) console, they already have a great online network and they're familiar with how PC players like to have awesome graphics/textures, it'll be really interesting if their console turned out to be even or better than Playstation's or Microsoft's. Unless of course their "console" turned out to be a mini PC or something like that which doesn't interest me at all since I have no problem connecting my PC to my HDTV already.

More options and competition will only give us better games, I'll buy all consoles if each had unique strengths, I wasn't interested in what Nintendo or Microsoft offered on top of what the PS3 had this gen so lets see if that changes with next gen.


Edit: sorry about the double posts, I have no idea why the forums are so buggy for me lately!

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post #731 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaidonjin View Post

I hope this is BS, A mobile chip in a console. Doesn't sound good.
http://www.gamechup.com/xbox-720-in-beta-new-dev-kits-shipped-amd-hd8000m-to-power-next-gen-consoles/

A mobile chip isn't a bad thing. Just means they don't want a heat producing monster. (it will still be powerful, just not a massive leap like past gens were)

As for Nintendo, they don't like to take a loss and they sell cheap to retailers so they make a healthy profit as well. The Wii U is selling to retailers at just over cost. (less than $5 over) they also discovered with the Wii that power doesn't sell, something Sony and Microsoft have also learned after this last gen.

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post #732 of 1994 Old 12-20-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

I'm really curious about what Valve will bring to the table with their rumored (confirmed?) console, they already have a great online network and they're familiar with how PC players like to have awesome graphics/textures, it'll be really interesting if their console turned out to be even or better than Playstation's or Microsoft's. Unless of course their "console" turned out to be a mini PC or something like that which doesn't interest me at all since I have no problem connecting my PC to my HDTV already.
More options and competition will only give us better games, I'll buy all consoles if each had unique strengths, I wasn't interested in what Nintendo or Microsoft offered on top of what the PS3 had this gen so lets see if that changes with next gen.
Edit: sorry about the double posts, I have no idea why the forums are so buggy for me lately!

I would buy this if it was high end and had a controller.
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post #733 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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A new Sony patent application suggests that the PS4 may have both a high-powered GPU and a low-powered GPU.

Obviously the big brother would be the muscle for general gaming if true, but there are all kinds of possibilities for the little brother. For one, it could keep the PS4 in low power mode when used for non-gaming apps like movie streaming. It could possibly also be used to handle background functions as you play a game in ways more visually demanding than using the Home button to do XMB stuff on the PS3.

In gaming, maybe the low powered GPU could be used exclusively for Gaikai streaming (including maybe a low cost, Gaikai-only budget PS4 down the line?), or make use of that chip for intensive physics routines like what Nvidia allows with dual GPUs for its PhysX effects on PC.

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post #734 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 08:52 AM
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To be successful, these multi-functional consoles we're going to see next gen need to be good at handling all their tasks. Having a second GPU for "everything else" is a good way to see great performance of various apps and streaming. The downside will be what they have to remove from the box to keep the price right. Will the addition of this chip come at the cost of less RAM? Will it mean a slower, cheaper optical drive? Will the cost of an extra GPU kill my dreams of a rear USB port?

I say bring it, but only if it's affordable.

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post #735 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the low powered graphic processor is apparently on an integrated APU which houses the CPU as well, like what we see in mobile machines. If so, the integration cuts costs in some ways.

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post #736 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Well, the low powered graphic processor is apparently on an integrated APU which houses the CPU as well, like what we see in mobile machines. If so, the integration cuts costs in some ways.

Using a custom mobile APU (probably a true 4 core cpu) with a Mobile 8000 series GPU would produce some interesting performance. 1080p 60fps would be within reason if they clock them high enough. (after all, a console has a lot more room for cooling than a laptop)

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post #737 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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But proper cooling would need to be addressed if the rumored dual GPU setup allowed both to be used simultaneously, i.e. for advanced physics in games. The patent is to allow functions to easily switch between them, so maybe it is one chip in action or the other.

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post #738 of 1994 Old 12-21-2012, 01:27 PM
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But proper cooling would need to be addressed if the rumored dual GPU setup allowed both to be used simultaneously, i.e. for advanced physics in games. The patent is to allow functions to easily switch between them, so maybe it is one chip in action or the other.

If they are indeed mobile chips, both GPUs and the CPU would probably use well under 100w of power (compared to the 200w that the PS3 used at launch)

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post #739 of 1994 Old 12-22-2012, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I would think only the lesser GPU is mobile.

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post #740 of 1994 Old 12-22-2012, 08:31 AM
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I would think only the lesser GPU is mobile.

The 8800m would be stronger than the APU GPU, even if it was a stock A10 based on that tech sheet in the link above.

The A10 stock is a fairly hot chip, so a mobile variant is a safer choice.

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post #741 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:27 AM
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I heard there may be contracts like buying a cell phone. Three year subscription and $100 for the console.
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post #742 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:42 AM
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I heard there may be contracts like buying a cell phone. Three year subscription and $100 for the console.

Well if Sony sees MS getting return on their experiment I wouldn't doubt if that's an option. Maybe this way we can get higher quality hardware with them being able to shoulder the burden of cost via the subscription they'll get every month. It's actually a pretty smart move and I'm not sure how they've not thought of this before. You could argue kids really can't buy hardware then but do they now? Hell every kid I know has a cell phone so not sure how this would be any different. Besides the market is geared more towards those with disposable income anyway so this might not be a bad idea. It would pretty much nullify the aspect of "Free PSN" but if the end result is we get much better hardware I'll gladly pay 20-25 bucks a month for it. Just my opinion of course.
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post #743 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 11:51 AM
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Sony could just make PS+ the paid for service.

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post #744 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 09:38 PM
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Alright, new spec and price speculation for a late 2013, early 2014 launch based on the AMD release posted above.

GPU - AMD 8850m
APU - A10 2013 Mobile quad core @ 3.0ghz AMD 8600m gpu

All of the above is built into a single chip by AMD as a custom order. Uses under 150w at full load.

4GB DDR5 RAM for games only.

System on a chip with 1gb RAM and a sub 1ghz processor for all OS functions.

1TB HDD

PS3 compatibility built in, Move not included.

Launch Price $399 and is sold to retailers at a loss. (less than $50 per unit at most) It all depends on how good of a deal Sony can get on their bulk orders from AMD. Hopefully it won't cost them more than $120 per APU.

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post #745 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 09:43 PM
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I say just drop any PS3 game support from the get go if it requires more hardware and add to the cost, Sony shouldn't make the same mistake again.

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post #746 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

I say just drop any PS3 game support from the get go if it requires more hardware and add to the cost, Sony shouldn't make the same mistake again.

Thanks to the PSN, PS3 compatibility is pretty much required now. The only way to properly exclude it would be an add on. And really, eventually it would just be combined with a hardware revision anyway.

Some time in 2013 the PS3 is getting another die shrink (from the 40nm range to the 20nm range) so costs will go down even more before the PS4 launches.

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post #747 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:18 PM
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It still won't be free, I mean the PS2 got very very cheap but it was still removed, even partial backwards compatible PS3 that didn't have the emotion engine were cancelled to cut costs further, any expense should go into next gen tech IMO, more RAM or faster optical drive..etc

Why would PSN force PS3 game compatibility? I might be missing something here, but if it's about downloadable PS3 games, I don't see any problem in making separate sections for PS3 and PS4 without making PS4 forced to run everything there is on PSN.

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post #748 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:36 PM
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It is more about asuring your customers that your PSN purchases on PS3 will still work once you move on to new hardware. Lots of games are PSN exclusive and people will NOT be happy if they can't play them on their PS4. (same with current paying PS+ members who would probably make the jump to PS4 sooner than most.)

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post #749 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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After the problems with PS2 BC, I'd be surprised if PS3 support will be present unless it is streamed via Gaikai.

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post #750 of 1994 Old 12-24-2012, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Thanks to the PSN, PS3 compatibility is pretty much required now. The only way to properly exclude it would be an add on. And really, eventually it would just be combined with a hardware revision anyway.
Some time in 2013 the PS3 is getting another die shrink (from the 40nm range to the 20nm range) so costs will go down even more before the PS4 launches.
Where BC is concerned, there are no guarantees. No company has a good record in this arena, and I don't think the existence of PSN guarantees anything. Just look at the abysmal track record for games that should by all rights work just fine between PSP, PS3, and PSVita. It isn't just about software compatibility. Licensing and business decisions (the ability to make more money on the same titles) play an even bigger role. And much of that is out of Sony's hands.

The transition to the next console will only exacerbate those backwards compatibility problems. I'm sure Sony will do what they can to make sure there's as much BC as possible, but it won't be 100%. And based on prior history, it could be far, far lower than that.

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