The Pinball Arcade - the ultimate pinball simulator! (PSV / PS3 / PS4) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 11:06 AM
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Ok, thanks. I was hoping for audio fix and 3d for the PS4 version sometime soon. I guess I'll fire up the PS3 version then.

I can't believe the audio hasn't been patched after all this time! Then again, this is FarSight.


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post #362 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Ok, thanks. I was hoping for audio fix and 3d for the PS4 version sometime soon. I guess I'll fire up the PS3 version then.

I can't believe the audio hasn't been patched after all this time! Then again, this is FarSight.

I wouldn't count on 3D for the PS4 version any time soon. When asked directly FarSight only said that it wouldn't be right away.

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post #363 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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Oh, I thought the 3D was out for the PS4 version because it was patched two days ago. frown.gif
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post #364 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NoThru22 View Post

Oh, I thought the 3D was out for the PS4 version because it was patched two days ago. frown.gif

No one knows what that TPA update was for. Maybe for the resources for the next two tables?

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post #365 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

In my last post right before your comment, I said:
So your response doesn't make much sense. The main thing I was trying to get him to understand is that Sony can truthfully say there will be no 4K games while also later having the option to say we will see some 3D 1080P @60fps. That means there is a difference, so again your comment is confusing.

However, to go on to say that they have no relation to each other is just wrong. You can not have 3D 1080P @60 fps displayed by a device that is unable to produce 4K (obviously all the other hardware components need to be in place too). Once 4K is available, only then can it be possible to hit that ideal 1080P 3D spec and not before. Maybe it comes down to one person saying tomayto and the other saying tomahto, but the answer can easily be explained I think (a lot of basic stuff coming up for clarity):

~~~

In the end we are all talking about pixels on a display. Focusing on that point should make things clearer. Almost every gamer is familiar with the resolutions 480P, 720P and 1080P. Many also know that they are shorthand for the number of vertical pixels produced on your progressive screen (i.e. 1080P = 1,920 horizontal pixels and 1,080 vertical pixels, or 2,073,600 total). For whatever odd reason, the tech powers that be decided to use the number of horizontal pixels in 4K resolution to be the shorthand notation: 4K = 3,840 horizontal pixels x 2,160 vertical pixels, or 8,294,400 total).

What is important to note for this discussion is the fact that 4K resolution has exactly twice the number of horizontal and twice the number of vertical pixels as 1080P. It also means that 4K has four times the total number of pixels as 1080P. Now let's see why this is important.

To achieve 1080P in 3D @60fps (with a 4K set and the new HDMI standard in place or it is impossible), the console has to send sixty 1080P rendered frames each second to the left eye and also, separately, sixty different frames to the right eye. That means that each 1/60th of a second, the console is pumping out two 1080P images (one for each eye) to maintain that fluidity in 3D at this resolution.

How many pixels is that per second? 2 (one frame per eye) x 2,073,600 (pixels in a 1080P image) x 60 (frames in a second) = 248,832,000 (or, ~249 million pixels per second)

To achieve the minimum, most basic 4K image in 2D at 30fps (again with a 4K set and the new HDMI standard in place or it is impossible), the console has to send thirty 2160P (i.e., 4K) rendered frames each second to both eyes simultaneously. That means that each 1/30th of a second, the console is pumping out only one 4K image for this resolution.

How many pixels is that per second? 1 (a single frame) x 8,294,400 (pixels in a 2160P -or 4K- image) x 30 (frames in a second) = 248,832,000 (or, ~249 million pixels per second)

~~~

So you see? Like I said at the beginning, it all comes down to the number of pixels being splashed on the screen. By me saying you need 4K tech in a machine or 1080P in 3D @60fps is impossible, I am basically saying you need to be able to generate a high enough pixel count to achieve that goal, and that pixel count is the exact same minimum number of pixels generated by the most basic 4K image. If your machine cannot display a basic amount of 4K pixels, it can't do 1080P in 3D @60fps either.

That comparison is equal if you consider that 60fps and 30fps are equal. If you compare equal frames per second then 1080p in 3D requires half the pixels pushed than 4k does.

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post #366 of 377 Old 04-17-2014, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The calculations assume a minimum 30fps for 4K, which is equal in pixel output per second to 1080P 3D @60 fps. The point was, a 4K display (with the new HDMI standard for bandwidth) that can handle the minimum acceptable frame rate is needed for 1080P 3D @60fps.

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post #367 of 377 Old 04-18-2014, 07:00 AM
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I got a chance to play the free table. I really like it, I think I like it a little better than Zen Pinball, I just like Zen's tables better.
I will be picking up a few tables for this in the future.
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post #368 of 377 Old 04-18-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

The calculations assume a minimum 30fps for 4K, which is equal in pixel output per second to 1080P 3D @60 fps. The point was, a 4K display (with the new HDMI standard for bandwidth) that can handle the minimum acceptable frame rate is needed for 1080P 3D @60fps.

I understood your point but your math makes it seem like an unfair comparison at first glance. I'm glad that you got me thinking about this Joe because before your post I wasn't thinking about the limitations of the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4 and that, of course, is the all important limitation when it comes to 1080P 3D.
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I got a chance to play the free table. I really like it, I think I like it a little better than Zen Pinball, I just like Zen's tables better.
I will be picking up a few tables for this in the future.

I like to play Zen pinball from time to time but I don't think of it like it's pinball. It's more like a different kind of game. TPA is a virtual recreation of pinball machines that I play in real life and therefore the physics and presentation are rooted in the real world. Zen is a fantasy world where they can break the rules of our physical world at will and present animations that could never be in the real world.

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post #369 of 377 Old 04-18-2014, 08:45 AM
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I tried the 3D on the PS3 version of Pinball Arcade last night. Man, they really pop the table out of the screen! It took me a minute for my eyes to adjust. Zen2 seems to go for the table going into the screen. TPA 3D looks pretty good, gives the 3-dimensional feel of playing pinball.

Some of the menu text and buttons are one-eye only, which is really painful! eek.gif Also, I saw a score display that was one-eye - Elvira Party Monsters I think it was. Lastly, some of the score displays are visually on top of the table, but behind in 3D space, so they "cut a hole" in the table.

Overall, needs a fair bit of clean-up, but what they have so far is pretty impressive!


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post #370 of 377 Old 04-18-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I tried the 3D on the PS3 version of Pinball Arcade last night. Man, they really pop the table out of the screen! It took me a minute for my eyes to adjust. Zen2 seems to go for the table going into the screen. TPA 3D looks pretty good, gives the 3-dimensional feel of playing pinball.

Some of the menu text and buttons are one-eye only, which is really painful! eek.gif Also, I saw a score display that was one-eye - Elvira Party Monsters I think it was. Lastly, some of the score displays are visually on top of the table, but behind in 3D space, so they "cut a hole" in the table.

Overall, needs a fair bit of clean-up, but what they have so far is pretty impressive!

Hold triangle and adjust the depth with the right stick if you want to adjust it. I contacted FarSight about the non-table elements being messed up. Some are only in one eye, some are left-right reversed and some others break the rules of 3D by being visually in front of the table but with 3D set to further away than the table. FarSight responded that they have everything that I mentioned in their fix list. I hope they fix those things by the end of the year.

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post #371 of 377 Old 07-22-2014, 09:37 PM
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Not a lot of posts in this thread.

I've downloaded every table, and they've all been enjoyable.

But I'll tell you what, the Black Knight 2000 is one trippy board!
Its basically the same table as the Black Knight... but it now has an
Insane light show and the music is crazy too. Choirs singing to you!
I'm pretty sure I like that one.
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post #372 of 377 Old 07-23-2014, 08:18 AM
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I am getting a PS4. Any question on how to update the tables. I purchased Season 1 and Season 2 pack of the tables on the PS3 but when I check the store on the website all I can see is that I can buy Season 1 at a discount of $15 but Season 2 tables I have to buy individually.

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post #373 of 377 Old 07-23-2014, 02:29 PM
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If you have a Vita, you will want to keep buying the PS3+vita version.

But yes, the PS4 version is its own beast.

You like a table, you buy it twice. Once for PS3/vita, and once for Ps4.

I wish it was as easy to transfer as Zen 2.
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post #374 of 377 Old 07-23-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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The Season One upgrade discount is the best you can do for those tables.

Season 2 for the PS4 won't be released until a month after the XBone version due to money-hatting.

Season 3 is partially released (one table per pack from now on), and a season pass for it won't be offered until after all of the tables for it are out due to a stupid reaction to Apple's season pass restrictions on iPhone.
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post #375 of 377 Old 07-24-2014, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
The Season One upgrade discount is the best you can do for those tables.

Season 2 for the PS4 won't be released until a month after the XBone version due to money-hatting.

Season 3 is partially released (one table per pack from now on), and a season pass for it won't be offered until after all of the tables for it are out due to a stupid reaction to Apple's season pass restrictions on iPhone.
Thanks! Was wondering where S2 was.
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post #376 of 377 Old 07-24-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Another important development to share: the number one requested table of all-time has finally been cleared for a Kickstarter campaign:




My guess is a $250,000 goal. That'll be a spike compared to the successful Kickstarters of the Terminator 2, Twilight Zone and Star Trek: TNG tables ($59K, $55K and $45K respectively).

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post #377 of 377 Old 07-24-2014, 02:12 PM
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I hope Farsight releases further retail compilations of this for subsequent seasons. I love that season 1 is available on the PS4 as a retail product.
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