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PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post)

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#1 ·

The grand unveiling of the PS4 is over! Watch a replay of the show here:

 

 

 

 
#952 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911474


It's a cool little device, but it's too expensive, the games are too expensive to buy and too expensive to make, and the portable market is now dominated by mobile. Even the 3DS is struggling, and that's after a major price drop.


Of course, it could still turn around. But there's just no developer/publisher interest to be had. Everyone's moving to mobile.


Anyway, I hope that Sony has learned those lessons well for its upcoming new console. But, as ever, I'm skeptical. Large businesses are dumb and slow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911510


There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911510


There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...

This is why I haven't bought a Vita as well- Don't see enough free time/dead time when out of the house and would prefer the big tv/console when I am gaming in the house.. I do think a power house can still work in a console- and as MS proved (and Sony with PS+ to an extent), most "hard core" gamers do not mind paying monthly fees... If it means a more powerful console without an outrageous up-front cost- I wouldn't mind paying a contract-type monthly fee for a couple years
 
#953 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911513


I think the days of selling hardware at an initial direct loss are over. The only way that is possible is if they subsidize that loss through some sort of subscription service or 2-year contract through ISPs or something of the sort. That way they amortize the apparent "loss" through sub/service fees.


It could happen. MS has already done it successfully for the 360 (selling the console for $99 with a 2-year contract). And the mobile industry is built on that model. We'll see what Sony does.
I think they can still sell at a loss, it just has to be a smaller percentage. While Sony may not be in financial heaven, it's not as bad as some like to make it. Some people make it sound like they are minutes away from having to declare bankruptcy, and that isn't the case. I would agree with bd, if they want to charge $50 more than the nextbox but you get a bad ass machine, I am down. Just don't make it a $600 machine this time and they will be fine.
 
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#954 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911504


Well just this month Sony finally outsold the 360, by about a million units world wide. They closed the gap and went past it with a year lag. Not too shabby.
Yes, that is something, and Sony has done a great job of turning around the PS3 from its first two years. Unfortunately, they're all fighting over scraps at this point. The traditional gaming industry is hurting, so there are no real "winners" among the big console manufacturers right now. Mobile is kicking their asses in terms of profit margins, growth, new investments, new products, etc., etc. Unless this next round of consoles can prove otherwise, the console market might get swallowed up by mobile platforms, mobile-console hybrids, and Steam-based console-PC hybrids. I know I wouldn't want to be in Sony's shoes right now.
Quote:
Sony also needs to aggressively reassert itself in the US, and I think a social / web 2.0 focus is that coming to fruition. It'll probably be for PS+ members, but they look to have decided they need to take their OS and background functions more seriously this time, rather than slapping in some functionality. Hopefully social aspects means cross game chat, screenshots and video, better clan support, official leader-board, stat tracking, better trophy support, ect. All on a XMB OS that doesn't chug just trying to send a text message to a friend.
Couldn't agree more. Both Steam and Game Center are better social platforms than any of the three consoles. The console platforms got stuck in a rut and stopped pushing that stuff. And in Sony's case, they ran up against hardware limitations. Hopefully, they've learned just how important it is to allow those social features to evolve and to have the hardware capacity and network infrastructure to let that happen. That was Sony's Achilles' Heel this gen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911510


There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...
Yup. Add in the fact that most of us already have portable gaming devices (i.e. phones) with us everywhere we go, and it's harder to justify a Vita. If they're aimed at an older crowd than the 3DS, then they've put themselves squarely in the crosshairs of Apple and Android. I had a Vita for a while, and I found that I just never used it. It just didn't fit into my life anywhere. When I'm traveling, I've got my tablet, laptop, and phone. When I'm at home, I've got consoles and a PC. Where would the Vita fit into that?


Sony really blew their shot at cross-play/cross-buy.
 
#955 ·
Just a quick reply in regards to Vita -



If anybody is considering getting a Vita, check your local Craiglist. Where I live, they are going as cheap as $130 for a Vita with a memory card. It's a bit shocking that they have fallen in price on the secondary market, so far, and so fast.
 
#956 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911493


Even if they don't eat the cost, I'd rather pay $50 more and have the 8GB, rather than sacrifice game quality and UI functionality for the next 6 years with only 4GB.

Agreed. Although in most cases, I'd bet the result is that the nextbox wouldn't see its full potential being used in third party games, since they'll have to build them to th lowest common denominator.
 
#958 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911582


I think they can still sell at a loss, it just has to be a smaller percentage. While Sony may not be in financial heaven, it's not as bad as some like to make it. Some people make it sound like they are minutes away from having to declare bankruptcy, and that isn't the case. I would agree with bd, if they want to charge $50 more than the nextbox but you get a bad ass machine, I am down. Just don't make it a $600 machine this time and they will be fine.

How about something like


stripped down version for $449

or $249 with $15/month 2 year contract


More powerful version with all the bells and whistles for $649

or $449 with $15/month 2 year contract


If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract... while with these ranges- they will get a fair amount to pay $649 to be contract free with a powerhouse... Obviously I pulled these numbers out of thin air, but I think they give reasonable price points that would allow most gamers to purchase a system in their budget, while still allowing sony to put out a powerful console without losing their butt.... I would think the $449 with $15/month 2 yr contract would appeal to many buyers, and Sony would ultimately get $809 over the two years- enough to make a powerful console IMO.


And I agree.. Sony has certainly had to make changes to business, but it's not like they are going belly up anytime soon.
 
#959 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911638


How about something like


stripped down version for $449

or $249 with $15/month 2 year contract


More powerful version with all the bells and whistles for $649

or $449 with $15/month 2 year contract


If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract... while with these ranges- they will get a fair amount to pay $649 to be contract free with a powerhouse... Obviously I pulled these numbers out of thin air, but I think they give reasonable price points that would allow most gamers to purchase a system in their budget, while still allowing sony to put out a powerful console without losing their butt.... I would think the $449 with $15/month 2 yr contract would appeal to many buyers, and Sony would ultimately get $809 over the two years- enough to make a powerful console IMO.
I just don't see that happening. A lot of people are specualting that it will be $400, $450 at the most.
 
#960 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911638


If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract...
Sounds about right. Launching a new console at what looks like $299 (really closer to $450-500 when you add in the 2-year contract and necessary accessories) would go a long way towards getting broad consumer attention.
 
#962 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911654


I just don't see that happening. A lot of people are specualting that it will be $400, $450 at the most.

Then a lot of people are smoking something. There is just no way in the world that the PS4 will come out at $400. The deluxe PS3 was $600 at launch and still sold for a loss over the next few years. The rumored specs of the PS4 puts it at 8-10 times more powerful than that one (along with a high tech controller scheme of some sort), and there is the obvious desire by Sony to sell as close to cost as possible to minimize the per-unit-sold revenue loss this time around.


Putting aside all of the rumors of a subsidized option for a moment, we'll be lucky to see a $450 PS4 on the shelves at launch. My guess is that $500 will be the initial price. No way it will be $400.
 
#964 ·
^^^ It's been posted twice a few pages back.



I'll update the first post and thread title.


~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors/930#post_22911493


Even if they don't eat the cost, I'd rather pay $50 more and have the 8GB, rather than sacrifice game quality and UI functionality for the next 6 years with only 4GB.

I think you significantly underestimate what 3.5 GB of GDDR5 RAM can achieve, even if the PS4 has a shelf life of 10 years like the PS2 & PS3. If the rumors are true, the UI get.s .5 of of the 4 GBs, which is a tremendously high amount. The Vita uses half of that for the UI, and you can easily go in and out of the game to the desktop to run some utility if you want before going back to gaming.


As for the games themselves, I posted a few pages back a real time demo from SquareSoft showing next gen graphics in action:



The amount of RAM needed for this eye-popping visual stunner is roughly half of the 3.5 GB rumored to be available for gaming in the next Playstation. The main thing to appreciate, if the rumors are true, is that the type of RAM being used is turbo fast GDDR5, which means developers can pack in a LOT more juicy visual detail and effects than would otherwise be possible. If Sony chose to use 8GB of this turbo RAM, I'd be a bit worried because it would likely force the price of the machine to rise more than people may be comfortable with.


I mean, two sticks of 2GB GDDR5 RAM is expensive, but doable. Would they expand that to four sticks? That forces some tech adjustments to physically fit them all, which drives up the cost. Would they go with two sticks of 4GB each? I don't think that even exists yet, or is only now being put into production, which again means more $$$.


No PC game I know of uses more than half of 4GB of GDDR5 RAM. I strongly doubt the Edge article is right about 8GB of GDDR5 if that is what they are implying (it isn't clear). But 4GB is plenty awesome (especially with a low .5GB OS overhead) should that be the case.
 
#966 ·
So what's everybody's magic number to day one purchase this thing? I've got a ridiculous backlog of games to complete and told myself I wouldn't be getting a next gen system until Summer/Fall 2014 at the earliest but we all know about the temptation of the shiny new hotness. If it's $400 I'm definitely buying day one, $450 I'd have to sleep on it and above that I'm just going to wait.
 
#967 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22911922


Then a lot of people are smoking something. There is just no way in the world that the PS4 will come out at $400. The deluxe PS3 was $600 at launch and still sold for a loss over the next few years. The rumored specs of the PS4 puts it at 8-10 times more powerful than that one (along with a high tech controller scheme of some sort), and there is the obvious desire by Sony to sell as close to cost as possible to minimize the per-unit-sold revenue loss this time around.


Putting aside all of the rumors of a subsidized option for a moment, we'll be lucky to see a $450 PS4 on the shelves at launch. My guess is that $500 will be the initial price. No way it will be $400.
I am sure they don't want to take a huge loss either, but they were killed by coming out with a really high entry price. I just don't see them doing that again.
 
#968 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamouflage  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22912120


So what's everybody's magic number to day one purchase this thing? I've got a ridiculous backlog of games to complete and told myself I wouldn't be getting a next gen system until Summer/Fall 2014 at the earliest but we all know about the temptation of the shiny new hotness. If it's $400 I'm definitely buying day one, $450 I'd have to sleep on it and above that I'm just going to wait.

I wouldn't even blink at $600.
 
#969 ·
I think a lot of what contributed to the high cost of the original PS3 was due to Blu-ray being new, separate components for backwards compatibility, and the complex Cell processor. All just wild guesses that I pulled out of a magic hat.
 
#970 ·
^^^ I agree, but the cost of manufacturing it was way more than the $600 they charged for the deluxe unit. If they can get costs down to, say, $550 for the PS4 and sell it for $500, they will have improved over the PS3 launch financially, and still have an attractive price point for early adopters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22912223


I am sure they don't want to take a huge loss either, but they were killed by coming out with a really high entry price. I just don't see them doing that again.
$600 in 2006 vs. $400 in 2013. That is a huge reduction you are asking for.
 
#971 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22912090


Keep in mind Joe that rendered != playable. Games can throw a lot out / render a lot more when they control the FOV and do cinematic. Fidelity goes down when you have to all freelook and gameplay in realtime.
I realize that, but the demo was in real time. Of course adding game play elements reduces resources, but visual pop is the main eater of those resources. A.I. and such don't need the other 2 gigs of RAM remaining. So with an unoptimized real time demo like in the Agni video from SquareEnix being possible before the PS4 specs were even finalized, you can expect awesome results in games made directly on the console as the machine (and development tools) matures - especially 1st party games. RAM won't be a bottleneck.


Look at it this way... check out what the "lowly" 0.5 GB of (split) RAM allows the PS3 to do today:










So God of War: Ascension's amazing visuals are being done on a system with 256MB XDR Main RAM and 256MB GDDR3 Video RAM. The video RAM bandwidth transports the data at 25 GB/s. The PS4 rumors say its memory is unified this time unlike the PS3 split, and the 4 GB of RAM it has moves data at 176 GB/s. So you are looking at 8x the amount of PS3 RAM on the new console that is unified and moves data 7x as fast!


That is a HUGE upgrade over a current gen system that is still producing top tier graphics like the pics above reveal; imagine what Santa Monica Studios and the like can do on the PS4 early on and beyond. If 0.5 GB of slow RAM didn't hold them back, then 4.0 GB of turbo RAM certainly won't.
 
#972 ·
Yup, a unified, set in stone architecture is pretty sweet! Every nook and cranny can be utilized, knowing hardware will never change, and the implementation will always work!


I just wish 3rd party Dev's still had the time and resources to optimize to each consoles strengths. Unfortunately, I think those days are long past us outside of Sony sponsored IP's and 1st party titles.
 
#973 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22912604


Yup, a unified, set in stone architecture is pretty sweet! Every nook and cranny can be utilized, knowing hardware will never change, and the implementation will always work!


I just wish 3rd party Dev's still had the time and resources to optimize to each consoles strengths. Unfortunately, I think those days are long past us outside of Sony sponsored IP's and 1st party titles.

If they really are both using basically the same

CPU and GPU architecture....they basically will be, for both at the same time.
 
#975 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1367918/playstation-4-news-rumors-grand-unveiling-on-february-20-2013/960#post_22912281


I wouldn't even blink at $600.

No way on God's green Earth that Kaz Harai would utter these words again:



599 US DOLLARS!!!!





They just won't go there. It's going to be $499.99. You can bank on it.
 
#976 ·
There's absolutely no way in the world any console company can afford to sell a new console for more than $400--considering the state of the industry and of the economy at large. If they do it, they're dooming themselves before they've even started.


If it's really going to be that expensive, they will have to do something to avoid sticker shock (subscription contracts, etc.).
 
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