PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1994 Old 01-08-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I don't think those would hold up in court. EULAs are more about "stacking the odds" rather than "rigging the system."
Whatever. Arbitration is the new normal. Administrative law like the TSA rules. Just the way it is.
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post #812 of 1994 Old 01-08-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

Whatever. Arbitration is the new normal. Administrative law like the TSA rules. Just the way it is.
Right. Which means future suits still end up in a settlement. EULA does nothing to "prevent" a class action suit from happening. Just lowers the likely settlement.

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post #813 of 1994 Old 01-08-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Right. Which means future suits still end up in a settlement. EULA does nothing to "prevent" a class action suit from happening. Just lowers the likely settlement.
BUT in an arbitration settlement it's a one on one thing not a group of people. SO if you have the problem they take it up with just you.
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post #814 of 1994 Old 01-09-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

BUT in an arbitration settlement it's a one on one thing not a group of people. SO if you have the problem they take it up with just you.
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post #815 of 1994 Old 01-10-2013, 12:10 PM
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Dune isn't my favorite but still a decent flick:)

This thread needs to be back on track! Lucky thing I found this floating around. It's translated from Japanese I don't know how many times, and the source website is a Wordpress page. The info contained within is, however, interesting:

http://model4.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/world-exclusive-report-orbis-and-orbi-joint-sega-sony-project/
Quote:
MODEL4 can today exclusively reveal the Playstation Orbis (Consumer) and Sega Orbi (Amusement) are the same chipset.

Sega Orbi is set for reveal first at JAEPO in Chiba, Tokyo, Japan on the 15th of February with the PlayStation Orbis reveal to take place in Arizona on the 25th 10 days later.

AMD is set to provide the CPU & GPU for both platforms.

SEGA Orbi was filed early last year with the US trademark office. Apparently it sparked a rumor of a Dreamcast 2 (lol) for a while. Since Japan still has these things called "Arcades", and partner company Sammy makes amusement center games, the whole Orbi thing kinda makes sense. SEGA also used the same basic chipset for its console and arcade machines back in Dreamcast days so they have a history of this kind of thing.

The date in Arizona is the same as the PlayStation meeting this year. This meeting is usually for retailers and sales strategy, not announcements of anything new. This is the second rumor that places a PS4 announcement from this meeting.

All the hardware makers are beginning the dance. Turn up the music!

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post #816 of 1994 Old 01-13-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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According to an interview translator at NeoGAF, one of Sony Japan's execs implies that the next PlayStation console will be at E3, but that announcements could take place in May:
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Question: Regarding consoles, people say that Sony will make announcements this year and that would be working on the new PlayStation. Are we going to see a new model in some months?

Answer: It's still a big secret, but our Sony PlayStation friends are getting ready. I only can say that we're focused on the games related E3 event, booked for June. The announcement can take place there or even before, in May.



Question: But are you working on a big reveal or in something complementary?

Answer: Probably the first, we plan to release big news for this date, but we have to wait at least until May.

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post #817 of 1994 Old 01-13-2013, 03:04 PM
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Interesting rumor about Sega and Sony, especially with all the rumors of Nintendo being in talks to buy Sega...

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post #818 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 01:21 PM
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VG247 Rumors, plus More to Come from CES
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If latest rumours regarding next generation hardware are to be believed, the next PlayStation is to be significantly more powerful that the next Xbox.

Developer sources, speaking after meetings at CES, have told VG247 that the next PlayStation, codenamed Orbis, will have a run-capability of 1.84 teraflops. Conversely, the next Xbox, codenamed Durango, will be able to achieve 1.23 teraflops.

If true, these numbers mean PlayStation 4 will have a 50% raw, computational power advantage over Xbox 720. While PS4 will have greater grunt that 720, however, the Microsoft machine has significantly more RAM at 8Gb, we’ve been told. Our source said that 3Gb is reserved for the OS, apps and security, leaving 4-5Gb for games.

Orbis will have 4Gb of RAM, said our source, of which 1Gb will be reserved for for OS, security and apps, leaving some 3Gb for games.

Both machines will supposedly have have the ability to read 100Gb Blu-ray discs.

Durango is apparently based on the Radeon HD 8770 GPU.

PlayStation 4 has been previously rumoured to be built on AMD’s A10 APU.

It was recently claimed that the two machines are to be announced in late March. It’s widely assumed that both consoles will launch in November this year. VG247 is under the impression that several media outlets are in possession of documents related to Durango from CES and are currently working on major leak stories.

Ignoring all the versus talk, this is the second rumor I've seen that places 4GB RAM in the PS4. How much RAM is a key indicator of the type of performance we can expect. 4GB is a giant increase over PS3 and a welcome one, long as these rumors hold true. I've always believed that the next consoles have to be good at multitasking to be successful, and rumors are pointing to them being more capable than they are now.

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post #819 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 01:50 PM
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I don't really understand much about computer stuff, but isn't ram pretty cheap these days? How much do y'all think is NEEDED for the ps4? I was told when I bought my laptop that 4gb was fine unless I was going to do a lot of gaming, which I don't. But that's what this is for.
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post #820 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I don't really understand much about computer stuff, but isn't ram pretty cheap these days? How much do y'all think is NEEDED for the ps4? I was told when I bought my laptop that 4gb was fine unless I was going to do a lot of gaming, which I don't. But that's what this is for.

Way more than 256 megs that the PS3 has.

4 Gigs I'd say would be a good value (pending its a 64-bit cpu)

How about this... make it expandable.
Who cares about adding a 2nd OS.
I want to be able to upgrade the memory, HD, and maybe even the gfx card.

4GB allows programmers to uncompress textures and things and stick them in memory...
No swapping to disk and uncompressing things on the fly and purginf things that just fell out of view on the screen.
Repeat a gazillion times.

Granted that can be done but it makes programming a _lot_ harder.

That's a big reason PS3 game development was slow initially.

Everyone lived in the Windows/XBox motto of having vast memory available.
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post #821 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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4gb is a lot for a gaming console. They don't have the RAM overhead of a bloated OS like we have on Windows and Mac systems. Even on PCs, gaming may not need 4GB of RAM, gaming is heavily reliant on graphics capabilities. The specs above do not say how much GPU RAM will be included.

That said, the price diffrence between the price of 4GB and 8GB isn't huge. But when you are cranking out hundreds of thousands of units, it adds up.
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post #822 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I don't really understand much about computer stuff, but isn't ram pretty cheap these days? How much do y'all think is NEEDED for the ps4? I was told when I bought my laptop that 4gb was fine unless I was going to do a lot of gaming, which I don't. But that's what this is for.

Assuming we're talking about shared system/GPU memory, I'd be disappointed if it came with any less than 4GB. That's the minimum I'd want to see for a true next gen system, and its where i think theyll ultimately come in at. 8GB would be preferable though. If its there, devs will put it to good use.

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post #823 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 04:46 PM
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You can't have large, cheap and high bandwidth memory pools. Pick two out of three. Looks like Sony is going small pool (4GB) and high bandwidth (192GB/s). Being unified and not having eDRAM makes it a developer dream as long as they have enough to work with.

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post #824 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post

You can't have large, cheap and high bandwidth memory pools. Pick two out of three. Looks like Sony is going small pool (4GB) and high bandwidth (192GB/s). Being unified and not having eDRAM makes it a developer dream as long as they have enough to work with.

As long as they can back that 4GB up with a reasonable amount of fast NAND cache, that'd be a worthwhile tradeoff.

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post #825 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I don't really understand much about computer stuff, but isn't ram pretty cheap these days? How much do y'all think is NEEDED for the ps4? I was told when I bought my laptop that 4gb was fine unless I was going to do a lot of gaming, which I don't. But that's what this is for.

They are not using off-the-shelf DDR 2 or 3 RAM that you have in your PC. Instead (if the rumors are true), they are using 4GB of the much faster GDDR5 RAM which zips along at a speedy 192 GByte/ sec for the memory bandwidth. Keep in mind that this next gen real-time demo runs on only 1.8 GB of VRAM:



Relatively speaking to the tech in the rest of the rumored specs, the PS4 should be in the best shape RAM-wise than any Sony game machine previously released.

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post #826 of 1994 Old 01-17-2013, 09:02 PM
 
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The rumors are nice, but lets wait and see. Sony is notorious for their quirky hardware philosophies. Not that they're wrong, just a developer nightmare for those not wanting to invest the time in it.

An adequate but smaller pool of very fast multiuse RAM would be pretty awesome if the other rumors are true.
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post #827 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 10:57 AM
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Here we go...

Eurogamer: Sony to drop DualShock for the next PlayStation
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Sony will drop the DualShock controller for the next PlayStation, according to a new report.

Sources told CVG Sony has tested new controllers with biometric sensors on the grips and an LCD touch-screen.

This information tallies with what Eurogamer has heard from our own sources. We understand that as of six months ago Sony was testing a controller that had an LCD touch-screen on the front and biometrics functionality on the back. These designs, we were told, have changed almost every month, but are for the controller for the next PlayStation.

Biometrics technology captures data from the player's body, such as temperature and heart rate. Half-Life developer Valve has been experimenting with the tech, trying to discover new game experiences that would benefit from it.

Sony did not comment.

The DualShock controller was introduced alongside the original PlayStation in 1997 and has been used for each PlayStation home console since.

It is expected that the PlayStation Vita will be compatible with the next PlayStation. CVG suggests existing PlayStation 3 controllers will work with the console in a similar way that Wii Remotes work with the Wii U.

And there's another...

CVG: Sony to abandon DualShock design for PS4. New controller to break the mould; Touch-screen and biometric sensors being tested.
Quote:
PlayStation will bring an end to a sixteen-year tradition of DualShock controllers with the release of the PlayStation 4, CVG has learned. A senior games studio source working on an upcoming Sony game says the new system's controller has undergone numerous iterations, few of which resemble the DualShock build that has become synonymous with PlayStation.

Experiments within Sony's R&D department are thought to have been extensive. Versions of the new PS4 pad include biometric sensors on the grips and an LCD touch screen, the development source claimed.

A second source, working in a separate part of the industry but still connected to Sony, said PlayStation engineers are "trying to emulate the same user interface philosophies as the PS Vita". This is likely a reference to the touch-screen capabilities of the PlayStation handheld, and a suggestion that Sony will tightly integrate its portable and home systems.

The new console - codenamed Orbis - will be revealed in a matter of weeks, not months.

Sony has declined to comment.

While the DualShock will not be a primary controller for the next PlayStation, it is likely that the range of PS3 controllers will be compatible with the next-gen system. There is a possibility they could be used as secondary controllers, much like with how Wii Remotes interact with the Wii U.

One potential stumbling block is Sony's complex partnership with Immersion - the patent-holder of the rumble tech used in Sony's pads. In March 2007, Immersion settled its patent infringement suit with Sony, after claiming that the company had used its technologies without permission.

CVG understands that Sony has paid Immersion more than $150 million in damages, license fees and other costs since the settlement. However, a small portion (initially $20 million) of this was redirected to Microsoft, which owns about 10 per cent of Immersion.

Sony's licence agreement with Immersion ends in 2017, SEC documents show, but as part of the deal Immersion has given Sony an option to expand the scope of the licence for future consoles. However, the complications of the deal may have convinced Sony that it should seek different designs and ideas for its next controller.

Sony introduced the DualShock for the first PlayStation in 1997 - its twin analogue sticks were, at the time, considered a distinct improvement over the N64 pads from rival Nintendo.

Over the years, the controller has evolved to include rumble tech (as well as briefly omit it), as well as add on wireless capabilities and limited motion control properties.

In 2007 Sony won an Emmy award for 'Peripheral Development and Technological Impact of Videogame Controllers'.

The new PS4 controller design, which remains a closely guarded secret across the PlayStation organisation, is expected to break new mould for Sony. The biometric tech, in particular, is something games studios such as Valve are interested in due to its function as a heart beat sensor.

During the development of the PlayStation 3, Sony initially signalled its interest in building a new controller by showcasing the infamous 'banana pad' - a model that was swiftly replaced by the DualShock following public derision.

Emphasis by me. "To be revealed in weeks, not months". This is the second rumor hinting at a stand alone reveal that's separate, and before, E3.

The upcoming GDC should prove very interesting this year.

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post #828 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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I'm in the camp that says don't fix what's not broken, but if Sony can bring a new controller to the table that can surpass the DS, then I'm all for it, won't judge till it's out. I bet that Kojima will have a blast with those biometric features if such thing happened lol

GDC will be crazy, Sony should really try as hard as they can to release the next console before Microsoft does, playing catchup was a nightmare for them during this gen.

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post #829 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 11:46 AM
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Well, this could be it folks. Richard Leadbetter at DF is calling it all but confirmed:
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Both the next generation PlayStation - and its Xbox competitor - feature eight-core CPUs clocked at 1.6GHz according to sources trusted by Digital Foundry. The main processor architecture driving both consoles is said to be derived the new "Jaguar" technology currently in development by Intel's arch-rival, AMD. These are low-power processor cores designed for the entry-level laptop and tablet market, offering an excellent ratio between power consumption and performance. The PC Jaguar products are set to ship later this year in a quad-core configuration - next-gen consoles see the core count double with some customisations added to the overall design.

Married to the eight-core processor, Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design - the Radeon 7970M - could be a strong basis for a next-gen console graphics core in terms of power consumption and die-size. Running at 850MHz and featuring 20 of AMD's "Graphics Core Next" compute units, our information suggests that Orbis shaves off 10 per cent of that number, offering up 18 CUs in total, and sees a mild downclock to 800MHz. Incorporated into a design dedicated to cutting-edge visuals and gameplay, this hardware has some serious potential.

[...]

We also have hard data on Orbis's memory set-up. It features 4GB of GDDR5 - the ultra-fast RAM that typically ships with the latest PC graphics cards - with 512MB reserved for the operating system. This is in stark contrast to the much slower DDR3 that Durango will almost certainly ship with. Microsoft looks set to be using an offshoot of eDRAM technology connected to the graphics core to offset the bandwidth issues the use of DDR3 incurs. Volume of RAM is the key element in Durango's favour - there'll be 8GB in total, with a significant amount (two sources we've spoken to suggest 3GB in total) reserved for the OS.

Read the full article here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

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post #830 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 11:49 AM
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Man, I think someone opened the tap this week! Lots of Orbis rumors and info. This time it's the Digital Foundry guys weighing in with their expectation:

Orbis unmasked: what to expect from the next-gen PlayStation


EDIT: Haha confidence beat me to it!

Very well thought out article. I can't make heads or tails of the hardcore programming stuff, but these guys are supremely confident in their predictions. I think someone at Sony told their engineers they could start to let the cat out of the bag for some free press.

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post #831 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 
Man, I think someone opened the tap this week! Lots of Orbis rumors and info.
It's about right timing wise. Even if not done intentionally, it works out in Sony's favor to let this stuff leak out to the "core" audience--especially if they're planning a big reveal soon.

If the smart people are finally in charge of marketing, they'll know to just let these "rumors" run free and not play the outright denial game.

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post #832 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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Even more conflicting rumors! Every new rumor seems to offer a new spin on the rumored specs.

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post #833 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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I think there are so many conflicting rumors because so many prototypes have been out there. Sony and MS probably only nailed it down a couple months ago.
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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I don't really understand much about computer stuff, but isn't ram pretty cheap these days? How much do y'all think is NEEDED for the ps4? I was told when I bought my laptop that 4gb was fine unless I was going to do a lot of gaming, which I don't. But that's what this is for.

The RAM they are talking about is fast, high quality stuff, not your relatively slow and junky laptop RAM or even desktop RAM.
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post #834 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 12:46 PM
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All I can say is my, now 16 month old, daughter will be getting some cool toys.
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post #835 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 01:43 PM
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I am looking forward to seeing what the controller looks like. I am not a fan of the DS anymore, so that might help sway me. I will only be buying one console at launch time. The only crappy thing is all my friends play Xbox, but they only play shooters and I am so burnt out on them, that I spend most my time playing other games offline anyways. Besides, my two sons are my little fanclub and they have a blast watching me play games, so as long as they are happy then I am good.
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post #836 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 02:58 PM
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If there's any one single source I trust on this, its eurogamer. I think this is the real deal.

It's not as all out powerful as I'd hoped, but its definitely a leap on the order of PS2 to PS3. The controller seems like exactly what Id want for a next gen core gamer system.

I'm glad to see that the PS4 looks like its focusing on games first, xbox seems to be aiming for a versatility that will compromise it.

So....when can I preorder? smile.gif

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post #837 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I am looking forward to seeing what the controller looks like. I am not a fan of the DS anymore, so that might help sway me. I will only be buying one console at launch time. The only crappy thing is all my friends play Xbox, but they only play shooters and I am so burnt out on them, that I spend most my time playing other games offline anyways. Besides, my two sons are my little fanclub and they have a blast watching me play games, so as long as they are happy then I am good.

I suspect the LCD and touchscreen will be very small. DS size at most, it'll be purely auxiliary, not at all like the Wii U.

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post #838 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

If there's any one single source I trust on this, its eurogamer. I think this is the real deal.

It's not as all out powerful as I'd hoped, but its definitely a leap on the order of PS2 to PS3. The controller seems like exactly what Id want for a next gen core gamer system.

I'm glad to see that the PS4 looks like its focusing on games first, xbox seems to be aiming for a versatility that will compromise it.

So....when can I preorder? smile.gif
Crazy, right? Sony is looking at what they should, and not how they can force everyone to use a gimmick like it sounds Xbox will be doing with Kinect 2.0.

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post #839 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

Crazy, right? Sony is looking at what they should, and not how they can force everyone to use a gimmick like it sounds Xbox will be doing with Kinect 2.0.

It's exactly what I want out of them. I'm not really anti-Durango, what they're doing could be very interesting. I really just wanted one console to surpass the other in terms of raw power, and Id rather that one be Sony.

My hope is that the PS4 is just powerful enough that it can run at 60fps what nextbox does at 30fps.

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post #840 of 1994 Old 01-18-2013, 03:44 PM
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"We also have hard data on Orbis's memory set-up. It features 4GB of GDDR5 - the ultra-fast RAM that typically ships with the latest PC graphics cards - with 512MB reserved for the operating system. This is in stark contrast to the much slower DDR3 that Durango will almost certainly ship with."

I am not very tech saavy, so can someone explain what this will mean when the next gen consoles come out if this is true?

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