PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1994 Old 01-07-2012, 04:04 PM
 
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About right, late 2014 at the earliest, 2015 more likely...

I'd love to find an announcement that Sony and MS decided to work on a unified console architecture. That sure would throw the fanboys for a loop.
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post #92 of 1994 Old 01-07-2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

About right, late 2014 at the earliest, 2015 more likely...

I'd love to find an announcement that Sony and MS decided to work on a unified console architecture. That sure would throw the fanboys for a loop.

that would be the best gaming news ever. no more exclusives, no more which version is better, no more having a different console than someone you work with. i would love a unified console. but alas, it's a dream that will never happen.

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post #93 of 1994 Old 01-07-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Don't see that trend stopping anytime soon.

but it needs to. most of the multiplayer modes that are added to single player games are just terrible. i was glad when i heard that prototype 2 wouldn't have multiplayer. glad that arkham city didn't have it. assassin's creed has it, but i never even tried it because, to me, that's not what those games are about. if companies want to give more bang for the buck, i'd rather see more side quests, more collectibles (like the pages in ac revelations that let you unlock the secret temple), more unlocks (alternate costumes, alternate endings, etc.) than some tacked on multiplayer that everyone will forget about a month after the game comes out.

on the flip side, i'd like to see multiplayer focused games such as battlefield drop the single player altogether. why waste that development time and resources on something that almost no one bought the game for anyway?

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post #94 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

Why does have Sony always fall back on sales of the Ps2. Yes it did well...get over it. But your Ps3 didn't do so wel so realize that and fix it this time around. Companies that rely on their past succcess stories to justify their poor decisions in the present often fall on their face.

I suspect late 2012 -early 2013 for a new xbox. Which is already too far away in my mind. The consoles look dated now, and have for some time. Time to move on. The smart thing to do is to just add more power to the existing platforms instead of a entirely different programming language that developers will have to relearn all over again. Would also solve the backwards compatibility issues.

Wish list for ps3?
1. Better reliabilty. This gen was horrendous, and un-acceptable. Yes Xbox AND PS3. Quiet and cool running consoles are a must.
2. For the love of god get rid of the pos controller.Till this day I will buy the xbox versions of multiplatform games due to hating the ps3 controller so much.
3. Faster BD drive, with better lasers, maybe install to HD option....which I've wanted since day one on the Ps3.
4. Better multimedia support. mkc etc.
5. I don't care about cloud gaming, I don't ever want a media'less console
6. Sensible amount of video ram this time around.
7. True 1080p with at least 4xAA and 16AF across the board. That's 1920 x 1080 and not the scaling nonsense that they do now. otherwise, don't bother. When you advertise "HD" or "1080P" it @#$@ better be this time around.

And, better games. This gen was flooded with too many Multiplayer repetitive nonsense. Stop letting multiplayer games ruin single player campaigns.

Oh jebuz no! The Playstation controller is PERFECTION! I hope they never change the basic design.

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post #95 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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Ditto. I've always found the PS3 controller to be the best, with the SNES being the last good idea.

There are always 3d manufactures options that make xbox like controllers for use with the PS3 and vice versa. Nothing is keeping you from getting them...
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post #96 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 01:17 PM
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I guess my old MotorStorm bundle PS3 didn't get the message that it's supposed to not be reliable since it's running as good as brand new. For sure it wouldn't be funny if it stops working today all of a sudden after I wrote that.
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post #97 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 02:43 PM
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I wonder if the release time frame has anything to do with trying to secure content, trying to beat microsoft to the home media center concept.

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post #98 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 05:03 PM
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When did they announce the ps3? Was it 2004? You remember the one with the boomerang and dual 1080p hdmi ports? An announcement now wouldnt be too far off from a 2014 release...

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post #99 of 1994 Old 01-08-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

When did they announce the ps3? Was it 2004? You remember the one with the boomerang and dual 1080p hdmi ports? An announcement now wouldnt be too far off from a 2014 release...

I found May 16, 2005, with a release date of Nov 2006. So if it is announced this year it would be plausible to see it sometime in 2013.
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post #100 of 1994 Old 01-09-2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Oh jebuz no! The Playstation controller is PERFECTION! I hope they never change the basic design.

I agree, especially after using basically the same controller for about 15 years (can't really imagine how many hours), nothing else feels right.

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post #101 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 11:32 AM
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Something struck me as I've been reading rumors around the net on the next PlayStation.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the number 4 is considered a very bad thing in Japan. It's such an unlucky number that the chance of the next PlayStation being named "4", at least in Japan, is virtually zero. Will Sony come up with an acceptable name for use everywhere? Will it be "PS4" everywhere except Japan, where it will be the "PlayStation __________"? It will be interesting to see what they do and how they market the new machine.

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post #102 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Something struck me as I've been reading rumors around the net on the next PlayStation.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the number 4 is considered a very bad thing in Japan. It's such an unlucky number that the chance of the next PlayStation being named "4", at least in Japan, is virtually zero. Will Sony come up with an acceptable name for use everywhere? Will it be "PS4" everywhere except Japan, where it will be the "PlayStation __________"? It will be interesting to see what they do and how they market the new machine.

Yes. I and others have pointed this out before. It isn't just in Japan where the number 4 is bad luck; it's throughout much of East Asia. It's why you won't often see three-fingered cartoon characters there (three fingers plus one thumb equals four). Character exports to Japan are often edited to have four fingers (four plus one thumb equals five). It's not like the number 13 in the West. It's much worse and more pervasive--probably because four is a more common number than thirteen.

It's really just a matter of convenience that everyone keeps referring to it as "PS4." It won't/can't have that name unless Sony decides to use different names in different regions. But that would be an even bigger business mistake than using the name "PS4." So it'll have some other name along the lines of "Vita" or something else more or less pronounceable and recognizable across cultures.

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post #103 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Something struck me as I've been reading rumors around the net on the next PlayStation.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the number 4 is considered a very bad thing in Japan. It's such an unlucky number that the chance of the next PlayStation being named "4", at least in Japan, is virtually zero. Will Sony come up with an acceptable name for use everywhere? Will it be "PS4" everywhere except Japan, where it will be the "PlayStation __________"? It will be interesting to see what they do and how they market the new machine.

Good point. Panasonic just replaced their VT30 line of plasma televisions with the VT50 line for this same reason.
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post #104 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Yes. I and others have pointed this out before. It isn't just in Japan where the number 4 is bad luck; it's throughout much of East Asia. It's why you won't often see three-fingered cartoon characters there (three fingers plus one thumb equals four). Character exports to Japan are often edited to have four fingers (four plus one thumb equals five). It's not like the number 13 in the West. It's much worse and more pervasive--probably because four is a more common number than thirteen.

It's really just a matter of convenience that everyone keeps referring to it as "PS4." It won't/can't have that name unless Sony decides to use different names in different regions. But that would be an even bigger business mistake than using the name "PS4." So it'll have some other name along the lines of "Vita" or something else more or less pronounceable and recognizable across cultures.

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Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post

Good point. Panasonic just replaced their VT30 line of plasma televisions with the VT50 line for this same reason.

Thanks for the confirmation. If they follow their own trend it will be a real word, not just something made up that sounds good. Or maybe they use a real word with 1337 spelling- like RAZR- though odds are against it. I agree that whatever it is it will be the same worldwide, a kind of re-branding since the name convention will be new.

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post #105 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Thanks for the confirmation. If they follow their own trend it will be a real word, not just something made up that sounds good. Or maybe they use a real word with 1337 spelling- like RAZR- though odds are against it. I agree that whatever it is it will be the same worldwide, a kind of re-branding since the name convention will be new.

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post #106 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 02:30 PM
 
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Maybe this time we'll really get a system that actually hovers and makes babies cry!

(seriously though, I wonder if Sony/SCEE is going to make the same marketing mistakes)
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post #107 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

(seriously though, I wonder if Sony/SCEE is going to make the same marketing mistakes)

Hate to keep beating this horse, but if the Vita is any sign, then yes, they will most certainly continue to make the same marketing mistakes they've been making for the past 5-7 years. There's no visionary leading the division at the moment.

After the early fumble of the PS3 and Kutaragi's forced retirement, Sony hasn't been able to marry its gaming hardware to any consistent vision. Sony's post-Kutaragi approach is to force its marketing groups to sell its hardware. What they should be doing is making hardware that already fits some clear, coherent direction that PR and marketing can latch onto. Instead, they keep making hardware that's sexy and capable (Move, PSP Go, PS Vita), but doesn't have any sense of real purpose or vision. Then the marketing and PR teams step in and have to figure out how to sell it.

One of the most significant technology lessons in the past ten years has been to bring a strong marketing vision into R&D. Apple paved the way. Nintendo followed suit. Microsoft is slowly figuring that out (with Kinect). But Sony is stubbornly refusing to change.

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post #108 of 1994 Old 01-10-2012, 09:16 PM
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Maybe the gaming industry needs some new blood in order to light a fire under sony & Microsoft

How about apple getting into the console wars
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post #109 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TatorTot View Post

How about apple getting into the console wars

If they're still happy to promote companies like Gameloft that keep churning out their cheap, bug ridden knock-offs as they do, then I think we're better off without them. At least Sony & MS have some quality control.
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post #110 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 08:32 AM
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Apple missed their chance when they let their deal go that they had with Bungie. If they had launched a console with Halo, the gaming world might be a lot different...
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post #111 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 08:42 AM
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Don't know about Japanese, but "four" in Mandarin sounds like "death." When I lived in Taiwan, I very rarely saw a fourth floor...

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post #112 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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NeoGAF's GoFreak has summarized an interesting interview posted with a Sony engineer who comments on features possibly for the PS4 and future PlayStations beyond it...
Quote:


Bits probably relevant to PS4

- 'the company is working on a system-on-chip (SoC) to underpin the product for "seven to 10 years".'
- 'He describes the architecture in broad terms: "You are talking about powerful CPU and GPU with extra DSP and programmable logic."' (Alternative quote in another article: ' “We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.”)
- 'Tsuruta-san picked out emerging ‘through silicon via’ designs. These stack chips with interconnects running vertically through them to reduce length, raise performance and reduce power consumption.'
- 'Tsuruta-san has noted the difficulties in achieving viable yields at 28nm, though he believes that these problems are now moving towards a resolution.'
- Tsuruta: "We are confident that we can now see a way and that we can use some of these advanced methods to create a new kind of system-on-chip. We think that there are the technologies today that can be taken to this project.”
- Tsuruta: "We understand that for this, we will need to offer a very strong SDK. We will retain our own OS for the main games and support that with a development environment that is viable. For online and other features, we are also thinking of a simpler approach to a Linux-type environment than on the PlayStation 3,"
- Seems to be a consciousness to try and accommodate potential future peripherals with high bandwidth needs
- '[Vita] features a nine-axis accelerometer (3 accelerometers, 3 gyroscopes and 3 magnetometers), but we could soon see a tenth added to sense pressure and increase environmental feedback still further.'

Bits probably relevant to post-PS4 (peripherals, PS5+ etc.)


- 'For the future of AR, Tsuruta’s presentation imagined a 3D version using lightweight glasses to create a hybrid gaming environment '
- 'the company wants to up the ante in haptics technology...this vision is one that incorporates sufficient touch sensitivity to, say, reproduce the full tactile sensation of stroking a cat'
- 'controllers that incorporate more motion-sensing accelerometers, and even vital signs sensors. There’s even been talk of systems that read players’ eye movements.'
- 'Sony’s target is to get latency for a typical playing experience to below 50ms for framerates of more than 300fps.'
- 'Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.'

Unless otherwise explicitly noted, the above quotes are from the article. Direct quotes from Tsuruta are hopefully obvious to pick out.


Update: More relevant comments from him in this post.

I posted a much shorter article about this a while ago that went down like a lead balloon, but with all this talk lately of PS4, and with a couple of far more detailed articles appearing on this in the last week, I think it's worth posting about again

The first article is just a summary one of a presentation given by SCE's Chief Tech Officer in December, the second taken from an interview with him.

WARNING: The stuff talked about here is rather explicitly not necessarily a feature list for PS4. He notes that some of this stuff is at least 5 years away from fruition. It's just his current take on where things may be heading longer term. Some of the more out there stuff could be relevant within PS4's lifetime in a peripheral sense, though...

Article: http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2011/dec/sony-gaming.cfm

Interview: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/201...-interview.cfm


Quote:


The senior technologist in Sony’s PlayStation division provided a tantalising view of the company’s gaming roadmap at the International Electron Devices Meeting in Washington DC this month.

Quote:


Not all of the road map will feature in the next PlayStation – this was explicitly not a specification – but it seems certain that some of it will, and other elements could be added later via peripherals. Some, though, are more long-term.

Quote:


In terms of semiconductors, Tsuruta-san picked out emerging ‘through silicon via’ designs. These stack chips with interconnects running vertically through them to reduce length, raise performance and reduce power consumption.

(Note: it's believed the next Power architecture will be a stacked design. This is also the architecture that has been speculated could incorporate aspects of Cell's design, or a next-gen SPU...). It's due in 2013.


Quote:


Looking further out, Tsuruta-san imagined a version of AR ultimately delivered via see-through 3D glasses, essentially a lightweight stereoscopic head-up display. This, however, will have to wait on the capability to deliver a massive amount of real-time graphics processing locally on a headset and to accurately position virtual truly-3D figures in a dynamically changing environment.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking about as soon as they showed that prototype at CES a couple of years ago.

On to the interview...actually part interview, part speculation piece by the author:

Quote:


Consumer technology giant Sony aims to give its next-generation gaming console an up to 10 year shelf-life, according to the CTO of its Computer Entertainment division, Maasaki Tsuruta, speaking exclusively to E&T. This is significantly longer than the market has seen historically, although the PlayStation 3 will be at least seven-years-old by the time its successor appears.

Quote:


The target longevity of the ‘PlayStation 4’ (it will not be called that) is a simple question of economics - primarily the inflationary economics of electronics system design, believes Tsuruta.


Quote:


The company is not really talking about its budget, but analysts Like Silicon Map believe that $1bn for the silicon alone would be a lower-end estimate.

Quote:


“You have to look at the current solutions and the current technologies and see how long you can extend those for the expected life of the product,” Tsuruta admits. “You always want ‘perfect’ technologies, but there are none. So, you look at what is available, and try to get as close as possible to that goal. Even then, some of the things that we want are still five years away [from development].”

Quote:


Consoles themselves are now only part of the game; highly sophisticated peripherals can deliver as much of a market advantage as the main platform.


Quote:


If the next PlayStation has to deliver stellar performance out-of-the-box, it also has to have enough processing headroom to carry on delighting the consumer for long after with new options. That means that Sony is, as Tsuruta’s earlier comment suggests, creating a new product with a view to peripherals that will be added post-launch – in some cases, quite some time after – and being more open today about what they are likely to be.

Quote:


At December 2011’s International Electron Devices Meeting, Tsuruta delivered a keynote on ‘Interactive Games’ that was as much shopping list as strategic vision. It set out a Sony gameplan that includes games which can respond to a player’s emotions, with controllers that incorporate more motion-sensing accelerometers, and even vital signs sensors. There’s even been talk of systems that read players’ eye movements.

Then the company wants to up the ante in haptics technology. Current controllers may vibrate or give some sense of resistance to the user’s movements, but this vision is one that incorporates sufficient touch sensitivity to, say, reproduce the full tactile sensation of stroking a cat.

Quote:


For the future of AR, Tsuruta’s presentation imagined a 3D version using lightweight glasses to create a hybrid gaming environment - no mean task. Locating 3D virtual objects within ‘flat’ environments is hard enough, particularly in real-time – only a handful of research projects, including SLAM (Simultaneous Localisation and Mapping) at Imperial College, London’s department of Computing, have even begun to tackle the same challenges for 3D rendered ones.

Quote:


“For the haptics and the very advanced graphics, we are talking about those five years at least,” Tsuruta says. The fact remains that means Sony’s ambitions and design plans today must already capture the next PlayStation’s peripherals market. That raises several challenges, he acknowledges, not the least of which concern where the digital muscle should go.


Quote:


These kinds of technology will require more advanced types of sensor technologies such as micro-electromechanical systems (MEMS, a technology branch that includes accelerometers). Not a straightforward design task, but an easier one to locate: they will go in the controller/headset. A bigger question surrounds the traditional ‘heavy-lifting’ processors.

“It took five years before we saw games that used the full power of Cell, so we are used to looking ahead and having capacity,” Tsuruta says. “We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.”


Quote:


To give a further, more metric-driven sense of that, Sony’s target is to get latency for a typical playing experience to below 50ms for framerates of more than 300fps. Now, 50ms is an absolute best performance level to start with – most displays actually increase it – for framerates of about 60fps ceiling. Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.


Quote:


“We think that the core games will continue to be the most important,” says Tsuruta. “We don’t want to limit what people do on the console and we will have to do more on the server side, account for some aspects of thin client computing. Many people like the ability to play simultaneously, and when the networks are available we would like to open the platform up to more complex content through them… But we will have to wait for a while because current networks have limitations in bandwidth. A typical PlayStation console game is 50GByte – transferring those kinds of size over most of today’s [public IP] networks won’t work. But more important is the experience. The [public IP] networks cannot yet deliver it.”

So while there will be some features that aim to make the cloud-based gaming experience more immersive – “and, this is key, more secure”, Tsuruta adds – the focus remains local.


Quote:


Given all these factors, if there is a feeling that Sony is ‘late’ in launching a fourth generation PlayStation, these ambitions suggest it is with good reason. Although Tsuruta (obviously) will not disclose the detailed specification, it now seems reasonably obvious that Sony is developing not so much an immersive games console as something that could evolve into a fully-realised virtual reality machine, rather than simply paving the way for one. For sure, there is a lot on that IEDM shopping list that needs to be refined, but most of it already exists in some form, some quite well developed although some is nascent.

Article: http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2011/dec/sony-gaming.cfm

Interview: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/201...-interview.cfm

I feel like the spirit of Kutaragi is alive and well at SCE :P

And this could be the closest you'll get to Sony talking about 'PS4' for a while...


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post #113 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 10:09 AM
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All I see is faster, more 3D-er, and "hey, let's make AR the next big thing!"

Hardware doesn't matter much these days. The real meat is in software and network engineering. Consoles should be designed around delivering content, not the other way around. Hopefully Sony has learned that lesson. Sony's motto has always been "If you build it, they will come," assuming that third parties will build software to suit the peculiarities of their hardware. That failed with PSP, Move, and (to a lesser degree) the PS3.

Supposedly, the big initiative with Vita was consulting third parties on what they'd like to see in the hardware. I'm hoping that pays off. If that does, then we'll know they'll do similarly for the next PS console.

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post #114 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yet another one of your derisive rants. He's not attempting to detail the PS4 so we have no idea what the machine's main focus is; he's just discussing the direction for some of the tech that's coming in the future, including stuff that might make it in and stuff not related to the PlayStation at all.

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post #115 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 11:01 AM
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I don't think Move has failed, either. There have been some really crappy titles, but the hardware itself is just fine. On the other hand, there have been some good titles, too.
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post #116 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 11:11 AM
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Looks like the Sony engineers are looking to have a bleeding edge processor in the next machine, and the extra RAM and other resources needed to keep expanding and improving over its life. System on a chip sounds like less components, so the box will probably be small.

I like the way he acknowledges the need for an improved SDK and simpler approach to online. Maybe a small indication that they're listening to the developers this time? Sony owns something like 14 software studios so there better be some serious input from those folks, or there should be anyway.

There is a lot of Pie-in-the-Sky talk like: 4k-8k resolution, fully tactile haptic interfaces, frame rates of 300fps. These guys do get paid to push the envelope so keep on working fellas! I will take the sub 50ms response times for all the peripherals though

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post #117 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 11:21 AM
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It would have been nice for the PS3 to have upgradeable RAM, maybe a couple of SODIMM slots. It seems feasible that people who purchase a lot of $60 games would not mind spending a few bucks to upgrade the RAM to 2gb, 4gb, or more, and have games require it, in exchange for an enriched experience. I've seen lots of complaints in regards to RAM being a limiting factor for creating new games, it may have been true RAM was expensive when the PS3 was first released, but if there had just been a couple of slots, it could have been easy and cheap to upgrade RAM now that a few years have gone by.
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post #118 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayoldschool View Post

Apple missed their chance when they let their deal go that they had with Bungie. If they had launched a console with Halo, the gaming world might be a lot different...

How about letting apple design the ps4

The ps3 is ugly
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post #119 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 12:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

It would have been nice for the PS3 to have upgradeable RAM, maybe a couple of SODIMM slots. It seems feasible that people who purchase a lot of $60 games would not mind spending a few bucks to upgrade the RAM to 2gb, 4gb, or more, and have games require it, in exchange for an enriched experience. I've seen lots of complaints in regards to RAM being a limiting factor for creating new games, it may have been true RAM was expensive when the PS3 was first released, but if there had just been a couple of slots, it could have been easy and cheap to upgrade RAM now that a few years have gone by.

Then you start to get away from the benefits of a console over a PC. People buy consoles because it is plug in and play. Start adding in too many preferials and too many upgrade options and difference between sku's and you got yourself a problem.

Honestly, the biggest problem with the PS3 is they allowed for no room to grow the OS dependent of the games. Sometimes if feels like the XMB wants to just crash when you try pulling it up when ingame.

I agree, Sony really, really needs to get their software ducks in a line next gen. They've always put out good hardware, but are seriously struggling with the software side of things. Struggling with HT synergy and capabilities, social media and web 2.0 integration.

We should have voice chat. We should have video chat. We should have a web browser that isn't horrible. There should be standardized clan, leader board, and MP systems for developers to go to.

Lots and lots of areas where software can really change the game.

Unfortunately, I don't see Sony going there anytime soon. Their engineers build really cool technology that their software side has no idea how to use and their internal marketing find hard to market to the real world.

If they weren't so smart about their first party studios and the hand off approach to their IP's, I'd be long gone. Only thing keeping me with them are their exclusives, which really isn't "Sony".
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post #120 of 1994 Old 01-11-2012, 01:27 PM
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Adding memory would not alter the console any more than adding a larger hard drive, which I have done to every PS3 I have owned. It isn't the same for having to program for different video cards and such, simply look at the memory available and be done with it. Microsoft is already in a worse situation having XBOX systems with and without hard drives for game installs.

Quote:


We should have voice chat. We should have video chat. We should have a web browser that isn't horrible.

Wasn't there some comment about these not being available due to RAM constraints? Wouldn't you rather spend $20 to upgrade to 4GB RAM to enable some of these functions rather than wish for a new $600 console?
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