PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdurg View Post

I used to think the same thing, but after the presentation tonight, I'm not so certain. They focused big time on the "instant" ability of the system to power on and load up games, and with an optical drive, that's not possible. Discs always have to be booted up and they are slower than games you have downloaded to your hard drive. Removal of it would also allow Sony to take maybe 50 or 60 bucks off of the final price of the system, as well as ensuring that all game sales/transactions are done directly through them.

While I would assume that they will include a blu-ray drive in the system, the information that has come out (in addition to the information that did not come out), just makes that glowing ember of a possibility glow a little bit more. I hope Sony quickly pours water on that. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

The game state will be saved to RAM. Has nothing to do with the disc. If it needs to spin up, itll only take a second or two. Every PS4 will have a HD, games can install from disc to that drive if need be to speed loads, just like the PS3. Installing from a disc is the same as downloading - if they can get the game running without the full download, they can get it running with a partial install.

Dont worry, there will be a drive, and it'll be an identical experience to the download. It seemed to me like one of those things thats so plainly obvious they dont even need to mention it, like the dpad on the controller.

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post #1712 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:03 PM
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Now that you say that, they didn't speak about the PS4's hard drive interface speed. If they did, I missed it when my video wasn't working well. Would be nice if swapping in an SSD would have a major benefit.
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post #1713 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:03 PM
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A console reveal without revealing the actual console? Only Sony.
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post #1714 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:05 PM
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WatchDogs confirmed for WiiU as well.
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post #1715 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rondoman View Post

A console reveal without revealing the actual console? Only Sony.

Didn't they do the same thing with the PS3? They revealed a few demos and specs then around E3 they revealed the actual console, correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #1716 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I keep the games and controllers in dedicated baskets (for lack of a better term) on shelving units. They don't stay out. It is a hassle, but it works. Think about this, the Atari had a lot of controllers, and you have no choice but to use the proper tool for the job. Kaboom requires paddle controllers, Night Driver requires driving controllers, there are some specific controllers for some games, then there is the joysticks, I use Epyx 500 XJs - wonderful controllers. Then there are the 7800 games which use controllers that require two triggers. And if we hook up the 5200 for a game of Centipede, I have to pull out the tracball controller... you get the idea.

But, here's the thing. I've seen many a "flashback" system or game for multiple consoles or as a stand alone unit. You can't recreate most of these games without the proper controller. There's no way you get the correct effect of Kaboom with a joystick. So, I keep my old systems so I can play them as intended.

Maybe not, but you can a DS4 or DS3 should be perfectly capable of controlling any PS1, PS2, or PS3 game and that's what I'm referring to.

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post #1717 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jdurg View Post

IF they include an optical drive. No optical drive, and they don't have to include the hardware needed for reading discs and playing discs, etc. With all of the information they were going nuts over regarding the digital downloading of games, background downloading, etc., plus the complete lack of showing any sense of whether the system will run discs or not, and not showing the console itself, it makes me think that Sony is going to be able to go ahead and avoid the costs of including an optical drive thereby keeping the overall system cost low.

It just seems like that will be the next main announcement based upon the presentation this evening.

Also, with regards to the ability to instantly play a game while the rest of the game downloads in the background, that is only great if you have an awesome internet connection. Otherwise, I can see moving far along in a game while the Sony servers hiccup, or your local connection gets backed up, and as a result your game suddenly stops. That would be a huge killer for me. I see the PS4 being VERY expensive in terms of bandwidth/internet costs. frown.gif

Not gonna happen, and not just because Sony has a vested interest in BD.

Data caps
ISP infrastructure
worldwide internet access

The infrastructure is not there for a DD only console machine. They'd be giving up a huge amount of sales, doing something that isn't feasible yet. Sonys made huge strides into South American markets and that would kill their gains there quickly.
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post #1718 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Now that you say that, they didn't speak about the PS4's hard drive interface speed. If they did, I missed it when my video wasn't working well. Would be nice if swapping in an SSD would have a major benefit.

Nah, they didnt mention that. Obviously it'll be some form of SATA, but I dont think the interface speed is really the bottleneck. Im not exactly sure why most PS3 games didnt see much of a benefit from an SSD. My theory is that the bottleneck is the CPU, the data streamed off the disc/HDD faster than the CPU could decompress and process it into a functional game. I have a hybrid drive in my PS3 and while there are a few games that see a minor boost, it really isnt a huge difference at all. Maybe with the better CPU and the dedicated decompression chips raw transfer speed will resume being the bottleneck. But with the way you can just turn the system on and off at will, load times will matter less than ever. (I still hate them though)

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post #1719 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdurg View Post

I was thinking the same thing too, but didn't you notice how they heavily talked about streaming movies through the services on the PS4 and all the talk about going instant?

Maybe I am just being paranoid here and it is more likely that they are going to have a Blu-Ray drive, but instead of me being absolutely certain of it, now I'm only about 70% sure as there was enough said/not-said to make me wonder...

I'm in the same boat. Until today, I thought they would keep an optical drive for physical media.. but considering how much they stressed downloading movies and games, I'm not so certain anymore.

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post #1720 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The game state will be saved to RAM. Has nothing to do with the disc. If it needs to spin up, itll only take a second or two. Every PS4 will have a HD, games can install from disc to that drive if need be to speed loads, just like the PS3. Installing from a disc is the same as downloading - if they can get the game running without the full download, they can get it running with a partial install.

Dont worry, there will be a drive, and it'll be an identical experience to the download. It seemed to me like one of those things thats so plainly obvious they dont even need to mention it, like the dpad on the controller.

I know, I know. I guess I just get myself used to the worst so that when anything better happens I will always be happy. biggrin.gif

Overall, I think the presentation was very well done. I liked how they kind of poked a little fun at themselves without directly doing that. This was in regards to their talk about the ease of development for the x86 architecture and the inclusion of an ungodly greater amount of RAM of the highest quality possible than in the PS3. So a lot of the "hate" on the PS3 was how it was shunned by developers due to the difficulty in developing for it. With this presentation, they immediately nixed that talk by having the developers gleaming about how simple it was to program for and how they can't wait to get games out with it.

They also didn't give out every last detail of the system so that MS will now have to just come out and talk about what they have to offer, then Sony can quickly respond with other information that they have ready to announce.
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post #1721 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:16 PM
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From their tech sheet:

Main Processor Single-chip custom processor
CPU : x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU : 1.84 TFLOPS, AMD next-generation Radeon™ based
graphics engine
Memory GDDR5 8GB
Hard Disk Drive Built-in
Optical Drive
(read only)
BD 6xCAV
DVD 8xCAV
I/O
Super-Speed USB (USB 3.0) 、AUX
Communication Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T)
IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth® 2.1 (EDR)
AV output HDMI
Analog-AV out
Digital Output (optical)

Blu ray drive, done.
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post #1722 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

Maybe not, but you can a DS4 or DS3 should be perfectly capable of controlling any PS1, PS2, or PS3 game and that's what I'm referring to.

While on the PS4 the DS4 will be fully functional in controlling the games (as they did state that in the future they'll be streaming PS1-3 games via the PS Cloud), it's not certain whether or not the physical PS1-3 consoles will interface with the DS4.
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post #1723 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Replay links of the show have been added to the first post.

Los Angeles Lakers - 16 NBA Championships!

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post #1724 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:19 PM
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It does say HDD built in, so Im a little concerned it wont be removable and user replaceable.

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post #1725 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully they meant "included", not built-in.

Los Angeles Lakers - 16 NBA Championships!

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post #1726 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:27 PM
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Not really clear if the dual camera is included in every box, def want to know that. The AUX port is dedicated to it, and its nice slim design that clips to the top of a thin display and can tilt down. Some nice clear shots of the controller here too:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4011382/playstation-4-dualshock-4-controller-ps-eye-camera

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post #1727 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

From their tech sheet:

Main Processor Single-chip custom processor
CPU : x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU : 1.84 TFLOPS, AMD next-generation Radeon™ based
graphics engine
Memory GDDR5 8GB
Hard Disk Drive Built-in
Optical Drive
(read only)
BD 6xCAV
DVD 8xCAV
I/O
Super-Speed USB (USB 3.0) 、AUX
Communication Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T)
IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth® 2.1 (EDR)
AV output HDMI
Analog-AV out
Digital Output (optical)

Blu ray drive, done.

Told ya.

Looks like Sony heard you BD, they're created a monster it seems. Now, price! stat!
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post #1728 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Hopefully they meant "included", not built-in.

Could be a poorly worded way of saying "internal" and not "something connected outside of the machine".
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post #1729 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:36 PM
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Although, with USB 3.0 (5Gbit/sec), its more like a purely aesthetic choice, to just have the drive internal. I'm sure it wont be hard to find a USB 3 enclosure for a SSD.

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post #1730 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Not really clear if the dual camera is included in every box, def want to know that. The AUX port is dedicated to it, and its nice slim design that clips to the top of a thin display and can tilt down. Some nice clear shots of the controller here too:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4011382/playstation-4-dualshock-4-controller-ps-eye-camera

Triggers look better.
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post #1731 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Not really clear if the dual camera is included in every box, def want to know that. The AUX port is dedicated to it, and its nice slim design that clips to the top of a thin display and can tilt down. Some nice clear shots of the controller here too:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4011382/playstation-4-dualshock-4-controller-ps-eye-camera

Beautiful!
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post #1732 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:29 PM
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I was in TurboTax hell all evening, just came out of it and downed a Guiness. From what I can gather before I head to bed and pass out, it looks like Sony hit one out of the park. Is that the general AVS consensus?

Diablo 3 on the PS4 .... hey man I called it a bunch of pages ago. smile.gif
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post #1733 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

I was in TurboTax hell all evening, just came out of it and downed a Guiness. From what I can gather before I head to bed and pass out, it looks like Sony hit one out of the park. Is that the general AVS consensus?

Diablo 3 on the PS4 .... hey man I called it a bunch of pages ago. smile.gif

Seems like all of the griping is about what wasnt revealed, rather than what was. Those answers will come eventually, clearly off to a good start though.

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post #1734 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:35 PM
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Excellent. I'll catch up more tomorrow, but looks like things are going about as good as any of us could have hoped w/ a early reveal. I'm especially intrigued by the Blizzard relationship.
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post #1735 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

Excellent. I'll catch up more tomorrow, but looks like things are going about as good as any of us could have hoped w/ a early reveal. I'm especially intrigued by the Blizzard relationship.

Based on their comments to gametrailers after the show, D3 is probably coming to the 360 and nextbox as well. He got really cagey when asked if it was exclusive. If it was, they'd have flat out said it.

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post #1736 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:46 PM
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Seems like all of the griping is about what wasnt revealed, rather than what was. Those answers will come eventually, clearly off to a good start though.

That about sums it up.

I was disapointed that Square used the Agni demo yet again instead of giving us something new. Telling us to wait until E3 was kinda trollish after using Agni yet again.

Oh, One thing to remember, these real time demos were using unfinished dev kits. They will look and run even better by launch.

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post #1737 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:50 PM
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post #1738 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:51 PM
 
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Quite frankly I was underwhelmed with everything the Japanese Dev's had to show. Capcom even showed how little they understand social media with a email joke to needing help in-game at the end of their tech-demo.

Then again the only thing out of Japan I've liked this Gen was from Kojima Productions and FROMSoftware.
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post #1739 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 07:54 PM
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Giantbomb has some nice video up.


I'm anxious for Japanese devs to do some big stuff. Dragons Dogma is a sign Capcom is going in the right direction.
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post #1740 of 1994 Old 02-20-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Not really clear if the dual camera is included in every box, def want to know that. The AUX port is dedicated to it, and its nice slim design that clips to the top of a thin display and can tilt down. Some nice clear shots of the controller here too:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4011382/playstation-4-dualshock-4-controller-ps-eye-camera

Probably have to get the deluxe model for that. Which I'm getting just because this time around. I probably won't even use it that much since I'm not into the whole Move thing at all, but at least I'll have it just in case.

Oh, and the n type WiFi means no more hard wiring. That'll be nice.

500 gigs FTW.
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